Young horse coughing out of confusion??

[annikak]

Yes, strange title. But I just am bring my 4yo into work-again. Yes, he has been started, but has been on the start-stop system of beginning his career- one part me, one part him. He went to have good work started at a trainers abt 2 months ago so I could do the work without having someone else here when I rode him just to make sure that he was not going to do something stupid, and he went lame after a total of 5 rides. IT MAY have been Potomac Fever- he came home with a temp of 103 and proceeded to get sicker and sicker. Now, 2 months later, it's back to trying again to get his job started. He has not been lame since then :winkgrin:)

So today was the day. DD is coming home and I want her here for her eyes and thoughts (She's an USPC A) , and the vet is scheduled to come and do a lameness check to R/O any underlying issues once he has had a week or so of work-so I can proceed with him. He looked pretty good! Lunging went well, a few coughs but then....

I got on him, and boy oh boy...it was not coughing like normal, it was like some dogs cough when you are asking them to do something they don't get. We were just trotting around- and when I asked him to do something like turn off the circle (COUGH) when I asked him to trot again, (COUGH) when I asked him to move away from my leg, (COUGH). It truly felt like a small temper tantrum. That's okay- and sort of funny, actually. When we were just doing our thing, and I was just on the circle, and not doing more then just trotting, he was NOT coughing, when I introduced something, that's when it started.

Trust me in this- I am not asking too much, not demanding anything other then baby baby stuff, I have NO contact with his mouth, and our indoor is really not at all dusty. I have no noseband on him, just a mylar snaffle. He is not coughing in the barn, he lives out except for eating, we have great hay. I do not think it's a "Sick" cough-

FWIW, he is out of a Babamist mare, and by Indian Art. He is a late 4YO, (Sept 29th). He does have a parrot mouth. We bred him, and he has not been sick except that one incident this past Sept. He is a comical kind of guy, who does express his frustration in a lot of "interesting" ways.

All this to say- have you ever experienced this??

[findeight]

Sounds like either something is caught or stuck somewhere in his windpipe or he has some kind of bug and is swollen. Does he have a temp?

Don't think horses would think up a fake cough to avoid work. Especially not a green 4 year old. Maybe an old, nasty school pony may figure out if they limp, rider gets off (and I have seen that one). Not a cough.

Get him scoped.

[Little Valkyrie]

I recently heard that some horse's invert their soft palette while they are being ridden, especially if they're tense and have to cough to put it back. I don't have any details, but maybe something to look into. Good luck!

[Hilary]

This isn't quite the same but my mare HAS to have a coughing fit when she first trots. I think it's both habit, and because she grabs some grass on the way to the ring and has bits left in her mouth. We walk around the ring a couple of times, pick up a trot on a loose rein and COUGH COUGH COUGH, NOSE BLOW COUGH. We walk, and get that last cough done, then proceed with the ride (and no more coughing).

She does this every single ride. And has since she was 3 (she's 8) I bet he has a tickle and the newness makes him look for something else to do.

I'd ride a few more times and see if it either gets worse or goes away.

[annikak]

Hilary-- That sure is the plan- now adding this into the strange lameness issue.

I think the idea of coughing to put the palate back in place makes a lot of sense, actually. He has a parrot mouth, as I said, and it could make a bit of sense. My vet and I want him in work because the thought is we need to R/O wobbles, anyway. We have already R/O lymes, and other things.

My rational (for those wondering why I am trying this in Nov...) is that I am back in school, working and have horses all over the place. Taco, (my love) is down with CookiePony, and having fun there...she is a great mom to him, and he is loving being with her. My other 2 are out on lease- Doc is with a good friend and her daughter is riding her. Skee is out on a lease/option to buy. They made an offer which felt very insulting. (Perhaps another thread...:eek:) and I now need to see if I have a horse to ride...my lovely barn and indoor taunt me every day!

Skee can hunt, event, do dressage and is a good and easy keeper. If these people don't value him as they should (They offered 1/3 less then the agreed upon value), then he can come home. IF Wrainthur (think Ranger with a parrot mouth) is not able to stay sound or has intrinsic issues, then all the more reason for Skee to come home. If he (Wrainthur) is sound, then they can continue to lease him...if they want to. So, I do have reason to push the issue.

I will now add scope to my list of things to look at when the vet comes out! :yes:

[goeslikestink]

Yes, strange title. But I just am bring my 4yo into work-again. Yes, he has been started, but has been on the start-stop system of beginning his career- one part me, one part him. He went to have good work started at a trainers abt 2 months ago so I could do the work without having someone else here when I rode him just to make sure that he was not going to do something stupid, and he went lame after a total of 5 rides. IT MAY have been Potomac Fever- he came home with a temp of 103 and proceeded to get sicker and sicker. Now, 2 months later, it's back to trying again to get his job started. He has not been lame since then :winkgrin:)

So today was the day. DD is coming home and I want her here for her eyes and thoughts (She's an USPC A) , and the vet is scheduled to come and do a lameness check to R/O any underlying issues once he has had a week or so of work-so I can proceed with him. He looked pretty good! Lunging went well, a few coughs but then....

I got on him, and boy oh boy...it was not coughing like normal, it was like some dogs cough when you are asking them to do something they don't get. We were just trotting around- and when I asked him to do something like turn off the circle (COUGH) when I asked him to trot again, (COUGH) when I asked him to move away from my leg, (COUGH). It truly felt like a small temper tantrum. That's okay- and sort of funny, actually. When we were just doing our thing, and I was just on the circle, and not doing more then just trotting, he was NOT coughing, when I introduced something, that's when it started.

Trust me in this- I am not asking too much, not demanding anything other then baby baby stuff, I have NO contact with his mouth, and our indoor is really not at all dusty. I have no noseband on him, just a mylar snaffle. He is not coughing in the barn, he lives out except for eating, we have great hay. I do not think it's a "Sick" cough-

FWIW, he is out of a Babamist mare, and by Indian Art. He is a late 4YO, (Sept 29th). He does have a parrot mouth. We bred him, and he has not been sick except that one incident this past Sept. He is a comical kind of guy, who does express his frustration in a lot of "interesting" ways.

All this to say- have you ever experienced this??

get a vet out to check out his upper and lower resportory tracks

[yventer]

get a vet out to check out his upper and lower resportory tracks

And his heart!!

~Y

[Thomas_1]

Horses don't lie and horses don't pretend to be ill, lame or unwell to get out of work. You should therefore presume that he's telling you what you maybe don't want to hear......

So he's got a respiratory problem. Coughing during exercised is quite simply a sign of that. It might just be residual infection in the air way whic is taking a little while to clear up. It might be some sort of airway disease which makes breathing less efficient on exercise. It might even be lungworm.

But I'm 300% positive he's not doing it to get out of work. Its a sign he's got a respiratory probem - hence the cough.

[annikak]

I really appreciate everyone responding.

First, no, he does not have a temp, and there is no discharge at all. It's not a wet cough, nor one that is what I call the "clearing" cough that some horses seem to make when they begin work. He is not making any noise when he breaths, so does not sound like a roarer. And since this all occured in less the 10 min, it was not getting worse really with exercise. It's not that cold, about 35 so I don't think cold was a factor.

When he was sick in Sept, the vet did a good check up, so she has a good baseline to start from. But again, it does not seem like a sick cough. It does seem like it could be a "flipping my palate" cough. In any event, I sure am not going to do more then trot him for a min or 2! And of course, the vet is going to check this out, too.

I totally agree horses do not lie.:yes: But they do get frustrated, and I did wonder if that was his issue. He is a horse that is expressive in his frustration- When he eats, he bucks (one or 2 BIG bucks then he eats:confused:), and we know he does not have ulcers (was checked a year or so back- but he has done this buck thing since he was a weaning. I thought for SURE it was ulcers! I was told..."Nope, just him!") He is just kind of strange that way. We call him "his own horse". He stays alone gladly, does not care much about the other horses all that much. When I first rode him, he would slam his foot down- and really express his desire to be not ridden/confined/told what to do.

I will say that when he went to the trainers (MME on the COTH) he was not so calm- he missed home (where he has always been.) So perhaps he does have a higher level of stress the he shows --I'll assume that for now. Also, he has never done this coughing thing before. So, maybe he is starting to get sick, and I cannot see the other symptoms just yet.

It does make me wonder about the parrot mouth connection- the vet and I are wondering if he has wobbles (why I am trying to work him now so he will be honestly lame- which he sure is not now) that is brought on by work. If there is a connection, the palate would also fit in with that. In any event, there will be a lot to talk about at that visit. I sure hope he is okay...:(

[Hilary]

I don't have anything more constructive to add but I can't stop giggling at "ranger with a lisp"

[goeslikestink]

cpod is a resportory decease and doesnt care how old the horse is to get it its related to dust and polin plus worms
worms also cause a horse to cough -----as thomas says and nto just lung worms but any womrs
call a vet ----- now

[frugalannie]

Just a shout out to Annika, who seems to never, ever have it easy with a horse.

I will say that your mention of his bucking when eating makes me think that there's an issue with his palate or throat. Is he a little thick through his throatlatch? A friend vetted a lovely horse at the track: didn't pass because he had a partial paralysis. The horse didn't roar: the only outward sign was a slight thickening at the throatlatch. Scoping should rule it out.

And how is Reason? Is he growing up to be a big boy?

[mademoiselle]

I don't know if it can help, but I don't remember him coughing when I had him. Even when I worked him harder (25 minutes on the lunge line with a lot of transitions) and w/t/c under saddle. I don't know if that can help, but I just wanted to let you know.

I'm sorry that things are not working for the best for Skeeter.

Hang in there and keep us posted.

[gully's pilot]

I did know an elderly Connemara mare who coughed violently and dramatically whenever she was told off. She'd nip at another horse on a trail ride, be remprimanded, roll her eyes, and cough. It was really hilarious. The owner assured me that she'd been fully vetted, and since she ONLY did it when she was told to behave it seemed to be completely benign.

[ideayoda]

To see how respitory it is, just hold the nostrils shut (or the vet will put a bag over to see the stress levels of lungs/breathing). The horse will realllly cough then if it is lungs/throat. (Did you just close up the barn or change hay???)

[CookiePony]

I have no idea what could be making Wrainthur cough-- but for those who have experience with upper airway problems, do they sometimes get worse when the horse is tense? At any rate, I hope his exam and scope help clear up the issue. Did you try again today?

He is a lucky guy to have an owner like you who will work hard to figure this out. :cool: That is very discouraging to hear about Skeeter's people, OTOH.

Taco has been a total love as usual. He went out and schooled a little XC today so I could work on pace and balance (notice I say "I"-- his pace and balance are very adjustable so I am the one who has to figure out what to ask for!). He would wait patiently for his turn, then come to life to do a set of fences, then immediately relax and stand quietly with the group again. What a mensch!