Three members of the Dressage Committee resigned allready today

[freestyle2music]

Three members of the dressage-committee has resigned today.

During the German Master in Stuttgart three members of the DC announced their resignation : Judges Vincenzo Truppa (Italy) and Dr. Dieter Schule (Germany) and rider Monica Theodorescu. The last also told the press that she was interested to become a member of the IDRC.

Theo

Courtesy St-George

FEI-Dressurkomitee: Truppa, Schüle und Theodorescu zurückgetreten
Während in Buenos Aires die Generalversammlung des Weltreiterverbandes FEI tagt und morgen unter anderem über die Zukunft des Dressurkomitees entscheiden will, wurde am Rande der German Masters in Stuttgart bekannt, dass drei Mitglieder des Komitees zurückgetreten sind: Der Italiener Vincenzo Truppa, der für die Veranstalter dem Gremium angehörte, der Richter Dr. Dieter Schüle und die Aktivensprecherin Monica Theodorescu.
Als erster hatte Truppa seinen Rücktritt erklärt. Der Rechtsanwalt aus Mailand hat unter anderem die Europameisterschaften im vergangenen Jahr durchgeführt. Wenig später wurde auch bekannt, dass Dr. Dieter Schüle seinen Posten zur Verfügung stellt. Er sei der öffentlichen Kritik an Richtern, die in den vergangenen Wochen nachdem FEI-Prinzessin Haya das Dressurkomitee öffentlich zum Rücktritt aufgefordert hatte, überdrüssig, sagte Schüle. Auch Monica Theodorescu ist nicht mehr Mitglied des Dressurkomitees, will sich aber weiterhin beim internationalen Dressurreiterklub engagieren.

[Coreene]

Tomorrow should be quite the show! ;)

[egontoast]

better to jump than be pushed

[slc2]

I think some people take the FEI pretty seriously.

[snoopy]

Interested to know just how long Madame W will keep her claw hooked on her job.

[slc2]

With three people gone, the dynamic of the group will change even if she stays. I'm thinking she will wind up still there, but I ain't bettin nothin.

[Andrea_W]

Good for them.

[slc2]

Why good for them? Depending on what's really going on, and what's going to happen, it could be very bad for them, perhaps there isn't any good action any of them can take at this point.

[sm]

I have much more respect now for the people who resigned.

Maybe they'll find new spots, and go on to be truly great members of the international dressage community. No reason why that can't happen...

I don't know what Whittages is waiting on, long ago she should have left saying the vision for running the dressage committee is not the same, and she will welcome and assist the replacement. After all, the President and the Executive Board outweighs a lowly Dressage Committee -- no matter who the organization is.

[MEP]

Wow, can you imagine the lobbying going on in the corridors & behind the scenes!!

[Fixerupper]

Bets anyone?
I'm betting on Princess Haya and the exec committee
(And hoping it's not wishful thinking)
I'm sure that Mme Wittages believes her vision for dressage, present and future, is for the best - but I, for one, am not convinced that what we saw at the Olympics is the best that dressage can or will be.

[slc2]

Actually the president and board do NOT outweigh the committee, in the sense that the committee can only be taken down by the general assembly, the board and president have absolutely no power to tell them to resign. Rules are rules and also apply to people yiou dislike - even Withages.

[Sabine]

Actually the president and board do NOT outweigh the committee, in the sense that the committee can only be taken down by the general assembly, the board and president have absolutely no power to tell them to resign. Rules are rules and also apply to people yiou dislike - even Withages.

Jeez- yeah- we all know that...but if there isn't a committee left- except the chair...it quickly becomes a farce...and this is what it appears to become at this point...Le W- is done!
Time to redo the whole thing..make it like a business- because that's what it is already- or change it to be a non-profit- org- in which case they better appoint a very SERIOUS ethics committee that separates those who do it for money- from those who donate their time and do it for the love of it....point blank!

[slc2]

I think that might be a popular sentiment here, but I don't think it's realistic.

[ridgeback]

Glad to hear they went without a big fight:D

[Whisper]

Withages has officially resigned. http://www.fei.org/Media/News_Centre/News/Pages/summ.aspx?newsName=news-Dressage-resign-21No08.aspx (http://www.fei.org/Pages/Default.aspx)

[DownYonder]

Sounds like MW realized she didn't have the votes necessary in the GA to remain in power. Good for Haya for standing up to her. I hope FEI will now make the necessary changes so that the debacle of Hong Kong is never repeated.

[slc2]

You should be thrilled to know the whole committee is composed of sjef jensen's pals then.

[canyonoak]

This idea that the new ad hoc dressage committee are "Sjef's pals" is not only silly, not only unproductive, not only divisive--it is just plain wrong.

And I am not singling out any one post, so no one needs to take my post personally.'

First of all-- the committee was formed while the heavy infighting was ongoing: ie, there were those who at least said they would support Withages etc., and certainly there were those who said they would not.

ALL people who agreed to serve on the new committee have to --by definition--be people who said they would NOT support Mariette Withages.

I think Richard Davison and Franz Kemperman would be rather amused to hear they are Sjef's close friends.
And somehow I doubt that Alain Francqueville and Sjef go out and par-tay.
Robert Dover certainly has worked with and has known Sjef a long time, but the idea that he is on a committee because of Sjef Janssen is just plain ludicrous.
The U.S. has been screaming for a long time to have more voting rights and input into the FEI power grid.

What all these people have in common with Sjef J. is a different perspective and a different background from most of the former FEI Dressage Committee, which was mostly judges--no matter what other hats they also wore.

OTOH, I'll bet Sjef is raising a glass of something bubbly!

LOL

[slc2]

Well then ask Theo why he said they were all sjef's friends.

[Sabine]

You should be thrilled to know the whole committee is composed of sjef jensen's pals then.

speaks our internationally experienced Slick!! haha!
good joke- if you don't take it too seriously....and that's what I do now...;)!

[egontoast]

Well then ask Theo why he said they were all sjef's friends.


Slc, if you want to pretend to be an Insider on the Big Scene you need to find sources other than internet bulletin boards. Theo likes to stir things up a little and he's quite successful at it! ;)

[slc2]

I was referring to theo's statement that these people are all sjef jensen's pals. He stated that in the first post of one of the threads on this subject.

It really surprised me. Robert Dover, for example, is a very experienced person and I can't see him just blindly following what sjef jensen says, but obviously, there is a lot of 'organizational dynamics' in the fei that none of us - even Sabine and egon - and actually, probably not even theo - know anything about.

It is the opinion of a lot of people, evidently, and not everyone that sees things a little differently from Sabine needs to be ridiculed.

It's fine for you to give a very up-in-arms speech on your opinion, Sabine, but when someone says something that's a different opinion from yours, they need to 'relax' and get ridiculed by you. That's hypocritical.

it really remains to be seen what will happen. I'm sure those who are saying that they think this committee will all be sjef's pals have some good reason for saying so, even if it turns out not to be the case. Maybe they are just worried that things will go that way, maybe they just care about dressage alot and feel strongly on the subject or are discouraged after the problems at the Olympics. That isn't so terrible.

And no one really knows how this will work out, so it's a little early to start attacking people for not agreeing with Sabine, LOL! Keep in mind, too, some people are ALWAYS pissed off at the FEI and ALWAYS complaining about what the FEI does, no matter what they do.

[egontoast]

wow that was Olympic style very complex backpedalling! :cool:

[gladys]

Did I read here earlier that Stephen Clarke was also on the committee? Perhaps I misread something.

[freestyle2music]

It's really amazing to notice how shortsided many people on this board are.

I never said that the new DC consists of friends of Sjef Jansen I quoted from an article of the German magazine St-George.

Jeeeeez learn to read ! specially you SLC2

[slc2]

Sorry theo, i thought that was you saying that, after the quote from the article, I didn't know it was a quote.


"Translation.

The new committee is dominated by people who have a close relation with the Dutch National Coach Sjef Janssen."

Since others were saying your translation was your opinion and not what was actually written in the article, I took it to be your opinion, rather than what was actually written.

But it just comes to the same thing. Obviously, some people think this is true, if not theo, someone else. I don't see any reason for getting all excited about that, let people say that if they think that.

[freestyle2music]

It's really amazing how people can twist and bend things on this forum.
But's believe me it's not only on this forum, there are many forums where this happens.

PEOPLE DON'T READ !

The German magazin ST-George wrote a few hours after it became public knowledge that the DC had resigned and the new DC was installed that most of the members of this new DC had a close connection with Sjef Jansen
<period>

Untill now I didn't give my opinion about this fact on this board, only to my intimate friends.

More and more this whole forum starts to look like a "kindergarten"

[Pommederue]

It's really amazing how people can twist and bend things on this forum.
But's believe me it's not only on this forum, there are many forums where this happens.

PEOPLE DON'T READ !
...

More and more this whole forum starts to look like a "kindergarten"

And you are the class clown.

[Fixerupper]

Interesting that Sjef is being held up as the 'anti-Mariette'.
It seems to me that whatever else he is or isn't, he was in a unique position to take on the Dressage Committee publicly and not be squashed like a bug.

There is no new Dressage Committee, instead the FEI executive bureau has set up a 'Dressage Task Force' http://www.fei.org/Media/News_Centre/News/Pages/summ.aspx?newsName=news-DressageTaskForce-22Nov08.aspx&inc=0

"The Task Force will be in place until the 2009 GA by which time a new Dressage Committee will be elected."

Bullet nicely dodged by the executive bureau!

[sm]

Actually the president and board do NOT outweigh the committee, in the sense that the committee can only be taken down by the general assembly...

Pres and Ex Board outweights the DC in that Pres and Ex Board sets the vision for the org, and are responsible for a healthy, growing, viable organization. If they feel the dressage direction is wrong and harms the company --- the tail (DC) will not wag the dog (FEI corporation).

Yes, it goes to a vote.... Either way, the Pres and Exec Board will ultimately redirect the DC.

[ridgeback]

It's really amazing how people can twist and bend things on this forum.
But's believe me it's not only on this forum, there are many forums where this happens.

PEOPLE DON'T READ !

The German magazin ST-George wrote a few hours after it became public knowledge that the DC had resigned and the new DC was installed that most of the members of this new DC had a close connection with Sjef Jansen
<period>

Untill now I didn't give my opinion about this fact on this board, only to my intimate friends.

More and more this whole forum starts to look like a "kindergarten"

wow, pot meet kettle...:lol::lol::lol:

[Sabine]

Sorry- but I am with Theo here...the St. Georg writing stated something along the lines of
"is SAID TO BE CLOSE TO SJEF"- in other words the folks appointed all had a small/medium/large bone to pick with Le W and thus somewhat ideologically aligned with Sjef who was the only one to openly voice his problem...

Again- of course they won't appoint more folks that are ancient and judges from way back when- they do want the buy-in of the customer- the riding community at the international level and some friggin common-sense for once...now just let's hope they get that drug committee under control...!???

[MEP]

... they do want the buy-in of the customer- the riding community at the international level and some friggin common-sense for once...now just let's hope they get that drug committee under control...!???
:yes::yes::yes:

[Kareen]

And you are the class clown.

*giggle*

[slc2]

Ironic observation, Kareen.

What exactly is the 'philosophical orientation' of Sjef, and how does it contrast with Mariette Withages' point of view?

We have suggested here that Withage's globalization effort was an 'at all costs' thing, reducing the # of horses on a team with some rather bad effects on the judging and strategy of the Olympics, for example.

Is there anything else that previous posters feel contrasts between Sjef J and Mariette Withages?

It was suggested the 'midnight meeting' at the Olympics was to pressure riders to shut up with judging complaints, where obviously Sjef's approach seems to be to be very loud about judging complaints - is there anything else people are referring to?

[sm]

It's really amazing how people can twist and bend things on this forum...

PEOPLE DON'T READ !

The German magazin ST-George wrote a few hours after it became public knowledge that the DC had resigned and the new DC was installed that most of the members of this new DC had a close connection with Sjef Jansen <period>...

More and more this whole forum starts to look like a "kindergarten"

Dear lord, Theo. The INTERIM Task Force is in place, not the new DC. The Task Force will be in place until the 2009 GA at which time a new Dressage Committee will be elected.

Please just link to the source when you *translate* for us, because I know St Georg reported it correctly.

As far as I know the judges' rep hasn't been appointed yet? The alledged close connections of Sjef, who in fact are confirmed members of the Task Force are: Frank Kemperman (NED), chairman and representative of the event organisers; Richard Davison (GBR), riders representative; Robert Dover (USA), trainers representative; and Alain Francqueville (FRA), chef d’équipe.

SCL2, here's a report that answers some of your questions, at least it's what the committee will work on:
http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/fei/2008/resignation-taskforce.html

[slc2]

I read that; I'm trying to understand what exact specifics are underlying the vitriolic hatred here of Withages, and how people feel she is different from Sjef Jensen.

[Fixerupper]

I think 'vitriolic hatred' is a bit strong...
Manipulating a whole sport to suit your own concept (and self-aggrandizement) makes you some friends and some enemies.
I'd like to hear what you think she has done for the sport...using the Beijing Olympics as the apparent end result of the machinations.

[slc2]

I haven't gotten any answers yet, just one generalization piled ontop of another. What machinations specifically and who are her friends she has done these specific machinations for?

[Fixerupper]

Go back and read Princess Haya's open letter...and ask that again.

[Sabine]

I haven't gotten any answers yet, just one generalization piled ontop of another. What machinations specifically and who are her friends she has done these specific machinations for?

The information you are requesting is not available on a public dressage board. You must be either part of a dressage community that is in the 'know' or be a very hard working journalist that knows a lot- such as Oak Canyon. None of these will easily comment on these subjects- because thesubjects are highly political and the knowledge is hard fought for and made up of many gazillion elements of information.....this is by the way-common social conduct 101 and is taught at most every local college....;)

[Fixerupper]

Well said, thank you.

[slc2]

Like many pieces of writing, VERY well written. Except it's nonsense. Utter nonsense.

[egontoast]

Like many pieces of writing, VERY well written. Except it's nonsense. Utter nonsense.


We'll acknowledge your vast experience on that issue.

[Hazelnut]

We'll acknowledge your vast experience on that issue. :lol::lol::lol:

I would think watching events unfold that Princess Haya didn't just fire off that letter without any support. There are many knowlegable people stepping up to take a place on the interim task force. Interesting that a rider was the first to step back from the committee.

My take? We're all doing our best to read between the lines. Anyone want more? Go elbow your way into the inner circle then report back.

[torontodressage]

The information you are requesting is not available on a public dressage board. You must be either part of a dressage community that is in the 'know' or be a very hard working journalist that knows a lot- such as Oak Canyon. None of these will easily comment on these subjects- because thesubjects are highly political and the knowledge is hard fought for and made up of many gazillion elements of information.....this is by the way-common social conduct 101 and is taught at most every local college....;)


The truth and nothing but the truth. ;)

[canyonoak]

www.eurodressage.com

is reporting that the Dressage Task Force is adding breeder-rider-Olympic winner-and mom of Vici -- Elizabeth Max-Theurer (Austria) and "O" judge Katarina Wust (Germany) so the Task Force is adding people not controlled by Sjef, hahahah.

[DJ]

For those of us not reading between the lines as well: are you anticipating that this will change the sport toward a more classic type of training and showing or will it tip the scale totally in favor of the flamboyant front end movements with less focus on the engine behind?

[sm]

are you anticipating that this will change the sport toward a more classic type of training and showing or will it tip the scale totally in favor of the flamboyant front end movements with less focus on the engine behind?

I don't think they even are addressing that issue (hey, a real DRESSAGE issue opposed to wrestling with politics).

I think they are concerned with growing the FEI globally, to do that one needs more equal representation across the board and less incestous affliations. That is what is being worked on.

Already there is not great emphasis on classically correct gaits: I guess the revised tests that are being worked on, and the points awarded there, will be a good barometer of what's "important."

[torontodressage]

www.eurodressage.com

is reporting that the Dressage Task Force is adding breeder-rider-Olympic winner-and mom of Vici -- Elizabeth Max-Theurer (Austria) and "O" judge Katarina Wust (Germany) so the Task Force is adding people not controlled by Sjef, hahahah.

Didn't Elizabeth write an article about the bad judging at Hongkong :yes:

[canyonoak]

<< Didn't Elizabeth write an article about the bad judging at Hongkong ?>>


yes she did!

[Coreene]

This is not something that just popped up, it had been brewing for a very long time.

[Fixerupper]

For those of us not reading between the lines as well: are you anticipating that this will change the sport toward a more classic type of training and showing or will it tip the scale totally in favor of the flamboyant front end movements with less focus on the engine behind?

Agreed that most of the mandate addresses political issues but the wording is interesting:

[ - issues surrounding the very significant area of the training and development;
- fitness for purpose of the method of judging Dressage;
- competitions needs thorough review – both in terms of the number of judges, their positioning and the judging process;]

for me it also alludes to the type of performances that are being rewarded and possibly a review of where the sport should be heading...

As has been said - a long time coming - but exciting nonetheless

[sm]

Agreed that most of the mandate addresses political issues but the wording is interesting:

- issues surrounding the very significant area of the training and development;
- fitness for purpose of the method of judging Dressage;
- competitions needs thorough review – both in terms of the number of judges, their positioning and the judging process;


And it comes not a moment too soon regarding our own wayward USEF DC ---- and the proposed Qualification Standards.

I wonder what the USEF DC is thinking now... still jam this sucker down everyones' throats even though it's obvious their plan will not succeed? Or take a closer look at why the alleged problem is generated in the first place, address more fundamental judging and training issues, and follow the FEI's lead here?

Oh, but wait, could it be the bright individuals at USEF still think 50% is not sufficient and they need to over write and correct the FEI 50% rule to magically create better riders...

[Fixerupper]

Funny that they are going after the "details' of the European systems and not the fundamentals..
That system could never work in North America however...not 'democratic' enough (note small d democratic ;) )