Troubles Jumping From The Trot - Any Tips

[tlw]

I've always found it difficult to jump smoothly from the trot. I just can't seem to feel the movement at the moment of take off and generally get left behind - not badly enough to bump my horse in the mouth but left none the less. If I grab mane then I tend to drop my horse at the base of the jump and she stalls - even with my leg on. Anybody have any tips, other than just practicing? BTW, we are very competent at training level jumping (qualified for the AECs) its just the trot thing that gets us. Obviously a lack of proper early foundation in my training. Thanks.

[BaroquePony]

trotting cavaletti with a jump made from two stacked cavaletti at the end of the line ... ride it on a long rein


ps. and don't look down, "look to the next jump"

[Auburn]

I agree with Baroque Pony. If you are looking at the jump, then you will often anticipate the take off. You start to go when you think that he is going, instead of waiting for the feel of him, shifting his weight.

You could make a small jump shoot on the sides of the jump. Have a ground pole (some folks call it a placing pole), which is set 7ft. away from the base of the jump. The pole will set your horse up for the correct distance. When you reach the edge of the shoot, close your eyes. Feel when your horse starts to rock back and push off, then follow him. That has worked for me.

[KBG Eventer]

I agree with Baroque Pony. If you are looking at the jump, then you will often anticipate the take off. You start to go when you think that he is going, instead of waiting for the feel of him, shifting his weight.

You could make a small jump shoot on the sides of the jump. Have a ground pole (some folks call it a placing pole), which is set 7ft. away from the base of the jump. The pole will set your horse up for the correct distance. When you reach the edge of the shoot, close your eyes. Feel when your horse starts to rock back and push off, then follow him. That has worked for me.

I used to always look at the jump and then ahead or to my next jump. However, a couple of months ago Jimmy Wofford wrote his article in PH about looking at the jump between the horse's ears until you can't see it then looking ahead or the next jump. Right after that I did a PC clinic with Sharon Anthony, and she had us do that the first day doing grids as well as when we schooled cross country the next day. I found it really helped my timing! Maybe you are talking about looking at the jump over the top of the fence though? Sorry if I misunderstood.

[RunForIt]

I've always found it difficult to jump smoothly from the trot. I just can't seem to feel the movement at the moment of take off and generally get left behind - not badly enough to bump my horse in the mouth but left none the less. If I grab mane then I tend to drop my horse at the base of the jump and she stalls - even with my leg on. Anybody have any tips, other than just practicing? BTW, we are very competent at training level jumping (qualified for the AECs) its just the trot thing that gets us. Obviously a lack of proper early foundation in my training. Thanks.

Thanks so much for starting this thread...I too have a horrible time feeling the horse going up and over and get left more times than not. My only strategy is like you - grab mane or a neck strap..

Cantering to jumps is just the opposite - I "see" the jump by feeling the rhythm of the canter - can't figure it out at the trot. Have been watching all the videos I can of folks jumping out of trot.... :yes: :D :cool:

[RunForIt]

I agree with Baroque Pony. If you are looking at the jump, then you will often anticipate the take off. You start to go when you think that he is going, instead of waiting for the feel of him, shifting his weight.

You could make a small jump shoot on the sides of the jump. Have a ground pole (some folks call it a placing pole), which is set 7ft. away from the base of the jump. The pole will set your horse up for the correct distance. When you reach the edge of the shoot, close your eyes. Feel when your horse starts to rock back and push off, then follow him. That has worked for me.

how far back from the jump should the chute end - at the point where you place the ground pole?

[cjmicro]

An exercise (I believe one of JW exercises) I have been told to do is post all the way through. like just KEEP posting, and the horses takeoff then pushes you out of the saddle when and where you should be. It's a cool feeling, really hard to just KEEP posting but it works and gives you a new appreciation for when you should be getting out of the saddle anyway. Try it sometime!!

Cheryl

[tlw]

Thanks all. On my way out to he barn to try the suggestions out.

[VCT]

Post in a sort of 3/4 seat all the way to the jump. Think about sticking your butt out behind you more in that 3/4 seat instead of letting your upper body get more forward. If you are already in that butt sticking out back 3/4 seat posting then when he jumps it will just help you fold naturally at the hip. You don't have to do the 3/4 seat thing all the way around... only maybe from the corner out to the jump, or maybe the last 5 or 6 strides if you are on a straight away or long approach. It shouldn't be a huge change in your body/posting that will effect your horse (unless, I guess, if they are super sensitive)... it's a subtle thing.. but it makes a big difference.

Good Luck, I hate jumping from a trot too, but this has helped me to not get "out of sync" with my horse trotting small fences.

[subk]

Four poles on the ground 4 1/2 feet apart. 9 feet to small (18"-24") cross rail.

Like this: I .... I .... I .... I ............ X (ignore the periods)

Posting trot through. Concentrate on the first pole until it disappears between the horse's ears then move eye up along each rail to cross rail until it too disappears then put your eye forward where you'll be riding. Since the crossrail is so small your "jumping position" need not be any more forward than you are at the top of your post. So think about staying with the rhythm instead of "getting into jumping position." But you're really concentrating on the rhythm through the exercise. Feel how it has a quick taptap before take off.

Like this: trot .... trot .... trot .... trot .... trottrot..jump..land.

The "trottrot" part is the rhythm that happens as the horse brings his hind legs up and plants them just behind his front legs at the moment before he pushes off. If it helps you to talk, try counting UP out loud: one .... two .... three .... four .... fivesix (I of course can't talk coherently and ride at the same time--but there are more talented folks out there!)

This little rhythm thing is so important that every gymnastic I run a horse through starts with these four poles to a small cross rail. You can go on and do the most technical monster gymnastics the stride after the crossrail and I swear if you get a great rhythm through this part the rest of the hard stuff will be easy.

[RunForIt]

Four poles on the ground 4 1/2 feet apart. 9 feet to small (18"-24") cross rail.

Like this: I .... I .... I .... I ............ X (ignore the periods)

Posting trot through. Concentrate on the first pole until it disappears between the horse's ears then move eye up along each rail to cross rail until it too disappears then put your eye forward where you'll be riding. Since the crossrail is so small your "jumping position" need not be any more forward than you are at the top of your post. So think about staying with the rhythm instead of "getting into jumping position." But you're really concentrating on the rhythm through the exercise. Feel how it has a quick taptap before take off.

Like this: trot .... trot .... trot .... trot .... trottrot..jump..land.

The "trottrot" part is the rhythm that happens as the horse brings his hind legs up and plants them just behind his front legs at the moment before he pushes off. If it helps you to talk, try counting UP out loud: one .... two .... three .... four .... fivesix (I of course can't talk coherently and ride at the same time--but there are more talented folks out there!)

This little rhythm thing is so important that every gymnastic I run a horse through starts with these four poles to a small cross rail. You can go on and do the most technical monster gymnastics the stride after the crossrail and I swear if you get a great rhythm through this part the rest of the hard stuff will be easy.

I just saved this to my "subk lessons" file - you wouldn't believe its depth!

I can feel the rhythm of the canter in relation to the jumping effort of the horse - hence less problems. Your explanation of the "trot/trot" rhythm may work out to be my "getting it". Sometimes takes a village...

[Tuckertoo]

Post in a sort of 3/4 seat all the way to the jump. Think about sticking your butt out behind you more in that 3/4 seat instead of letting your upper body get more forward. If you are already in that butt sticking out back 3/4 seat posting then when he jumps it will just help you fold naturally at the hip. You don't have to do the 3/4 seat thing all the way around... only maybe from the corner out to the jump, or maybe the last 5 or 6 strides if you are on a straight away or long approach. It shouldn't be a huge change in your body/posting that will effect your horse (unless, I guess, if they are super sensitive)... it's a subtle thing.. but it makes a big difference.

Good Luck, I hate jumping from a trot too, but this has helped me to not get "out of sync" with my horse trotting small fences.



This helps me, too. I had a couple of lessons with a H/J trainer from my area two winters ago and she called this the "sinking position". It's not quite half seat but you're not sitting either. You just kind of sink into it. She would have me go into this position at the first trot pole in the series of 4 like subk posted and then I would stay in the "sinking position" all the way through. The jumping motion of the horse pushes you the rest of the way up over the jump so you don't really need to make any more of an effort.

I'll have to try just posting all the way through. I guess I've always thought that I was posting to the base of the jump, but subconciously I've always looked for the spot then jumped ahead. I think the key for me is to just not look at the jump once it disappears below the horse's ears. I over analyze and get myself into big trouble when I anticipate and jump ahead.:yes:

[DLee]

I actually have found I'm more likely to get left behind when I am posting the trot, so I do it in half seat. That way I am in the right position and much less likely to throw myself forward or get left. My horses are quiet enough that they don't need me posting to help keep their rhythm, so it works well for me. Good luck!

[NRB]

I set up all my grids like Subk mentioned. 3 to 5 trot poles placed 4'6" apart then 9' from that last pole set your first fence. ( as an option continue on and at 18 feet place the second fence at 21 place the third......the standard 18 to 21 grid.) you will trot in and trot the first fence, (then land in canter and canter the next 2.) Jimmy W also asks his riders to identify and tell him which leg the horse picked up First over the trot jump.

so that's your standard run of the mill trot grid. the next fun thing to do is trot a single vertical fence on it's own. The highest I've done is 3'3" from a trot. And I've always maintained that any horse can trot a 3' fence. Unfortuantly I have an British Inst who maintains that any good event horse should be able to trot a 4' vertical. I'm perfectly happy with 3'3".

[Xctrygirl]

Clearly NRB doesn't recall the time she trotted a 3'6" vertical with Sailor. I do!!

I bought a horse from Hall of Fame Steeplechase trainer, D.M. "Mickey" Smithwick. EVERY horse at his farm was schooled, at the trot, over every fence on his property. There truly are not words for how well schooled and tight jumpers my horse and his others were.

Let me paint a clearer picture...a "jump" at Mickey's would include fallen tree branches, bound with WIRE between two close trees. The branch was almost never level!! One end would be 2'9 the other 4'3

Ever since spending some time with him and watching him school his horses, I have always tried to at least spend some time trotting anything and everything. Wheelbarrows, ditches, high verticals, and single tires, and on and on.

I agree with Mickey that it absolutely gives the horses more confidence and the riders learn to jump anything from a canter or gallop b/c they know the horse will be able to handle it.

The grids that were suggested are great, but the trot rails will always get you there. Thats great to remind you of the feel, but don't get too reliant on the placing rails. Get out there and keep trotting single fences and find your rythmn on the single fences also.

Just my thoughts.

~Emily

[lstevenson]

I hate trotting fences too. I think most of us do.

Try this (yet another Jimmy W excercise). Trot up to a vertical, watching the top of the rail until your horse's head blocks your sight of it. Then look up and count how many strides your horse takes (just count front leg steps) before he takes off. This makes you wait for the horse to jump and makes you focus on the present.

And I have found that trotting into rows of bounces helps, as with bounces coming up the rider tends to wait and let the horse close their angles.

Also when posting the trot into fences I often tell people to come close to sitting in the last stride or two. IOW you want the horse to take off while you are down, and not going up into a posting motion.

[RunForIt]

Its so wierd, if I sit the trot, there isn't a problem (or not as much of a problem, LOL :lol: )...its the posting that seems to undo my feel for the horse and the jumping motion. :confused: :cool:

[lstevenson]

Its so wierd, if I sit the trot, there isn't a problem (or not as much of a problem, LOL :lol: )...its the posting that seems to undo my feel for the horse and the jumping motion. :confused: :cool:


Then try the exercise I suggested, and when the horse's head blocks your view of the jump look up and sit for what will probably two strides before your horse takes off. When that's going well, wait one stride further before sitting and you will be just sitting the last stride. And when I say sitting, I mean that term loosely. You can just think "stop posting" and your seat may not even be really in the saddle, but it will help you wait for your horse at takeoff.

[RunForIt]

Then try the exercise I suggested, and when the horse's head blocks your view of the jump look up and sit for what will probably two strides before your horse takes off. When that's going well, wait one stride further before sitting and you will be just sitting the last stride. And when I say sitting, I mean that term loosely. You can just think "stop posting" and your seat may not even be really in the saddle, but it will help you wait for your horse at takeoff.

yeah, when I read your post it hit me, sitting the last couple of strides is NEVER a problem...will definitely try your suggestion - THANKS!

[NRB]

Clearly NRB doesn't recall the time she trotted a 3'6" vertical with Sailor. I do!! ~Emily

Well I do have a really terrible memory. Which is too bad, I'd love to remember trotting Sailor over a 3'6" fence.

I do remember jumping (from canter) a 5' oxer in a Bruce D clinic at GFS. I came off mid air....so I must have stayed on Sailor over the 3'6" since I don't seem to remember it. FWIW I do trust Emily's memory better than my own.

My jump lesson this afternoon I had to trot everything as horse had total lapse of confidence (more like brain melt down). So I ended up trotting everything, the verts, the combinations and the oxers....all set low, like in the 2' to 2'6" range..

Sorry haven't read all the responses. But if appropriate try jumping with your eyes closed. Best done with buddy on the ground watching. My inst. will make me jump fences blind when we are rushing. And what do ya know he jumps perfectly fine and in a nice rhythm when I close my eyes. Again only do this if you afeel comfortable, I close eyes about 3 strides out.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I HATE trotting fences and am not good at it. but it is good for you and the horse. The thing about posting to the base instead of sitting is the posting helps the horse keep its rhythm and helps them put in those last steps.

I had one horse that I use to trot 4'9" (when I was younger/braver/better rider)....sucker could jump and there is nothing harder for a rider than staring at a fence almost eye level and waiting in the trot....talk about practicing your guts. Trotting bigger fences REALLY makes you learn to wait for your horse to leave the ground! I'm pretty sure I would fall off if I tried to do that now! But I had my mare a few weeks ago break to the trot in front of a 3'3" oxer in sj at training level. I had to control my gut reaction to run her back into canter and just post and let her trot that oxer. It was one of her better fences. Getting comfortable at trotting fences is a very important skill and one that many MANY of us have to work on all the time.

I think most of these tips are great but do what you can to learn how to post all the way until they leave the ground.....and just know that you are not the only one to struggle (and KEEP struggling with it...damn you would think after trotting them for all these years I would get better about it!!!!)

[Carol Ames]

I,too was going to mention jimmy woffords':yes::lol: method; important to remember is , when you can no longer see the jump, close your legs, count 1,2 look up and let the horse jump ; think he intended this for the crossrail,into a gymnastic,it works overslighter bigger fences:yes: He also made a comment about Burt deNemethy, and trotting fences but, i don't remember exactly what it was, does anyone here remember?I think it was, that he sank into the saddle the last few strides before the fence; does anyone here :confused:remember?





ot the jump and then ahead or to my next jump. However, a couple of months ago Jimmy Wofford wrote his article in PH about looking at the jump between the horse's ears until you can't see it then looking ahead or the next jump. Right after that I did a PC clinic with Sharon Anthony, and she had us do that the first day doing grids as well as when we schooled cross country the next day. I found it really helped my timing! Maybe you are talking about looking at the jump over the top of the fence though? Sorry if I misunderstood. __________________
T3DE 2010

[Kairoshorses]

Thanks, everyone, and tlw for posting! I need to try these out, too. JW is my hero; and one of my buggaboos is jumping ahead in SJ...so I'm going to try all of these. By golly, maybe SOMEDAY, if JW ever comes to TX, I can clinic w/ him and not be ashamed! :lol:

[flyingchange]

Something that helps me is to close my eyes about 20 feet out from the jump. Then I can't interfere. I do this if/when I am having trouble getting into sync with my horse. Gretchen Butts got me to do it a couple of years ago and it really helps. It also helps to let go of the reins and put my hands/arms out to my left and right on the approach - which forces me to think more about balancing and being with the horse than about finding the spot. Also thinking about things like impulsing from behind, lightness, your line, your plan after the jump - thinking about all these things helps me focus on things besides the spot and gives my horse the freedom to get there on his own without me interfering.

I like using the cavelleti in front of the jumps but I agree with xcgirl not to become too dependent on them and to remove them at some point or at least once in a while.

[Xctrygirl]

I was tortured at work with this today!!!

I had to trot into a vertical, that rose to 3'3" or so.

Then an oxer that got to 3'6"

And then into a quadruple bounce.

After that into a gymnastics line that started with a bounce through two cavaletti's/

All of this was great to practice, and only had ground rails on about half of it. The big lightbulb moment came during the second set. My first horse is a 17.3~18H Irish Sport horse, who knows his job and is very confident.

But horse number 2 is a 6 yr old OTTB 16.2 is but long who is learning to use his shoulders, and he sometimes has his shoulders under the rail and behind the standards!!! :eek:

What made it worse is that my boss believes that you don't stop and walk between exercises or times through the grids. So it amounted to two- 40 minute jumping sessions, over and over. I am aching like hell, but hopefully the horses are ok. They both jumped great once I figured that I could send the Irish horse, but had to find the very small pressure that the TB needed to understand "Go...just not fast!"

~Emily

[RunForIt]

Something that helps me is to close my eyes about 20 feet out from the jump. Then I can't interfere. I do this if/when I am having trouble getting into sync with my horse. Gretchen Butts got me to do it a couple of years ago and it really helps. It also helps to let go of the reins and put my hands/arms out to my left and right on the approach - which forces me to think more about balancing and being with the horse than about finding the spot. Also thinking about things like impulsing from behind, lightness, your line, your plan after the jump - thinking about all these things helps me focus on things besides the spot and gives my horse the freedom to get there on his own without me interfering.

I like using the cavelleti in front of the jumps but I agree with xcgirl not to become too dependent on them and to remove them at some point or at least once in a while.

Where Gretchen leads, I am so happy to follow...

Thanks for making hte trail! (aren't you LUCKY, FORTUNATE, to have the benefit of such a super person...AND did you know she has run a marathon - guess which one...similar to running/completing Rolex as a 9-5 traditional job/ ride my horse - !?!) I SO WISH I COULD TRAIN WITH GRETCHEN!!! RIDE AT WAREDACA!!!:cool:

[JER]

I love trotting fences. Seriously.

I almost never jump in canter until a horse is adjustable in the canter so I trot a lot of fences. Good things about jumping from trot are (1) you learn you don't need speed and (2) the horse doesn't miss in trot.

My old Prelim horse drops to the trot when he has questions about what's in front of him. He still goes, just from the trot. He hunted for a loooong time and knows how to look after himself. I learned not to mess with his skill set -- he would go to trot without losing impulsion, which was fine with me as he was very, very honest. (And when he jumps out of the pasture now, he does it from trot.)

I also like the eyes-closed exercise. You need to develop feel and forget what it looks like.

Good luck.

[KBG Eventer]

I actually kind of like jumping from the trot too! I haven't done a whole lot of it, but I am going to try it more now. My horse is a Paint who is very honest and simple, but he doesn't have a lot of natural impulsion/airtime in his movement. Is it normal to feel a litttlllee bit like "Ack" when you start trotting more fences other than into grids? I know if I have him on my aids and in a good, forward trot he can definitely do it (he is a good jumper...never touches a rail unless I really mess up, and he has really cute, square knees), but I think it will be a bit nervewracking at first anyways wondering if he can get over the jump! :lol:

[tlw]

OK, I have to admit it, JW is the inspiration behind my OP. If I don't have to trot a jump in warm up I don't. I just start at the canter. But, I am attending a one day clinic with Jimmy after the convention and have this sinking feeling that I will have to trot a jump in the warm up. I really am much better than I look when I am jumping from the trot so I figured my fellow COTHers could help me keep myself from looking like a total nimcompoop. Thanks all for your suggestions and I'm glad others may benefit from this thread as well.

[Hony]

We trot the dreaded X at the start of each lesson and after two years of it I think I can safely say I have finally mastered it.
You need to control the rhythm of the trot with your posting, stretch away and soften your hands. Don't worry about the actual jump, it's just an X. Instead, think of your rhythm. You can then apply this to bigger jumps.
If you're having a particularly bad day then just sit the last two steps!