Fixing Late Changes

[Cotner]

I'm looking for advice, excercises, techniques, etc. for "fixing" changes on a horse that consistently changes late behind. The horse I am working with is quite hot and likes to leap in the changes, throwing his front-end and changing in front first. His canter and counter canter are well balanced and he has plenty of jump. The changes were started by asking for simple changes and then the flying change from counter canter to true canter. He understands that he needs to change, he just leaps into it in front. I have tried various techniques including holding him in front to try to control the leaping. Any advice would be appreciated.

[slc2]

What does your trainer say you should do? He or she is there and can see what's going on and is really in the best position to advise.

If the horse is taking a big leap in front that's the first thing to fix and can be fixed in the walk canter changes. It is a common problem so I have run into it too. It is very important that the horse doesn't start out by taking a big huge step with his front legs, that he just starts by making a 'baby change'. Work on the walk canter transition to get control of the first step.

If a horse is late behind often it is because he is too sprawled out to make a good change, and getting him more collected (withiout losing the bound in the canter) can help. Much of the time horses that change late are crooked and are later or more late or more frequently late, on to the side that has the flatter canter lead so 'fixing the leads' so they are the same or closer to the same can help as can straightening work, so doing counter canter with counter flexion, doing shoulder in, getting the horse straighter can help.

[smithywess]

Try to use less hand.

[slc2]

That can make the horse more sprawled out, more crooked, more off balance. Horses don't always change late because people are over using the reins.

[PiaffeDreams]

Try these:

Canter 1 step true lead, walk, canter 1 step counter lead, walk, canter 1 step true lead, walk, canter 1 step counter lead.... I ride these down a long side, walk through the short side. Best if done on quarterline too so you have full control of the shoulders.

Try asking for the change immediately after a schooling pirouette. Turn onto a short diagonal and then ask right away. (if he's not working on pirouette canter, start there as it teaches them to activate and get quicker behind as they sit)

Do as above but, halt, sit for a moment, then canter on in new lead. Get him to wait for your aids.

It should go without saying that the horse should be making these transitions even the very rapid ones off your seat.

[J-Lu]

Try to use less hand.

This is excellent advice. Often, horses changing late behind is due to tension in the back, lack of true engagement, lack of strenth or lack of understanding - none of which is foreign to a horse just learning the changes. Holding the front end, as you describe, can make the horse tense in the back and hind end. You want to contain energy through half-halts and maintain contact, but never hold a horse upfront or restrict him like that in a movement that requires relaxation and engagement to do correctly. Otherwise, he might anticipate the feeling of being "trapped" and get tense when he thinks of changes. Slc2, politely refrain from commentary on peoples' good advice to the OP. The OP is asking for everyones advice and will ultimately decide what is best for her/her horse.

Is your horse just learning this? If so, I'd suggest focusing on the hind end. You want to ride him collected but *forward* through the changes. This is an *active* and collected canter. When you are ready, calmly (this means you!) ask for a change with steady contact and a quick half-halt on the new outside rein. Who cares if he leaps in front - all you want is a simultaneous change behind. When you get that - praise and stop! Get off. DO NOT REPEAT. Let him understand that changing = big reward. That's step 1. Step 2 comes later...and is a more controlled change, which will happen as soon as he realizes he's not "trapped" and he understands the mechanics. Step 3 is the finished product.

Are YOU getting tense anticipating this response? Another alternative is to get someone who knows how to school changes to school them on your horse.

Some horses get very tense and take longer to figure changes out. It is no big deal and doesn't relate to the quality of the horse. But patience on the part of the rider is the key. When they get it, they get it.

Good luck!
J.

[lstevenson]

It's usually a sign of lack of sufficient engagement behind. How are your simple changes through the walk?

[molliwog]

It's usually a sign of lack of sufficient engagement behind. How are your simple changes through the walk?

What lstevenson said.
If the horse won't do a good simple change and stay straight, through, and honestly connected, and half-halt, your flying changes can get messy. Holding in front is only going to make the horse crooked, and stiff, and the problem will get worse. The horse has to be willing to half halt from your seat, not from your hand to get a good change.

I've seen horses that can canter and counter canter beautifully because they have god-given beautiful gaits and natural balance. If the horse braces or ignores the half-halt, you are gonna have issues....

How does the horse do when you ask for 3 steps counter canter, simple change, 3 steps true canter, simple change then back to counter canter- either on a circle or on a straight line? If I am teaching changes to an "older" horse- 5 or 6- I feel that they have to do this exercise well on both straight and bending lines, or the changes will never be consistently clean unless you are lucky.

[bthatasitmay]

There is a very good video here:
http://www.barnmice.com/profile/JaneSavoie
that addresses this problem with a very helpful exercise.

[mmt]

The pirouette exercise works sometimes by adding engagement if the issue is that the horse needs more carrying power and "sitting" behind, while maintaining the good activity in the canter. He may not be strong enough yet for this exercise since it won't work if the horse gets slow behind.

Therefore, instead, if the horse does not fear the whip, you can do that and other exercises using the whip on a big circle or the straight to help add energy and get the horse quicker behind as long as the horse does not run through the hand such that the feeling is that he is changing behind to start the change with the energy going back to front.

If he starts running through the hand, the walk canter/counter canter exercise to get / keep him light and balanced is great to develop proper obedience to the aids and to get him more confident if that is ultimately the problem.

It will probably take some time to get the more engagement and having him really obedient to the aids (sitting, quick behind and waiting in front with a soft rein) before you go back to trying the flying changes. However, the time pays off since this work and the obedience to the aids is the same you will need for all the upper level movements.

[slc2]

No, actually, J-Lu, I think it was a good response, and that late changes are not ALWAYS due to using too much rein, and I won't kindly refrain from saying that sometimes, 'less hand' is not the right thing to do. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, depending on the source of the problem. For example, a few months ago, a friend of mine showed me her big lollopy heavy fronted, big long necked warmblood that lays on her hand like a freight train, and gets so sprawled out and long that he can't possibly make a clean change. Her instructor has shown her she needs to work on the half halts, and get her horse more gathered together, and then he can make a clean change, she has to keep him very lively and bounding at the same time and it's a tough balancing act. She works the changes by doing canter walk transitions that are very straight, and working on her half halts, no, not hauling away on the reins with all her might, not 'more hand' in that sense, but she is definitely not floating him, she is very busy, with her hands very active but very, very clever and light, and practically half halts one right after another, with her leg, seat and yes hand, the half halts and the balancing work are crucial for the horse with a heavy front end.

In other cases the horse is crooked. I had one horse that his leads had never been 'fixed' and he often made, not a late, but a slow change behind in one direction, and the fix was to straighten him - again, not hauling away on the reins with all one's might, not 'more hand' in that sense, but alot of position, alot of bending, and again, difficult to combine with out the forward.

It can be said that the solution is almost NEVER 'less hand', but a more educated hand that is more effective, that gives at the right times, the right amounts, and isn't just fixed or rough or punitive, but educated. There is that moment in the change when the rider has to let the new hind leg come through and if he's tense and holding the reins without that sensitivity, that's going to be 'too much hand' right at that moment but there is a preparation and setup for the change that has to be correct.

[Kathy Johnson]

There are so many causes that finding the one answer is tough. But it always boils down to the quality of the canter. Here are some diagnostic questions:

1. does he do the same thing in both directions, or is one side better? If he is worse on one side, it indicates a crookedness issue.

2. Is the horse keeping the moment of suspension in canter? If the horse is overly collected, and loses the suspension, he can physically only change in front first, due to the footfalls of the canter. Do forward and back exercises to maintain jump and suspension.

3. are you opening the doors on the new inside, so he can jump through?
This involves releasing the new inside rein during the change. If rider takes on the inside rein to initiate a change it invites the horse to change early in front, which is a bit different than late behind.

4. Is your outside leg initiating the change? Your outside leg points to the leg you want to canter first. Horses new to the changes or who have learned incorrectly aren't going to get the seat aid yet. Be sure you are clear.

5. Is the horse listening to your new outside leg? If the horse is ignoring the outside leg, you may need to return to other lateral exercises to ensure prompt obedience.

6. Is the horse changing with your leg or late to the leg? If he is changing but a step or two AFTER you ask, return to number 5.

[JRG]

I have something to add. Once you have fixed the quality of the canter, How is your seat? Are you anticipating the leap, and holding or restricting with your seat. Make sure you are soft through the hips to follow the change without binding down the movement.

[oldbag]

There is no easy answer to this. There is no one size fits all either.

Some horses find changes easy but many don't.

Horse with appalling crooked, flat or four beat canters can often do correct changes whilst horses with good canters sometimes can't.

Keep trying - leaping in front isn't too bad a problem usually and hot horses are easier to cure than cold ones.

Try changing from true canter to counter canter in the middle of the long side. It sounds simple but often works.

It's impossible to tell you too much without seeing you ride though.

[fsf]

Most excellent tips, Kathy Johnson :yes:. My mare also used to leap while learning the changes and I found that while improving the quality of canter with work on transitions with-in the canter, and cantering the box (quarter pirouettes) helped provide the biggest breakthrough, also being really being conscious of riding very, very straight and giving with the fingers of the new inside hand so as not to block the new inside hind leg were also extremely important for us. It's also important to ride quietly and not throw your body around, so as not to interfere with your horse's balance. Sometimes just being diligent and taking your time makes a huge difference too. Good luck!!!

[goeslikestink]

This is excellent advice. Often, horses changing late behind is due to tension in the back, lack of true engagement, lack of strenth or lack of understanding - none of which is foreign to a horse just learning the changes. Holding the front end, as you describe, can make the horse tense in the back and hind end. You want to contain energy through half-halts and maintain contact, but never hold a horse upfront or restrict him like that in a movement that requires relaxation and engagement to do correctly. Otherwise, he might anticipate the feeling of being "trapped" and get tense when he thinks of changes. Slc2, politely refrain from commentary on peoples' good advice to the OP. The OP is asking for everyones advice and will ultimately decide what is best for her/her horse.

Is your horse just learning this? If so, I'd suggest focusing on the hind end. You want to ride him collected but *forward* through the changes. This is an *active* and collected canter. When you are ready, calmly (this means you!) ask for a change with steady contact and a quick half-halt on the new outside rein. Who cares if he leaps in front - all you want is a simultaneous change behind. When you get that - praise and stop! Get off. DO NOT REPEAT. Let him understand that changing = big reward. That's step 1. Step 2 comes later...and is a more controlled change, which will happen as soon as he realizes he's not "trapped" and he understands the mechanics. Step 3 is the finished product.

Are YOU getting tense anticipating this response? Another alternative is to get someone who knows how to school changes to school them on your horse.

Some horses get very tense and take longer to figure changes out. It is no big deal and doesn't relate to the quality of the horse. But patience on the part of the rider is the key. When they get it, they get it.

Good luck!
J.

adding to j lu thoughts as i agree with her if one doesnt understand the use of the hands and how it effects the horses way of going then read this link

http://www.meredithmanor.com/features/articles/faith/fixing_bit_evasions.asp

and as it goes hand in hand and due to bits and hands and way of goings i will ad this link lwhich tells you and has working diagrams of how bits act in a horses mouth
http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php#kineton

then i will add my l link of which its all relevent to working the horse on the flat and using the half halt stride and before you can attempt to make sure your stirrups are correct lenght as this effects your position and they way of going with your horse

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=173434&highlight=leaning+in+the+saddle

follow all above links by me as it all relevent in how your riding your horse
and read all links quoted in the links mentioned as this will help you and within the last link quoted above follow mine and i also explain how to perform the half halt stride which is your best freind along with the trot pace
e

[Jane Savoie]

Thanks for posting my video, Bethatasitmay...but the OP might find this other video more helpful. We used these 2 exercises to help this mare do clean changes. She came to us often changing late in one direction. The renvers exercise was particularly helpful for her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCpT_4bHoY0

Good luck!

[Valentina_32926]

My mare is learning changes - they were clean & are now late. :no:

The problem is 2 fold:

#1 she appears to be in front of leg (when trainer is watching from ground) but when trainer got on her found it was not so.

#2 HH's not going through. Fixing #1 takes you 90% of the way to fixing #2.

When #1 & #2 are fixed her changes are clean. :winkgrin:

[GreekDressageQueen]

I have the same issue with my gelding changing late behind going R to L. We tried everything and checked everything and the only thing that seems to make a difference is when I sit very deep (with my back almost tilted back beyond vertical), then I put him in a very deep, round position, and then I brush my leg against his side in a sweeping motion (which looks silly to me but it raises his back and lessens the feel of the spur at the girth which he overreacts to sometimes). He has been getting better - only a 1/2 step late now as opposed to a full step. I think it's a combination of not being straight or fully through, maybe he is also a little slow with that "sticky" leg, and this approach was the only thing that worked. I tried poles, simple changes, counter-canter, collected/medium, whatever - you name it we tried it - until my trainer learned this approach from Hilda Gurney and passed it to me.

[whitewolfe001]

I'm looking for advice, excercises, techniques, etc. for "fixing" changes on a horse that consistently changes late behind. .

What has worked for me, consistently, rather than fussing around in the arena, is to get out of the ring, into a field, get going in a nice, really FORWARD canter, perhaps you might even call it a hand gallop, perhaps even get up into a two point position, and do big huge rolling figure eights with changes in the center. Getting the horse really forward solves the engagement problem, getting out in the field makes it fun, and he learns change cleanly and consistently without getting stressed out. Going back to the ring, if the changes became late again, it was because I was holding too much. After the field excercise and coming back to the ring, if I remembered to keep the horse forward and engaged, it has always solved the problem. Good luck.

[goeslikestink]

What has worked for me, consistently, rather than fussing around in the arena, is to get out of the ring, into a field, get going in a nice, really FORWARD canter, perhaps you might even call it a hand gallop, perhaps even get up into a two point position, and do big huge rolling figure eights with changes in the center. Getting the horse really forward solves the engagement problem, getting out in the field makes it fun, and he learns change cleanly and consistently without getting stressed out. Going back to the ring, if the changes became late again, it was because I was holding too much. After the field excercise and coming back to the ring, if I remembered to keep the horse forward and engaged, it has always solved the problem. Good luck.

good idea, i do tha mostly myself as often the horse is more relaxed when in an unpressured enviroment i school mainly outside on the roads and lanes and then in the woods as the wood are the most enjoyable for the horse and can be used as reward as in fun stuff rewards the horse to

[bthatasitmay]

Jane,
That video is the one I meant to post. (oops). I'm glad you came in to correct me. :)

[slc2]

The best quote is from Jan Brons:

"Flying changes have to occur on a straight line"

Damn straight, actually.

[Angela Freda]

Just adding what I picked up at a Debbie McDonald clinic years ago- do not keep practicing them without supervision, her thought being that if you keep repeating the mistake that is making the horse late [or whatever the issue is], you're training them to do it that way, rather then correctly.

[Cotner]

Thanks to all for the input and suggestions. I actually tried the excercise from the Jane Savoie video and all my changes were clean today. I still have alot of work ahead but I am happy with the results today.

Thanks

[FriesianX]

I find if the changes are late, it is usually MY timing or riding that is causing it. Keep the horse STRAIGHT - our human minds do think if we bend in the direction of the new lead, it will help, but it doesn't, it just throws the hindquarters out so they can't change behind. And remember half halt, remind the horse to stay ACTIVE behind, and give them enough room with your hips when asking for the change.

For some horses, the half pass to change does set them up well. And make sure you can do simple changes - on a 20 meter circle, you should be able to canter, walk, counter canter, walk, canter, walk, counter canter, walk, etc. If you can't, then hold off on the changes. Once that is clear and clean, do the same exercise on a circle, but do counter canter, change - then there is NO PRESSURE to change because the rail is coming up - you have a circle, keep riding until all feels good.