Hunt Ball Attire for Men

[altjaeger]

The invitation indicates that it's not super-formal just "frock and stock" or "blazer and bow". What do those terms mean? :confused:

[Xctrygirl]

A frock Coat with a stock tie or

A coat with bow tie. I read that to mean a tuxedo. But thats what the hunt balls were like for me.

Anyone else??

~Emily

[altjaeger]

I guess I'm not clear on what a frock coat is. I've google-imaged the term but got back a number of different things. It's not a regular hunting coat is it -- that would be too simple!

[Equibrit]

Sounds a lot like tea on the lawn!

[Beverley]

Ya got me, I've never received a hunt ball invitation containing those terms.

They were, back in the day, white tie, scarlet if convenient. More lately, black tie, scarlet if convenient (though scarlet is actually the moral equivalent of white tie, black tie being down a peg).

I guess I would interpret 'frock and stock' or 'blazer and bow' to be further on down the dress attire list. 'Informal' is of course business suits for men. Blazers, well, that's casual by traditional dress standards. But if my 'date' is wearing a blazer or business suit I'm for darn sure not wearing an evening gown! Frock and stock is hunting attire, and One Wouldn't wear hunting attire to a ball.

Sigh. Just get the guy to rent white tie, and dress to the nines, and enjoy that experience. It's too rare these days.

[Elghund2]

I just usually were a tux with black tie. That would be safe.

You could always ask a hunt member for advice.

[Ashby]

The invitation indicates that it's not super-formal just "frock and stock" or "blazer and bow". What do those terms mean? :confused:

Why don't you just call the hunt secretary and ASK what she meant by those cutesy terms?

Really, it's not a ball if people are showing up in blazers! and half the pleasure of going to the hunt ball is seeing how beautiful and glamorous everyone looks when not covered with mud.

[wateryglen]

Just coat & tie? both phrases mean that to me I guess.....But I'm betting overdressing with a tux would be fun. James Bond-like! Awww..come on...go for it!! :winkgrin:

[Tamara in TN]

http://productionacres.com/photo_gallery.htm

pic #10 was us in 2004 with the Tennessee Valley Hunt...as I recall the Brits were visiting as well and you had kilts and uniforms and all sorts of wonderful things...

best

[JSwan]

Tamara - that photo is great! (as are all the others). A tux and a cowboy hat - I love it!:) Move over, James Bond!

wanabe - I'm sure you'd look just fine in a tux. Simple and elegant. You have western riders in your hunt, right? Maybe the language in the invitation is meant to reflect that, and to make western riding members not feel they have to go out and purchase english style formal hunting attire/scarlet just for a ball. I'd not go to the considerable expense of purchasing a hunting frock just for a dressy "civilian" occasion.

I hope everyone has a great time!

[altjaeger]

Beverley, I AM the guy! And with the economy in melt-down I've adopted a bunker mentality and won't go if I don't have in my closet what I can wear (and I don't own a tuxedo).

I have emailed the ball hosts back and he (and she) don't answer -- maybe they will eventually.

Jessica, we actually have no Western MEMBERS -- just some occasional cappers.

I thought he was using terms that would be familiar to those in the hunting forum, but apparently not!

[JSwan]

Since it's a bit less formal just wear something nice and dressy unless the folks in your club tell you different. I'm sure they'll answer eventually.

Have fun!

[Ravencrest_Camp]

Ya got me, I've never received a hunt ball invitation containing those terms.

They were, back in the day, white tie, scarlet if convenient. More lately, black tie, scarlet if convenient (though scarlet is actually the moral equivalent of white tie, black tie being down a peg).

I guess I would interpret 'frock and stock' or 'blazer and bow' to be further on down the dress attire list. 'Informal' is of course business suits for men. Blazers, well, that's casual by traditional dress standards. But if my 'date' is wearing a blazer or business suit I'm for darn sure not wearing an evening gown! Frock and stock is hunting attire, and One Wouldn't wear hunting attire to a ball.

Sigh. Just get the guy to rent white tie, and dress to the nines, and enjoy that experience. It's too rare these days.


Way back when, a tuxedo was considered informal, formal attire being white tie and tails. ;):D

But these days everything is getting more casual. :no:

[SteeleRdr]

Way back when, a tuxedo was considered informal, formal attire being white tie and tails. ;):D

But these days everything is getting more casual. :no:

I believe "The Hunt Ball," that happens after the Maryland Hunt Cup, is still white tie only.

As for other hunt balls, I have seen mostly tuxes, some white tie, some black, very rarely (if ever) have I seen a suit. I have seen women getting a bit more relaxed on attire, wearing knee length dresses and just throwing their hair in a ponytail. I, however, kind of like being able to get fancied up sometimes, and like the floor length dresses and the make-up and "fancy" hair (which for me is usually curled, or if I really have time, done by a friend in an updo).

[Tamara in TN]

Tamara - that photo is great! (as are all the others). A tux and a cowboy hat - I love it! Move over, James Bond!

he can be very sexy when he wants to...as a friend says we "clean up" nice...but it's the rare occasion for sure:lol:

[Beverley]

Beverley, I AM the guy! And with the economy in melt-down I've adopted a bunker mentality and won't go if I don't have in my closet what I can wear (and I don't own a tuxedo).



Yeah, sorry, so I perceived after I hit the send button. And I do feel your pain on things economic. So I am going to say that your presence at the ball is more important than your attire, given the vagaries of the invite. Don't worry about an answer from the hosts. Got a blazer? Got a bow tie? If yes to the first and no to the second, well, THAT doesn't cost much (I will hold out for a real bow tie, not a clip-on, and don't tell me I'm gonna have to come down there and teach you how to tie it), then go for the blazer and bow and you will, in fact, be in full compliance with the turnout specifications on the invite. If when you get there you have any qualms, just make sure everybody gets well lubricated, they won't remember anything anyway.:)

[Romany]

Sounds a lot like tea on the lawn!

Very true. Pimms, anyone?

(isn't that order of dress called "planters' order," and meant for daylight only?)

[Good Old Sledge]

It's not just hunt balls that now have indecipherable dress codes. Fashion fora all over the web are filled with "What do you think this means" threads from those who have received invitations from creative but ill-informed hostesses.
Since they seem to be wanting less formal, "blazer and bow" sounds like a faculty function - tweeds, cords, wing tips and bow ties. I can't imagine anyone wearing a frock coat (which is cut different and is more formal than a traditional hunt coat) to a dinner of any kind - we even exchange those after a hunt for tweed when we go to breakfast!
There is no shame in over dressing for what should be a formal event.

[Tamara in TN]

It's not just hunt balls that now have indecipherable dress codes.
There is no shame in over dressing for what should be a formal event.

and as I recall from formal manners,if one does show up REALLY overdressed the hostess is to make them comfortable by saying "wow you are going to a really nice affair once you leave here" :)

I think it's be hard to overdress for a "ball"....it is after all a grownup dressup party :)

best

[Major Mark]

Hmmmm, I haven't worn pants to a Hunt Ball in years....

Usually the Kilt outfit Black Tie equivalent (black Argyll with bow tie). One year I wore the White Tie outfit (high neck Montrose with lace tie and cuffs) but it seemed to scare the hell out of people and people sorta avoided me that night...well, it could have been the formal wear Dirk (short sword) hanging on my belt. Yup, I love formal wear that features the wearing of weapons.


/before that I wore an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time...

[Romany]

Hmmmm, I haven't worn pants to a Hunt Ball in years....

Usually the Kilt outfit Black Tie equivalent (black Argyll with bow tie). One year I wore the White Tie outfit (high neck Montrose with lace tie and cuffs) but it seemed to scare the hell out of people and people sorta avoided me that night...well, it could have been the formal wear Dirk (short sword) hanging on my belt. Yup, I love formal wear that features the wearing of weapons.


/before that I wore an onion on my belt, which was the style at the time...


"lace tie" - a jabot, you mean, surely? Maybe they were spooked because they thought you were BPC, come back to haunt them. :cool:

[altjaeger]

I finally got an email response from the host, but, ha!, I still need help interpreting!

Since our home is more austere than some hunt ball venues, we suggest the gentlemen forgo their scarlet tails. However, should you want to wear your frock coat, Melton, or rat catcher as your coat with a tie then you will likely fit right in.

Based on this, I am thinking that he wants us to wear something hunt-related, but not the normal formal hunting jacket.

[Beverley]

I would take that to mean he DOES want you to wear your hunting coat, since the types of coats he mentions are only for hunting.

[altjaeger]

Well, most of us at my hunt don't wear frock coats, or Melton coats, (and not ratcatcher for most hunts), is what I meant. The "normal" formal hunt jacket isn't called a frock, is it? I thought that is a longer style, but not sure. But I gather he would prefer something less formal, even, than a regular suit, (ratcatcher) as long as it is hunt-related. Equibrit would be horrified -- might as wear shorts, LOL.

[JSwan]

People in your hunt do wear a frock or hunt coat. There are basically only two types of coats worn in foxhunting. (I won't go into the shad/weaselbelly thing)

The one commonly referred to as a "Melton" is a black standard 3 button hunt coat (same style as hunter/jumper). "Melton" is actually a type of fabric, not a style of coat. I would hazard a guess that most of your members in an English riding habit are wearing a hunt coat, and in your climate probably a light or medium weight Melton fabric; or perhaps a synthetic fabric. (I think you have mild winters, right?). It also has pockets on both sides.

A hunting frock is a different style; a different cut entirely. They are worn by members who have earned colors. (I think this can vary so others may want to correct me on that point. They are much more expensive (around here a new one can sell for 500-600$) and can be found in a cavalry twill fabric or different weights of Melton fabric. They can also be found in scarlet for staff or gentlemen members. Black or navy blue for ladies.

If you want an easy way to tell, check out the waistline. If there is a seam around the waistline of the coat - it's a hunting frock. There is a pocket on the right (outside).

Ratcatcher is an entirely different riding habit, and is worn for cubbing only. This is usually a lightweight wool hunt coat in a tweed or patterned fabric in autumn colors. (browns, golds, greens, etc.) The jacket of this habit is also worn to hunt breakfasts or teas after hunting, as it would be rude to wear your mud splattered frock or hunting coat in to someone's house. (you also remove spurs and clean your boots off)

This is just a nice party. Wear a nice sporty blazer, slacks, shoes, and a nice tie. Like a really nice dinner party. Have a great time.

If you want to see what different cuts of coats look like, here is a link:

http://www.foxhuntingshop.com/catalog/Coats_for_Foxhunting.html

It's very simple.
A black or navy hunt coat for the formal season, a frock for staff (scarlet) or members with colors (black or navy) for the formal season, and hacking jackets/tweed hunt coats for all members for cubbing.

[altjaeger]

Thanks.

Actually I had consulted that website before posting.

I hunt in a tweed jacket on ratcatchers and what that site refers to as "a hunting jacket" for formal hunts. Since this is lightweight wool, I assume it is NOT a Melton, right? Melton is a heavier wool. (?)

[JSwan]

Have you ever seen felted wool? There are all types of weaves - but Melton fabric is almost felted. It's not like normal fabric - there is no weave that you can see. It's very very tightly woven.

Regular fabric unravels when you cut it - Melton does not unravel. It has a nap to it, unlike regular fabric. It's not the thickness that defines it - it is the method of creating the fabric itself. It's water resistant and very heavy duty tough fabric.

It also used to be used in military uniforms going back hundreds of years - but I don't know if that is still true.

It sounds like your current hunting jacket is not a Melton fabric - just a lightweight wool fabric, and your hacking jacket is a tweed.

I have a WWII greatcoat in my hall closet (USN). It belonged to one of my grandfathers. I'm not sure it's a Melton fabric - but if not it's pretty close.

[altjaeger]

Okay, let me ask another question (not really related to the ball attire question, since I'm clear on that).

When someone says a "melton" do they mean an actual melton fabric coat, or has it become a generic term for formal hunting coat?

[SidesaddleRider]

Melton means... melton. I've never heard it used to refer to anything else but material (and things other than coats are made of melton).

Hunt coats are hunt coats, frocks are frocks. Both are usually made of melton (either light, medium, or heavy weight), but again, I've never heard them referred to by that (personally, that would be very confusing for me if someone did that, as I'd have to say, which melton? We've 5!). ;)

[altjaeger]

Thanks!