Dead Quiet horse suddenly SPOOKS & BOLTS at everything

[GallopingGrape]

UPDATE!! sEE LAST THREAD.

I'm moving this thread from Endurance to here.
This boarder's horse was broght to my farm 3 months ago. He was dead dead quiet. Could shoot a gun off and he wouldn't even flinch. Very curious, would walk straight up to a running tractor, bobcat, machinery, nothing phased him. Would rather sleep than anything.... over the last few weeks, he's become suddenly very spooky, nervous and generally a nervous wreck. He'll spoke and bolt, run you over and ask questions later. He will bolt at a car coming down the driveway??

I've noticed he is the last in the herd to see me coming. When I walk across the field, the goat always sees me before the horse does. He has cataracks and I know that impairs his vision, but could his vision decrease that rapidly over the last month to make such a dramatic effect on his personality?

Besides vision, is there anything else that would explain a dead broke child's horse to become a nervous, spooky, dangerous wreck?

[Simkie]

Have you read Auventura's post about her endurance horse that was super spooky due to raging gastric ulcers? Let me see if I can find it for you.

Ah-ha. Here it is: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=165606

Might be a good idea to scope him, or try gastrogard for a few weeks.

[ExJumper]

Hearing, maybe? But vision sounds like a pretty good bet.

[Calamber]

Yes about the vision question and spooking/nervous wreck. Some horses just cannot tolerate losing their vision and it can deteriorate that quickly. Can boarder have a vet to look at the eyes to see if there is a possibility that there is also increased pain from the cataracts?

[GallopingGrape]

Oh, the ulcers could be the answer. Stress from the move, his new pasture mates beating him up, he was also just put on bute daily about 5 weeks ago... all could definitely lead to ulcers. Yep, we had the eyes checked and I just started giving him eye drops, but the vet didn't think his vision had changed that dramatically from his last visit. (He knew the horse previously)

[GallopingGrape]

Wow, Gastroguard is $33 a tube... and you feed one tube per day??? Has anyone found a cheaper alternative?

[Simkie]

Wow, Gastroguard is $33 a tube... and you feed one tube per day??? Has anyone found a cheaper alternative?

There is nothing else proven to heal equine gastric ulcers.

You can try www.ponymeds.com (http://www.ponymeds.com) or compounded omeprazole, but it's a gamble if it will work or not. Compounded omeprazole did nothing for my horse.

If you can dose 3 times a day, Ranitadine will help. It won't heal the ulcers, but will reduce acid in the stomach.

There are also various OTC remedies, which sometimes help, but are not proven to heal (well, not proven to do anything, actually) but may make the horse more comfortable or help ulcers from returning after they've been treated.

[Calamber]

There are others but Gastroguard is the best and as far as I am concerned, the only way if they are severe which it sounds like this one is if the vet has looked at the eyes.

It also does help to give some alfalfa hay, soaked cubes can work if hay is not available, helps to buffer the the acid that the stomach produces in times of stress. This horses sounds like it does need at least a couple weeks of Gastroguard, I realize they normally recommend a month but that would give it a good start to heal. Also, stay away from sweet feeds, the sugar definitely aggravates the situation. And Bute daily!? ouch....

Also get the horse away from the bullies if possible.

BTW, hi Kim, how are the black kitties?

[piccolittle]

We do Gastrogard for about 3 weeks daily and have them scoped at the end of it, then use Cimetidine for maintenance, with a tube of Gastrogard every day of a show or long trailer ride. Yes, it's expensive, but it's worth it and if you buy it in bulk you can probably get some kind of discount...

[ExJumper]

Oh, the ulcers could be the answer. Stress from the move, his new pasture mates beating him up, he was also just put on bute daily about 5 weeks ago... all could definitely lead to ulcers. Yep, we had the eyes checked and I just started giving him eye drops, but the vet didn't think his vision had changed that dramatically from his last visit. (He knew the horse previously)

You didn't mention in the OP that his eyes had been checked. If his vision is fine, then ulcers could certainly be a factor.

Wow, Gastroguard is $33 a tube... and you feed one tube per day??? Has anyone found a cheaper alternative?

Nope. Thats the curse we owners of ulcery horses live with...

[BornToRide]

Would be my hunch too - some medical condition. Sounds like ulcers are a real possibility in this case. Also feeding chnages can account for that too. Any changes in the diet at about the time the spooking increased?

[GallopingGrape]

No change in diet... i kept it all the same from his previous home. Here's another crazy question... when I'm walking him on a lead, he is fine, when we walk down steep slopes, he'll turn, jump and bolt right out of my hands.... I tested this SEVERAL times today in the pasture. He'll walk anywhere relatively flat, but on that one slope, it freaks him out. Could the stomach acids be "sloshing" around on the slopes and aggravating an ulcer?

[Simkie]

Could the stomach acids be "sloshing" around on the slopes and aggravating an ulcer?

Yep, that could certainly be what's happening.

[dwblover]

If the horse has cateracts, than yes, his vision can deteriorate that quickly. Some horses can have total mental breakdowns when everything "starts going dark" so to speak. They usually seem to mellow out once the vision totally goes and they get used to it. I would have the vet re-check his eyes. Ulcers are always possible, so just give ulcergard for a week at a full tube dose and if you see a huge difference you'll know if ulcers are present or not, in my experience.

[GallopingGrape]

Is Ulcerguard and ProCMC the same?

[Simkie]

Is Ulcerguard and ProCMC the same?

NO. Not at all.

Ulcergard is the Merial product that is sold OTC and labeled for the prevention of gastric ulcers in equines. Each tube contains 2.28 g of omeprazole, and the label instructs that it should be given at the rate of 1/4 tube per day.

ProCMC is an OTC antacid.

The difference between Ulcergard and ProCMC is just like the difference between Prilosec and tums for people.

Gastrogard is the Merial product that is sold by RX and labeled for the treatment of gastric ulcers in equines. Each tube contains 2.28 g of omeprazole, and the label instructs that it should be given at the rate of one tube per day.

Gastrogard and Ulcergard are the exact same thing, with different labels, and one can be used interchangeably with the other, as long as you understand the different dosing (1/4 to prevent, 1 full tube to treat.)

[dbadaro]

my first thought was ulcers too

[Hopeful Hunter]

Vision, ulcers, other medical issue (Lyme disease? Pain?)

[pines4equines]

I did a test on my ulcery horse because I wasn't sure what his problem was and he was not as drastic as yours. I

[BornToRide]

I tested this SEVERAL times today in the pasture. He'll walk anywhere relatively flat, but on that one slope, it freaks him out. Could the stomach acids be "sloshing" around on the slopes and aggravating an ulcer?In this case I would suspect joint issues more than anything, The equine stomach is not that big and I would only expect sloshing around if they were really moving fast, like in a canter or galopp.

[pines4equines]

Sorry my cat stepped on my mouse.... and hit reply before I was done...

I did a test on my ulcery horse because I wasn't sure what his problem was. He was definitely not as drastic as yours but maybe you could try the same test, if he seems better, then get the vet.

I soaked alfalfa cubes to mush and gave him several pounds every night. (He has TMJ and can't eat them dry.) He also got 1 oz Pro CMC with am and pm feed for 1 month. I noticed a dramatic difference. I had to take him off the alfalfa as it was just making him too hot so he is on the Pro CMC now.

His symptoms were the spooking but definitely not as bad as yours. Just ever so slightly and really not him so that is why I did this test. He had come off a treatment with that Doxy stuff for Lyme and I hear that is can cause some ulcery situations.

I am watching my guy and have conveyed all the info to my vet via e-mail. If he reverts to any traumatic signs I will call the vet and do that gastro guard route but for now, this works for me.

In January when I really don't ride and if he's a little hot it won't matter, I'll put him back on the alfalfa but I'll do Lucerne or something as I can't soak alfalfa cubes here in January...Or maybe purchase actual bales for the evening feed.

[GallopingGrape]

Ok, he stands "camped under' but the vet could not find any obvious reasons for this. A sole bruise on his right front, but that's it. Chiropractor came out and again, could not find any reason for his being "camped under" stance. He's not obviously sore anywhere. He's gaited but doesn't want to gait, prefers to trot, will gait if really pushed to do so. He is barefoot and ridden in Easyboot Epics. This nervousness, bolting and spookiness all just started recently, he's been on my farm since Sept 1. New farm, same feed, new abusive pasture mates (i recently separated them and put him with a goat), soreness issues & navicular meant new bute daily, xrays shows light navicular, also has glacouma, cataracks. Poor guy is only 10 years old.... and he's a mess. But the sweetest thing on four hooves. He was calm and quiet when he arrived, now he's a mess. He' is much better with me than he is with his nervous, newbie owner.... but he is definitely a different horse than the old dopey guy that arrived here three months ago.

[GallopingGrape]

pines4Equines, thanks for the info. This is not my horse, it is my boarder's and I'm doing my best to help her. She doesn't want to spend another dime on this horse, but I can't see letting him suffer if he's in pain. I'm willing to do all i can... because she wont' call the vet any longer at this point. She's "spent her wad" on him and now its either get rid of him, or for me to find out best I can what is ailing the poor fella....

[GallopingGrape]

The vet did flex tests on both front coffin joints, and hocks. No soundness issues... he doesn't seem in pain on his feet, (hoof testers), joints, along his hips or back (chiro). Except for slight bruising on his front sole. His only issues (apparantly) are his eyesight, hearing (although never tested) and possible ulcers.... I can't think of anything else?

[BornToRide]

Sorry my cat stepped on my mouse.... and hit reply before I was done... :lol::lol::lol: Is the mouse OK?? :D

[abbydp]

I haven't read the responses yet, but I would investigate the vision until it is proven without a doubt. A friend's horse was thought for years to be a nut case. Went through several trainers, probably abused before my friend got her. She has had the same vets as long as she has had her, and nothing was ever noticed. On her last check, they found cysts in her eyes. They are not attached, so move into and out of her vision, so vision is obscured, then clear. I wish I could remember the technical terms. From what I understand they can be easily removed with laser surgery, not even a big price tag. Depending on how he moves, your guy could possibly see in certain situations and not so well in others. There is nothing in this mare's demeanor or actions that would in any way make you think she's blind.

[Percheron X]

soreness issues & navicular meant new bute daily

If he is getting bute every day for extended periods that could cause ulcers or worse. Bute is not meant to be given for long periods of time. I personally will almost never give bute for any more than three days.

[pines4equines]

BTR: Mouse is a-okay...

Galloping Grape: ProCMC is really the cheapest route. It's about $35 retail and the gallon lasts me a month for two horses served 1 oz twice a day to each horse, maybe even longer - not sure. Certainly this woman can cough that up and he'll be safer for all who have to handle him.

[GallopingGrape]

I picked up the ProCMC today and will start giving it this evening. So, if this brings this good ol' boy back to normal, I could safely assume that he has ulcers? Again, the owner won't keep putting money in him... this is on my own dime, I'm not trying to be cheap, just find the least expensive way to finding out his problems...... Thanks everyone... this list is so helpful!!

[Meandering Elf]

if he is negative to the soundness exam, why the bute?

You might want to consider a quality fly mask. Horses with eye issues often have secondary photo sensitivity. Cataracts can also alter the flow of the liquid in the eye (glaucoma like) which is very painful and sensitive to pressure and movement.

[GallopingGrape]

The vet did radiographs and saw navicular in both front - so he said to give the bute daily to help reduce inflamation or pain... but there was no pain with hoof testers and flex tests. I pull him off it... but now that we're talking about it... I have no idea why the bute if there was no obvious pain or lameness.

[Speedy Alice]

GG, what did the vet mean when he said that he "saw navicular" on the xrays? Changes on a navicular bone do not = navicular syndrome, nor is there any correlation as to whether or not a horse with changes on the navicular bone is sore or lame, so I'm wondering what me meant. And if there is no soreness and pain... agree, why in the world would he prescribe Bute?

You are a good soul to help this horse.

[ImJumpin]

A couple other things to consider:

-How different is his turn out routine? Is he getting turned out for less time? Did he have good buddies at the last place he could run and play with a lot?

-Same feed, I assume means same grain. What about other forage-- including hay and grass. Could be a vitamin B-1 issue-- can make them spooky. If the ulcer treatment doesn't pan out, I'd look into the vit. B.

[GallopingGrape]

Unfortunately, I was not there when the vet did the radiographs but his owner passed the info to me... as saying "he has navicular syndrome". Unfortunately that's all of the info that I got... and the bute didn't make sense to me since there was no obvious signs of lameness.... Oh, except for the fact that he stands very "camped under"..... but two different vets (one vet and one horse chiro that I called in) cannot find the cause for this?

As for his previous turnout, he was left in a field with other buddys, and not ridden for two years. He came to me FAT with terrible feet. The farrier is still working to get his feet back in good shape. He was on grass, and McCauly's M30 which I have not changed. He gets the M30, full turnout and grazing 24x7 and his new buddy is a goat. They go everywhere together and seem to be very happy. My other geldings are in the paddock next to them and this horse could care less about them. He never even looks over in their direction. The one gelding really beat him up alot.... I think he's very happy with his new goat friend. They even sleep together. He "spoons" the goat... its hysterical.

[tkhawk]

If the eye issue and ulcer issues are ruled out-did he ever ride in hilly terrain? If not going downhill with an unbalanced rider (not you-could be a previous rider) can be extremely scary for the horse. I was test riding a new saddle which was ok for the most part but was going downhill and the saddle slipped forwad and my horse couldn't walk out-she was not happy-even though we go uphill, downhill a lot. Try and see how he is uphill-most horses are ok-may want to run up a little fast but are ok.

If he does have pain-downhill could be flaring it up too-so he maybe freaking out...

I do know of one horse that the vet said to ride only on the flat and not hills. The owner sold him to someone in the desert..

[Hopeful Hunter]

Try testing for Lyme Disease - can't hurt, might help. Especially as behavioral changes or odd lameness/soreness is a classic sign...

[Tiffani B]

I would suspect that spooking while walking down a specific hill would mean there's something behind him, at the top of the hill, that he's not seeing correctly and it scares him. I wouldn't attribute it to ulcers. A true test would be to find several other hills and see if he does the same thing.

Another thought - since this was a recent purchase, it's very possible the horse was being worked harder or had a different routine. Do you know what his daily routine was like at the former barn?

On a similar note, regarding ulcers and feed- I recently discovered this article... I'm not sure how to take it, as I've always been told feeding oats isn't the best thing for horses, especially with the modern feeds we now have. But it's "food" for thought... http://www.thehorseshoof.com/oats1.html

My horse was quiet and easygoing, pretty much unflappable, until his teeth started bothering him last week (vet coming tomorrow, whew!). He stopped eating his grain (he gets oats, Ultium and BOSS) and suddenly became Mr. Goofus Spooktacular outside, and Mr. Bounciful in his stall. I suspect it's because he's not eating all of his oats. Nothing else in his life has changed.

According to the article, the oats have fatty acids which balance the horses' energy level, as well as keep stomach bacteria and acid at the proper level, helping to prevent ulcers. I have been told feeding oats can CAUSE ulcers - so if anyone has some knowledge on this issue, please chime in!

[Rienzi]

If you get a fly mask, get one with a dark mesh, not a white or light-colored mesh.
To me, it does soun like an eye problem... what breed is he?

[Melyni]

Ulcergard is the same stuff just labelled differently so they can sell it OTC. It does cost less. Try a 1/2 tube a day for 10 days and see if it helps.
You can also go to CostCo, WalMart or Sams club and pick up generic omeprazole (Prilosec) and give the tablets. Yo give 5 X the human dose once a day. DO that for 14 days and see if he gets better.
If he has cataracts then yes they cold be getting much worse, they'll need a vet for that.
Good Luck
Yours
MW

[Fharoah]

You could try a week of bute and see if his behavior changes.

There is no chance this horse had been on a longterm sedative when he first come to your barn?

[Melyni]

You could try a week of bute and see if his behavior changes.

There is no chance this horse had been on a longterm sedative when he first come to your barn?

If he has ulcers he may not tolerate the bute, but then, that in itself could be a clue! As in, if yo give him bute and he flips out, then he definitely has ulcers!

Have a vet or other knowledgeable person check his eyes.
MW

[shalomypony]

This may be totally in left field,but is there a chance that a bear or something spooked him in the field??If he's new to the place the other horses would be used to that and he would be totally freaked out.My one horse gets just like that when the bear comes through.

[kookicat]

What is his feed schedule/amount now and what was it before? I'm wondering if something there has changed.

[horsekpr]

I would suggest testing for Lymes disease. I knew a horse who had it ,probably for quite a while ,and it went undetected until he began having a personality change such as the OP described. he got very spooky ,and started bolting.he got so you couldn't get a bridle on him. Finally,the vet thought to test for Lymes and it turned out that it had progressed to his brain.he was treated for it and recovered somewhat ,but was retired to his original home.

[wateryglen]

Just to chime in here.....Ya know....since sept. the weather round here has really changed and my own horses are goofier in this cold, fresh and WINDY weather. They are slugs all summer and hotties all winter and they're draft crosses!!! YUP! I vote weather!!:D:yes:

Maybe he's got better grass at your place! More calories? Early laminitis?
Fat horse+24hr grass+fall=laminitis???

I thing catarracts usually manifest themselves most when the horse goes from dark to light or light to dark. Like going in/out a barn or into/out of the woods. They get used to the cloudiness in their vision because it happens gradually. Catarracts do not just suddenly appear. Most old horses have them.

A simple ulcer presence test. Give him 90-120 cc's of cheap human antacid (mine like Walmart mint flavored!) and then lead him down hill or see if he's spooky. I use it as preventative with feedings. It stays in their stomach soothing & neutralizing acid for 2 hours per my vet. She recommended this and it works. ProCMC is the same thing btw! Ulcers frequently manifest themselves at feeding time. Pawing, lip curling, colic symptoms, reluctance to eat or dig in (because it hurts!) etc.

Vets recommend Ranitidine and Cimetidine all the time to cure ulcers and it works in both horses & humans. Been here/done this! Ranitidine is about $75/for 2 weeks or so at horse size doses and 300mg tabs. But I just paid $15 for a 10 day course of Cimetidine. Read up on these drugs. On human medication weblines I mean versus the proton pump inhibitors which is the omeprazole drug. We don't always have to use the bestest, most expensive drug out there to do the job for animals ya know.

[Go Fish]

You could try a week of bute and see if his behavior changes.

There is no chance this horse had been on a longterm sedative when he first come to your barn?

I would suspect this, too....

[GallopingGrape]

Long term sedative? It would have to have lasted a month? Nope, the owner rode him at the farm he lived at previously with no issues. I have an AWESOME connection to cheap scripts so I now have him on GastroGuard for 7 days then Ome.... for 30.

[Go Fish]

Long term sedative? It would have to have lasted a month? Nope, the owner rode him at the farm he lived at previously with no issues. I have an AWESOME connection to cheap scripts so I now have him on GastroGuard for 7 days then Ome.... for 30.

Fluphenazine would be my first guess - look it up. Did you draw blood for testing as part of the PPE?

[Asmac]

Ok - I agree that sight changes and ulcers can and will cause the spooking but have you also considered that this horse has not been ridden in two years and has a newbie owner? Perhaps with the physical changes he is experiencing combined with a new inexperienced rider, he is looking a "herd leader". Without a confident person on board things can go badly when the spooking is not recognized and stopped before it starts! Then it becomes a vicious cycle.

You sound very confident and experienced with horses. Would the new owner benefit from extra ground work under your supervision? I agree it is important to treat the ulcer/pain symptoms but it also sounds like the new owner could use some confidence building as well!

[CrzyCorgi]

I agree that this behavior could be everything from ulcers to newbie rider also fluphen (which would last 30 days) The one thing I have noticed is that it seems the behavior started just week or so after beginning the bute daily. (or am I just misreading) If that is the case, maybe the bute is having some effect on the GI system. If the horse must be on bute, (which I also am lost as to why he does) what about trying the new NSAID Equioxx who's drug name is firocoxib. Oops nevermind just looked it up and I think it can only be used for up to 14 days. (Huh, I work in a small animal clinic and we have our arthiritis patients on it long term -- called Previcox in the small animal world -- guess doesn't work for horse long term.) Anyway it is suppose to be much easier on the GI system.

Good Luck Grape, your a wonderful soul to try to help this guy out.;)

[GallopingGrape]

Day 9 of gastroguard and he's getting back to his old self. No more grumpness, no biting when cinching, no ears pinning... spooking has definitely become less traumatic.... he's getting back to normal. Thanks everyone!!