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Altamont Sport Horses
Nov. 16, 2008, 12:24 PM
I'm tired of trying to look up the NSC content of prepared horse feeds, fat additions like rice bran and flax seed, hays and legumes, grains, etc. I haven't had luck using the COTH search feature for this. I would imagine there are many of us unnecessarily duplicating efforts to research NSC content. Does anyone out there have a list of the most common feed formulas that are on the lower half of the NSC continuum, fat additions, hays, etc.? I think this would be a great resource for everyone. And if nobody has such a list maybe we could all chip in what we know so we could compile a thorough list as a reference tool.

As far as feeds go I have access to the following brands: Nutrena, Purina, Triple Crown, FRM and am definitely interested in their lowER starch formulas even if not considered "low" starch. I am not limiting myself only to the "low" starch formulas because although I would like to limit starch to a certain degree not all my horses need very low starch...and some do.

Watermark Farm
Nov. 17, 2008, 12:25 AM
Have you checked the Yahoo!! Equine Cushings group? I seem to remember seeing info about this posted or archived there.

Simkie
Nov. 17, 2008, 12:37 AM
Triple Crown has their levels on their website: http://triplecrownfeed.com/news-soluble-carbohydrate-levels.php

Samotis
Nov. 17, 2008, 01:08 AM
Progressive Nutrition has very low starch in their Grass Balancer (less then 10%). If you go on their website prognutrition.com and contact Don on contacts page he can tell you all about the low starch in their feeds.

Great product and he does a lot of research.

JB
Nov. 17, 2008, 08:51 AM
Here is a list that someone on another board posted, with permission of whomever put the list together. It's only as of '06, so a few things might be a little out of date. In addition to this, you can get good information on forages, whole grains, and other things, from Equi-Analytical http://www.equi-analytical.com/CommonFeedProfiles/


NSC levels I have on file: June 2006 – updated December 2006

LMF - Low Carb Complete Stage 1 - 11% or less
LMF Senior - 30%

FARNAM
Platform Senior - 16.1%

BUCKEYE NUTRITION
Safe n’ Easy - 12.5% NSC pelleted, 16% - texturized (non tested)

BLUE SEAL:
Carb Guard - [FONT=Courier New]less than 11%
Vintage Gold - 32%
Vintage Mare Foal - 33%
Vintage Senior - 20%
Vintage Racer - 30%
Vintage Sweet - 35%
Vintage Victory 36%
Demand - 26%
Contender - 34%
Hunter - 33%
Trotter - 25%
Sport 40%
Strider - 42%
Charger - 39%
Pacer - 48%
Rider - 44%
Horse 10 - 45%

PROGRESSIVE PRODUCTS:
ProAdvantage grass formula (ration balancer): 13%
Lo-carb: 19%
Senior pelleted: 22%
Senior Textured: 24%
(was told they use Dairy One for testing) Chanda


POULIN:
Senior 31.3%
MVP - 17.4% (27% protein)
Stablemate 14 complete - 16.3%
Endure 10:12 - 33.7%
Endure 10:8 - 33.9%
Carb Safe - 10% or less

SEMINOLE
Happy Hoof - 15%

STERETT
Low Carb Complete (pelleted - hay) - 8.6%

TRIPLE CROWN:
10% performance - 41.5%
14% performance - 38.2%
Complete 21.7%
Senior - 15.7%
Growth - 19.8%
Low Starch - 15.0%
Lite - 15.9%
12% - 29.7%
Safe Starch Forage 10% or less guaranteed

PURINA:
Horse Chow 100 - 16%
Horse Chow 200 - 18%
Strategy - 28%
Omelene 100 - 40.5% (eeegads!)
Equine Adult - 20%
Equine Jr - 23%
Equine Sr - 22%
Complete Advantage 22.9% (beet pulp based)
Nature Essentials (Mare & Main) supplement - 16% (protein about 12-14%)
Nature Essentials Born to Win 16% (but 32% protein)

VITAROYAL - Linsey McLean
Hi Pro Plus (14.8-14.9 NSC) - high protein supplement- 29%
Hi Pro ULTRA ( 13.5% NSC)

NUTRENA -
SafeChoice - 22.8% (6.4% sugar, 16% starch) ( Solper)

REVOLUTION Feed - 19% NSC - Katy Watts - 12% fat (Equi tested)

Midwest Agri Commodities PLAIN Beet Pulp - 13.4 sugar, .6 starch = 13.9
NSC (melanie 4-17-06)

Midwest Agri Commodities PLAIN Beet Pulp (batch# K628202-03) meaning (K) Crookston plant, (6) meaning 2006, (282) meaning the 282nd day of the year and the (02) meaning the shift. 18.6% sugar, .8% starch = 19.4% NSC. This was tested twice for sugar as Dairy One did not believe the results of the sugar. 11-21-06 (Melanie)

BOSS - Black oil sunflower seeds. NSC 5.6%. 15-16% protein, 40% fat. 6 oz cup
weighs 3 oz.

Altamont Sport Horses
Dec. 26, 2008, 11:04 AM
Following info taken from http://www.equussource.com/docs/eq/0405_mp_carbtables.pdf Please check that link for more info. I pulled the NSC % and put here for quick reference. If you want to look up more check out http://www.equi-analytical.com/CommonFeedProfiles/disclaimer.asp I think it it has been updated a bit (they average samples taken over the years) but the following numbers are pretty close to what I took off the equussource table.

NSC Content

Alfalfa Cubes 10.2%
Alfalfa Pellets 9.3%
Barley 61.7%
Beet Pulp 12.3%
Corn 73.7%
Oats 54.1%
Rice Bran 21.2%
Wheat Bran 31.1%

Hays

Alfalfa Hay 11.3%
Barley Hay 20.4%
Bermuda Hay 13.6%
Grass Hay 13.8%
Oat Hay 22.1%

BornToRide
Dec. 26, 2008, 11:10 AM
How reliable are any of those sources/numbers? JB, Are they guranteed when it comes to processed feeds? I am asking because my gelding always gets too hot on alfalfa - he does not tolerate it at all, except in minor quantities and have seen similar problems in other horses as well around here, PNW.



Glucose and fructose percentages increased slightly but significantly from 6 AM to 12 N and declined to 6 PM in second and third growth alfalfa. About three times as much glucose as fructose was present. Sucrose comprised less than 3% of the dry matter, but varied considerably diurnally, generally increasing from 6 AM to 6 PM. Leaf starch increased from 10.2 to 20.3% of the dry matter during daylight hours, most of the increase occurring between 9 AM and 3 PM
http://agron.scijournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/63/5/719

gabz
Dec. 26, 2008, 01:06 PM
http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=168925&highlight=Non-structural

I had posted a list and then got updates from others. That's why some entries are red and some are bold. to show the updates.

Feedstuff NSC
Alfalfa Cubes 10.2%
Alfalfa Hay 11.3%
Alfalfa Pellets 9.3%
Barley 61.7%
Barley Hay 20.4%
Beet Pulp 12.3%
Bermudagrass Hay 13.6%
Corn 73.3%
Grass Hay 13.8%
Grass Pasture 12.1%
Oat Hay 22.1%
Oats 54.1%
Rice Bran 21.2%
Soybean Hulls 6.3%
Soybean Meal 16.2%
Wheat Bran 30.8%
Wheat Middlings 32.0%
Molasses 60%
Timothy Hay 15%

For complete Southern States listing go here: http://www.equussource.com/docs/eq/0...feedvalues.pdf (http://www.equussource.com/docs/eq/0208_horsefeedvalues.pdf)

Triple Crown Rice Bran 23%
Triple Crown Senior 12 %
Triple Crown Growth 14%
Triple Crown Complete 21%
Triple Crown Lite 9.3%
Triple Crown Low Starch 13.5%
Triple Crown 12% Supplement 24%
Triple Crown 30% Supplement 10%

Triple Crown 10 and 14 Performance 38%

Southern States 12% (protein) Textured 23.8%
Southern States 12% (protein) Pelleted 31.0%
Legends Maturity-pelleted 19.6%
Legends Performance Pelleted 12.9%
Legends Performance Textured 28.5%
Legends Show & Pleasure Textured 31.4%
Legends Show & Pleasure Pelleted 29.1%
Legends Fortified Rice bran extruded pellet 22.0%

Reliance Pleasure Textured 44.8%
Reliance Pleasure Pelleted 38.5%
Reliance High Fat Textured 38.8%
Reliance High Fat Pelleted 31.4%
Reliance All Grain Textured 45.1%
Reliance Hay Stretcher 28.5%

Purina Athlete 45%
Purina Strategy 26%
Purina Equine Senior 22%
Purina Adult 20%
Purina Ultium 16%
Purina Horse Chow 100 16%

and... please keep in mind that just because a feed has low NSC doesn't make it "safe" for metabolic-issue horses. A LOW NSC fed in HIGH amounts (like Horse Chow 100 or Equine Senior) is not much different than a very SMALL amount of HIGH NSC.
1 Cup (1/4 pound) of Purina Athlete at 45% is VERY VERY little Non-structural carbs.

mammadoc
Dec. 26, 2008, 01:23 PM
just wanted to thank everyone who posted w/ this info- very helpful!!!

luvmywalkers
Dec. 26, 2008, 02:15 PM
How reliable are any of those sources/numbers? JB, Are they guranteed when it comes to processed feeds? I am asking because my gelding always gets too hot on alfalfa - he does not tolerate it at all, except in minor quantities and have seen similar problems in other horses as well around here, PNW.

Alfalfa is part of all my horses' diet, and if they were to appear any less hot, I'd be worried ;)

grayarabs
Dec. 26, 2008, 03:15 PM
Does anyone know the NSC for orchard grass hay?

JB
Dec. 26, 2008, 04:00 PM
Does anyone know the NSC for orchard grass hay?
http://www.equi-analytical.com/CommonFeedProfiles/

That said, there is no set NSC for things like grass and hay, as there are too many variables. If it's of great concern for you/your horse, then you MUST get your particular hay tested.

Altamont Sport Horses
Dec. 26, 2008, 04:38 PM
Does anyone know the NSC for orchard grass hay?

I couldn't find an average but according to www.safergrass.org orchard grass hay is going to be higher in NSC like timothy, brome, etc. They have the highest genetic potential for NSC but what your orchard grass has as far as NSC is going to depend on the environmental conditions in which it was grown and WHEN it was cut (including time of day, how much rain there had been recently, etc.). You should check out the www.safergrass.org website to learn more about that.

grayarabs
Dec. 26, 2008, 05:38 PM
Tks. I could not find the NSC for orchard grass - but wonder - if it is soaked and rinsed - that would remove much of the sugar, yes? (how long to soak?).

JB
Dec. 26, 2008, 06:11 PM
Oh dang, OG isn't in that site is it :(

Yes, in general, cool-season grasses are going to be higher in NSC than warm season grasses, due to the weather they prefer - cooler nights with warm-ish sunny days, ie Spring and Fall. Warm-season grasses grow best in warm days AND warm nights. The warm nights help use up sugars accumulated during the day.

But, any given warm-season grass can be higher than a cool-season grass, all depending on the weather conditions in the couple of days leading up to cutting, the day of cutting, and when in the day the grass was cut.

That's why, if you're dealing with a metabolic horse, you either have to soak and drain, or you have to test. Assuming, based on the type of hay, doesn't cut it for those guys.

grayarabs
Dec. 26, 2008, 06:30 PM
Found this one reference to orchard grass - which I will have to re-read numerous times to understand.......
http://www.ecmagazine.net/Summer07/CarbConfusion.htm

At the bottom is a chart which mentions cool season grasses including orchard grass.
Now one might wonder why a gal in S. Texas is asking about orchard grass - which to my knowledge has never been seen or been available these parts.
I have written about this before - my horse with COPD/allergies - had another allergy panel run last week - which will be another topic soon - and he is apparently OK for orchard grass - not much else. (he lives on alfalfa pellet/cube diet and is sick of it).
One cannot buy orchard grass hay here - for horses - but one can for bunnies!!!
Yes - at Petsmart one can buy small bags of hay for bunnies - are you ready? - $5.00
for 16 oz. bought a couple of bags - to feed as a treat - some handfuls that I soak and rinse repeatedly - and hand feed. Makes for a happy horse and a poorer owner.
But worth it!!! I have soaked/rinsed orchard and bermuda. The bermuda water rinses almost clear. The orchard grass has "color" requiring much more effort - more soaking and rinsing. Is that sugar or what???!!! Yes, I feel daft arriving at the barn with little bags of bunny hay.

BornToRide
Dec. 26, 2008, 11:52 PM
Alfalfa is part of all my horses' diet, and if they were to appear any less hot, I'd be worried ;)I rather have a sensible horse who can focus, which mine could no longer while on alfalfa and all he got was one flake AM PM with one flake of grass hay. He's sensitive and hot enough without it :yes:

stuge
Dec. 27, 2008, 02:16 PM
Found this one reference to orchard grass - which I will have to re-read Yes - at Petsmart one can buy small bags of hay for bunnies - are you ready? - $5.00
for

Gosh it might be cheaper for you to split a truckload with someone! I am sure OG could be grown in TX. It can be grown here in SC. It is more expensive because it reguires more maintenace but it isn't typically outragously more expensive!

Altamont Sport Horses
Mar. 26, 2009, 10:03 PM
Can anyone recommend some feeds that are lower in starch (under 20%) AND soy free? I have access to the following major: Purina, Nutrena, Triple Crown, FRM.

florida foxhunter
Mar. 26, 2009, 10:31 PM
I just spoke to the nutritionist at Tribute Feed Co. He used to work for Buckeye.

Their Kalm Performer had 21% NSC

Kalm 'n 'EZ Pellets has 14%, and the textured is 18%

I have their ingredients book here.....both have soybean oil. Why do you care?

Katy Watts
Mar. 26, 2009, 10:44 PM
NSC content of any plant based product will be mostly dependent on the growing conditions. So none of the posted data can be applied to any other similar products or batches of feed made from similar products grown at another time or place.
It's a complete waste of time to attempt to make a 'list'. You have to test.

If you need more meaningful numbers, best thing to do is lobby your state Dept of Ag feed regulator to implement rules to require feed manufacturers to guarantee max carb levels on supposedly 'low carb' products. The Powers that Be are working on one now, and if the feed companies manage to get their way, it will be WAY too high for a lot of our metabolically challenged horses.
Katy

Altamont Sport Horses
Mar. 26, 2009, 11:13 PM
I just spoke to the nutritionist at Tribute Feed Co. He used to work for Buckeye.

Their Kalm Performer had 21% NSC

Kalm 'n 'EZ Pellets has 14%, and the textured is 18%

I have their ingredients book here.....both have soybean oil. Why do you care?

Soybean oil might not be a problem. The reason for avoiding soy is that we had some issues here indicating that some of my mares and fillies were sensitive to the phytoestrogens in soy. Problems resolved after removing soy from the diet.

Tribute Feeds are not available in my area. 280 miles to the nearest Tribute distributor according to their dealer search.

ChocoMare
Mar. 27, 2009, 06:58 AM
ASH: Have you considered EquiPride instead? It has no soy or sugar and is very low in NSCs. I just mix it with some beet pulp.

http://www.equilix.com/equipride.html

While there's only one Alabama distributor, Mr. Haralson is a love and will drive it you for free! He delivers to me regularly in Georgia. http://www.equilix.com/dealers_a.html

florida foxhunter
Mar. 27, 2009, 09:21 PM
I just looked at a bag of Seminole Feed, thier new Wellness formula. The "Performance Safe" is only NINE percent NCS........whew......with 20% fiber, 12% protien and 8% fat.......a very good pelleted feed...........

Whitfield Farm Hanoverians
Mar. 27, 2009, 11:52 PM
& Seminole Feed's ration balancer, Equalizer, is only 5% starch. Great stuff & my horses look good on it.

HiddenStars826
May. 19, 2009, 08:59 AM
I'm just resurrecting this to add on a couple values I have that aren't listed here, so we have them for a search. I wish we could sticky a master list for us or something, since this is such a recurring topic.

A Nutrena rep sent me these figures in July of 2008.

Nutrena Vitality Ultra - NSC 26.7%
Nutrena Vitality 10 - NSC 38.0%

spacehorse
May. 19, 2009, 11:49 AM
Does anyone have any info about Pennfield feeds?