First Colic - now Salmonella

[Kate66]

A month in and out of one equine hospital and a vet teaching hospital and today we have a positive fecal for salmonella. What a complete and utter pain. We have no idea why he was colicing so much but now he has this other issue to deal with. Reading up about it it seems highly possible that he actually caught it at one of the hospitals, perhaps partly because of the drugs, partly because of the oiling etc, that the flora in his gut was completely messed up............or maybe he has always had it and just has never been sick so never "shed".

I am $4k poorer and now have a horse that has to remain completely quarantined for 6 weeks, with me changing clothes to go in and out of his stall, keeping everything completely separate. Anyone tried to do that? Let me tell you, tonight I had to try to clean his stall. I took down a complete change of clothes and changed in the barn, put on my rubber boots and cleaned the stall. Then I needed to feed him - whoops, what about the rubber boots, so took them off, went into the barn to get the feed, then had to put the rubber boots back on to go back into the stall. Then I had to re-strip (me) in my barn, which was pretty darn cold tonight and put my other clothes back on - but what to do with the clothes that I took off? If I put them on the barn floor then won't I get bacteria on the floor?

I have decided that the easiest option is to buy a cowboy shower, clean his stall and feed him butt naked and then just shower before coming back in!!

Tomorrow I am going to put horse mesh fence up around a small enclosed area to stop the dogs getting in and him getting out and I am turning him out. He is going nuts in the stall and as I live above the barn I can hear him. I don't want him being stressed and subsequently getting sicker - right now he is completely asymptomatic (for salmonella) - no diarrhea, nothing. At least outside, my logic is that I can throw him his feed without being naked and I can just pick up the poop every other day (of course it needs to be burned or bagged and trashed) and I won't have to deal with dusty, potentially infected shavings flying around, into my hair, settling on anything.

Anyone else dealt with this?

[dwblover]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear of your troubles! I've never dealt with salmonella, but hope I don't have to!! This will all be over soon. Just keep your chin up. Best wishes.

[Skeezix]

I am so sorry you are having to go through this. They suspected salmonella with my girl, but she never tested positive. I am sending many many jingles for your boy . . . my girl didn't make it :(

[saultgirl]

I have heard salmonella can be spread by pigeons, which is a good reason to keep them from roosting in your hay loft.

Your plan on keeping him outside sounds good. How many horses are at your barn?

[MistyBlue]

Here's what I do if I have to quarantine something in the barn...go to a paint store/hardware store and buy yourself a cheapo set of painter's coveralls. They make inexpensive plain cotton ones, pick up two pair if possible and get them in a men's large. That way you can slip them on over your regular clothes easily. Also buy a box of latex gloves at CVS and buy a box of shoe covers there too. At CVS also pick up a box of small garbage bags, the size for the little bathroom trash cans and a canister of antibacterial wipes.
Now you can put on a pair of latex gloves, slip on the coveralls over your normal clothes and snap on a pair of shoe covers. Feed, clean stall, etc...when done walk out of area, keeping gloves on remove coveralls and place into regular sized garbage bag, knot top closed. Remove shoe covers and then slip off gloves and throw away in small garbage bags you just bought. Knot top tightly and throw those away. Use wipes on hands and face and leave barn area with plastic bag containing coveralls. Next time you go into horse area put gloves on first and slide into coveralls, then add shoe covers so you're never touching the coveralls with your bare hands. If you get two coveralls you can wash one while you wear the other but I keep the one I'm using in a knotted plastic bag and every time I go to put it back on or away in the plastic bag I spray it with antibacterial spray.

[LaurieB]

You have my sympathy. We had a 2YO filly that got salmonella while at the clinic. She, too, was asymptomatic but it was a total pain to deal with. :(

[sid]

Yes, probably picked up at the hospital. I had to deal with this as well years ago. The most important thing is to keep the horse in isolation of the stall. It makes it easier if only ONE person cleans/picks and uses a unique set of supplies/equipment, clothing, wears boot covers (you can get them at the vet hosp)...and disinfect everything that is used in that stall (including equipment) before it contaminates anything else. Often with salmonella comes diahhrea and that can make it even harder. Basically you have to be sure that manure contamination remains IN THAT STALL. Once the horse is "clear" you'll need to disinfect the tar out of it.

Most healthy adult horses nearby will not be affected, or if they are, seldom die from it...but for foals (if the barn is to be later used for foaling) it can be a deadly disaster.

Good luck...ain't easy. Been there. The most important thing is to not let anyone or anything inadvertantly track manure from that stall around anywhere else in the barn or grounds.

I feel for you.

[Peggy]

My horse just spent a week in the isolation part of the equine hospital b/c he arrived with diarrhea and they isolate everything with those symptoms. Ironically it turned out that he had an impaction and only the liquid-ey stuff could pass thru, hence presenting as diarrhea. And he didn't have salmonella.

In front of each horse's stall was a garbage bag and a bag of blue plastic booties (like the ones pictured here (http://www.jorvet.com/pdf/Literature/biosecurity_protective_apparel.pdf)) that you could put on over your shoes and that went to mid-calf. The protocol was to put those on whenever you went in the stall and then remove them within the first step out of the stall. They went in the trash bag. People who handled the horse more closely wore gloves that also went into the garbage bag. There was a bottle of hand sanitizer at each stall.

There were several articles about handling horses that were isolated for health reasons during the EHV mess not quite two years ago. One was in PH, others were in the Chronicle magazine, including one about somehow who had to deal with an isolation barn for some time. IIRC, there was additional info on The Horse website.

Here's one on handling the horse in isolation (http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=316) (you have to join, but it's free, and a great resource).

Biosecurity (https://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=12089) on the farm, with a link to a USDA manual.

A page of links (http://www.thehorse.com/TopicSearch/Default.aspx?ID=223&nID=3&n=Hygiene%2FDisinfection) from The Horse, including one on salmonella.

Good luck. I feel for you. And you don't want salmonella yourself. Trust me. I lost 15 pounds in a week, but it wasn't pleasant.

[Peggy]

Just remembered something else. The vet at the equine hospital where Star was said that some of "these horses" (and I assume he was referring to horses with impactions, not tall fuzzy dark brown horses) were salmonella carriers.

[Kate66]

Thanks again everyone.

I am so miserable this evening. I just went and cleaned out his stall. He was lying down. He got up and kinda stood around while I cleaned out his stall. I noticed that his poops were much smaller tonight and had a layer of mucus round some of them - I have to think that isn't good. I gave him a flake of alfalfa and a small amount of senior feed (as recommended by the vet hospital). He vaguely looked at them and then just lay down again, looked at his stomach a few times, rolled and then just lay flat.

The thing that is killing me is that they never found out why he is behaving so colicky but in the meantime managed to get him sick anyway.

We luckily only have one other horse here right now, we have gone down from 6 to 2 in about 18 months, thank goodness.

Today I did manage to totally mesh fence in an area that is 300' in diameter, so not huge, but big enough for him to wander around, nibble a bit etc. Once he is over this (fingers crossed) we will spray bleach that whole area and leave it fallow for a year or so, we don't need it so can do that I think.

Thanks for your ideas on the coveralls - good idea!

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

Hi Kate,
So sorry you & your horse are going through all of this. Have you ever tried to give your horse only senior feed that is soaked to a runny mush? You've probably tried all these things but what about daily probiotics along with the runny mush senior feed. Try NO hay as he can live on senior feeds if need be. Have seen 2 horses in the past year that can't tolerate hay. One is getting small amounts now but the older one will never tolerate it as he has narrowing of part of his small bowel & hay can't pass through easily.
Hope your guy improves.

[apachepony]

The vet hospital he was at would have everything you need for isolation. Contact them, and buy a few of everything you need.

If you suit up like the picture someone linked to, the boots go UNDER the suit. Otherwise you get salmonella contaminated shaving inside your boots, then what's the point? If you want to be really careful, one pair under the suit and one pair over. The over pair come off as you step outside the stall, so the "dirty" boots never come out of the stall. Then the "clean" boots come off before you leave the area.

If you're worried about your hair, get an old toboggan to put on while you're cleaning the stall, just ditch it once he's off isolation. A mask wouldn't be a bad idea. It is NOT fun catching stuff from horses while you clean the stall. Shaving dust flies everywhere.

[lovemyrobin]

I'm so sorry to hear about your horse.

The same thing happened to me a few years ago with my ex-horse Robin. He coliced and went to UGA Lg Animal Hospital. Ended up having surgery and when we went to pick him up it way "by the way, your horse has Salmonella" Great, taking a colic surgery recuperating horse with salmonella back to a show barn with 30 horses. It was a pain to keep him isolated and he had his own muck bucket, pitchfork, etc..

He actually recovered very well, didn't ever act sickly, and no other horses got infected. And we had another pony then, and I'm sure I probably handled her a few times without washing up from Robin. But no one else got sick.

[TrueColours]

When I owned my first breeding stallion, many years ago, we moved into our first farm and a client/friend of mine wanted to breed her mare to him and we made arrangements for her to bring the mare to me in 2-3 weeks time when she would be ready to breed.

In the meantime, they had a young filly they sent to a local vet hospital for minor surgery and the filly was discharged with projectile diarrhea which was subsequently tested to be positive for salmonella. The clients blamed the vet hospital for infecting her, the vet hospital said that she arrived with it

My dilema now was how was I to handle this mare that was going to come to my farm in 2-3 weeks time to get bred, that had been LIVING in the same pasture with this filly for the last 3+ years? And the owners had not followed any isolation practices before she left and they didnt follow any when she returned either as it was another 7 days or so before the vet hospital broke the news to them on the positive fecal culture. There were also about 40+ horses on the property at the time as well.

I was told in the case of this mare to house her on concrete only, use separate utensils, use a footbath, scrub my hands with betadine, change boots, etc all which were totally impractical for a mare that I didnt even have a CLUE if she was positive or not!

I phoned Davis, Colorado, New Bolton and Guelph and learned all I could about salmonella lickety split

To start with, any show grounds, race tracks, boarding barns, auction venues, etc probably have dozens and dozens of shedders on the premises at any given time, and especially in the case of auctions and shows where the horses have just shipped in, and are stressed, if they are going to shed - that is the prime time for them to do so.

So ... as you are walking through the grounds or the building and you step in a little bit of manure, you are then at risk for bringing that home with you and infecting your entire barn. That horse that just came on the commercial carrier - same thing - if the horse in the stall before it was a shedder - he has just come on to your property as a potentially infected shedder as well ...

I learned that in order to EFFECTIVELY test for salmonella, you need to stress the horse PRIOR to collecting the manure sample. So - in the case of a mare with a foal at side - remove the foal and as she is screaming and running around the stall spraying manure - collect THAT sample and not one when she is standing there quietly munching her hay. And do that for 5 days in a row to get an accurate salmonella test

Looking to buy a new horse or allow one into your boarding barn? The same thing needs to be followed - chase it around and around and stress it out and collect 5 samples to see if it is positive or not, otherwise you are potentially letting a salmonella shedder into your barn. How many sellers do YOU know of that would be willing to chase the horse you are THINKING of buying around until it is frantic for 5 days in a row to test it for possible salmonella???

Years ago (when this happened) Colorado had just shut down for a few weeks in order to completely re-concrete their barn areas as with every known disinfectant they had at their disposal, they were not able to eradicate the bacteria, so the only solution was to encase it in concrete and start from scratch

So ... what I learned from all of this is that you worry about things that you can actually control. You have NO idea if that horse that just pooped at the in gate beside you and splashed your boot is positive for salmonella, nor do you know if the horse stabled beside you at the show is either. You have no idea if your blacksmith just came from a farm with a salmonella positive horse and that teeny bit of manure on his boot has just been tracked into your barn ... You have no idea if your vet has just seen 1 or 4 or 10 salmonella positive horses before coming onto your property either ... or that new farm that you just bought, or the new boarding barn that you just moved your horse to, you have no idea if there were salmonella positive horses in residence there before you got there either ...

There are also over 200 separate strains of salmonella and most of them can effectively live and thrive through heat and cold cycles. Core earth samples have been taken 6 / 12 / 18 and 24 inches down into the ground over a 3 / 5 / 7 and 10 year period and the salmonella is still in evidence at that depth and for that length of time

So ... I sat down and thought as a stallion owner, if I tell EVERY SINGLE mare owner that prior to them sending their mare to me for live cover breeding, they need to chase it around for 5 days with a bag on a whip and drive it nuts and then test those sprayed manure samples for salmonella, word is going to get out fast that I am a nut case of a stallion owner to deal with and I wont get any outside mares in to breed at all.

Or .. I simply worry about what I can control and do the best I can with those things that I cannot ...

[Pony1]

Thanks again everyone.

I noticed that his poops were much smaller tonight and had a layer of mucus round some of them - I have to think that isn't good. I gave him a flake of alfalfa and a small amount of senior feed (as recommended by the vet hospital). He vaguely looked at them and then just lay down again, looked at his stomach a few times, rolled and then just lay flat.

The thing that is killing me is that they never found out why he is behaving so colicky but in the meantime managed to get him sick anyway.

Did they do a gastroscopy while your horse was at the hospital to check for ulcers? did they send him home on any gut protectants? like ulcergard or gastrogard? the symptoms you mention above are scary and I would be on the telephone to the hospital to ask what you should do or call your vet.

Also as stated by others, more horses than not, have salmonella on board in the gut and there are no symptoms. Stress does upset the gut and allows the salmonella to flourish. I highly doubt your horse caught the salmonella while in the hospital. Most hospitals have strict biosecurity protocols which include testing each stall between horse occupants. Most hospitals as part of the bio-security protocol strip each stall and sterilize between patients. Bio-security protocols are what make stalls safe for each new patient when they are admitted in stressful medical situations.

The coveralls are the thing, also get a rubber or plastic kitty litter pan to dip stall tools and to step into each time you leave the stall, this will add another layer of protection so that you decrease the possibility of spreading the salmonella.

Good luck, and I would use your hospital as a resource to help you through this, they are pros at handling infectious diseases. USE THEM to help you as you take care of your horse.