horse issues

[shellesis]

My daughter just recently got a horse that she is suppossed to use for eventing. When her and the trainer went and looked at her they did not notice anything major. We got her home and noticed she was walking stiff legged for lack of a better word with her back L leg. This was attributed to feet issues because she was way passed due and had to pull that shoe off when we picked her up. The farrier came a few days later and we got her feet done but while in the barn getting her feet done she decided to be stupid and ended up falling on her side on the cement because it was wet. We walked her around after and she seemed fine except for that same stiff walk. The next day she did not want to go in the trailor she had been here a few days at that point and was not quite what was going I think because she jumps right in now. But anyway she slipped again on the wet grass because we had had 2 days straight of hard rain. Long story short she is still walking with that stiff leg but she is jumping, walking fine eating and all other normal things but one of her hip bones is higher. The trainer at first said she maybe an adjustment from falling and I am trying to get a hold of the person to do that but she is also saying she thinks it is more serious and could be neurlogical. My question is has anyone ever seen this and what could it be neurlogically. Like I said she acts fine is a little sore after jumping so we give her bute the trainer has said it looks better than 2 weeks ago. SO what could it be, what is the treatment and will she still be able to get used for eventing after treatment or could this be something that will cause permenentant problems. I know without a vet exam its hard to determine and I am trying to get that done but I wondered if anyone had any ideas or suggestions. She is a sweetheart and has a heart of gold and my daughter will be crushed if this is major and not fixable:(

[CJBean]

The falling down twice concerns me the most, even if it was slippery cement and slippery grass seems a little weird that would cause her to fall like this. It could be neurological, not sure.

But if one of her hips is higher then the other I would definitely call the vet on this. Even if you had an chiropractor work on her I am sure they would want a vet involved as well.

[RiverBendPol]

Good grief, this story leaves me speechless. Please tell me you have had a vet look at the horse by now. "What could it be?" It could be any number of things........The horse FELL DOWN on a cement floor. Have you ever done that? Imagine how it might hurt and I'm assuming you don't weigh 1200 pounds and are 6 feet tall. She's 'stiff' but just the same you're JUMPING her?? Did you happen to have a vet look at the horse BEFORE you 'got' it or did HER and her trainer just have a look? I'm sorry not to be more helpful, but really, is this story REAL?

[shellesis]

This story is real. I have not had the vet out here because I can not get a hold of him. I am doing nothing with jumping or otherwise my daughter jumped her over low jumps last week. The trainer is very knowledgable and has worked with many horse rehab. Yes the vet did look at her before we got her and other than be underweight did not see anything that concerned him! She seems to be getting better but all the same I am getting the vet out here. I am not familar of neurlogical signs and such in horses just humans so I am just asking because I know there are people who do know and I am just wanting more information. I am not asking to be put down or degraded.

[shellesis]

The first time she fell because she decided she was tired of standing to be shoed and wanted to go be with the other horses. The time in the grass she was fighting going in the trailor and basically slipped on wet grass. Both times there was a trainer here and she was not concerned. It was not until last weekend she brought up the neurological part. Mind she only fell 2 weeks ago we have only had this horse for about a month. The cement was not meant for horses to be on so it is very slippery it was actually in the shop not a barn it was pouring rain that day and she is tall and my daughter was not here so when she deciding she was done instead of letting her head go like I should have I tried to settle her down. She is much easier to handle now that I have been handling her and my daughter does most of it so is the horse starts being stupid as the trainer put my daughter knows how to handle her. She has had to relearn her ground manners when we got her.

[Simkie]

This horse needs to be laid off and the vet called. Falling down, even in the circumstances you describe, is NOT normal. It sounds like the horse is likely quite lame and possibly not normal neurologically.

[CJBean]

Is one of the hip bones higher from after these falls or was it like that before her falls? I would think if her hips are out of line before these falls happened that could explain the stiffness.

I wouldn't say a vet needs to be out tonight or anything, but if you can't get a hold of your vet tomorrow I would try calling another one out and have them evaluate the horse, it will give you some answers and better piece of mind with what is going on with her.

[shellesis]

She is not being ridden right now my daughter has been walking her on a lead line but has not ridden her in a week and will not for awile.

[shellesis]

I honestly did not notice the hips before and don't really see it now the trainers noticed it but than again I would not notice something like that unless it was obvious my daughter is way more knowledgeable when it comes to that type of stuff. They said they did not notice it until after she fell and the hip that is the slighest bit higher is the one she fell on. She walks fine,trots around the pasture and everything just has what I would describe as a limp like if our knees are bothering us and it hurts to bend it so we walk straight legged that is what it looks like when she moves but it is not drastic. She does not act like she is in pain or uncomfortable. I do know that the girl we bought her from had a chirpracter treatment on her right after she got her and she was fine after that.

[Milocalwinnings]

If you have been trying to get a hold of your vet and have been unable to do so, it's time to find a NEW vet. I can understand having to leave a message, but I expect a call back THAT day. I'm sorry, but I can't be the only one who is thinking that it shouldn't take this long for you to get in touch with your vet. If he is unable to be reached after this amount if time (providing you have been trying for the past week+), that is ridiculous.

It sounds to me like the horse is lame. I wouldn't be riding the horse until a vet did a workup on her. Or, if you aren't worried about the horse's comfort, at least be worried for your daughters safety. What happens if the horse falls while being ridden? Sounds like she falls more often than what would be normal- something is not right here- and you guys sure aren't making it any better by riding the poor girl.


ETA- reading your most recent post- "she does not look like she is in pain or uncomfortable". Yet a sentence before that you described her as having a limp, like we'd have if our knees were hurting us and we were walking straight. Sounds to me she's in pain!

[Simkie]

She walks fine,trots around the pasture and everything just has what I would describe as a limp like if our knees are bothering us and it hurts to bend it so we walk straight legged that is what it looks like when she moves but it is not drastic. She does not act like she is in pain or uncomfortable.

Forgive me for being blunt, but how do you know she's not in pain? It sounds like you do not have much experience with horses, much less diagnosing lameness. Horses are, by nature, stoic creatures. They had to be--a lame horse was pretty quickly picked off by wolves. I'd say that if you're noticing her limp, she is VERY lame. A limp means that the horse is NOT fine. A limp means that she IS in pain.

[Lieslot]

Firstly a horse has to be in quite some pain before they will actually show it, by being lame or stiff. A horse, being an animal of prey will always hide their pain unless it's absolutely impossible to hide.
So don't assume too quickly the horse is not in pain!

The first time she fell because she decided she was tired of standing to be shoed Was it a hindleg this happened on? The slipping and not being able to hold up a leg and signs of neurological problems, could be a signs of shivers. I'm most likely way off here, but my horse has shivers and will slip and fall on wet footing, he also cannot stand for the farrier, not because he's mean or spoilt or a brat, as some people in the past thought, but just because he 'cannot' do so.
So please think in horsepsychology here, do not apply human psychology.

It's a good thing you are arragning for a vet to look the horse over, something isn't right.

Also even though you had a clear prepurchase vetting on that horse, that doesn't mean the horse was right at that time. My horse passed the vetting with flying marks, but he has shivers and that was not picked up on the prepurchase exam.

[shellesis]

I don't have much experince you are right but the trainer does and is actually an equine vet assistant. She has worked and trained many horses and worked with vets and at the track. I have a horse of my own but I have never had issues like this with him with my daughters horse I basically pay the bills she knows what is normal, and such with her horses at first they thought it was something with her stiffel but because she backs fine and all the tests the vet told her to try that has been ruled out. We have only had this horse maybe a month. The vet checked her out before we bought her and no red flags came up.

[shellesis]

What is shivers? It was a hind leg but she had stood fine on the other side and even on that side for awile but the shoeing took almost 90 minutes and she was loosing patience
This is why I am asking I don't what type of neurlogical issues could have or where to find out I just want to educate myself before the vet sees her so I know what he is talking about if something does show up

[equinelaw]

The reason you are asking here is because you rightfully on some level know your trainer is not helping.

Your horse is lame. A vet will tell you why after doing enough testing to diagnose the problem.

Your horse has been lame the whole time she looked "stiff" You can see it so your trainer either can't see it or wont tell you something about it You know this and thats why you are here instead of calling your trainer.

Stop being defensive and listen to what people are trying to tell you. You do not know anything and they do. Let them help you.

[BornToRide]

Some horses are klutzes and then it could be more. She may have simply slipped because she could not focus. Horses that are on a sugar high tend to have those issues too -they react rather than think. If she's on a low NSC diet that this would not be a contributing factor. In addition she;s new to you, new environment, lacks ground manners so that may play a role too.

I would definitely have a chiro or bodyworker look at her. The stiffness alone could come from a pelvic rotation as you describe. Go ahead and rotate your right hip forward (excessively) and the try to walk a straight line. How will you walk?

She could also have musle issues, such as EPSM, selenium or magnesium deficiency. Would check her out for that as well. If that comes back normal, that I would take a closer look at the joints in the rear.

What is shivers? It was a hind leg but she had stood fine on the other side and even on that side for awile but the shoeing took almost 90 minutes and she was loosing patienceHorses on a diet that is too high in starches and sugars usually have less patience too, so that to me would be another sign that diet may be a factor.

Shivers is associated with EPSM , a muscle disorder where the body stores too much sugar in the muscle tissue which leads to stiffness and in severe cases muscle breakdown, AKA Monday Morning disease or Azoturia.

[shellesis]

Her being a klutz and has new to us us what I attributed it to, She is a chesnut tb and I had lots of people tell me that chesnut mares tend to do things like that. I am not sure I can belive that because she is chesnut has anything to do with it. This all happened within a week of getting when she was still adjusting. She still can be pushy but has gotten much more comfortable with us and comes trotting up to us at the gate when we come down there and fine getting in the trailor now. Has not fallen and is picking her feet up to be cleaned fine.

She is on grass hay, cadence and beet pulp she was underweight when we got her but is gaining weight good now and keeping it on.Thank you for the information. I need to look at the grain better and see the sugar levels and such.

[shellesis]

I think you are right and the more I think about it the more I have realized I have let the trainer have a bit to much control over everything related to this horse including telling my daughter what she should feed her. SO maybe this is my way to step out and say wait a minute something needs to change. I even use the vet the trainer has so I am going to try another one. who comes to the island and I have heard good things about I just called him and left a message. I aplogize if I became defensive to anyone. I am just overwhelmed and concerned not

[Lieslot]

What is shivers? It was a hind leg but she had stood fine on the other side and even on that side for awile but the shoeing took almost 90 minutes and she was loosing patience
Well in my horse's case the left hindleg is worse then the other. We call it his shivers leg. Shivers doesn't have to affect both hindlegs. "Loosing patience", probably because the horse just can't do it.
At first I was told to sent my horse to a horsewhisperer or a specialist trainer to teach him groundmanners. Thank God I never did, poor horse.
The vet that diagnosed him, made it VERY clear to me NEVER to tell him off or get upset with him because he cannot hold up that hindleg. My vet also talked to my farrier and told him not to force him. We use sedation to shoe.

Before I knew he had shivers, this horse would just fall to the ground in the pasture as soon as it was a little wet or snow or slippery, where any other horse would have stayed on their 4 feet.

In further explanation to BornToRide, shivers "CAN" be a subform of EPSM in which case a lo-starch diet will help, but shivers is not ALWAYS a subform of EPSM.
In my horse's case a lo-starch diet does diddlysquat to address his shivers.

Basically some neurological signs running through the horse's spine are disturbed. There is no cure for shivers, you try to manage it.

Please have a vet do a neurological exam.

It could also just be very weak stiffles, or you could be looking at EPM.

Only when all else is ruled out, then you could think about touching up on ground manners.

[BornToRide]

I think you are right and the more I think about it the more I have realized I have let the trainer have a bit to much control over everything related to this horse including telling my daughter what she should feed her. SO maybe this is my way to step out and say wait a minute something needs to change. I even use the vet the trainer has so I am going to try another one. who comes to the island and I have heard good things about I just called him and left a message. I aplogize if I became defensive to anyone. I am just overwhelmed and concerned notDon't apologize - you did nothing wrong. You are just another concerned horse mom who's trying to figure things out :)

[shellesis]

We have not been "working" on her ground manners much she just seems to have settled in. She gets out of the way now when feeding with very little coaxing. She greets us at the gate. Will stand still while my daughter wraps her legs for traveling which after she cut her leg pretty good the first time we trailered became a requirment. She will stand and let you groom her as long as she can see the other horses and overall has become more of sweetheart. She can pick her feet up pretty good without loosing balance or shaking or anything for them to be cleaned and sometimes that takes a few minutes because her pasture has become mud. I just don't know I want to belive it is something that is minor and can be adjusted out or get better as she gets more into regualr work and my daughter will be able to use for eventing come spring. But I am concerned at the same time not only about her and my daughter but what it will cost to make sure that is fixable or its not.

[shellesis]

Thanks

[jetsmom]

Sounds like she is injured. Look up dropped hip. The falling twice isn't normal. And just don't put too much faith in trainers. When I was a teen, I had a well respected trainer. My horse was sold to her to resell, and I boughht a new one. The previous horse hurt itself jumping and was lame behind. She didn't get a vet out and sold her to some non-horsey people, never telling them the horse was lame. I got in a lot of trouble because I told the new owners that the horse looked off, and that they might want to call a vet. Trainer convinced them that the horse was fine. She was obviously off, but trainer didn't want to screw up the sale.

Had another horse that wasn't acting right. Would cross canter, act fussy, etc. I told trainer(different than above) that I thought there was something wrong and was told I was a worry wart, that the horse was fine, and just get after the horse for acting up. I called a vet myself when trainer refused to. Turns out the horse had been kicking the stall, and was really sore from his stifle to his fetlock. X-rays showed mild ringbone in the left hind. Trainer had nothing to gain from me not calling a vet, but merely wanted control, and didn't believe a "student" could possibly know their horse better than she did.

So do get a vet out. And realize that trainers can sometimes have ulterior motives, or not be as knowlegeable as you'd think. There is no license or test required to be a trainer. Anyone that can talk a good story can pass themselves off as a trainer.

[equinelaw]

I think you are right and the more I think about it the more I have realized I have let the trainer have a bit to much control over everything related to this horse including telling my daughter what she should feed her. SO maybe this is my way to step out and say wait a minute something needs to change. I even use the vet the trainer has so I am going to try another one. who comes to the island and I have heard good things about I just called him and left a message. I aplogize if I became defensive to anyone. I am just overwhelmed and concerned not

I think you are right and in your gut know this. You are doing the right thing seeking outside help. Its your horse and your daughter and we know you want to do whats best.

We are not all experts or Vets, but we could see from your first post things were going VERY wrong very fast and wanted your daughter safe and the horse too.

Get an outside Vet as soon as you can. Brace yourself for some expenses as they will have to do many tests.

Keep your daughter off the horse until you know for sure its OK.

When you know more we can tell you how we dealt with the same diagnoses, but you need a Vet and all the fancy diagnostics to get any real answers.

Welcome to the world of being a horse show Mom:) Open wallet, hold breath and ask questions!

[Seven-up]

Good gravy. Please tell me the trainer wasn't the one who said chestnut mares do things like that? You're right to think that's a bunch of garbage. I almost fell out of my chair when I read that.

I think it's doubtful that she's a klutz, although it could be possible. I think the main issue is that she's hurting somewhere. When she fell with the farrier, was he working on a hind foot? That, along with the stiff walk, would make me think about stifles. Did your vet recommend any x-rays during your pre-purchase exam? Was she stiff then?

If it were me, and I hadn't reached the regular vet by now, I wouldn't put the phone down until I found another vet to come out ASAP. Besides probably being hurt beforehand, falling on concrete sure didn't do her any good.

Where are you located? Maybe someone here knows your area and can recommend a good vet. I sure wouldn't wait any longer.

[Acertainsmile]

I agree with calling the vet, a possible dropped hip (I had one for sale with this, and it was amazing at who did NOT notice it, vets included)...

Also test for EPM and Lymes...

I do have a question though, if your not riding this mare, why and where are you taking her in the trailer?

[pj]

I would get a Vet out there. One who actually cared enough to not only return your call but to come check the mare out. IMHO that should be the first thing you do...before calling a chiro., before starting to mess with her feed, etc. Seems to me if she Really has one hip higher than the other that would be the place to start. I don't know who told you the silly thing about chestnut mares but...they're foolish. Good luck. Hope they find what's wrong with the poor girl and get her fixed.

[LoveMyPonies]

It sounds to me like something more than just being a klutz. I had a gelding whose pelvis was so out of whack that it never returned to 'normal'. One hip was always higher than the other, not matter how many adjustments we had done on him. Because of it, he had some stiff days and some good days.
I also currently have a boarder who has been having, what sounds like, similar problems. She called the vet out and surprise! He has a fracture in his cannon bone just below his hock. His lameness is not always apparent. Rather, every now and then he takes an 'off' step. We were quite surprised to find out it was a fracture.
It could also be neuro. EPM is a relatively common neuro issue that can cause horses to act out of character. I knew one who would just blow up, shake, throw his head and had occassional seizures.
Regardless... I would DEFINATELY get a vet out asap to resolve whatever it is. And as for the trainer... most trainers would decline a potential eventer if it seemed off, stiff, lame, etc. Eventing is very a demanding sport and you'll want a horse at the top of its game. Uneven terrain, solid obstacles and several days of competition don't bode well for a horse that isn't quite right. You should always play a part in choosing a horse, regardless of how good you think your trainer might be. Use your intuition.

[BornToRide]

I had a gelding whose pelvis was so out of whack that it never returned to 'normal'. One hip was always higher than the other, not matter how many adjustments we had done on him. Because of it, he had some stiff days and some good days.
Sometimes it takes more than repeated adjustments. Muscles generally cause most of the subluxations by clamping down on one side. If those muscles are not effectively releases, the adjustments won't last long. This is why it is generally better to have a horse massaged first before doing an adjustment, or using a chiro who goes slower to allow the muscles to release more. Unfortunately this often does not happen during an adjustment.

In addition specific muscle toning might also be needed, to even out and strengthen the body for better support. Very seldom is an owner advised of something like this by a chiro.

[shellesis]

I think you are right and in your gut know this. You are doing the right thing seeking outside help. Its your horse and your daughter and we know you want to do whats best.

We are not all experts or Vets, but we could see from your first post things were going VERY wrong very fast and wanted your daughter safe and the horse too.

Get an outside Vet as soon as you can. Brace yourself for some expenses as they will have to do many tests.

Keep your daughter off the horse until you know for sure its OK.

When you know more we can tell you how we dealt with the same diagnoses, but you need a Vet and all the fancy diagnostics to get any real answers.

Welcome to the world of being a horse show Mom:) Open wallet, hold breath and ask questions!

The above comment is so true I am learning quickly.
I do have a call into another vet I am hoping he calls me in the morning.

[shellesis]

When she fell the first time he was working on a hind leg and did say she seemed a little stiffly ( new word to me)

[shellesis]

Good gravy. Please tell me the trainer wasn't the one who said chestnut mares do things like that? You're right to think that's a bunch of garbage. I almost fell out of my chair when I read that.

I think it's doubtful that she's a klutz, although it could be possible. I think the main issue is that she's hurting somewhere. When she fell with the farrier, was he working on a hind foot? That, along with the stiff walk, would make me think about stifles. Did your vet recommend any x-rays during your pre-purchase exam? Was she stiff then?

If it were me, and I hadn't reached the regular vet by now, I wouldn't put the phone down until I found another vet to come out ASAP. Besides probably being hurt beforehand, falling on concrete sure didn't do her any good.

Where are you located? Maybe someone here knows your area and can recommend a good vet. I sure wouldn't wait any longer.

The trainer was one of the ones who made that comment but several others did to and I just laughed it off. If the vet I called tonite does not call me in the morning I am going to call him again. I live on Whidbey Island in Washington state and the equine vets are limited here.

[shellesis]

I am going to look up dropped hip

[shellesis]

We took her in the trailor for a lesson last week that is when the hip was pointed out to me. She has not been ridden since than and will not be going in a trailor anytime soon.

[shellesis]

That is the sad part my intution is telling me this a good horse and a good match for my daughter to use for eventing and I don't have a lot of knowledge of certain things related to horses but I have always trusted my intution and and am starting to question if I made a bad call this time. I hope not and it is just because of the fall or something simple that she can recover from and live a long happy healthy life.

[equinelaw]

We all make bad calls with horses. Its the nature of the beast. You made a good call by finding out info now and not having your daughter eventing this mare without more info.

"stiffy" is not good word. Try stiffness or just stiff. Take my word on this:eek:

You can research all night but there are too many choices and no Vet yet. Look at all the possibilities you have already.

You'll get a Vet out and eventually get answers, but you cant event a stiff horse, a clumsy horse, a lame horse, or a neurological horse. She may just have an abscess or bad shoes.

the waiting is hard, but it sounds like you'll have tome to work on her ground manners and other important stuff while you wait.

I am rally sorry this is happening to you and your daughter. Its hard. We all know. We have all been there.

[shellesis]

Okay so I looked up dropped hip and the description sounds exactly like what is going on and the hip was noticed after she fell which was a "twisting" fall so what I could not find out is if it fixable I do plan to ask the vet to check for that. The treatment was stall rest, ice and anti inflam. I know if this is what it turns out to be it will take awhile to heal but it sounds like it maybe something that can be fixed but it did not come out and say that. It also said that it is common in jumpers which although she has more dressage experince she has jumped as well. SO for those of you out there that have experinced this can they make a full recovery?

[goeslikestink]

My daughter just recently got a horse that she is suppossed to use for eventing. When her and the trainer went and looked at her they did not notice anything major. We got her home and noticed she was walking stiff legged for lack of a better word with her back L leg. This was attributed to feet issues because she was way passed due and had to pull that shoe off when we picked her up. The farrier came a few days later and we got her feet done but while in the barn getting her feet done she decided to be stupid and ended up falling on her side on the cement because it was wet. We walked her around after and she seemed fine except for that same stiff walk. The next day she did not want to go in the trailor she had been here a few days at that point and was not quite what was going I think because she jumps right in now. But anyway she slipped again on the wet grass because we had had 2 days straight of hard rain. Long story short she is still walking with that stiff leg but she is jumping, walking fine eating and all other normal things but one of her hip bones is higher. The trainer at first said she maybe an adjustment from falling and I am trying to get a hold of the person to do that but she is also saying she thinks it is more serious and could be neurlogical. My question is has anyone ever seen this and what could it be neurlogically. Like I said she acts fine is a little sore after jumping so we give her bute the trainer has said it looks better than 2 weeks ago. SO what could it be, what is the treatment and will she still be able to get used for eventing after treatment or could this be something that will cause permenentant problems. I know without a vet exam its hard to determine and I am trying to get that done but I wondered if anyone had any ideas or suggestions. She is a sweetheart and has a heart of gold and my daughter will be crushed if this is major and not fixable:(

did your trianer advise you to buy this horse?
hip bones that are higher than one another is a pelvic floor problem and of which the horse cannot be used for eventing or jumping should be a companion horse only

did you have a vetting? and did your trianer reccomend you get this horse
and did you pay for it,
dont be fooled by so called trainers -- am sorry but a good trinaer would have back up of
support by chosen proffesion ie should be listed as an acciredted trianer or one that proven background of year of expreince in ther chosen disipline

dont just assume that b/o trianers are trianers your post worries me that you havebeen duped-
so get a vet out now,,
then think where the advert was if the horse is not fit for the job that you intended to buy it for and was described as that in an advert then you do have some powers of getting it sorted ie trades describtion act must have simular laws in usa as uk

from what your saying in this post you have brought yourself a lame horse from day one and no amount of work is going to fix a pelvic floor when its out of place and can been seen as such ie one hip higher than the other and to be honest no vet would pass it here in uk as pass on a vetting but reccomend the horse either a companion horse as in field buddy or the horse would have to be pts
sorry

if the trianer brought or told you to buy then again shes/hes at fualt and you might be able to do something if under 31 days as the horse comes under the sale of goods act as a horse is a a saleable commodity

[LetsChat]

Forgive me for being blunt, but how do you know she's not in pain? It sounds like you do not have much experience with horses, much less diagnosing lameness. Horses are, by nature, stoic creatures. They had to be--a lame horse was pretty quickly picked off by wolves. I'd say that if you're noticing her limp, she is VERY lame. A limp means that the horse is NOT fine. A limp means that she IS in pain.

I was once told by a vet, a horse is very lame when you notice the head bobbing. Most people who know their horses can tell they are "off" well before the head goes up and down, at that point, they are SIGNIFICANTLY lame. You said your daughter JUMPED this poor animal after she fell, you are CRUEL, sorry but you are! You should have had a chiropractor and / or vet out and if it took 6 months, which is ridiculous since vets are known to come out for emergency visits in HOURS, not DAYS, then you should have waited months before doing anything with the horse, not oh a little bute and she's ok..... These are ANIMALS!!!! :mad::mad:

[BornToRide]

You said your daughter JUMPED this poor animal after she fell, you are CRUEL, sorry but you are! You should have had a chiropractor and / or vet out and if it took 6 months
I think you are over the top here, back off a bit would you! Suppose she is off on that leg, would the jumping not made it worse? Does not sound like it.
Stiff does not necessarily = lame. Secondly this owner is relying on the trainer for feedback too, since it seems she's rather new to horses.
Third, you have never slipped and fallen and went on to do some sort of sports??! It depends on what happened during the fall! Many horse fall unseen in pastures or on turnout all the time and are still ridden. My horse slid and fell onto his side in the arena once and was totally fine. I continued to work him after.
Only if the horse was three legged lame and jumped anyway, could I possibly agree with you statement!

[WalkInTheWoods]

"stiffy" is not good word. Try stiffness or just stiff. Take my word on this:eek:



I think the person telling her meant weak or off in the stifles - stifle-y :lol:

[shellesis]

She is an accredited trainer and did say she is a good horse. The hip difference did not show until she fell. We did have her vetted. The vet is coming out Tuesday morning to check her out.

[shellesis]

I think you are over the top here, back off a bit would you! Suppose she is off on that leg, would the jumping not made it worse? Does not sound like it.
Stiff does not necessarily = lame. Secondly this owner is relying on the trainer for feedback too, since it seems she's rather new to horses.
Third, you have never slipped and fallen and went on to do some sort of sports??! It depends on what happened during the fall! Many horse fall unseen in pastures or on turnout all the time and are still ridden. My horse slid and fell onto his side in the arena once and was totally fine. I continued to work him after.
Only if the horse was three legged lame and jumped anyway, could I possibly agree with you statement!

Thank you!
That is exactly what the situation was not 3 legged dead lame was stiff and most of the time that is something that horses and people work out of when she did work out of it after warm up and 2 little jumps we stopped and have not ridden her since.

[shellesis]

I think the person telling her meant weak or off in the stifles - stifle-y :lol:

That is what I meant I just spelled it wrong

[goeslikestink]

sorry but i want to clear things up abit


My daughter just recently got a horse that she is suppossed to use for eventing.
a good horse for eventing possible have a jumpers card with points on it
if in uk then bsja bd, def and would possible be a pony club horse for pro novice or intro
novice


When her and the trainer went and looked at her they did not notice anything major.
this is what i am trying to clarified
a trianer is not a vet and does not issue ppe's if the horse was brought with a ppe then i have to tell you it only last for the minute it was done bit like a car and mot
if you drove your car and five minutes after broke the drivers door side mirror the car is then illegal to use so

ppe onlt valid the time they are wrote - not one month after not one week after not one day after but the day it was written on
if the trianer is accredited as you say then she / her will be listed under fei and associted clubs an societes especiaally in eventing
here we have qualifed trianers that are bhsai registered others are either on the international circuit or have been ie acrredtied trianer like pippa funnel, carl hester mark todd john whitaker john smart andrew gould andrew murphy etc ones that have been there and done it all are listed under fei bef, bf bd, bhs bjsa etc etc
and also hold a uk and international qualfication to teach or are uk sports coaches etc etc
google her/his name and see whats she won and done



We got her home and noticed she was walking stiff legged for lack of a better word with her back L leg.

this i took as when you brought the horse

This was attributed to feet issues because she was way passed due and had to pull that shoe off when we picked her up

again when you brought the horse



. The farrier came a few days later and we got her feet done but while in the barn getting her feet done she decided to be stupid and ended up falling on her side on the cement because it was wet.

horses dont just fall over for no reason especailly on concrete , oh dicky boys like pykes break and school there horses on concrete as the horse isnt an idiot and want do hardly anyting when on harder surfaces

you horse has a major issue thats been missed



We walked her around after and she seemed fine except for that same stiff walk

if the horse as i understand stiff when it arrive then fell then still stiff the horse is dead lame


. The next day she did not want to go in the trailor she had been here a few days at that point

you didnt listen to your horse shes in pain and a lot of pain,
your new to the horse world and horses always tell you when they are in pain either by not wanting to do something, or shows up in there way of going ie stiff
or they nap rear buck or bolt spook to advade you

a novice would nesscarily notice a lame horse as they havent had one yet and dont know the difference between head up and going nicely to head down or bobby to one side and if the horse was sore on all four feet diffinately wouldnt notice they think the horse is ok when in truth its not
bad tack bad teeth can cause pain issues same to can bad driver trialiing ahorse if one is new to horses they tend to drive like normal which is the wrong thing to do, you must take care when driving and towing a trialer - ie round corners and traffic and traffic lights as the horse can crash agains the breaching bars or lose its balance all beduase the driver drives to fast and zips round corners or brakes much to late


and was not quite what was going I think because she jumps right in now. But anyway she slipped again on the wet grass because we had had 2 days straight of hard rain.

again grass is a horse natural envrioment
horses dont just fall over for no reason dont make excuses for the horse there soemthing wrong seriously wrong with your horse




Long story short she is still walking with that stiff leg but she is jumping,

why on earth are you riding a lame horse and jumping it its not the done thing and i have to agree with another poster that says its cruel but i also undersatand your novice and dont know stuff yet

you will do more damage riding and jumping said horse and it will cost you heaps more to put right if it can be but i have a serious doubt that this horse has a pelvic floor problem and in which case its not eventing merterail or jumping its a buddy only maybe if to much damage then you might find she has to be pts





walking fine eating and all other normal things but one of her hip bones is higher.


pelvic floor - the horse is unsound and in pain no doubt in my mind



The trainer at first said she maybe an adjustment from falling and I am trying to get a hold of the person to do that but she is also saying she thinks it is more serious and could be neurlogical.


i vote for her second answer-- shes now sort of trying to cover ones back with
her answers she lacks knowledge and she should never have advised you to buy this horse
i have a sneeking feeling this hose was brought with a ppe

that was then type thing not a now type thing hence why you have no vet

you use your own vets and not one of theres or hers you use an independant one that will work for you as a client and not for other parties

My question is has anyone ever seen this and what could it be neurlogically.
doubt its nero logical

horse needs to be in and in stable and stable confinment as shes having trouble standing
if the horse was injured at some point well must have been if one hip higher than the other
and to be honest a good trianer would have notice that straight off. then she needs support via deep thick bed and banked sides in her stable and small meals little and often
and ab lib hay shes need to be comfortable and to be rested up
and not to be used at all, and she needs a vet like now tuesdays to late
vets work 24/7 and have emengency call outs make sure you using a large animal vet and not a dog and cat one
this horse is going to cost you heaps of dosh so you my freind have somew serious thinking to do






Like I said she acts fine is a little sore after jumping so we give her bute the trainer has said it looks better than 2 weeks ago.

who gives her the bute without seing a vet------ this is disugusting to use the horse when its obviously in trouble yet the poor bloody thing is honest enought to work for you
be fair to the horse and respect her the same way she respecting by trying to work on three legs -- good god

SO what could it be, what is the treatment and will she still be able to get used for eventing after treatment or could this be something that will cause permenentant problems. I know without a vet exam its hard to determine and I am trying to get that done but I wondered if anyone had any ideas or suggestions. She is a sweetheart and has a heart of gold and my daughter will be crushed if this is major and not fixable:(

this horse is no way going to do any eventing or jumping shes lame duck and now might be permenant all becuase your lovely trinaer says give her some bute and she will be fine
mate bute is an anti inflamatry and a pain killer its masked the trouble doesnt cure it
and really and truely avet should be the only one to adminster drugs or give you clear directions of usage

your trianer isnt a vet and i can tell now shes not accreidted not if she cant even notice one leg higher than the other and not if she made you buy the horse with a pppe already
shes in for profit as in agent ie gets a % of the sale like most of them do over there

if she buys and sells horses then she working you and gian you as alivery plus a % of salle of the horse

dont be fooled and dont be dumb-- but i thinking you know really dont you

[LetsChat]

sorry but i want to clear things up abit




this horse is no way going to do any eventing or jumping shes lame duck and now might be permenant all becuase your lovely trinaer says give her some bute and she will be fine
mate bute is an anti inflamatry and a pain killer its masked the trouble doesnt cure it
and really and truely avet should be the only one to adminster drugs or give you clear directions of usage

your trianer isnt a vet and i can tell now shes not accreidted not if she cant even notice one leg higher than the other and not if she made you buy the horse with a pppe already
shes in for profit as in agent ie gets a % of the sale like most of them do over there

if she buys and sells horses then she working you and gian you as alivery plus a % of salle of the horse

dont be fooled and dont be dumb-- but i thinking you know really dont you

I agree. I am sorry but the OP MAKES the horse sound lame but then says it isn't too lame to work, works out of stiffness so lets jump but can't stand for long enough to be shod. Horses by nature stand the majority of the day, I have never heard of a horse too tired to stand. Maybe after a 100 mile ride but really, your posts are inconsistent so I am sorry for getting snarky with you in my past post but you have to re-read all that you wrote. From someone who doesn't know you other than what you posted the horse isn't sound for riding let alone jumping and eventing. Now will she be some time in the future, maybe I can't say not knowing the horse but my other response was based solely on your first couple posts and it sounded like more than the two low jumps you are now saying it was. Still, something ain't right with the animal, get to the root of it before it becomes permenant. Good luck!

[shellesis]

Okay let me clarify a few things. First the trainer got no money for this sale. She was not an agent she found the horse her and my daughter went and looked at her and rode her and jumped her and all that without me. SHe was not with me when I picker her up she was at a pony club rating with my daughter being a trainer. I picked her up without my daughter or her there. When they went and looked at her she was not walking stiff legged nothing no raised hip none of that. The vet checked her out a week later and still nothing like that and no red flags that concerned him. When I arrived to pick her up and the person who was driving for me because I was not comfortable enough hauling that far I just learned to haul. Anyway she had lost 3 shoes and had one hanging on and turned around and out of whack it was the daughters horse who had left for college and dad did not have the same compassion for the horse or he would of had her shoed after she lost the first one she was way past due. ANyway so we pulled that shoe off knowing it could cause her to trip because of how loose it was and we had a four hour trailor ride ahead of us. It was after that she started walking stiff on that leg. AS far as her standing for the farrier she had stood perfectly fine up until that point but we were almost 90 minutes into this and she had not been able to walk around which is what horses due. SHe also heard my gelding calling and got spooked at the same time so when she start to pull away instead of letting her have her head which is what I should of done not knowing this I held her head, she got ancier and ended up slipping on the very wey very slippery cement. This is not usually where we do our horses feet we have a grooming bay that is not slippery but at 17+ hands she is to all for that bay and I had not had a chance to figure something else out. SO in reality if I had let her have her head she either 1 may not have fallen or 2 not fallen as hard as she did. I walked her around after that and she walked fine even the stiffness was gone in that leg. A few days later when my daughter was trying to load her she was using a chain by recomandation of someone else. The horse did not want to leave the other horses she had already become attached and herd bound and this was only about 1 week or so after we got her so there was still some trust issues which have since gone away. But she was fighting againest the chain and slipped on very wet slick grass. She has 4 shoes on which she had not had in while if at all so lost her balance any horse would of. SHe did not fall that hard but it was on the same side as she had fallen 2 days eariler on the cement which happens to be the same leg that was stiff the day I picked her up. I have spoken with the vet and he said although he can not say for sure by just talking to me it sounds as if when she fell she hurt herself and the fact the leg was stiff when we pulled the shoe it had probably been that way ( the shoe) for awile and she had been having to lift that leg up higher for a shoe that should have been pulled but he is coming out Tuesday Morning to take a look at her and go from there. SHe is not being right now she stands at the gate looking pitiful because the gelding she has become so attached to is another pasture right now because he kept taking her grain and he does not get grain because he gains weight on air so he is on grass hay only. SO I will know more Tuesday

[Seven-up]

You might try making a new topic asking for names of vets in your area, or even if there's a vet school within trailering distance, since it sounds like you may end up needing x-rays. I can understand how hard it is to get someone to come to a remote area, and I'm not jumping on you, because you got the vet appointment. It's just that Tuesday seems like a long way off. I'm sure it seems even longer to you! All I'm trying to say is maybe with some smooth talking you could get someone to see her sooner. You know, like, 'I'm concerned about a fracture since she fell on concrete' or something like that can get the ball rolling a little sooner.

When you post on a public BB, you're going to have people rant and rave about what you do, no matter what it is. There are people who do bad stuff intentionally, but then there are those who just don't know any better, or they've been led to believe what they're doing is ok. Yeah, something should have been done sooner. But what's done is done, and you're trying to do something now. Learn from it, try to do what's best for your mare now, and resolve to do better in the future.

With horses, sometimes you get screwed on a deal and sometimes bad stuff just happens, even if you have the best intentions. If nothing else, use this as a learning experience. Do your homework beforehand, research trainers, have several vets' numbers on hand, know where the vet schools are (if applicable) and TRUST YOUR INSTINCTS. Just because you're not the most knowledgeable about horses doesn't mean your hunch isn't right. If you suspect something, it's better to be a hypochondriac than wait it out. And this might not be the right time, but I'd take a closer look at that trainer. Accredited doesn't necessarily mean anything.

[equinelaw]

Didn't you say something happened on the trailer ride home too? She got a bad cut:confused:

She was lame when you picked her up, but they thought it was from the bad shoes. So either way she was walking funny before she fell. Is that right?

[chaltagor]

I love this thread so much.

[goeslikestink]

Didn't you say something happened on the trailer ride home too? She got a bad cut:confused:

She was lame when you picked her up, but they thought it was from the bad shoes. So either way she was walking funny before she fell. Is that right?

quite-- read the 1st post - to much going ons on the poor mare and its the mare that suffering yet is honest enough to try her guts out when not well - shame

[Thomas_1]

Trust me, its not the horse that's "being a Klutz".

She's had an accident in the trailer and 2 falls, she had a shoe off and was lame when you got her and is more lame now and you're messing about on an internet demonstrating you haven't got a clue!

For goodness sakes just get a vet out to check the horse isn't seriously injured!

[Bogey2]

90 minutes to shoe the horse? I had a farrier take that long ONCE....never called him again. The horse and I were ready to fall over.

[LetsChat]

90 minutes to shoe the horse? I had a farrier take that long ONCE....never called him again. The horse and I were ready to fall over.

Although that is an unusually long time for shoeing in all honesty that isn't that long for a horse to be standing, maybe for you ;) but truly the horse shouldn't fall down... someone else posted on a different thread about leaving a horse tied over night and another about a horse left in the trailer overnight, obviously they were mistakes and oversights but neither of those horses fell and we are talking 12 - 14 hours, it's just an excuse, a cover up, a rationalization - whatever makes you feel better. Also, why would you shoe on slippery, wet concrete. I don't get that either.... I just hope the mare gets better!

[BSFKimbees]

First of all I just want to say that I am so sorry you are going through this for what I assume is your first horse buying experience. It shouldn't be this difficult, but all too often it is. I ALWAYS recommend a FULL Pre-Purchase exam, everything, especially if you are competing. Not just a flexation, you want X-rays, and a blood sample taken so if ANYTHING pops up in the future you can always go back to what was in the blood at the time of the exam.

It sounds like this horse had issues prior to you buying her most certainly. The rest isn't helping matters and though I disagree with many of the practices that have been applied, I somewhat understand your position.

As mentioned many times though, it isn't normal for a horse to just fall down. I've seen some do this over the years and it's always a MAJOR issue. I also know it seems overwhelming when you start questioning your Trainer/Instructor and all others that are involved, afterall, you just want a happy ending. But only you can make that happen.

What's done is done, but you now need professional help with this. I would start a log, making sure you include EVERYTHING that has happened thus far. Be accurate withyour dates and times. This will be helpful to your Vet.

I wish you much luck with this, honestly I do.

[Simkie]

90 minutes to shoe the horse? I had a farrier take that long ONCE....never called him again. The horse and I were ready to fall over.

Are you kidding?

A horse would perhaps fall over if the farrier had one leg up for 90 minutes at a time. But 90 minutes from walking the horse up to the farrier to walking the horse off is NOT unusual at all. Christ--I just spent 2 + hours with the shoer. That was some chatting, some shoeing and some prepping special shit for the horse.

[BornToRide]

I am really suprised by how judgemental several of the posters here are without ever having seen this horse.


A horse can be "stiff" legged without being lame! I see many horse that move with little knee or hock or stifle flexion that are NOT lame! They are just not flexible enough.
Would a "lame" horse not come up even more lame after being worked and jumped?
Would a trainer, who is also an equine vet assistant, not be able to determine whether or not this horse was indeed "lame"?
Horses can easily fall, especially while goofing around. I watched my horse slip and slide onto his side in the arena, because he was not paying attention and lost his balance. Horses who overreact can also easily slip and fall, that's why I am so against overfeeding with energy rich feeds, because they CAN be a contributing factor to such accidents, along with bolting, pulling back, bucking, difficult to lead, you name it!Don't be so quick to jump to any conclusions and resort to attacking the OP based on your assumptions!

[goeslikestink]

I am really suprised by how judgemental several of the posters here are without ever having seen this horse.


A horse can be "stiff" legged without being lame! I see many horse that move with little knee or hock or stifle flexion that are NOT lame! They are just not flexible enough.
Would a "lame" horse not come up even more lame after being worked and jumped?
Would a trainer, who is also an equine vet assistant, not be able to determine whether or not this horse was indeed "lame"?
Horses can easily fall, especially while goofing around. I watched my horse slip and slide onto his side in the arena, because he was not paying attention and lost his balance. Horses who overreact can also easily slip and fall, that's why I am so against overfeeding with energy rich feeds, because they CAN be a contributing factor to such accidents, along with bolting, pulling back, bucking, difficult to lead, you name it!Don't be so quick to jump to any conclusions and resort to attacking the OP based on your assumptions!


a horse that has one hip lower than the other is not sound - period its pelvic floor iusses and you know that as stated on another thread, by self , ok

[BornToRide]

You'd be surprised how many horses seem to be moving fine with deviations like this - it depends on the degree of deviation.

Many people walk around with on hip higher than the other, without an obvious limp - it is often referred to it as the "shorter" leg. Would you call them unsound or simply suffering from a postural habit, where a lot of this originates?!

A totally agree however that it interferes with normal movement and needs to be addressed, but I would not necessarily label it as unsound, unless a horse is obvious lame when moving.

[Stacie]

What if the horse is "just a klutz"? That would be the last animal I would want my daughter eventing on! Seems to me that a good eventing mount is the horse that slips and does *not* fall down. Cause, really, they *are* going to slip out on XC.
Frankly, I hope you find out the horse has something going on that is treatable and is *causing* the horse to fall, otherwise now you own a klutz.
The other issue is how herd bound this mare is. What a pain to manage for a young person. And now she is using a *chain* to control the mare? Not all horses get like this when they move barns. There are very athletic animals out there that are trustworthy and behave. Your daughter needs to be able to trust her horse. This is starting out badly.
I don't know how much you paid for this horse, but you might want to consider it lost money, find the horse a decent home and look for another horse. That happens sometimes in the horse business and it's a lesson most learn the hard way at some point.
In the meantime, good luck with her and I hope the vet can help. But again, consider whether this horse actually is a good fit and whether you want to spend more money on what could be the wrong horse.

[chaltagor]

A horse would perhaps fall over if the farrier had one leg up for 90 minutes at a time. But 90 minutes from walking the horse up to the farrier to walking the horse off is NOT unusual at all. Christ--I just spent 2 + hours with the shoer. That was some chatting, some shoeing and some prepping special shit for the horse.

I think she meant she and the horse were so bored they were falling asleep? That's how I took it; I had a farrier like that. Nicest guy in the world, but he took forever, was a low talker and talked about the Civil War reenactments he liked to go to and it was just zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[Lieslot]

Well, I still think this horse is LAME not stiff. Remember, hindleg lameness looks a lot different (ie less worse) then a front leg lameness. So to the untrained eye, a hindleg lameness could easily be mistaken for a stiffness issue, where in actual term the horse is just plain lame (ie in pain!)

The OP, should refrain from exercising this horse at all until she has a proper diagnose. My guess, this will sadly cost her a little and X-rays may well be needed.

I thought the OP had a full pre-purchase vetting done, but I know seem to understand the vet probably just had a look at the horse, from which you really can't tell what's up with that horse. So totally agree BSFKimbees, lesson learned : FULL pre-purchase on any horse you buy really, DEFINITELY if you plan eventing. I wouldn't ppe a pasture potato, but if you have plans of competing at eventing level, you need to get a horse properly vetted.

Again OP, please DO take the issue your horse is showing SERIOUS. This is NOT normal for a horse. So take care of her and make sure you have a list to bring up with your vet upon his/her visit.
Get her flexed to start with, perhaps we can help the OP by preparing a list of questions to bring up to her vet.
- subluxated SI-joint
- stifle issue
- pelvic fracture
- neurological (EPM, EPMS, shivers)
- hindfeet balance/trim
- .... can anyone add?

Let's not attack the OP, she came here for help, so let's help her out. I do agree with all others, that I'd be leery of the trainer. Doesn't seem to be a trainer with a well trained eye imo.
Good luck and keep us posted.

[BornToRide]

Good Lord, a horse that overreacts and wears shoes on slippery concrete (or grass)can easily slip and fall! Shoes tend to be more unstable on smooth surfaces and tend to create too much grip in soft ground.

I have seen my gelding slip numerous times on asphalt while walking him down to the arena, dry or not, if he'd move too quickly. It really had a huge affect on how he used himself. He no longer has this problem since he's been barehooved :yes:

I have videos that show how unstable smooth surfaces can be for shod horses.

[Lieslot]

The other issue is how herd bound this mare is. What a pain to manage for a young person. And now she is using a *chain* to control the mare? Not all horses get like this when they move barns. There are very athletic animals out there that are trustworthy and behave. Your daughter needs to be able to trust her horse. This is starting out badly.
I don't know how much you paid for this horse, but you might want to consider it lost money, find the horse a decent home and look for another horse. That happens sometimes in the horse business and it's a lesson most learn the hard way at some point.
In the meantime, good luck with her and I hope the vet can help. But again, consider whether this horse actually is a good fit and whether you want to spend more money on what could be the wrong horse.
Actually Stacie, brings up a very good point here. How experienced is your daughter. Depending on the vet's diagnose, you'll have to consider how much you wish to put in there to get things right and whether she's the 'right' horse for your daughter.
I don't wish to jump to conclusions, because none of us know your daughther and in the end none of us have seen the horse, so we can all easily be overreacting. Nevertheless this horse does sound like it needs more then a beginner. But again, see what vet's thinks on Tuesday. Good luck!

[Lieslot]

I have videos that show how unstable smooth surfaces can be for shod horses. Sure, totally agree, seen things like that myself. However horses still stand on 4 legs, not 2, so to fall because one leg slipped? Dunno, still don't think that's right.

[BornToRide]

Yes, it can of a horse over-reacts for some reason - since this is a possibilty , I'll have to take that into consideration. Seen many horse slip . The fact that she did fall as well, may also be an indication of some excessive [muscle] weakness in the rear, so she could not catch herself in time. It is really hard to say, without actually having witnessed the incidents and having seen the horse move. As long as we do not have all the information, we really cannot simply jump to conclusions and label this horse in any way.

[Seven-up]

Is it possible the horse hurt herself because she fell on concrete? I'm too lazy to go back and read but I thought the OP said she was still after falling. So maybe she's got an issue with stifles or hips or hocks and fell because of that, or just slipped, and now has another issue because she crashed on cement.



I had a horse who, for the longest time, we thought was the ultimate klutz. We'd go around a corner and her legs would just go out from under her. Fast forward to my trainer watching her in the pasture. Horse would gallop, make a hairpin turn, and fall. Get up, and repeat. She was doing it on purpose; she thought it was fun.

Regardless, I agree with whoever said you wouldn't want a klutz as an eventer. But I don't think the OP's horse is a klutz. I think she's hurt.

[craz4crtrs]

I think you are right and the more I think about it the more I have realized I have let the trainer have a bit to much control over everything related to this horse including telling my daughter what she should feed her. SO maybe this is my way to step out and say wait a minute something needs to change. I even use the vet the trainer has so I am going to try another one. who comes to the island and I have heard good things about I just called him and left a message. I aplogize if I became defensive to anyone. I am just overwhelmed and concerned not

Allegra Cadence? or Cadence Senior? If you are feeding Allegra Cadence it is a very good feed. I have been feeding it for a couple of years and my Cushings horse has done beautifully on it. I had tried the LMF Low Starch and he lost weight on it. The Allegra Cadence has been wonderful for him. If you are feeding Cadence Senior, it is probably higher in sugar and lower in quality. It is the Land O Lakes, or Country Farms lower end feeds. Ok, but not what I would feed. Grass hay and beet pulp is good, but if it is Allegra Cadence, it is beet pulp based. How much is being fed?

Sounds like the horse needs a good vet workup, and bute or comparable for a while. Stall rest or pasture rest may be indicated depending on whether the vet wants the horse quiet or moving.

Its hard when you have a child that wants to ride and the horse needs to recover.

[shellesis]

It is allegra cadence.

Just for an update I have not gone through the posts since the other day but the vet came out today. She is sound, is not in pain and has string hold I think he called it I could be saying that wrong. But basically scar tissue from an injury in the past. He said she could be still be used for jumping and such as long as my daughter did not want to take her to the olympics. He is going to call around and do some research and see if there have been any new treatments for it but none that he knew of and he would let me know. This is something that the prepurchase vet should have caught but there was no signs at all at the time and we she was tried out there were no signs. I am also looking to see if there are any excerisises and such that can help but so far I have not been able to find any information on it which I am sure means I am spelling it wrong. This was a very well respected vet that specializes in horses so I would assume he would know what he was talking about.

[shellesis]

She is not a begininer and has much more pateince and luck dealing with situations. She is no longer having to use the chain, the horse has gotten away from being herd bound although she still looks around to see where the other horses are but is content to stand there and graze while we brush her or anything. She let me catch her right away this morning for the vet instead of running aroung being silly. The other day we even had to laugh because my daughter was cleaning the pasture and did not quite get the gate shut so the horse figured out how to open and was going for the grass. It was wet but she did not slip fall or otherwise and after she played around with my husband while he was trying to get for a few minutes she walked right over to him and I and I sware she was laughing and she had not limp or anything.

[enjoytheride]

Do you mean stringhalt?

[shellesis]

She gets grass hay, the grain and beet pulp but my daughter mixes all the grains so I don't want to say how much she is getting and be wrong. My daughter did a lot of research into what to feed her and how much.

[shellesis]

Yes stringhalt I knew I was saying it or spelling it wrong.

[Lieslot]

Worthwhile reading, shivers & stringhalt are somehow related and often mistaken one for the other :
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/58757.html
http://www.bevet.com/Neuromuscular%20Diseases.htm
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2002/August/31/A-new-look-at-equine-muscle-disease.aspx
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers.html
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/lameness/dtstringhalt3803/


Out of curiosity how did your vet diffentiate it for being stringhalt vs shivers?
Does she have the classic stringhalt snatch up, hyper lift, leg to belly action at walk?
Often I have heard vets refer to stringhalt where in reality it was shivers.
Hmmm, so perhaps the stiffness you mentioned earlier, was actually the goosestep walking stringhalt horses do.

[BornToRide]

It is allegra cadence.

Just for an update I have not gone through the posts since the other day but the vet came out today. She is sound, is not in pain and has string hold I think he called it I could be saying that wrong. But basically scar tissue from an injury in the past. He said she could be still be used for jumping and such as long as my daughter did not want to take her to the olympics. He is going to call around and do some research and see if there have been any new treatments for it but none that he knew of and he would let me know. This is something that the prepurchase vet should have caught but there was no signs at all at the time and we she was tried out there were no signs. I am also looking to see if there are any excerisises and such that can help but so far I have not been able to find any information on it which I am sure means I am spelling it wrong. This was a very well respected vet that specializes in horses so I would assume he would know what he was talking about. Good, solid conditioning (like lots of trail riding at a slow pace but over varied terrain for example) will go a long way in cases like this. Sometimes that can mean working through some tightness as well, or in other words breaking scar tissue up. Bodywork can help with that too.

I had a partial hysterectomy and despite the ripping pain in my gut afterwords during certain movements I had to work through that to regain normal muscle function. It was a normal part of healing.

[shawneeAcres]

It is allegra cadence.

Just for an update I have not gone through the posts since the other day but the vet came out today. She is sound, is not in pain and has string hold I think he called it I could be saying that wrong. But basically scar tissue from an injury in the past. He said she could be still be used for jumping and such as long as my daughter did not want to take her to the olympics. He is going to call around and do some research and see if there have been any new treatments for it but none that he knew of and he would let me know. This is something that the prepurchase vet should have caught but there was no signs at all at the time and we she was tried out there were no signs. I am also looking to see if there are any excerisises and such that can help but so far I have not been able to find any information on it which I am sure means I am spelling it wrong. This was a very well respected vet that specializes in horses so I would assume he would know what he was talking about.

This diagnosis doesn't add up. Stringhalt is caused by a nerve issue (and the cause is poorly understood) not scar tissue. However, Fibritic myopathy is caused by old scar tissue (I know I have had both a hrose with Stringhalt and a horse with fibrotic myopathy) and can sort of resemble stringhalt, except the leg does not jerk upwards, but is restricted in the FORWARD portion of the stride and so appears to jerk back. Usually most noticeable at the walk. There are surgeries that can be done for both of these conditions. The horse that I owned with Stringhalt did have the surgery and it cured him 90+%, the only time after the surgery he would jerk his leg upward, oddly enough, was if you crossed a road and he had to step over the yellow line! I showed him both before and after the surgery in hunters and did well with him, but prior to surgery could not do the flat classes becuase his leg would jerk up at the walk (but did not at trot or canter). The surgery was very simple. Fibrotic myopathy can also be surgically corrected with a fairly good success rate. I have a mare with this, it was caused when she pulled back tied to a trailer when a sprikled system went off and scared her, her hind leg slipped under her and she ripped the muscle going down the back of her buttock. I thought about having surgery done, but with lots of work and conditioning it was hard to detect, so much so that I showed him in dressage. Neither one of these conditions is painful, the fat that it did not show up prior to you owning her makes me wonder if one of these falls caused a problem, or caused something she had to "flare up", such as nerve compression in case of stringhalt. I would question this vet further as I feel that either he did not convey things to you properly and you misunderstood, he thought it could be one of these two things, or he really doesn't know what he is talking about (hate to accuse a vet of that, but stringhalt is NOT caused by scar tissue).

[BornToRide]

Many vets are not very skilled when it comes to muscle problems (as in tight muscles and muscle imbalances) - that's when a diagnosis generally makes little sense. Perhaps all this horse really needs is some good bodywork. :)

[Lieslot]

Shawnee Acres, good post. I'm also confused by this vets diagnose.
Hence I'm was still thinking the vet meant shivers but mistakingly called it stringhalt.
But then again the scar tissue doesn't really lead to either one of the conditions. Fibrotic myopathy would indeed have been more in line with scar tissue.

There are surgical options for stringhalt and FM, but I'm not familiar with the succes rate.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/91022.htm

[TheJenners]

Shellesis, where do you ride? You are one of the first people I know in my area who also post on COTH.

[ladipus]

My daughter just recently got a horse that she is suppossed to use for eventing. When her and the trainer went and looked at her they did not notice anything major. We got her home and noticed she was walking stiff legged for lack of a better word with her back L leg. This was attributed to feet issues because she was way passed due and had to pull that shoe off when we picked her up. The farrier came a few days later and we got her feet done but while in the barn getting her feet done she decided to be stupid and ended up falling on her side on the cement because it was wet. We walked her around after and she seemed fine except for that same stiff walk. The next day she did not want to go in the trailor she had been here a few days at that point and was not quite what was going I think because she jumps right in now. But anyway she slipped again on the wet grass because we had had 2 days straight of hard rain. Long story short she is still walking with that stiff leg but she is jumping, walking fine eating and all other normal things but one of her hip bones is higher. The trainer at first said she maybe an adjustment from falling and I am trying to get a hold of the person to do that but she is also saying she thinks it is more serious and could be neurlogical. My question is has anyone ever seen this and what could it be neurlogically. Like I said she acts fine is a little sore after jumping so we give her bute the trainer has said it looks better than 2 weeks ago. SO what could it be, what is the treatment and will she still be able to get used for eventing after treatment or could this be something that will cause permenentant problems. I know without a vet exam its hard to determine and I am trying to get that done but I wondered if anyone had any ideas or suggestions. She is a sweetheart and has a heart of gold and my daughter will be crushed if this is major and not fixable:(


Whenever a horse acts neurological the first thing that comes to mind is EPM(equine protozoal myloencephalitis),wobblers,shivers,or even lyme disease-all of which you should get the vet out asap-especially since she's been falling down-you need to be careful that she doesn't fall or you or your daughter,and before she really hurts herself.

Or-it might be possible that she sustained some sort of trauma prior to you getting her?possibly a pinched nerve?or back/hind end pain? any of which could be possible?

Did you do a pre-purchase vet exam before purchasing her?and do you have a complete history on her? did she race?etc

[shellesis]

Good, solid conditioning (like lots of trail riding at a slow pace but over varied terrain for example) will go a long way in cases like this. Sometimes that can mean working through some tightness as well, or in other words breaking scar tissue up. Bodywork can help with that too.

I had a partial hysterectomy and despite the ripping pain in my gut afterwords during certain movements I had to work through that to regain normal muscle function. It was a normal part of healing.

That is along the lines I was thinking to because I to have had several joint and muscle injures and although I still have some scar tissue the PT did give me some excerisies that help it and make it easier for me to walk correctly.I need to sit down with my daughter and come up with a good conditioning plan.

[shellesis]

Worthwhile reading, shivers & stringhalt are somehow related and often mistaken one for the other :
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/horsecare/1370/58757.html
http://www.bevet.com/Neuromuscular%20Diseases.htm
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/horse-health/2002/August/31/A-new-look-at-equine-muscle-disease.aspx
http://www.cvm.umn.edu/umec/lab/shivers.html
http://www.equisearch.com/horses_care/health/lameness/dtstringhalt3803/


Out of curiosity how did your vet diffentiate it for being stringhalt vs shivers?
Does she have the classic stringhalt snatch up, hyper lift, leg to belly action at walk?
Often I have heard vets refer to stringhalt where in reality it was shivers.
Hmmm, so perhaps the stiffness you mentioned earlier, was actually the goosestep walking stringhalt horses do.

Thank you I will look those up.
Yes she the catch up at a walk it gets better
with the trot and we did not canter because I would not have been able to keep up with her. It is amazing how big of strides a 17 hand horse takes:eek: I had enough trouble leading her at a trot only because I could barely keep up and we were going slow. Thankfully she was being a well behaved sweetheart except when I would let her graze but even then she was just persistent

[shellesis]

This diagnosis doesn't add up. Stringhalt is caused by a nerve issue (and the cause is poorly understood) not scar tissue. However, Fibritic myopathy is caused by old scar tissue (I know I have had both a hrose with Stringhalt and a horse with fibrotic myopathy) and can sort of resemble stringhalt, except the leg does not jerk upwards, but is restricted in the FORWARD portion of the stride and so appears to jerk back. Usually most noticeable at the walk. There are surgeries that can be done for both of these conditions. The horse that I owned with Stringhalt did have the surgery and it cured him 90+%, the only time after the surgery he would jerk his leg upward, oddly enough, was if you crossed a road and he had to step over the yellow line! I showed him both before and after the surgery in hunters and did well with him, but prior to surgery could not do the flat classes becuase his leg would jerk up at the walk (but did not at trot or canter). The surgery was very simple. Fibrotic myopathy can also be surgically corrected with a fairly good success rate. I have a mare with this, it was caused when she pulled back tied to a trailer when a sprikled system went off and scared her, her hind leg slipped under her and she ripped the muscle going down the back of her buttock. I thought about having surgery done, but with lots of work and conditioning it was hard to detect, so much so that I showed him in dressage. Neither one of these conditions is painful, the fat that it did not show up prior to you owning her makes me wonder if one of these falls caused a problem, or caused something she had to "flare up", such as nerve compression in case of stringhalt. I would question this vet further as I feel that either he did not convey things to you properly and you misunderstood, he thought it could be one of these two things, or he really doesn't know what he is talking about (hate to accuse a vet of that, but stringhalt is NOT caused by scar tissue).

No it was my confusion not his. I looked over the report again and the explanation he gave me. It was starting to rain and we were both cold so I looked again and his diagnosis and his wriiten description to me. He did say that it could have been there but the falls just aggravedted it more to where it was more noticible. I am going to try coditioning and such first and if that does not make it better ( I know it will never go away) than we will go the next step and get the surgery but the less invasive one if it works would be better for her surgery has risks.

[shellesis]

Shellesis, where do you ride? You are one of the first people I know in my area who also post on COTH.

I live north.My daughter rides a couple different places and I ride at home and local trails ( I am a western just out for fun rider) what part of the island so you live It is unusual to have posters from the same area when it is someplace like the island

[shellesis]

I did have a PPE and she did not race she was in dressage for the most part and than a few years ago she started jumping.

[Lieslot]

I am going to try coditioning and such first and if that does not make it better ( I know it will never go away) than we will go the next step and get the surgery but the less invasive one if it works would be better for her surgery has risks.
Good idea, just work her as you'd work any horse with a weak hind end or weak stifles basically, so she can strengthen. I totally agree with trying non-invasive. Some hillwork, some cavalettis, regularly backing under the saddle (if the horse can do so, as backing can be difficult for stringhalt & shivers horses).

Both stringhalt & shivers are conditions you don't like to hear, however there are quite a few horses out there that are competing and doing well eventhough they had been diagnosed with either of these conditions.
The key is to get a good level of fitness and keep it up. Consistent work-outs. With my shivers horse, if I dare to give him a week off, it feels like we have lost a year of training.

Good for you & the mare you had it checked out, at least now you can move on and deal with it.
Just one other piece of advice, make sure you explain to your farrier that the horse has stringhalt and that he'll have to be patient with her. Never get upset with her for struggling to hold up a leg, coz these horses truly just can't help it.

Good luck :)