When purchasing an OTTB not local to you... [Archive]

Jleegriffith

Nov. 17, 2008, 09:26 AM

You will find great information from those of us who have contacts in the industry but many times it is best to look at something that has a bit of retraining especially when shopping for a kid. Not all ottb's are suitable for teenage riders and buying a horse straight from the track can be a bit of a gamble. Retraining an ottb takes a lot of experience and good help along the way. If your daughter has never ridden a TB or trained a young horse I would steer you away from something that has no retraining. It is very easy to fall head over heels in love with a horse for all the wrong reasons.

There are many organizations out there that are retraining such as CANTER MA, Midatlantic Horse Rescue, Rerun and the list goes on and on.

I personally retrain several horses for CANTER Mid atlantic so I get to know them inside and out. They all have several months of show mileage on them before we market them for sale so we can be confident we place them in the right homes.

I would take your time and do your research before buying something fresh off the track for a young rider but that is just my opinion.

Xctrygirl

Nov. 17, 2008, 09:57 AM

BeverlyAStrauss

Nov. 17, 2008, 12:56 PM

If you are in NY, try AkindaleHorseRescue.org (Erin is great!) or FingerLakesTAP.org

JLeegriffith is a great resource too if you want someone who has already been started along the way.

Just make sure your daughter is ready for the task and have a good trainer on hand- bringing along an OTTB is a wonderful experience as long as the horse and rider are a safe and suitable match!

Bev Strauss
MidAtlantic Horse Rescue

wishnwell

Nov. 17, 2008, 04:18 PM

Ok lets go back to the basics,

How old is daughter?

How long competing?

What level competing?

How long with current trainer??

What goals does she have for future?

How often does she ride, honestly, per week?

The answers to these questions will better help the rest of us answer your original questions.

Now don't misunderstand, I am VERY familiar with OTTB's and TB's as a breed. There are OTTB's that could suit her, but its always good to know what you're looking for from the Ottb as a whole..Meaning should you be looking at a 4 yr old 4 weeks out of its last race or an 8 yr old thats had a year off. These two are not facing the same training needs. So we need to know your daughters abilities and training skills and competence level.

Believe me when I say sometimes it is ok to be the parent and overrule the desire factor in favor of what is actually appropriate and safe. You'll see a lot less of the ER.

~Emily

I completely understand you stand. Trust me I wouldn't do anything I didn't feel she shouldn't or couldn't handle. Any TB we got off the track would be something fully though through and matched correctly.

To answer some of your questions :
She's just about to turn 14
She's been riding riding for 8.5 yrs. Competing H/J for 4, and Pony Club/Eventing 2
Trains at Novice, current horse probably won't be able to compete much at that level though ( didn't get him for the dicipline she's now changed to). He's only competed at BN. He lacks size.
With current trainer for 3+yrs. who has OTTB herself and trained herself.
Goals are to go to find a horse that she can train and take with her to Training, maybe Prelim. Time frame- however long it takes. She prefers to train. and done it with our 2 other horses.
She honestly rides at least 3 days a week, usually 4. When training/breaking her horse, it was 5.
Now this is not an adventure we are looking to do today. Probably next winter or later.
We are surrounded by many wonderful folks who are here to help when needed. It's not a mission we would be taking on ourselves. But if when meeting the adoption volunteers they don't feel she's ready, then we won't take on the adventure.

subk

Nov. 17, 2008, 04:49 PM

Any TB we got off the track would be something fully thought through and matched correctly.
And THAT is the number one challenge of buying a TB directly off the track, because having any sense that you've made a match is almost impossible before the purchase. If you're buying off the track for a rider with a lot of experience that can ride and manage many different types of horses then the higher the probability of success.

Since you rarely get to do a test ride, buying off the track is really a crap shoot. For a teenager (I have a 14 year old myself) the extra expense in the purchase price for an OTTB with some let down time and some training and that your child can actually ride before you buy would be--in my opinion--money well spent!

would like to look into CANTER or other Rescues...
Just a little of an aside. CANTER is not a "rescue" per say. While they certainly do own some horses that may have needed some rescue, the bulk of their work is to put well meaning trainers who have not abused or neglected their horses in anyway in touch with a market that is interested in their horses when they are no longer successful at the track.

I have bought 2 horses through CANTER and both of them came from great homes. It was just time for them to find another job and another great home!

2boys

Nov. 17, 2008, 08:04 PM

I live in MA, and adopted my ottb from rerun, which has a chapter out of New Jersey. I spoke with the woman who was in charge of his adoption, as well as the woman who oversaw all adoptions through rerun several times. Once I was approved, well wait a minute, once I realized that they had the guy for me (NOT the one I initally called for), I filled out the paperwork. Then I was approved, so I took a road trip (with the best horse show mom ever, and my four year old daughter) to New Jersey and rode him. I would have been a FOOL to pass him up---so I didn't, and it was one of the best decisions I have ever made. I don't know that I would have done it sight-unseen. But that is just my overconservative self.:cool:

bornfreenowexpensive

Nov. 17, 2008, 08:22 PM

One of my best event horses....I bought dirt cheap from a family like yours. They bought him as the move up horse for their 14 year old daughter. She was a good rider for her age, had years of experience riding other horses and ponies, was in pony club and had help. He still put her in the hospital...and they hated him.

He was one of the easiest OTTBs that I've ever worked with but was WAY too much horse for them....I'm fairly sure that 3-4 years later, their daughter may have been fine with him but not at 14. I bought him, re-broke him over the winter, and we moved up from novice to Prelim in his first season....He was a kick ass xc horse and still one of the best jumping horses that I've ever sat on.....yet they called him dog meat when I bought him and he had been labled as dangerous by the local pony club that they were riding with. He wasn't, he just wasn't the right match with them at that time.

I've seen some lovely lovely OTTBs......but I would not buy one directly off the track for any teenager unless they were going to be re-broken off the track by someone who knows what they are doing and was going to be there with that teenager EVERY step of the way.....and even then, I would still advise against it.

For you (and others)....I would really look at one that has been off the track and already restarted. They will still be VERY green....but at least have had the down time, gotten fed, healthy and away from the track long enough that you can evaluate what their personality really is and whether they will match your teen. That is something extremely difficult to do if they are still on the track or right off the track. It will still be a big training project for her....but your chances of successs will be greatly enhanced.

yellowbritches

Nov. 17, 2008, 08:30 PM

For you (and others)....I would really look at one that has been off the track and already restarted. They will still be VERY green....but at least have had the down time, gotten fed, healthy and away from the track long enough that you can evaluate what their personality really is and whether they will match your teen. That is something extremely difficult to do if they are still on the track or right off the track. It will still be a big training project for her....but your chances of successs will be greatly enhanced.
I agree with this 100%. I love my OTTBs, but there is no way I'd let a young teenager, even with some experience starting horses, deal with one straight off the track. While I have met some OTTBs come straight off the track that were dead quiet, most are not the same creature they end up being a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year later and often need to be dealt with and cared for by pros or people with LOTS of experience dealing with high strung, drugged up, racetrack fit, TBs.

There is a great website that has both training racehorses listed and OTTBs that have been restarted and are ready to bring along...unfortunately, I can't remember the name off the top of my head!

Equine Adhesive

Nov. 17, 2008, 10:03 PM

Probably not what you want to hear, but I am in complete agreement with the posters above. I, too, have purchased an OTTB for dirt cheap from a 15-yr-old who bought it directly off the track 2 years prior and never was able to ride it.

If you really HAVE to have a green one, your best bet would be to buy one that is at least 30 days off the track, so your daughter can 1) watch someone else ride it first and 2) ride it herself, preferably with her trainer present. You can probably find one this way from $2500-$5000, especially this time of year, probably on the lower end of that! Check out exracers.com for good advice on where to find something or general questions about OTTB's.

Cherry

Nov. 17, 2008, 10:14 PM

I think for your purposes you might be better off going to a rescue group like New Vocations: http://www.horseadoption.com/ .

The woman who runs it, Dot Morgan, is a long time horsewoman who comes from a long line of race horse trainers (if I'm not mistaken). She seems to have a knack for matching horses and riders--contact her and see what she has to say about the matter. After a couple of years the adopter gets the horse's papers too--highly unusual for a rescue. I believe these horses are worked with after the track and have some re-training under their belts.

Honestly? I would think twice about getting a Thoroughbred for your daughter. I bought a little TB who was off the track for years. I had over thirty years experience dealing with horses but I was ill prepared for the TB mind, which is unlike any other horse I have ever dealt with! :eek: I was hurt badly a couple of times through my own inattentiveness and was fortunate not to have been killed. I would seriously look into a Standardbred, most of which seem to have much better minds than TBs. Dot has both. :yes: Some STBs look very much like TBs who are the foundation of the STB breed. ;)

Divine Comedy

Nov. 17, 2008, 10:41 PM

I wouldn't say don't get a OTTB, but I would say be very careful about the mind. I have an OTTB that I got when he had just officially turned 5 but was actually about 4 and a half chronologically. He has the best mind of ANY horse I have ever met. Calm, steady, but I can rev him up if I want to. However, I have known a LOT of TBs that were fired up and hot as hell all the time. I didn't have a horse for ten years and a lot of what I rode was TBs. I liked that hot, firey mentality, but when it came time to have my own horse, I wanted to be able to switch that mentality off. I'm very lucky that I was able to find it, and it was love as soon as I sat on him, which I have never experienced with any other horse. Most people (including my vet) are very surprised to find out that not only is he only 6 (now) but also that he is a TB, as he is just so chill.

My point is that they exist, but you need to be careful when finding it. Oh, and I would stay away from chestnut TB mares, I have never seen one that was completely sane about everything. They might be out there, but I would say it is less likely to find one that is sane than other color mares or geldings.

Jleegriffith

Nov. 18, 2008, 09:00 AM

s6bee- I am probably a big hypocrite with my advise because my family has always been involved in Tb's so that is what I grew up with. However, I will tell you if I had to do it all over again I might choose differently. I can say that now that I am older (I'm mid 20's) but when I was that age there was nothing I wanted more than my own young TB to retrain. I got my first one when I was 10 yrs old. One bad experience and it took me three years to try again. I begged and begged until I got the horse I had fallen in love with. He was a 4yr ex-steeplechase that had come in for training..um there was a reason he was there for training. He had launched the teenager who bought him for a local dealer several times hurting her and they needed him gone.

Long story short he became mine b/c I was a good kid, good grades, good rider, lots of help, parents who rode and taught, in pony club with super instructors and we all understood Tb's. I can tell you I fell of 2x a week for almost a year until I learned how to ride him and even then the experience was a tough one. He was a quiet Tb but being a teenager regardless of how well you ride you still have so much to learn and he was not the easiest horse. It did not matter to me then but now I wish I had had a horse who was more honest and willing I would have learned so much more instead of just trying to survive.

I suppose those skills have benefited me because now I make a second income restarting young Tb's and I have been working with CANTER MA for the past several years restarting several of the horses they own.

I have sold many of my ottb's to teens or amateur riders but they also have several months of training on them, they have shown, trail ridden, been off the farm many many times, gone to lessons, clinics and so much more. I know the horses inside and out and can feel 100% comfortable saying this horse will be suitable for a teenage rider with a good instructor. Many of my ottb's will never be suitable for a teen or a amateur rider but I can at least tell somebody that and make sure my horses end up in the right place.

In the past 2yrs, I have had four ottb's come through the CANTER program that almost anybody could ride. Super, super, super quiet and lovely horses. I sold one to my mom and he was almost what I would call a packer at age 4. He has went clean at every single event and he just takes her around. A 3yr tb that never raced but was both cribbed and paddled. He was probably the quietest horse I had seen in a long time. Dead quiet and just happy go lucky. He is now a family horse and is out hunting. Another 4yr who started out very very green but turned into a lovely hunter. He was not as much of a packer but never did anything scary and he was bought by a teen who is now competing him in the hunters. I currently have two in the barn who I have had for over 8 months. They are both hunting, eventing, doing local h/j shows, trail riding and much more. They are horses with excellent minds. Both priced what I would call below market value but the mileage is priceless if you ask me. I would still consider them green horses but horses that you could buy and not worry your daughter would get hurt.

There are many horses that have come off the track and had time off but have not yet been tested. My opinion is that until you get the horses out and about you do not know what they will be like. Finding an ottb that will event quietly and safely is not as easy as one might think. They don't all want to go outside of the ring and some are going to have herd issues that are going to be to hard for a teenager rider to deal with. You have to really know what types of questions to ask.

I get a bit riled up about this subject because I see so many people who jump blindly into buying an ottb with no training and the kids get scared, hurt or lose interest and then suddenly ottb's are horrible horses. No, ottb's can be wonderful if you chose the right one. I treat each horse as an individual just like I do with horses of all breeding and they are not a one size fits all. Choose wisely and it can work but buy blind and you could pay the price.

caffeinated

Nov. 18, 2008, 09:31 AM

My point is that they exist, but you need to be careful when finding it. Oh, and I would stay away from chestnut TB mares, I have never seen one that was completely sane about everything. They might be out there, but I would say it is less likely to find one that is sane than other color mares or geldings.

heh. My favorite horses I've ever ridden have been chestnut TB mares. :) And a friend of mine got a young chestnut mare from CANTER's adoption program, she was a beginner rider, and that horse takes excellent care of her :)

(sorry, it's one of my peeves! I think things like "chestnut mare, beware" are self-fulfilling prophecies: you expect the horse to be a little nutty, so more "meaning" is read into normal things. And a lot of people notice when a horse meets their expectations or stereotypes, but then don't notice when the horse doesn't. So if they see ten chestnut mares, and four are nutty and six are fine, they remember the nutty ones)

Sorry about the hijack, I just love me a chestnut mare! (and such naming possibilities... "triple threat?" "Three Strikes?" hehe)

magnolia73

Nov. 18, 2008, 11:10 AM

I bought a restarted OTTB. She was $3500. So for not much more than buying a horse off the track, I was able to assess her personality and rideability further.

I think unless you are working with someone experienced picking out OTTB's it can be a huge risk. Niki is green, she is being trained. But what I did was avoid the risk of getting an incompatable personality. Incidentally- had you pulled her off the track to be your next * prospect, you'd have been disappointed- mare has no engine. You'd never make time. But she is a great ammy "family horse". When I saw her I was able to ride her, ask questions and deal with a seller who knew what I was looking for because she regularly worked with adult ammies.

I think the ability to train is one thing. The ability to go to a track and look at a horse on the backside and determine that he is safe, going to have the mind to do what you want, sound- that is a different skill. I think the groups like CANTER really have that skill. And I think that is part of what they are there for- to look at some of the horses, assess and find them suitable new jobs. I think that anyone (without experience or working with someone with experience) looking for their "one" horse, that is not looking for a flip or can't take on the burden of two or more horses at least needs to shop where they can sit on the horse and get an idea if things are going to be compatable.

TB's have a huge range of personalities. It isn't even safe vs unsafe. There are those with engines. There are those like Niki with no speed. There are ones that are spooky. Ones that love getting out, one that don't mind drilling in the ring. I think it would probably make for a better scenario if you found your daughters horse at a place where you could more fully assess the horse you are getting.

texang73

Nov. 18, 2008, 11:41 AM

FWIW, my horse was not straight off the track, but is an OTTB. He had minimal non-racing training (about 6 months of bad training) when I bought him, but I was able to evaluate his personality and ride him. I got him for $1200. :D

So you CAN get an inexpensive OTTB without going through an adoption organization (not bashing CANTER or the like, as I think they are GREAT organizations and do a great job!:yes: ) if you are worried about not getting to ride or vet the horse out before you buy them. Just a thought...

Divine Comedy

Nov. 18, 2008, 02:03 PM

heh. My favorite horses I've ever ridden have been chestnut TB mares. :) And a friend of mine got a young chestnut mare from CANTER's adoption program, she was a beginner rider, and that horse takes excellent care of her :)

(sorry, it's one of my peeves! I think things like "chestnut mare, beware" are self-fulfilling prophecies: you expect the horse to be a little nutty, so more "meaning" is read into normal things. And a lot of people notice when a horse meets their expectations or stereotypes, but then don't notice when the horse doesn't. So if they see ten chestnut mares, and four are nutty and six are fine, they remember the nutty ones)

Sorry about the hijack, I just love me a chestnut mare! (and such naming possibilities... "triple threat?" "Three Strikes?" hehe)

And that's awesome! I'm just saying that in my personal experience, I have never come across one that was completely sane in everything. I knew one that was great for everything except the farrier hated shoeing her. I just feel that the incidence of craziness is a higher percentage among chestnut TB mares seems to be higher than among other TB demographics. I've also known quite a few kids/teenagers who tried to graduate from ponies to TBs with a green chestnut TB mare and it never seemed to work out. So in this case, that is my personal recommendation.

But yeah, I can understand why that prejudice could be a peeve. I don't like any mares at all, I've never met one that I truly got along with. But I love a gelding with fire.

JustJump250

Nov. 18, 2008, 02:48 PM

Haha I have to agree with caffeinated. Everyone has their preferences- some people get along really well with a chestnut mare. Ask me how I know, I have three :D. And I've got three bay geldings to compare them to- I love my boys, but my red mares never let me down. And Divine Comedy, I think I know the mare you're talking about (ahem cough mine ahem)...no, she's not perfect (no horse is!), but she's darn close if you ask me ;)

No horse is going to be great about everything. There's always going to be some imperfection. Its all in what you can deal with, and what you can't. Which, again, everyone has a preference.

As far as buying an OTTB for a young teenager, while there are some great ones, its one heck of a gamble. I have a 5 year old who I got directly off the track in October, and he is by far and away the quietest horse I have. I could hack him alone, on the buckle, from the first day I brought him home. And I frequently do! But, that said, when you get one straight from the track, its a total gamble as to what you're getting- you never know what they're going to be like once you get them home. Some struggle with the adjustment to farm life. Some will need more time to settle and understand their new jobs. Some will be pretty easy, but some will be total fruit loops.

When you go to the track for something, you're taking a huge chance. Buying something green from someone who's been able to determine their strengths, help them transition, and put a good start on them greatly reduces the odds you'll be stuck with something that wasn't what you expected. Let someone with the experience and knowledge take the chance, it'll save you the guesswork!

So to wrap up my ramble (sorry!), I pretty much agree with everything Jlee and YB said.

Im Natives Last

Nov. 18, 2008, 03:49 PM

I must agree that most fresh off the track TBs are way too much for teenagers. How about one with a little down time? This past spring, I got a 13 yo grey gelding, 16h tall, for free! Jumps like a bird, sound, very laid back. They are out there!! That being said, I have 3 chestnut mares, none are crazy. The best trail horse I have is a chestnut OTTB mare. No spook at all, not trains, motor bikes, bridges, tunnels, nothing! Don't be racist!!!:winkgrin:

smay

Nov. 18, 2008, 04:01 PM

FlashGordon

Nov. 18, 2008, 04:12 PM

Just hook up with Jlee now and get it over with! I would have bought one of her fabulous re-started TBs for my 13-year-old pony clubber years ago if I were a little bit closer! She's got a couple right now that would be perfect.. just DO it!

I know I was kinda thinking the same.... ;)

I love her blog and the horses she has brought along this year. They are going to make some people very happy...

broodmare

Nov. 20, 2008, 12:45 PM

First: green horses and kids just aren't a great mix. your daughter is probably in about 8th grade. get her something that is well started.
Secondly Unless you are a professional yourself,Let her trainer have a big role with the decision. Many kids overestimate their ability to start a green horse. Third: The money you spend on something with more experience will be far less than the money you spend putting the experience on a greenie. (it aint' the price, its the upkeep.)
The "kid off to college", or "kid has discovered boys" is the best marketplace out there for the move up to the next level horse for jr high.

Divine Comedy

Nov. 20, 2008, 01:58 PM

And Divine Comedy, I think I know the mare you're talking about (ahem cough mine ahem)...no, she's not perfect (no horse is!), but she's darn close if you ask me ;)

No horse is going to be great about everything. There's always going to be some imperfection. Its all in what you can deal with, and what you can't. Which, again, everyone has a preference.

You're completely right; I am going to amend that to I have only ever met one chestnut mare who wasn't insane, and yes, that is your lovely mare who I miss very much! (And you and everyone else and their horses up there where it is nice and COLD right now! Except said barn owner. Everyone else, though.)
Of course, the half sister was completely nuts, but I think that was a management. That mare needed to not have herd turnout. But there are definitely nice chestnut mares out there; you just have make sure your personalities mesh!

And of course, JustJump is right again, no horse is perfect, and I should have mentioned that my horse also could be considered not completely sane about everything if I judge him by the criteria that I judged chestnut mares on. He's no peach on the trailer and of course, also has his redheaded moments. So therefore, I apologize to all those w/chestnut mares and say that I may be strongly influenced by the couple of complete fruit loops that are chestnut mares that I have met.

Okay, so after rambling on, I agree with saying get an OTTB who is already well restarted. And go with whatever your personality meshes with, while again, as JustJump states, be aware that every horse has their "issue".

Wow that was long and unorganized. Sorry, all.

bornfreenowexpensive

Nov. 20, 2008, 02:31 PM

Thank you everyone for your advice. I may have been misleading when I mentioned OTTB. However, I would never take anything that had been freshly raced. I guess the OTTB term in my mind meant anything that once raced on the track. I would only do it through an agency working closely with trainers and/or tracks. My question was more geared towards knowing good vs. bad trainers and the end result in the horse once it is ready for adoption. It seemed as if the agencies working with them aren't able to disclose much info. and that would be an important bit of info. for us. Of course a vet check would be done, etc.
I know she has a lot more to learn and the breed issues. She's broke 2 horses before, and I realize the huge, risky task it takes with a TB. It's a breed I prefer to stay away from but realize the talent they also have for eventing.
With all the comments, not so sure I'll do it at all.

Thanks

TBs are actually wonderful horses in many many ways. I've known several that have packed beginners around for years or timid riders out on the trails. You should not be concerned about an OTTB because of its breed or how it was trained at the track or how many races etc. What you need to be looking for is a good NON-race trainer that has some TBs or other horses for sale. Folks like Jlee who posted on this thread (who does a great job) and there are many more. This is NO different than when you go looking for any other type of horse for sale. You need to have experienced help with you and you should have a good pre-purchase exam done (with blood pulled) by a vet.

Based on what you posted....it is coming across to many of us that you are looking at horses still on the track or just off the track. That is what many of us are advising against....we are not saying don't get a TB.

Fresh off the track is were people get into trouble....they buy a horse right off the track because it is very cheap....and you do get a LOT more athlete of a horse for your buck than any other way. But often, they get too much horse for their kid to handle. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the horse....but the kids are just not at a stage in their riding (or mental/emotional stability) to deal with the horse. A horse that has been off the track for re-started and re-trained is no different to go look at than a horse that never raced. It isn't a breed thing....it is an individual horse thing. Stick to the organizations and trainers who have spent the time to get the horse away from the track long enough to evaluate it. And make sure your trainer is very involved......without the teenager present....to really tell you their level and what they can handle.

The TBs are often much more of an athlete and that is what makes them great and yet tougher. The wrong match could be like giving your teenager the keys to a Porsche when they should be driving an Ford Escort. That is why one that is already re-started and re-trained is a much better idea. TBs can (and often do) have much more heart than other horses....and that is worth its weight in gold.....I would not ever suggest to someone that they avoid buying a TB just because it is a TB or OTTB.

BeverlyAStrauss

Nov. 20, 2008, 02:59 PM

There are so many great TBs available out there, and good people who will help guide you- since your daughter wants to event, that is probably the perfect breed for her as long as you get the right partner- I am with Jlee, I grew up with TBs and wouldnt have anything else. We have successfully placed horses with riders as young as 9 (granted, he was very special) and as old as mid 70's......first time owners, repeat owners, etc.......eventing, showing, pony club, pleasure......these horses can do it all.

You can ride the horses we have available here at MidAtlantic Horse Rescue (MD), you can ride the ones that Jess has (DE), and if you want to stay in NY, Erin will not steer you wrong at Akindale Horse Rescue. Another great program is South Jersey TB Rescue in NJ.

Good luck and dont give up!!!

Jleegriffith

Nov. 20, 2008, 03:22 PM

Just to second what Bev said I do not steer people away from Tb's since obviously that is my breed of choice but I always suggest buying from people who will put your best interest at heart. I get upset when Tb's get a bad name because they are placed with the wrong people. There are some that are just so quiet anybody could ride them and others that are like sportscars and only for a few select riders. There are so many great people out there to buy from and people on this board who I do business with and recommend.

I know Mapleshade is in GA and she is a wonderful resource. I have a local contact in NJ who does the same thing I do and I would trust her to match up the right horse. Bev at MAHR is a wonderful resource and if she does not have something to fit you she will send you in the right direction. One of my favorite horses came from MAHR and we bought him sight unseen.

As far as knowing their history even the adoption agencys and local contacts often do not know their history. I am not sure why that is so important? One thing about horses that have raced is you can pull their race records which will tell you a bit about what they have been up to. I think you are lucky if you can get a full history on a horse that has raced. The racing industry is complicated and most horses do not stay with just one trainer. Therefore, getting a full history becomes so difficult. I try to just evaluate each horse based on what i currently know about it which is why having it restarted gives you a much better advantage. Many horses even those who have raced years ago will have baggage while others do not. Some horses take a year or two just to adapt to life off the track. It really all depends on the horse.

magnolia73

Nov. 20, 2008, 03:32 PM

There are some that are just so quiet anybody could ride them

Yup-
My Niki is 5 yo, OTTB. I ride her- LOL. I have put both my non riding brother and my boyfriend on her. She is simply a horse with a quiet, very calm personality. She is probably a bit too quiet to be an excellent eventer.

All breeds have bad apples. ALL BREEDS. There are spastic quarterhorses, warmbloods with naughty bucks. Appies are smarter than everyone! And there are bad sellers who try to pass along dangerous horses unscrupulously. Of all breeds. I think people working through CANTER (and other groups) are very motivated to make good matches and perhaps some of the most honest sources for horses. I know that they want good homes for them.

Ultimately, it is a risk to buy any horse. I think the risk from the fresh OTTB is in the training/lack of/differences in. Once they have been handled by experienced people outside of the track and you get a sense of their personality- it is easier for your to assess and the risk of a bad match is no higher than going to a local warmblood breeder and buying a started 4 year old.

LarissaL

Nov. 20, 2008, 03:59 PM

I'm a little confused about the focus on divulging the horse's history as well. If the vet check doesn't turn up issues and the personality/under saddle evaluation deems the horse suitable, the rest is irrelevant.

For a young rider, I would encourage (as others do) to find and work with a group or individual who have already done the let down process and begun the reschooling. This horse already has a mold it needs to fit into - an amateur friendly eventer, with talent, body and mind to make up to Prelim - and that's not a good thing to take to the track with you. When buying straight off the track, a buyer really needs to be ready to accept ANYTHING once they get home. Even experienced track buyers get suprised sometimes.

It seems your daughter wants to do the training, is that part of why you want something nearly straight off the track? Believe me, there are years and years of training that go into making a solid Novice - Prelim horse.. she won't be missing out on much of anything by taking a horse that's already been restarted.

Also seems maybe someone is being influenced into the OTTB thing? Why not look into other breeds as well? TBx's even? Truthfully, if your daughter is SET on making up the horse herself, it might be more straightforward for her to start with a clean slate.. a young, green, sporthorse-started horse. If you and she believe she is capable of picking out an OTTB with Prelim ability (conformation, brains, rideability, etc) then she certainly can do it with other horses. Often the App/TB, QH/TB, Arab/TB, Conn/TB, etc come with the TB build and talent, minus the track baggage.

I believe there are oodles of TB's out there that are perfectly suited to young riders, intermediate level riders, trail riders, etc. The difficulty is in being able to interpret their behavior and mindset in a high-energy, low-timeframe, limited-interaction environment like the track. I understand some buyers have an aversion to buying from the middleman - could be the $$ markup or taking the fun out of restarting your own OTTB - but it's highly advisable for first-time (and second- and third-time) OTTB buyers to go that route. It removes a lot of the risk that one-horse owners usually can't afford. And the markup isn't even that bad.. there are still PLENTY of undiscovered, talented horses at rock bottom (<$2,500) in my area.

Whisper

Nov. 20, 2008, 04:14 PM

I've taken lessons on and leased some absolutely saintly TBs, both (long since) off the track, and without race training. They are sensitive enough to pick up on everything I want them to do, frequently just by *THINKING* hard, have loads of energy, and are patient about me flopping around while doing seat exercises, figuring out my position over jumps, etc. One of them even shifted in mid-air and did a rollback as he landed, then stopped next to the fence I'd just jumped, when I started to lose my balance and fall off over the side. They've done the occasional spook-and-scoot/etc., but frequently are less spooky than horses of other breeds. Cows, sprinklers, a pony running under his belly with rider screaming on board while I was riding him, driving horses pulling carriages, etc. were all taken in stride. ;)

However, I don't have the skills to bring on a greenie fresh off the track. I hope you find a TB (or other breed, for that matter) who is the perfect match for your daughter's current skills, and future dreams.

My current part-lease guy: http://www.daskerphoto.com/Gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=14970 at a hunter pace when I'd only rode him 3 times before

First time schooling XC on the TB I used to part-lease: http://groups.msn.com/BAENAddicts/whisper.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=12875
He flunked out of race training for rearing too much. After about a year and a half, he settled to the point where my trainer, who was a teenager at the time, bought him. They evented through Training, did Dressage through 2nd, and did H/J stuff up to about 3'.

This is the one who put up with the pony. His owner got him a couple of months after he came off the track, as a teenager, and brought him to Prelim (with help, of course): http://www.flickr.com/photos/82782698@N00/2377938617

Chestnut TB mare in my first show as an adult: http://groups.msn.com/BAENAddicts/whisper.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=11117 (I shared her with a 6 year-old girl who was showing for her first time)

achcosuva

Nov. 20, 2008, 07:53 PM

...a pony running under his belly with rider screaming on board while I was riding him...

Are you serious? :eek: Is that even possible? How big is this guy? How big was the pony?

I'm sorry, it was probably a very terrifying moment for all involved, but this image is just so cartoony. :lol:

Whisper

Nov. 21, 2008, 09:41 AM

Yeah, the pony (who was about maybe 10 hands, he's 16.2 hands) had a very Thellwellian moment and took off at a gallop with her young rider. Normally she's very unflappable, so I don't know what set her off. I halted on the rail, near the gate, and waited for them to get back under control. She came galloping at us, dove her head, neck, withers, and a couple inches of her back under my horse's belly, and came to a screeching halt with her head inches from the fence, on the other side of him (we were about a foot from it). The girl's knees and part of her thighs were underneath my horse, with her upper body leaning back away from his side. :eek: Her saddle was actually making contact with him. My guy didn't even flinch, just craned his neck around as if to say, "hey, whatcha doing under there?" After a couple of seconds, she was able to back the pony out from under him, apologising profusely. If we weren't so close to the fence, I'm not sure if the pony would have gotten stuck, or scraped her rider off on him as if he were a low branch on a trail ride.

It was really funny as soon as we were sure everyone was ok, but it could have had a terrible outcome if he wasn't such a good boy!

Lori B

Nov. 21, 2008, 09:53 AM

Buy that horse a beer, Whisper.

Whisper

Nov. 21, 2008, 03:52 PM

He got lots of carrots! :D

NMK

Nov. 21, 2008, 04:13 PM

Sometimes good trainers have bad horses. Some times bad trainers have good horses. Look at the horse, not the trainer. Listen to JLee. She is giving you straight advice from her heart.

I can tell you-- after doing this for many years-- what will happen if you go to the track with your daughter looking for a horse. The flashiest, tallest, most sparkly horse will end up in your barn. All good advice goes right out the window when tall, dark and handsome shows up. Or you choose cute and cuddly, only to find out that he has a major spook--I ended up with one of those. It took me 3 years to get into the arena at A without a meltdown. And I galloped on the track for years, so it's not like I havent' sat a spook or two.

So my advice? Don't go to the track. Go to one of the reputable sources mentioned above, and have your daughter fall in love there. You have a much better chance of success. And, some of them do have tall, dark and handsome, but they will know by then if he's all that.

OTTB's are easy to buy, hard to sell, especially without a good resume.

Nancy