Yet another beet pulp question

[ptownevt]

Beet pulp (without molasses) is often recommended to get weight on, keep weight on, etc. How and why would beet pulp be so much better than anything else to put weight on? I have looked up the nutritional analysis of beet pulp and I just don't get it. Just today someone warned me against feeding my easy keeping ponies a bit of soaked, molasses free beet pulp because it is "so fattening". Can someone enlighten me?

[JB]

A cup isn't going to hurt.

Beet pulp is highly digestible fiber, which makes it a nice thing for horses who need to gain weight. 1c, which can be pretty volumous when soaked, is about 1/9th of a pound, if it's shreds (that's what mine is anyway).

[jaimebaker]

I am switching all of my easy keepers over to beet pulp. From everything I read, small amounts don't put weight on, but more does (doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out!). I'm trying to get a lot of the sugar out of their diets and see what happens. They won't be getting much, just enough to get their supplements in them. No more than 2 cups of beet pulp per horse. If they drop weight, I'll bump it up, if they gain, I'll cut back.

[Claudius]

I am using the beet pulp pellets with out molassas, and two cups of that swell up to over half a bucket full in 12 hours. It takes it much longer to break down, and I have had none of the sourness I experienced with shreds when soaked that long. My feed store guru said it moves more slowly through the gut, improving absorbtion of feed and making the horse feel full longer. I just put two cups of whole oats with it, salt and whatever supplements I am using and my two tbs stay in show shape.

any one else use the pellets?? I find them much easier to use.

[chaltagor]

any one else use the pellets?? I find them much easier to use.

I can't see how they're easier when you have to soak them for 12 hours. I only soak the shreds (tiny tiny shreds, not the thumb-sized stuff) for five minutes. Boiling hot water from the electric kettle plus cold water, five minutes, done. But I've never used the pellets at all.

[Seal Harbor]

Once the pellets have broken down and absorbed all available water they are done soaking, leaving them longer is not going to change them, unless you add more water.

I use pellets, in hot water, 2 hours 8lbs dry soaks up 4 gallons of water. It fills a 5 gallon bucket. There is no reason to leave them soaking 12 hours - they will start to ferment. If they have broken down and absorbed all the water in the bucket they are done. Cold water does take longer but not 12 hours.

[Lesley Feakins]

I started using pellets when my feed store ran out of shredded and I love them and won't go back to the shredded. For one thing it is cheaper and it doesn't bother me at all that it takes longer to soak. I do soak in the evening at last barn check for the morning's feed. Now in the summer (if I'm still feeding) I may have to revisit the soaking time but for now...whats not to like?

[Creaghgal]

Lesley, What feed store have you found pellets in? I won't buy them out, I swear.

[woops]

The reason it works so well is because it keeps the hind gut happy with the flora. If you do add anything else it also helps the nutrition absorb better.
Why does water help us so much???? It is not always the nutritional readings that are so important. Also it keeps them hydrated. Helps keep the ph of their bodies correct. ANd it also helps with ulcers. I know this was the biggest change I made to my horses diet and the best!

[jn4jenny]

Your answer is waiting for you in this document:

http://www.shady-acres.com/susan/beetpulp.shtml

[ptownevt]

Thanks, that's the article that I had read. I guess a lot of people are just still very misinformed about beet pulp. I still don't get why so many people see it as quite possibly more fattening pound for pound (soaked) than any grain or even oil. I see them at the barn very carefully adding a cup of sloppy wet beet pulp and no more like their horse is going to explode if they get a cup and a half. The things I've been told by horsepeople who are sure they are right that the beet pulp will make my horse hotter than a firecracker, obese, laminitic and on and on and on. I use a pint or so soaked beet pulp to give my pony who has foundered twice his Thyro-L. :eek:

I guess the bottom line, after rereading the article, is that you can safely feed much more beet pulp and consequently get more calories safely into the horse than you can with any grains.

Pam

[Thomas_1]

Beet pulp is higher in calories than say forage horse hay and for that reason for an easy keeper pony I'd say to feed regular late cut hay.

I don't understand why you want to give an easy keeper more???

[Claudius]

the only reason I soak it approx. 12 hours, is that I make up the next feed when I feed.....and I find it has NEVER gotten sour/rancid the way shreds will with prolonged soaking. I wouldn't NEED to soak it that long, but this is very convenient to do it this way. It is also easier to get out of the bag and I think less expensive in the long run.

[ptownevt]

The pony gets beet pulp to put his Thyro-L in. It would scatter to the wind if I sprinkled a tsp of powder on hay. It doesn't adhere to any kind of pellet either. Beet pulp, being wet, ensures he gets it.

[jaimebaker]

The pony gets beet pulp to put his Thyro-L in. It would scatter to the wind if I sprinkled a tsp of powder on hay. It doesn't adhere to any kind of pellet either. Beet pulp, being wet, ensures he gets it.

That's the one of the reason I'm switching mine to BP (as opposed to nothing at all). All of my horses are on plenty of pasture that they don't NEED anything extra to eat. But they can get whatever meds or supps they need and THINK they are getting a meal. Plus, dinner time is a great time to check for booboos without them paying much attention to me. I have other reasons for switching them over too but I wanted to feed something that wouldn't add a lot of calories but that I could add supps to.


Oh, and I feed the shreds but only because of time constraints (horses are fed in the morning, I don't live where they are (not boarded), so on and so on).

[vickienme]

You can use this for easy and hard keepers both, just vary the amt fed.
Great for helping rescues too! See my feed mix below the article. I use grass hay for all, and add 1 flake 2 X daily alfalfa with 1 flake grass, to my 31 yr old stallion that will lose wt otherwise as he prefers alfalfa to grass. I buy
the pellets and hydrate.

Benefits of Beet Pulp
without Molasses!

In feeding an easy-keeper (those with the "thrifty" gene :-)), a prone-to-founder horse, or a
potential insulin resistant horse, you can supplement with non-molasses beet pulp.

Potential or suspected insulin resistant (IR) horses may display some of the following symptoms:
excessive drinking and urination, patchy fat and / or large heavy crest, any chronic laminitis,
any laminitis /founder which seems to be from underexercise and overweight.

It is very important to reduce the amount of sugar for the above types of horses. The non-molasses
type of beet pulp generally can have anywhere from 5 to 10% sugar with a glycemic index of 1
which means that it does not have much affect on blood glucose levels. Oats has a glycemic
index of 100 and bermuda hay has a glycemic index of around 20.

From The Horse (2/03) regarding beet pulp written by Ray Geor, BVSc, PhD (equine exercise physiology),
Dipl. ACVIM: "Plain beet pulp is a low-glycemic feed--there is little rise in blood glucose as most
of the energy is provided in the form of volatile fatty acids, products of the fermentation occurring
in the cecum and large colon. Therefore, beet pulp can be classified as a source of "calm energy."

The ratio is approximately one pound of beet pulp equal to 1.5 lbs of average grass hay, with some
estimates being closer to 1 : 2.

One of the ingredients in the Cushings cube is also beet pulp.

Generally the beet pulp is rinsed a couple of times before feeding. It comes in a couple of
different types, shredded and pellets, molasses added, plain. If you cannot find plain beet pulp,
rinse it until it becomes clear. You may want to rinse / soak your hay to relieve it from sugar also.

There should be no other sources of sugar for these horses: no grain products, no senior feed,
no carrots, no apples, no manufactured treats. Some of these horses cannot tolerate alfalfa.

Some owners have had success in supplementing with cinnamon, approximately one teaspoon
per 250 pounds, for IR horses. See the EC Files section for more info.

If you need to feed treats (not that horses need them :-)), here is a list of acceptable treats as
recommended by Dr. Kellon:

[] No grains, flour, processed fats, sugar, honey, molasses.

[] Human foods such as breads, cookies, pasta, or baked horse treats.

[] No fruits.

[] No carrots or apples.

Even a very small amount of the above can set off an IR horse. (BTW, it is suggested NOT to bed on straw.)

Things to use in place of the above:

[] A bit of his normal hay or acceptable pellets (bermuda).

[] iceberg lettuce, celery, mushroom, fresh parsley

[] Small amount of apple peel (no chunks of fruit attached)

[] Tablespoon of low fat, plain, unsweetened yogurt

[] Shells and papery outer covering of nuts (save those peanut, pumpkin seed, sunflower seed shells)

[] Small palmful of shelled peanuts, pumpkin seeds, sunflower seeds, soybeans (not roasted, flavored or fat added)

Adding oil will blunt the glycemic response to a single feeding, but using it chronically
worsens insulin resistance in ponies for sure, quite possibly in horses as well - especially
if they were insulin resistant to start with.

Wheat bran has a high carbohydrate count, so be careful of its use.

Balancing minerals with the hay and beet pulp needs to be taken into consideration.
Rice bran is the best / most concentrated phosphorus source, however, take care in feeding
too much. Poor bone quality is going to be the consequence if you don't. We stay away from
wheat bran with IR horses and use rice bran, SMALL amounts, just to balance the calcium
in the beet pulp and to get some omega 3 fatty acids into them.

For growing horses, a 50:50 mix of oats (some Icelandic Horses don't tolerate oats, my gelding
is an example of this as he gets very "high" in a nervous reactive way with oats) and beet pulp
is good as a base for supplements. This blend is already major mineral balanced and you can
use it as a carrier for the other minerals you need. Beet pulp has a calorie density equivalent to
plain grains but since it soaks up to a very high volume you end up diluting the calories by a
factor of about 4. The moist pulp holds minerals very well.
Article by Susan Garlinghouse.

MY FAVORITE SPECIAL FEED MIX by Vickie Stevens:
I feed this mix once daily. If I have a horse that
needs supplements twice daily I'll hold out one dog food scoop (1qt)
full for next morning feeding.

Per Horse - 1 to 2 cups dry measured BP pellets without molasses,
Hydrate Beet Pulp with 1 to 2 qts hot water, (adjust as needed, fluffy not soppy)
1 ounce or so (up to 2 cups) apple cider vinegar,
from 1 teaspoon up to 3 Tablespoons garlic powder/granulated
per horse, 1/3 cup up to 2/3 cup whole flax seed per horse, 1/2 cup corn oil.

If your horse is not insulin resistant you can add 1 to 2 cups whole oats to the hydration mix and if an oldie you can also add some alfalfa pellets.

Mix into the hydrated mix when ready to feed, 1 cup stabilized rice bran (Satin Finish) per horse,
Prozyme with BG or Sr Prozyme with BG, Selenium/Vit E, (be sure to check with
your local county extension office to find out if your area is high or low in selenium)
We also have a natural Vit E supplement if your area/hay is high in selenium)
Humic Shale Ore.

Feed 2 to 4 dog food (1 qt) scoops per horse, in my case as much as needed to
help horse regain some wt if they lost alot. Very safe feed mix. Slow metabolizing
so is great in the winter too, keeps them satisfied and warm.

You can top dress with a digestive supplement pellets and/or HOOF specific nutrients for anyone needing extra.

I'm mixing for 9 to 11 horses usually.


So I'm guessing for one horse. About 2 qts hot water to 1 to 2 cups dry
Measured beet pulp per horse. 1 oz apple cider vinegar, up to
3 T garlic powder/granulated per horse. The garlic and applecider vinegar
will do wonders for their skin health and prevent fly sores, repels knats.

My mixing is in a 5 gal bucket. 2 gallons hot water with
About 1 1/2 to 2 inches in the bottom of 1 gallon jug of
Apple cider vinegar. In the other gallon I put 1 teaspoon per
Horse up to 3 Tablespoons per horse of the garlic and fill
With hot water and shake to dissolve. I use 3 T per horse
Year round of the garlic.

If you are just starting out, go with
1 Teaspoon and build up to 3 Tablespoons over a little time
Allowing the horse to get used to it. Mine love it. Smells
Like Doritos and they lick the buckets clean. You want
The beet pulp after hydrated to be fluffy and damp. Not
Soggy and fully hydrated. No little hard pieces preferably.
I just pour in some Corn Oil and stir it all around and put
the lid on and allow it to hydrate for 4 hours or more. I mix
this in the morning and feed at evening feeding and same some
for next morning when I have horses getting supplements
twice daily. During summer you can up the amt of garlic as needed
up to 3 Tablespoons daily to get your best results. Twice daily is
best during the summer as our bodies use up what we feed it
every 12 hours. During the winter, one time daily is enough and you
can reduce the amt to 1/2 the summer dose if you want to.

During the winter I feed more than I do in the summer, still
Mostly one time per day at dinner to keep them warm through
The nite and not cold or massively hungry in the morning.
I can easily feed as late as noon and not have anyone colicy
Or massively hungry and mad at me. During the summer the
Garlic and applecider vinegar really help with the insects and
I always give them their supplements daily anyway.

NOTE: Never feed this beet pulp dry. It plumps up fast and
Sticks in their throat and they choke. This requires
An ACE shot in the muscle from your vet to allow them
To relax their throat enough for it to go down. (I've
Done this 3 different times so "don't do it", they will
Eventually choke on it and get very distressed and anxious)

The Satin Finish bag says, two and 3 yr old 1# to 1 /2#'S per day
Mature horses based on 1000#'S - 2#'S heavy use down to 1#/day
Not in use horse. Extreme use cases endurance racing, eventing etc.
Custom programs available 1-800-742-3272 Satin Finsh Wilcott Farms, Inc.
P.O. Box 5, Willows, CA 95988

This will bring any horse up to speed condition wise and for an easy
keeper just feed 2 scoops daily of the hydrated mix without any oats or
alfalfa pellets.

I keep a liquid Probi on hand for any gas colic
in the medicine cupboard, is liquid gold to me. I recommend using
a natural wormer rather than chemicals. Chemicals can really tax
an already taxed immune system and so can vaccines. I recommend
using nosodes for immunizing instead. I have access to a natural fed daily
to deter gut parasites, use the Parasite tonic to clean out any blood parasites. You can use an herbal wormer 5 days a month on the full moon
as the other option. These are just my recommendations,
alternative methods that have been working for me and mine.

[Tillie]

Wow. You definitely LOFF sharing that recipe, over and over again..

[Simkie]

Wow. You definitely LOFF sharing that recipe, over and over again..

LOL...glad I'm not the only one who noticed.

I believe that's the FASTEST I've ever added someone to my "ignore" list...

[fivehorses]

wow you guys...kind of nasty. If you don't like something, have you ever thought about ignoring it, rather than hurt someone's feelings.
Obviously, Vickienne is happy with her experience and wants to share it.
If you aren't interested, so be it.

I guess I now will look at what you guys post with skepticism since you are more righteous than the rest of us.

[sk_pacer]

What everyone is missing is that unless you are feeding a small amount to put supplements in, or are feeding to add weight, you remove regular hay, pound for pound , with each pound of beet pulp - it becomes part of the forage ration, not an addition to the forage ration. If you feed pounds of it, as I do to keep a horse hydrated in brutal cold weather, you simply remove a like number of pounds of hay; always remember to weigh the beet pulp dry, not wet. When the weather gets worse than brutal cold, then the beet pulp just becomes additional forage for the calories required to keep the horses warm and happy.

[Simkie]

wow you guys...kind of nasty. If you don't like something, have you ever thought about ignoring it, rather than hurt someone's feelings.
Obviously, Vickienne is happy with her experience and wants to share it.
If you aren't interested, so be it.

I guess I now will look at what you guys post with skepticism since you are more righteous than the rest of us.

What?

vickienme has been spamming the forum with that one post. I swear I saw it nearly half a dozen times just last night.

I don't like spam, and I'm pretty sure it's not allowed on the forums :rolleyes:

[sk_pacer]

What?

vickienme has been spamming the forum with that one post. I swear I saw it nearly half a dozen times just last night.

I don't like spam, and I'm pretty sure it's not allowed on the forums :rolleyes:

Spam schmam........i just followed her link out of curiosity, and pure spam it aint......it is blatant advertising....she is a distributor for soemthing called abc holiistic somethingorother.........gawd, how little some people read the rules. Advertising is CERTAINLY against the rule even if spam ist.

I don't like spam iither......both kinds internet and tinned!!!

[chaltagor]

I had to go see the spammers website. Check out this pic:

http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/44182/2917763300102335016S500x500Q85.jpg

(i moved it to my webshots so it'd stay around)

[li'l bit]

In my experience, one of the best things about feeding NMBP is that I can cut down the hay to help reduce "hanging bellies" and by giving 1/2 cup measured dry then soaked, they don't even notice. Even though they are getting less hay, they still have a little bit left at the next feeding. It does seem to make them feel full and satisfied longer so they don't feel the need to be munching constantly..........and the bellies are really tightening up.
I use Blue Seal non molasses beet pulp pellets. They are a very good product.

[Mendin Fences]

Does anyone feed the shredded bp with molasses? It seems like everyone goes without the molasses. I have a 17yo ~16 hand TB mare. She was skin and bones when I bought her 2yrs ago, and I've tried various things to get her weight up and maintain it. (She went from blanket size 72 to a solid 78 in the past 2 years! I have bought 72's, 74's, 76's, and a 78) Beet pulp is my latest thing. She seems to like it, and it forces her to eat her supplements. She recently found out I was "drugging" her breakfast grain with supplements, and started dumping the whole thing on the ground so she could eat the grain and not the supps.

She eats:
*4-6 flakes of hay/day She'll eat more hay when it's fed during her 6-9 hrs of t/o than if she's in the stall all day.
*1/2 scoop (measured dry) of the bp shreds
*3 scoops of Hunter pellets

Does that seem like a decent amount of BP for a horse her size? Should I switch to non-molasses? The article that another user posted seemed to say that it doesn't really add more sugar than a couple of apples worth.

[jaimebaker]

Does anyone feed the shredded bp with molasses? It seems like everyone goes without the molasses.



I can't help you with amounts but I just recently started feeding BP. The ONLY thing I can find is WITH molasses. So, I just soak and rinse until the water runs clear if I want the sugar out (a couple of fatties need to be without sugars). For the two I have that might possibly lose weight in the winter I'm leaving theirs with the molasses for the extra calories.

[sk_pacer]

Does anyone feed the shredded bp with molasses? It seems like everyone goes without the molasses. I have a 17yo ~16 hand TB mare. She was skin and bones when I bought her 2yrs ago, and I've tried various things to get her weight up and maintain it. (She went from blanket size 72 to a solid 78 in the past 2 years! I have bought 72's, 74's, 76's, and a 78) Beet pulp is my latest thing. She seems to like it, and it forces her to eat her supplements. She recently found out I was "drugging" her breakfast grain with supplements, and started dumping the whole thing on the ground so she could eat the grain and not the supps.

She eats:
*4-6 flakes of hay/day She'll eat more hay when it's fed during her 6-9 hrs of t/o than if she's in the stall all day.
*1/2 scoop (measured dry) of the bp shreds
*3 scoops of Hunter pellets

Does that seem like a decent amount of BP for a horse her size? Should I switch to non-molasses? The article that another user posted seemed to say that it doesn't really add more sugar than a couple of apples worth.


But how much does the hay and concentrates WEIGH? In forage alone, the amount should be roughly 1 - 2% of the body weight and more than that frir thinner animal, and even more in very cold weather. The problem with feeding by flakes is no two flakes weigh the same, even from the same bale and flakes in small squares can weigh from a couple of pounds to 5+, so theoretically, she may be getting only 8 pounds of hay per day. How much does that beet pulp weigh? A scoop means nothing, pounds and ounces mean far more, you can actually calculate calories by feed type and weight but not by scoops. FWIW, I feed 8 POUNDS of beet pulp per day, sometimes more if it is 40 below and that thermometer is stuck there, so half a 'scoop' probably ain't a lot. At any rate, the molasses in beet pup isn't a lot, very little in fact, just enough to hide the smell of the beet pulp, barely. Your other feed, I never heard of. so cannot comment, just ask how much does it weigh.

[Mendin Fences]

sk, as far as the hay I guess you could say she pretty much gets free choice hay since she almost never finishes it. We usually throw her leftovers out in the pasture with her and her 2 buddies when they are turned out in the morning, plus more for thier lunch portions.

Do you weigh your bp wet or dry when you come up with 8lbs?

Ok, I have to go watch House for the next 68mins :D

[sk_pacer]

I weigh dry, otherwise you are weighing water and that does nothing to add calories.

and i gotta go feed so i can watch house!!!LOL

[vickienme]

Thanks to the other's who understand. With cold weather coming on, BP is the best thing I have seen to keep the "shivers" away. It's not a very convient feed mix, but not hard to make and the horses really do better.

Happy Thanksgiving! :)