good jumping bloodlines

[sunnycher]

Hi, what are good/great TB jumping bloodlines, either h/j or eventing. Any particular lines that stand out? I know they all trace back to bold ruler, or native dancer, but who are great producers up closer? Thanks...

[vineyridge]

They don't all trace back to Bold ruler, Native Dancer or Northern Dancer. Many of the best ones don't, although many of the best ones do.

The Hail to Reason and Hoist the Flag lines are two that immediately come to mind.
Any of their descendants are good bets for talent. Hoist the Flag's best son was Alleged, and Hail to Reason had Roberto and Halo (among others). Another son of Turn-To, Best Turn, has been remarkably prolific in siring sons that could pass on the jump.

Of the Bold Rulers, Bold Bidder was special. So was Raja Baba. These days it's kind of hard to find horses that aren't loaded with the Dancers--that may not necessarily be bad, but you have to watch to see that the outcrosses are there.

Here's a sire in Texas that I find interesting.
Baron de Vaux-- http://www.pedigreequery.com/baron+de+vaux His topside is packed with horses that have produced jumpers.

[sunnycher]

Thank you vineyridge, here is his pedigree, looks pretty good, I think.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/annies+legacy -
he is a 3 yo never been to the track, 16.2 dark, dark bay with 1 white sock. Very cute boy. So lets hope he's athletic, too. Hoist the flag is his gg grandpa.
thanks again.

[vineyridge]

I forgot to mention Sir Gaylord, who is another of the great sporthorse sire sons of Turn-To. He is frequently found in eventers through Sir Ivor and steeplechasers through Lord Gayle.

Your boy looks very promising on paper. :)

[denny]

While there are bloodlines that we see in eventing, I think people may tend to grab onto the idea that bloodlines, per se, assure success.

I`ve known full siblings where one was an especially nice horse, the other mediocre.

Storm Cat stood for $500,000. and about 86% per cent of his foals DID NOT win a stakes race.

What I think bloodlines can do is up the odds a bit, but the individual sire and dam have to be carefully scrutinized, because if they aren`t excellent individuals, I don`t care how they are bred. You may well get a foal like the less perfect one of the sire/dam pair.

That said----

Hawaii
Never Bend
Caro
Bold Bidder
Hail to Reason

These are in lots of pedigrees (except Hawaii), so what I said above should be a cautionary note.

Further back in the past---

Cormac
Bonne Nuit
Wait a Bit
Hunter`s Moon 4th
The Hammer

There are lots of others, but these are some I`ve actually had, or know well.

[EventerAJ]

Nice to see you mention Hawaii, Denny. I know one son of Hawaii who was a particularly good jumper... ;) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/aljohnd/MoBurghley92.jpg

The other Hawaii descendants I've known (a bit farther back in the pg) were also fairly good over fences.


Having a granddaughter of Northern Dancer who jumps the moon, I would look for some ND... he also seems to produce some tough horses (physically durable, and mentally strong). A lot of people like Fappiano, too.

Keep in mind that many of these names are VERY far back in the pedigree. Genetic influence is cut in half by each generation; a grandparent essentially contributes only 1/4 of its genes to the individual. Beyond that, great-grandparents only an eighth, and so on... really, it's so minute that it doesn't matter. It may be a flashy name 4 gens back, but the parents/grandparents carry most of the weight.

Also remember that in eventing, pedigree doesn't matter. We don't ride paper, we ride horses. :)

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I've known 4 horses with Hawaii within the first three generations. That is one of my favs. to find in a pedigree. All 4 horses were fantastic jumpers and sport horses. Most famous of the 4 was Von Csadek....one of the coolest horses that I've ever known.....and probably one of the best Steeplechase horses in modern history.

It will always get my interest if they have either Hawaii or Bonne Nuit on the first page of their pedigree.

[denny]

Years ago in Montana, I bought a son of Hawaii, Goliad, out of a Hail To Reason mare,. I also bought one of his daughters, a plain looking little bay mare named Lynjetter.

Lynjetter proved to be one of those sterling broodmares who produced one after another nice babies, by a wide variety of sires.

She had Hawaii, Hail to Reason, and Never Bend in her pedigree, and even, way back, Seabiscuit!

Most tbs were bred for racing, and it`s only recently that there`s more interest in pedigrees for sport, except for pedigree geeks, of which there are quite a few on this BB.

Now, with eventing changing so radically, I think we`ll still see the good old tb blood, but increasingly crossed with something warmblood or Irish, that`s my guess.

[vineyridge]

Denny, you'll be interested to know that a son of Gone West just won the Pennsylvania Hunt Cup which was opened to professional riders for the first time this year. Naturally he's a gelding. :(

[Gestalt]

Thank you vineyridge, here is his pedigree, looks pretty good, I think.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/annies+legacy -
he is a 3 yo never been to the track, 16.2 dark, dark bay with 1 white sock. Very cute boy. So lets hope he's athletic, too. Hoist the flag is his gg grandpa.
thanks again.

ooh-la-la, you're one of the few that has a horse trace back to Laughter. I'm green with envy. Actually, right not I'm blue with cold, 20* and the furnace died. Brrrr.....

[2boys]

I have a grandson of Mr. Prospector, and keep hearing about his offspring being great jumpers.?.?.?.?

[purplnurpl]

Oui, reading this thread is making me cry.

I have had the chance to be with several babies out of a sire named Fast Forward. He has a bunch of the names that vineyridge mentioned. The minds of these horses is what was so amazing. Great brains in all of them. That is certainly the 1st step to making a great sport horse.

It kills me that Boomer's sister is sitting in a field doing nothing. She'll be 8 or 9? next year.
She's up for grabs if anyone needs a fantastic brood mare. I regret that I cannot buy her.

Here is her pedigree-
Top Side:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/fast+forward
Bottom Side:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/kentucky+nightmare

My heart beats of broken pieces. She was my dream horse.
Here is the horse as a 4 year old if anyone is interested. She has an injury that keeps her from sport. But I did have the pleasure of breaking her and a finer animal I will never sit on. Ever.
She went from having to be broke to halter to under saddle in 5 weeks.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/luci1.jpg
http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p189/xckaboom/luci2.jpg

[AdAblurr02]

Transworld - he was a producer of sheer raw jumping power and talent. Sired a pretty fair gelding named Lonesome Glory.

Our fat old Transworld granddaughter is the jumpin'est thing I have ever met, and she passes it on to all of her kids. She's by an Argentine horse named Paranoide, who is still standing in North Dakota.

I've always liked finding Princequillo in there for a sporthorse candidate - we have an older gelding who is by a Northern Dancer x What a Pleasure, and out of a mare with Princequillo pretty close up on the female side. He is a very beautiful boy, and he jumps beautifully too - style, careful, tight knees, lots of power. Lovely as a dressage mount, too.

[yellowbritches]

I didn't quite know just how well bred my 4 yr. old is until xctrygirl looked at his pedigree with me a couple of weeks ago. He is bred to run and jump, plain and simple. http://www.pedigreequery.com/vernon+tiger

He has Hail To Reason on his sire's side (is that the "top" side???) and Hoist the Flag on the dam's. He is out of a Alleged mare. Lear Fan, his sire, is a fantastic sire of steeplechasers, or so I'm told. Roberto, Lear Fan's sire, has been somewhere in the lines of some top ULRs horses in the past, though xctrygirl couldn't remember their names off the top of her head. She knows her TB bloodlines, so I have no doubt that he's got some incredible breeding behind him. And I know, that even as young as he is, he is scopey and clever as hell, and stupidly fast (thankfully, rateable). He also is pretty classy over fences. http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=0EBK008V7X0018&po=18

I rode a guy for awhile with Bonne Nuit in his pedigree. He was a scopey bastard! :lol:

[vineyridge]

Nonoalco is a very nice name to find in a pedigree, too. He was exported to France, is in the lines of a number of very good steeplechasers, and is a Chef de Race in Australia.

Where DO you folks find these wonderfully bred TBs?

[piccolittle]

I just love love LOVE Fappiano for an event horse. Plus the good ones I am aware of, the ones I like, are Princequillo and Mr Prospector.

My Princequillo-related boy is a superstar!

[juliet]

Damascus
My Babu
Grey Dawn II
Northfields
Habitat
The Minstrel
Round Table
Bull Dog
a little further back Hyperion