Forwardness and...many other things.

[Chenalie]

xx

[merrygoround]

Oh dear, this is a school horse? :eek:

Horses like this require riders with strong secure seats, and independent hands. Riders who are able to do upteen transitions, using minimal or no hand, riders who can explain to the horse the vocabulary of the seat and leg so that change of direction is not an excuse for loss of balance, and rushing.

Find yourself an instructor who can direct you in these directions.

[slc2]

"So, I dont have a horse of my own, but I ride a sort of school horse. I dont think THAT many other people ride him, because he likes to go FAST. At a walk, he's relaxed, head down. When I ask for a trot, he immediatly pulls his head up and speeds off. It takes me usually half of the arena to slow him down but he keeps his head up no matter what I do. He usually rushes off again. When he's not speeding off, he's plodding around.
How can I get him at a happy trot?
If I ask for more forwardness, he runs off.
Also, how can I get his head more relaxed? It's a little better going the other direction. Why?
"

It's all about perception and what you're used to. "Fast" could very well be correct - a dressage horse, anyway, is supposed to trot very energetically, and somewhat quickly, at least it would seem fast if you're used to other kinds of riding where horses go relatively slow, like Western Pleasure. "Relaxed, head down" isn't necessarily real good dressage, even if it's pleasant. In dressage, a horse actually should feel like he reaches for the bit and takes ahold of it and moves along at a good clip all the time, all gaits very energetic and active.

"Getting his head more relaxed" I don't understand. If you mean you want to get him to feel mentally calmer, and you're equating calmer with going slow with his head down, that isn't really a dressage thing, though many horses do need to stretch out at a walk before they start working, in dressage, theuy should be marching along very actively, even at the walk. It more sounds like a pleasure ride than dressage to go really slow with the horse's head down.

ON THE OTHER HAND, one can say exactly what your first responder said - doesn't sound like a good horse for you to learn on. A horse to learn on is supposed to keep up a steady but somewhat slow, un-energetic gait that doesn't have a big bounce to it, a gait that is easy to learn on - it's not a real 'dressagey' type of moving around, and it might not win ribbons at a dressage show, but it's an appropriate sort of movement to learn on.

A horse to learn on should keep up a slightly slower, steady even speed even if the rider is pressing his legs into him, letting the whip flop against his butt, or pulling or jerking on the reins, or leaning forward. He should do that without the rider having to do a lot of work.

If your horse is going slow sometimes and faster than you're comfortable with at other times, you should not be asking here what to do. You need to have someone supervising you while you ride and tell you what to do. Each horse is a little different, and someone needs to stand there and watch and see why your horse is going very slow sometimes and fast at other times. You may need to change what you're doing or the horse may just be too hard for a less experienced person to be riding.

[Dixon]

It takes me usually half of the arena to slow him down but he keeps his head up no matter what I do.

Instead of letting him take you halfway around the arena, circle him to slow him down. As tightly as you need to, with a steady but gentle direct inside rein. Then as his trot relaxes to where you want it, gradually broaden your circle. If he speeds up again, tighten your circle again. Etc. He is probably worse one direction because he's stiff. Many "school" horses have soundness issues that make them a little creaky.

[Manes and Tails]

What bit do they have this horse in?

[victoriAH!]

Hm, school horses I find can be a challenge to do a respectable dressage test with, especailly ones that have been ridden by inexperienced/beginer, novice riders. If the students are the only ones putting time into these horses their training diminsh's and they learn to anticipate being yanked in the mouth or able to take advantage of their riders. Now you say you think that your the only one who rides this horse, then it would be easier to esentially re-train (remember everytime you get on a horse your training it, whether its right or wrong, you are) because he can learn what your aids mean be being consistent with them. Lots of lesson horse tend to feel out their riders and find out what they can get away with the moment you bring them in. So establish the respect from the ground first.
Without seeing what is really going on and a limited amount of information it's hard to say exactly how to deal with the problem. A number of things could be the problem, ill-fitting tack, lack of training (as I've mentioned), uneducated hands to name a few. But supposeing the tack fit's properly I'd say start out with a light contact when you get on, do lots of leg yeilds, circles, spirling, walk-halt, reinback exercises to ensure he's listening to your aids not just plodding along (your saying "head down, relaxed" sort of suggests that he's just following routine instead of listening to you). Then move on to the trot but make sure you keep a steady, consistant contact throught the transition, again light, not grabbing at his face if he rushes forward this will start a game you don't want to play.. when you pull, he pulls harder and faster. Instead half halt, check and release not pulling, also keep your seat quiet and relaxed and your leg there but not driving. Maybe ask for the transition on a circle where if he gets rushing too much and is not coming back to you, you can quickly disengage the hindend (Of course something you don't want to reslut to, but it'll get the point across to him in drastic times). Also do LOTS of transitions, walk-trot-walk, trot-halt, trot-halt-reinback, shortening-lengthening the trot. All the while keeping relaxed not tense.
Hope this helps!

excuse any spelling mistakes.. as I can't catch 'em all.

[kdow]

Im not even sure where this would go, but I figured you guys would be able to help.

So, I dont have a horse of my own, but I ride a sort of school horse. I dont think THAT many other people ride him, because he likes to go FAST. At a walk, he's relaxed, head down. When I ask for a trot, he immediatly pulls his head up and speeds off. It takes me usually half of the arena to slow him down but he keeps his head up no matter what I do. He usually rushes off again. When he's not speeding off, he's plodding around.
How can I get him at a happy trot?
If I ask for more forwardness, he runs off.
Also, how can I get his head more relaxed? It's a little better going the other direction. Why?

He sounds a lot like a school horse I used to ride. He was more of an intermediate level horse- not for beginners- basically BECAUSE his gaits felt so intimidating.

There are a lot of other things that could be going on (lack of fitness, poor tack fit, poor balance- I'm sure other folks will point things out) but with the guy I used to ride, what made the most difference for ME in getting a good ride out of him was when I stopped worried about the speed he was going, and focused on HOW he was going and how I was riding him. Once I stopped getting tense about "omg, we're going too fast" and paid attention to sitting him well and so on, he actually became MUCH easier to ride, and it was much easier to direct all that 'speedy' energy into developing a good gait/good transitions.

That said, since he's a schoolie I would probably look to discomfort and fitness issues first. If his back is hurting or the saddle doesn't fit right, you'll have a very hard time getting him to round himself (which is what results in appropriate head carriage) because basically he's being punished for rounding up by the pain whenever he does so.

[goeslikestink]

Oh dear, this is a school horse? :eek:

Horses like this require riders with strong secure seats, and independent hands. Riders who are able to do upteen transitions, using minimal or no hand, riders who can explain to the horse the vocabulary of the seat and leg so that change of direction is not an excuse for loss of balance, and rushing.

Find yourself an instructor who can direct you in these directions.

got it in one ie sit into him use your seat if he runs of sit down on him and bring him back to a walk
using the half halt stride if your to heavy in your hands the pony will run /nap to advade you

[EqTrainer]

What are you being told to do in your lessons?

[Chenalie]

Thanks guys
(:
I wont be going riding until next week, because my trainer's in the hospital so I dont know when I'll ride again...
I added some things onto my first post, if you want to read.

[kdow]

Thanks guys
(:
I wont be going riding until next week, because my trainer's in the hospital[she's pregnant and has been fainting and stuff] so I dont know when I'll ride again...
I added some things onto my first post, if you want to read.

If he's really tense on one side and really flinging his head up (so that he's almost inverted- high neck, back dropped away from the saddle, not coming under himself at all) I would really start with getting him checked out physically for pain (either an on-going issue, or something related to tack fit.)

Once he's got the all-clear in that area, then you consider that maybe he's just learned this way of going gets him out of doing work, or other training/riding considerations. But I'd start with getting him checked out, because often tension is the result of some kind of pain/discomfort.

One of the reasons for giving him the benefit of the doubt here (that it's a legitimate problem and not a training/riding issue) is that if there IS any kind of physical issue causing him pain or discomfort at the trot, then it makes it much harder to train him to do it properly, because his 'reward' for doing it the way you ask is more pain- not particularly convincing, and basically just teaching him every time it happens that the entire process is a negative experience he SHOULD be tense and stressed about and try to avoid.

[Manes and Tails]

I asked about the bit for a reason. If there's nothing physically wrong, then the behavior you've desrcribed could be symptomatic of over-bitting (And yes, a horse can be over-bitted in a mild snaffle, I've seen it) and/or anticipating a yank in the mouth. Try releasing the rein when he rushes, and instead resisting the forward motion with knees and seat. If he slows down, then the issue is probably in his mouth.

[goeslikestink]

here this explains it in depth, as iam not good at writting but this will do

http://www.meredithmanor.com/features/articles/faith/fixing_bit_evasions.asp

and i am adding this one on bits and biting has diagrams of how the bit works in a ponys mouth
so related to above

http://www.sustainabledressage.com/tack/bridle.php#kineton

these will help you a lot