Apparently no zero tolerance policy at Charles town

[Serendipitystable]

I'm new to this forum but wanted to share my experience. A friend and I went to New Holland on Nov 10, 2008 to pick up 2 horses we had previously ransomed from the kill pen. While waiting for our coggins papers, having already loaded our mares, we saw this beautiful gray TB being lead to an already full trailer having been sold through the sale. We bought her on the spot for $140 more than the dealer had paid. We ran her tattoo upon getting her home and found her to be September Princess and that she had run at Charles town on Oct 26, 2008 (just 2 weeks prior) under the trainer Ronney Brown. I called CT and questioned how this mare wound up at NH within days of leaving their track. They came back with some wacky story that Ronney Brown had GIVEN her and another mare to a Michael Peck? so he could use her to breed mules! The 'story' goes that the mares refused to stand for the jack (in Nov) so this Mike gave them to a Neil who took them to NH unbeknowst to Brown...right...all within a 2 week span. I found it odd that even though they all claimed to know NOTHING about the mare being at NH, they all seemed to know what dealer we bought her from (Frank Carper of Camelot sales in NJ) and how much he paid for her at NH! I did NOT give them this information. When I protested that Brown should have seen to the mare's safety, they told me they couldn't tell the trainer what to do with their horses...so much for zero tolerance. I'm now attempting to get in touch with Elaine C Bassford of Md, the mare's recorded owner to tell her what nearly happened to a mare she bred and raced and that she is now in a safe forever home. I'm assuming she will care, I hear she is highly thought of in the racing world. I think we should all call CT and INSIST they adopt a zero tolerance policy like Suffolk for one.

[Laurierace]

Its Charles Town for starters. Not that I disagree with the gist of your post, but there are more pressing issues to me than adopting a zero tolerance to slaughter policy there. I would be much happier if they looked after the horses that are on the grounds. They need a to get on the ball with real pre-race vet checks in the barns and again in the paddock and lastly at the gate like every other track in the region. Last time I was there they didn't even have a vet on staff at all so there were no checks at all.

[Serendipitystable]

I appreciate the correction. I'm not savvy to all the ins and outs in the TB racing world but I'm certainly getting an education ever since our trip to NH and all that has transpired since. I'm quite sure there are even more pressing issues at hand, this just happens to be another. Again, thank you for the correction, I shall attempt to fix my spelling error.

[Barbara L.]

It is very difficult to instate a zero tolerance policy when there is no support from the racetrack in helping place these horses. If neither the horsemen's association nor the racetrack are offering an alternate solution, ie. supporting of RACE Fund, or TRF, or establishing their own program, then the trainers really are backed into a corner.
That is not to say the trainers and owners are right in bailing out on their responsibilities to their horses, but how can a track forbid this when they offer no help at all?

The problem at all tracks should be attacked from the base on up, that is, working towards safer track surfaces, better medication rules, some kind of overseeing of the use of shock wave therapy, etc. Not sure how we can cut down on tapping," but all of these issues (and more) need to be addressed before we have any hope of caring for the huge numbers of "unwanted horses."

[Serendipitystable]

It is my understanding that there are indeed TB rescue groups on site at CT and they have offered their services to this Ronney Brown specifically. To the best of my knowledge, he gives them lips service but no horses. The Steward told me that they DO have canter and other rescue groupl in place and welcome them. Why not then insist the trainers seek out their services as other tracks do?

[Jessi P]

Just because they have a rescue organization in place or affiliated with the track does not mean when owner ABC says "Gimme $300 and get this horse out of my barn now" that there is actually anyone waiting and ready to do that. If an owner/trainer could take a horse over to the "rescue" organization's barn and drop it off and get $$ for it (even $100) everybody would line up to do that instead of sending them to the auction. That is getting them off the feed bill, and it's also getting them off the "payroll" so to speak. Every day you have that horse you are paying to feed & bed it (hay, shavings/straw & grain) train it, shoe it, paying a groom who might take great care of 4 horses but so-so care of 5 horses because you increased his workload by 25% (but I digress)....

I believe that if racetracks offered free euthanasia and removal for broken down (non rehab-able) horses owners would be more inclined to do that than pushing for the last $300-400 gotten by sending them to auction. It would be extremely good (but unlikely) if the track would also pay an owner the going killer price for his horse to NOT send it. However, the hard facts remain that this is not a communist country - we are all free to do with our property as we wish. And often that $300-400 is a weeks wages to the person selling the horse.

A very sweet girl in my barn had an unraced, unbroken 3 yo filly that she was given. She ended up PAYING someone $100 to take her so she didn't have to feed her anymore ($$). Times are tough.

Safer track surfaces and other research into making our industry safer for all involved is imperative.

[Serendipitystable]

I'm quite sure that everything you all say has merit but please enlighten me. Why are kudos being given to Suffolk in a prior post for their zero tolerance yet my posting about CT is generating nothing but 'excuses' for lack of a better word to explain their failure to follow Suffolk's suit???????? I'm very confused. It seems to me that if one track has the responsibility to institute such guidelines, they all should.

[Laurierace]

The track doesn't have the responsibility to do anything regarding the horse's welfare once he has left their grounds. That is why Suffolk is getting the kudos, they are going above and beyond. No one is disputing that it would be nice if all tracks were to follow Suffolk's lead, we are just pointing out that there are a great many things that need to be taken care of on the grounds before they start worrying about what is going on off the grounds. They have a long way to go before they are on even ground, then they can start concentrating on going above and beyond.

[caffeinated]

Just because they have a rescue organization in place or affiliated with the track does not mean when owner ABC says "Gimme $300 and get this horse out of my barn now" that there is actually anyone waiting and ready to do that.

Another important thing to consider. :)

The pockets of the groups working with/out of CT are not endlessly deep. Even trainers who work with CANTER may find they are unable to sell their horse to a private buyer in the time frame that they have. And groups can only take so many horses at any given time, considering their finances.

It's also my experience that track management is working on making things better- not just on this front but the ones that Laurie mentioned. I do think they are taking these things very seriously and investigating them. Because you're not seeing instant "banning" of trainers in press releases does not mean they're ignoring it.

[SuperSTB]

You know I kind of want to refrain from posting this but...

Recent story, track that has one of those zero tolerance policies.

Went to see a horse listed through a rescue. Show up and meet the owner/trainer. Horse not what we're looking for but he has 'others'. So his groom starts pulling horses out of their stalls. We see one that has potential. He said he'll get back to us on a 'price'. A few days later he does call with a price, which in my opinion is NUTS considering prior injuries and rehab needed. We find out a few days later that he dumps the horse for a couple hundred.

This is not UNCOMMON. Couple years ago we offered $1500 for a track horse where the owner decided he wanted $4000. Not 6 months later we come across the horse at auction for $550. Thankfully sold to people we knew and the horse was lucky to get a good home.

I understand that dealing with the 'general' public is a PIA for the track folks. Crap- I hate to deal with some of the crackpot tire kickers BUT why not just be realistic about the situation. Ask for reasonable prices.

[caffeinated]

That definitely happens, STB. But it's not like that behavior is exclusive to race trainers. :)

Just like in the broader horse world, some people overcharge, some undercharge. Some people know what they have and won't take a penny less, and other people don't have a clue and give away future superstars. And to be totally fair, buyers do the same things- many are insistent that one should never pay a certain amount for a horse off the track, even if they'd pay the $4K for an identical horse in a different setting.

Sort of a tangent from this thread, but I don't see that as any different from what you see on dreamhorse on any given day.

[eventchic33]

I happen to know a few trainers at CT and they would be in heaven if someone came to give their horses a good home. I also know one who Rarely sends their horses anywhere, the have 40 plus cripples and retirees on the farm. However with today's economy very few people have the money or time even if they do have the money.

[SuperSTB]

Caffinated- sorry my post was kind of tangent but I think the tracks would have better success and not have to rely so heavily on recues and adoption groups- if they can get the trainers and owners to think more realistically and be more open to dealing with the public.

I've been involved with track horses- TB and STB for years now. Many horses I've taken right off the track, rehoming or for myself. The reluctance for many trainers/owners to deal with 'selling' or 'rehoming' horses, while sometimes justified, I think they should just accept it as par for the course.

Now that times are tough- what purpose is it to apply a $5K pricetag to a lame track horse? He absolutely knew that he wasn't going to get anything if all but a couple hundred anyway. They aren't stupid people... Was he banking on a sympathy sale?

I think all tracks- along with their safety improvements- also discuss with their track folk better ways of dealing with horse after they've been run out.

Edite to add:

Not wanting to argue- yeah it's across the board for all equine peeps- just a vent of mine.

[Calamber]

Until and unless the breeders are required to pony up (sorry for the pun) for those horses that they produced I cannot see how it is equitable or a rational solution for a zero tolerance policy. I know I will hear the howls as everyone was so euphoric over those that have adopted that policy.

It just does not seem rational nor will it have an impact to hit the lowest of the economic strata of the racing world when those who do have the bucks are not being required to give a fig. Why not ban those who do not even kick in $300 - $500 for a horse that they bred and brought into this world? Might sound a bit militant but I am really not getting this great sigh of relief over the adoption of a zero tolerance policy. It is like taxing the poor at the same rate as those of the upper 10%. I hardly think this is a communistic stance. It would seem to me that perhaps if those who stood stallions would have to pay a fixed percentage of the stud fee and if not used within a given period of time, it could then be rolled over into another fund that could be managed by those who are in the real world about OTTB rescue. By that I mean those who do not believe it to be a mission orientation to take in unadoptable cripples and spend precious money keeping them pasture sound when many sound, useable horses are standing there not able to be brought into their program. There are many such sensible organizations. The recent JC program of $200,000 to help is pure and simple, a bad joke.

I realize this is coming at a very difficult time with the economy and that economic factors are going to force many of these issues to the fore, I just do not see kicking the small trainers when those who have 40 plus horses in their barns are really not being touched.

Why can they not have some funds for those who need the $300 - $400 for their horses? I realize there are many who do not need to be training but this is not the way to weed them out and all that is going to happen (in fact is happening) is that horses are going to start disappearing without a trace.

[SuperSTB]

Until and unless the breeder are required to pony up (sorry for the pun) for those horses that they produced I cannot see how it is equitable or a rational solution for a zero tolerance policy. I know I will hear the howls as everyone was so euphoric over those that have adopted that policy.

It just does not seem rational nor will it have an impact to hit the lowest of the economic strata of the racing world when those who do have the bucks are not being required to give a fig. Why not ban those who do not even kick in $300 - $500 for a horse that they bred and brought into this world? Might sound a bit militant but I am really not getting this great sigh of relief over the adoption of a zero tolerance policy. It is like taxing the poor at the same rate as those of the upper 10%. I hardly think this is a communistic stance. It would seem to me that perhaps if those who stood stallions would have to pay a fixed percentage of the stud fee and if not used within a given period of time, it could then be rolled over into another fund that could be managed by those who are in the real world about OTTB rescue. By that I mean those who believe it to be a mission orientation to take in unadoptable cripples and spend precious money keeping them pasture sound when many sound, useable horses are standing there not able to be brought into their program. There are many such sensible organizations. The recent JC program of $200,000 to help is pure and simple, a bad joke.

I realize this is coming at a very difficult time with the economy and that economic factors are going to force many of these issues to the fore, I just do not see kicking the small trainers when those who have 40 plus horses in their barns are really not being touched.

Why can they not have some funds for those who need the $300 - $400 for their horses? I realize there are many who do not need to be training but this is not the way to weed them out and all that is going to happen (in fact is happening) is that horses are going to start disappearing without a trace.

I don't know- I can't seem to see that making much of a difference. I actually like the idea of trackside euthanasia but man that would open up a can of angry worms wouldn't it!

[Calamber]

Why would it not make a difference, have you looked at any issues of the Blood Horse lately? Or, been in the situation of calling for a horse standing there in a kill pen and the breeder who certainly has as much or more responsibility for that horse standing there and being told "I am in support of slaughter, they are just like cows to me, just livestock", basically the attitude that you are just some crazy PETA nut for even caring about this.

Oddly enough I was not part of the drive to ban the slaughter of horses. The very term is enough to make me crazy, we are processing meat, not killing willy nilly. I am not in favor of the eating of horses but I am not a fanatic on this subject either. If these plants were here we will have the ability to do something about the conditions, and please do not tell me that since it was not done in the past we cannot be assured that they would be treated humanely in the future. Banning here was short sighted, the leaders did not fully think through what would happen, and now, many are unwilling to think about the number of horses that cannot be absorbed into the horse owning population in the country. The racing industry is not the only guilty party. This has been discussed ad nauseum and I do not want to derail this thread as I do appreciate the OP for allowing the opportunity to discuss something that is not discussed much (or allowed to be) in some other locations.

[RidersUP]

This is the one problem I have with C.T. They are trying to adopt a zero tolerance policy, however if you want to bring someone in to look at one of your horses ( who could very possibly be on the road to a great new home) they will no longer even give a day pass at the gate so they may come look at the horse. You must go to the racing office and get a day pass from the stewards. Now if its a day they are not in tough luck, or during live racing of course you won't get one then either. How are these horses suppose to have a shot at a new home when it is so difficult to just get into the barn area to look at them? I don't have a problem with making sure someone has a day pass, but why can't you get one at the stable gate like every other track in the U.S.? Does this make sense to anyone else?

[DickHertz]

In regards to Charles Town and scratching lame horsese, in fairness, over the past six-eight months they have been scratching 1-2 per night in the post parade.

[DeeThbd]

Until and unless the breeders are required to pony up (sorry for the pun) for those horses that they produced I cannot see happening) is that horses are going to start disappearing without a trace.
Thing is.....Ì'll use my three OTTB geldings as an example.
Gelding 1: sold by breeder as a weanling, raced for two other owners, won 4 races and a good number of places.
Gelding 2: sold by breeder to his trainer; made a good bit of money for his new owner before being given to me (won 8 races total for 2 consecutive owners)
Gelding 3: bought privately from his breeders, won 4 races, earned about $50K for them.
In each of their cases, their earnings far outstripped the small amounts they were purchased for from their breeders. None earned over $90K individually, but didn't disgrace themselves in lower claiming ranks.
At what point should the person (owner, not just trainer) who campaigned the horse and saw the bulk of the earnings for it also step up to the plate? I agree wholeheartedly that breeders need to be responsible, partly in care and partly in good breeding practices - but I also think that the owner who campaigns the horse has a vital role.
To clear up one misconception - the OWNER of the horse and the TRAINER of the horse are often two different entities...I have seen cases where the OWNER insists on the trainer "getting rid of" the horse, leaving the trainer desperately seeking a safe solution for the horse he looks at each day.
Dee

[SleepyFox]

if they can get the trainers and owners to think more realistically and be more open to dealing with the public.

STB, I agree with your point. But, let me share another story that might help explain. A friend of mine recently had a horse he needed to move. He knew it might have some value as a h/j and asked me what he should ask for it. Since he was choking on the high day rate at the track already, I told him to be glad to get whatever he could for the horse. He sold him for $1500 to a h/j trainer. Went to visit the horse and the h/j trainer starts bragging about how she'll sell him for $10k. That's great and all for her, but next time this guy has one to sell he's going to want a really high price. And probably hold out for it until he realizes he can't keep paying the day rate at which time he'll try to bail on the horse for a cheap price (this guy WILL find a good home - don't worry).

I've also had people buy horses for cheap prices and as they load up say "Wow, I'm going to make a killing reselling this guy!" It always makes me think I just made an idiot move and should have charged more. So - my advice to OTTB buyers is - be appreciative and humble if you want to keep the prices down. ;)

[Xctrygirl]

This is the one problem I have with C.T. They are trying to adopt a zero tolerance policy, however if you want to bring someone in to look at one of your horses ( who could very possibly be on the road to a great new home) they will no longer even give a day pass at the gate so they may come look at the horse. You must go to the racing office and get a day pass from the stewards. Now if its a day they are not in tough luck, or during live racing of course you won't get one then either. How are these horses suppose to have a shot at a new home when it is so difficult to just get into the barn area to look at them? I don't have a problem with making sure someone has a day pass, but why can't you get one at the stable gate like every other track in the U.S.? Does this make sense to anyone else?

There is a middle ground, and I realize its not terribly convienient, but you can walk a horse across the street from the track stabling to the 'private' at the track stables, or meet at the vet clinic. Those barns are accessible to the public.

~Emily

[caffeinated]

This is the one problem I have with C.T. They are trying to adopt a zero tolerance policy, however if you want to bring someone in to look at one of your horses ( who could very possibly be on the road to a great new home) they will no longer even give a day pass at the gate so they may come look at the horse. You must go to the racing office and get a day pass from the stewards. Now if its a day they are not in tough luck, or during live racing of course you won't get one then either. How are these horses suppose to have a shot at a new home when it is so difficult to just get into the barn area to look at them? I don't have a problem with making sure someone has a day pass, but why can't you get one at the stable gate like every other track in the U.S.? Does this make sense to anyone else?

A new security company took over recently, but last I knew (and yes, I've had trouble getting day passes) a trainer on the track could still sign a person into the backside at the gate. In recent months when our regular day pass wasn't where it was supposed to be, I just called a trainer to the gate to sign us in, and it worked just fine.

[DickHertz]

Trainers can sign people in for day passes at Charles Town. Just did it this morning.

[jengersnap]

I've also had people buy horses for cheap prices and as they load up say "Wow, I'm going to make a killing reselling this guy!" It always makes me think I just made an idiot move and should have charged more. So - my advice to OTTB buyers is - be appreciative and humble if you want to keep the prices down. ;)

The way I rationalize things, if I sell a horse for, say, $2000, and I figure the person is banking on probably $8000 - $13000 return on their investment, I think good for them. They feel they have the skill and see the tallent to bring out of the horse and at that echelon of pricing the horse should be well provided for and an appropriately skilled/advanced rider would be the target buyer. They also incure the equivalent of the expenses of training, upkeep and marketing of the horse, and run all the typical risks involved with horses where they could step out of the stall the next day and break a leg (seen that once, very sad). It's a calculated risk.

I can put some miles and a set of brakes on a horse off the track, but I've neither the skill nor the time to start a horse over jumps or work on their gaits, and most times I don't even have the time to do the miles part either. I've a small group I initially let know when a horse is available, and we don't kid each other. They either are looking for themselves, or looking to polish and shine, and I know what sort of abilities they already have and I have an idea what I want for the horse. Usually we're close to agreement from the first contact. I get inquiries throughout the year, they get good horses from a contact they trust due to history, and the horses move smoothly on to a new career.

Back on topic, these tracks with reputations like CT attract bottom priced horses and their connections are often trying to keep them patched up long enough to pay back their investments. They are not generally connected with the rest of the horseriding world outside the tracks, and do not know what an OTTB prospect should go for. When I had one of my repeat buyers (circuit h/j's) down picking up a horse, another trainer caught wind and asked if I could pull his 3 year old out and show her to them. I asked him what he would want for her, and he replied oh, about $5,000. All I knew about the mare is I'd seen her out on the track once or twice, but she'd never run. I thought she better be nicer up close then what I recalled, and even then he's likely dreaming.

They decided to have a look, why not since they were there, and I grabbed a lead. I pulled out this 15 and a little high nondescript fine framed filly lean on the ribcage, dull coat and missing a shoe. I think I could hear the intake of their collective breaths, as they were use to seeing my sleek, shiney, sharp-eyed eye candy. I couldn't have said it better then their looks did; I wouldn't have given him a fifth the asking price either. She looked a few steps up from the worst of what would go through the local auction in the winter in my opinion. But he'd had all this money into her, bred her himself, and so he was blind to what he really had. There's a lot of track culture that could use a real wakeup call.

[Calamber]

Dee, I did not mean that the owners and or trainers who also profit from these horses should not be included. Of course, everyone who makes money should have to help. Where there is a will there is a way, the money is tracked, they know who makes the most out of these horses which, nine times out of ten, is the owner. Absolutely they should also kick in, I was remarking on the policy which is being ballyhooed everywhere about how nice it is that Suffolk, etc. are banning trainers. These folks are at the end of the money line mostly. Make the situation equitable and make it stick. If the low level or any level trainer is going to be banned, include the owner, include the breeder. Simple.

Also to be factored in are the breeder bonuses for those who do not own or train the horse but benefit. Just seems like someone does not want to take this to the level at which it will really make a difference. It is a crying shame that the momentum and the passionate after effects of Eight Belles death should result in only this and the other ballyhooed Safety and Integrity deal of the NTRA. Take a look at the actual profit margins of those casinos like Charles Town and Mountaineer. There is another nice big lucrative pile of cash which is siphoned off of the betting public anyway. Why not ask them if they would like to see some percentage of the revenues that they have been lured into spending go to keep horses from the meat plants?

I just was completely floored by the stud ads in recent copies of The Blood Horse, and the fees, the ad prices and the cost of printing alone for that issue! Wowza!

[Acertainsmile]

The problem at CT and the sale of horses is the purses... even if a horse can win near the bottom ($5000) the purse will pay well... it used to not be like this, and horses before slot money could be had cheap.

Therefor, unrealistic trainers have a hard time letting anything out of the barn (unless it is broke down) for less then the bottom claiming price...

[RidersUP]

Good to know Dick......3 weeks ago they were on the no day passes given at the gate kick....I seriously had to go all the way to the stewards office for one

[Calamber]

RidersUp, I agree they need to make the horses that are available more accessible but they cannot just allow people to wander around the backside of a racetrack. Insurance issues aside, it is not a safe place to be if you are not experienced with the workings of the place. Just like in any plant where the very real possibility of being killed is inherent, the general population is not allowed.

There are ways to work around all of this but the backside of a racetrack is not an auction facility. They could have a barn or place set aside (does not need to be at the actual track), for the horses to go where they can be looked at.

I have to thoroughly agree with the poster who said the track culture needs a sharp wake up call. You do have to know that just because someone has a race horse trainer's license does not make them a horseman or woman.
Pulling an unthrifty, ribby horse out of a stall and saying " I would like $5,000 for her". Well I would like $15,000 for my horse off the track for two years that I have rehabbed and retrained in the basics of gait, manners, bending and evaluated for it's possible talents but there is the real world.:winkgrin:

[SuperSTB]

The way I rationalize things, if I sell a horse for, say, $2000, and I figure the person is banking on probably $8000 - $13000 return on their investment, I think good for them. They feel they have the skill and see the tallent to bring out of the horse and at that echelon of pricing the horse should be well provided for and an appropriately skilled/advanced rider would be the target buyer. They also incure the equivalent of the expenses of training, upkeep and marketing of the horse, and run all the typical risks involved with horses where they could step out of the stall the next day and break a leg (seen that once, very sad). It's a calculated risk.

I can put some miles and a set of brakes on a horse off the track, but I've neither the skill nor the time to start a horse over jumps or work on their gaits, and most times I don't even have the time to do the miles part either. I've a small group I initially let know when a horse is available, and we don't kid each other. They either are looking for themselves, or looking to polish and shine, and I know what sort of abilities they already have and I have an idea what I want for the horse. Usually we're close to agreement from the first contact. I get inquiries throughout the year, they get good horses from a contact they trust due to history, and the horses move smoothly on to a new career.

Back on topic, these tracks with reputations like CT attract bottom priced horses and their connections are often trying to keep them patched up long enough to pay back their investments. They are not generally connected with the rest of the horseriding world outside the tracks, and do not know what an OTTB prospect should go for. When I had one of my repeat buyers (circuit h/j's) down picking up a horse, another trainer caught wind and asked if I could pull his 3 year old out and show her to them. I asked him what he would want for her, and he replied oh, about $5,000. All I knew about the mare is I'd seen her out on the track once or twice, but she'd never run. I thought she better be nicer up close then what I recalled, and even then he's likely dreaming.

They decided to have a look, why not since they were there, and I grabbed a lead. I pulled out this 15 and a little high nondescript fine framed filly lean on the ribcage, dull coat and missing a shoe. I think I could hear the intake of their collective breaths, as they were use to seeing my sleek, shiney, sharp-eyed eye candy. I couldn't have said it better then their looks did; I wouldn't have given him a fifth the asking price either. She looked a few steps up from the worst of what would go through the local auction in the winter in my opinion. But he'd had all this money into her, bred her himself, and so he was blind to what he really had. There's a lot of track culture that could use a real wakeup call.

Absolutely my point about being realistic.

There is a crap load of risk for any person taking horses off the track to begin with and quite honestly with there being so many horses... race trainers and owners need to realize this. If they have the resources and capapbility to turn a track horse into a successful non-racing campaigner- well excellent for them and they have the op to get that $10K+ H/J or dressage or whatever horse.

Some of my experiences involve standardbreds- they actually have a market in the Amish communities. There have been certain standies that amish have paid considedrable money for... $5K+ so I understand the trainers who *hold out* if you will for those buyers they know are there. Overall however the odds are those buyers are few and far in between.

It is what it is... but overall I think the no slaughter policy is good in that it's pushing the envelope if you will. Making people rethink the consequences of their actions. Of course more strides are needed to support some of these folks. The tracks are now saying... hey you can't do that... and the message is being heard. Now it's time for the resources to back up issue. Hopefully before it's labelled a miserable failure and everyone is forced acked to before square one.

[GollyGee]

OK just to clear up a few relevent issues.
There is n accredited fully sanctioned veterinarian on the race side every race who looks @ horses in the paddock and sees them warm-up before loading in the gate.
He has a very high rate of scratching unsound horses who are then required to "work" in front of him "sound" before being removed from the vets list.
I have been a victum of the new rules to enter the grounds, the best way to alleiveate this issue to make an appointment and have the trainer get you a pass, drive bys just don't work any more.
You absolutely have to have a stewards pass no exceptions unless you have a license. You can NOT just walk a horse across the street to the vet clinic or private barn. Its impossible to walk they must be van/trailered and have a health cert and a in slip, there are NO exceptions. Go in the early AM and see how the training works no foot traffic back and forth across the road anymore.
I routinely buy quite a number of OTTB's with a high re-sale success. The trainers nor the owners have ever been bitter or price gouged me on return trips. Quite the contrary they are thrilled to see the horses get new careers and once an esablished relationship evolves they will call you 1st w/ the best horses @ fair prices. They want them gone and new horses in the stalls who can win races Only the fools hold out.
What are they supposed to do w/ small chronically unsound, bad conformation bad vices and mentally unsuitable to become riding horses.
Its not always the trainers fault they train what the owners buy/present them. You can't always pick and choose or they will go broke for lack of day money which @Charelstown is about $45.00 day compared to say NY trainer @ $150.00 day.
The breeders need to be more responsible, 100 plus mares to stallions w/ open unending books who then ship to another hemisphere when our season ends here is where people need to stop and think. PS only 20% or less of all horses going to slaughter are registered race horses i.e. TB or STB's:D

[GollyGee]

I'm quite sure that everything you all say has merit but please enlighten me. Why are kudos being given to Suffolk in a prior post for their zero tolerance yet my posting about CT is generating nothing but 'excuses' for lack of a better word to explain their failure to follow Suffolk's suit???????? I'm very confused. It seems to me that if one track has the responsibility to institute such guidelines, they all should.
Suffold has twice as many horses waiting to get intothe rescue barn than they have stalls for, the reality is when the owners stop paying day $$ on none producing viable race horses and the trainers can afford help/fee/vet bills the horses will get abandonded.
The other industries that used to help absorb OTTB's spend their $$ on WB's.
Even though the top 3-Day Event horses are TB's.
so many myths about OTTB's need to be debunked and the unfortunate ones who for all the reasons won't or can't make it need to just be euthanized @ a reasonable cost shared w/ track/owner/trainers. With this inplace horses who meet a predermined criteria will be humanly put out of pain and mental misery.
There are top flight racing stable who you never see or hear of retiring or sell or giving away their lovely race horses. They euthanize them when there acreers are over and the horses are heard from again, end of story. Why because they don't want a call form NH or any other slaughter auction site saying you good old allowance gelding just surfaced here.