What would make you consider Saddlebreds?

[CarrieK]

Over at the trot forum--a Saddlebred forum--there are a couple discussions about marketing Saddlebreds to non-traditional, non-saddleseat markets.

For those of you who start and train youngsters, would you consider a Saddlebred? What would influence you one way or the other?

For competitors of all levels, would you consider a Saddlebred? And what would influence you one way or the other?

Let's say the seller has photos and videos and lists the horse as a sport-horse prospect--would you even bother to look, or would you skip over the ad for more acceptable and/or common sport-horse breeds?

Everyone says a good horse is a good horse (just like a good horse is never a bad color) but we all have our preferences. If you have a TB preference, or a warmblood preference, how can we get you to look at our Saddlebreds?

Thanks

[secretariat]

We look for phenotypes, not genotypes, so Yeah, we'd consider. We run a lot of non-typical horses. However, there's a REASON that TB's and WB's comprise most of eventing horses, just like there's a REASON that reining horses are mostly 14.2 hand QH's -- they've been bred for the demands, selectively, and unless you have an outstanding outcrop in another breed they're just not going to compete at the top. So, for novice prospect, maybe. For advanced prospect, sorry, no. Doesn't mean they can't, just means there are so many good prospects out there I'll often cull arbitrarily.

That said, we did event a saddlebred 20 years or so. Wonderful family horse, the girls grew up on him and Megan was winning canter classes in double bridle on him when she was 7 years old. He never did like to jump tho, and I suspect a lot of that was the upright neck high on the shoulder and the flat croup (first things I look for in an event prospect are neck, neck set, and a big powerful rounded croup).

[fordtraktor]

Your best bet for non-traditional breeds is to have something that is already going in the discipline to which you want to market. You are unlikely to attract people wanting "prospects" because they tend to go after the kind of horse that traditionally succeeds at whatever they are trying to do.

As someone who has shown Saddlebreds in the 3'6 jumpers, I think they are great horses for lower-level eventing. They are generally calm and easygoing, pick up dressage well as they are light on the forehand and not too hot, and have nice technique. The ones I rode could be strong over fences, but were ratable -- just enthusiastic. That's the kind of horse I like to ride.

The biggest challenge is stride length. IME, the ones I worked with could do the strides, but you have to be going at a much faster clip than most amateurs are comfortable with. TBs often have to be going at a quicker rate than WBs or ISHs to have the same stride, and the Saddlebreds I have experience with need even more pace to have a smooth round. I'm sure there are plenty with nice big strides, but you'll have to prove it to buyers.

That said, I would consider buying one for a keeper horse -- very fun, sweet horses. I would not buy for resale as I prefer to buy traditional (big, bay TBs or WBs) for that purpose.

[boston's mom]

3 years ago I bought a Saddlebred/ Percheron X as a yearling. As an eventer, my friends thought I'd lost my mind. Saddle breds have a reputation for being kind of flighty and psycho, so I was a little nervous myself:lol:

I chose her because she had excellent confirmation for what I want to do (eventing and low level dressage) She has long legs, and nice short back, an amazing hip and a pretty nice shoulder.

The mix doesn't sound good....I am constantly being asked if she was an accidental breeding or a PMU (she is neither) However, she is very smart, quiet and brave. I have heard that the intelligenceis typical of saddlebreds. I wouldn't say she is spooky, but she is inquistive and will shy a little at the unexpected..that is her "big" spook, which is awesome considering that sheis not yet 4!

I think the biggest thing in terms of marketing ASB's to sport horse people is getting us past our preconcieved notions and prejuidices. THe more ASB and ASB X's that do well in eventing and dressage, the easier this will be!

[yellowbritches]

Really, not much would get me to even consider a Saddlebred, especially as a prospect, unless I happened to just see it, it was knocking my socks off, and THEN I found out it was a Saddlebred (and then, I don't know what I would think...). I have dealt with Saddlebreds and SB crosses. They are nice horses, but I think that a SB that would go where I want to go (UL), would be the exception rather than the rule. They aren't bred to be jumpers, they are bred to be saddle horses, and modern day ones are showy, all action, and rather refined and "fragile" looking (I don't know how fragile they really are, but again, without any track record for the breed running and jumping at speed, that would be just another turn off for me). So, they tend to fall in the same category as draft crosses for me...they have their use, and I have no doubt that they can and do perform at the lower levels. However, that's not what I'm looking for.

There's a reason a reason I choose TBs and TB crosses time and again. They are proven, solid, performers in my sport. They have the jump, the scope, the speed, the endurance, and the movement that I want. I'm always going to look there first for a new horse. It is going to take a lot for me (and I dare say most people who regularly compete at the ULs or with real aspirations to do so), to look at a very non-traditional breed.

[deltawave]

I agree w/secretariat. If there happened to be a Saddlebred, Akhal-Teke, Lipizzaner, Fell pony or any other breed that was right for the job I wanted it to do, I'd have a look at it.

However, if I was shopping for an event horse, given the fact that time is limited, I'd probably not make my first stop at a Saddlebred barn. :)

As to ads stating a horse is a "sport horse prospect", that means precisely NOTHING to me. ALL horses are "prospects". And sellers are inclined to overstate an animal's potential more often than not. If I had a nickel for every "10 mover" I've seen mentioned in an advertisement, I'd be a WHOLE lot richer than if I had a nickel for every ACTUAL "10 mover" I've seen in reality. ;)

To get me to look at a Saddlebred for eventing, the horse should be out walking the walk--competing and doing so successfully at the level I'm interested in. Honest and uncomplicated XC, a good mover, and athletic and enthusiastic about the job. For a young horse, I'd want to know what the parents have done, and I'd want to see the animal move. A lot of action is not necessarily going to be desirable in an event horse, who needs to be efficient and easy on itself. OTOH, an uphill build and a great trot have their place.

My driving prospect (I don't own her yet but have first dibs and I want her really badly!) is part Saddlebred and part Welsh Cob. She's gorgeous, has a wonderful uphill build and lots of action. Maybe not a horse I'd look at and think "eventer" but for combined driving I think she'll be great. I have no qualms about any particular breed, but the horse has to be built for the job. :yes:

[pwynnnorman]

I've run into a couple of Saddlebreds who were outrageously good jumpers--a bit unorthodox (deer-like) in style, but just full of fun. I've never known a Saddlebred personally, but a friend who rides park seat told me that, compared to park Morgans and Arabs, Saddlebreds really get into their jobs--they enjoy strutting their stuff.

AND the reason I'm posting now is because there is a MAGNIFICENT Saddlebred competing at the FL Horse Park this weekend. Very typey: big, elegant, powerful and with a lovely jump (I only saw it take one jump, but it was nice!).

[LisaB]

In showjumping there was one in the la olympics. Met another retired gp sj a few years ago.
Eventing:
I evented one, she was fabulous fabulous fabulous. At novice. She was a 5 gaited one, built like a limo and couldn't conformationally do a real lengthed trot so we stuck with novice. A lady competed 2, prelim and int.
One friend has one going prelim currently.
Look, a few are space cadets but a ton are super smart and willing. Think about it, to put up with all that crap that the saddleseat people do to them and saddleseat isn't the deadliest sport? Horses have to be nice.
I would definitely, hands down, go look at one. If it had boogly eyes, forget it.
Most folks don't admit that they are competing a funky horse. I've been quite a few people that secretly told me they have a pmu horse or an amish reject (to relate to me) and told everyone, including buyers that they were irish or cleveland bay crosses. There is some prejudice out there but if the horse can do it's job, who cares? Just for resale and the horse isn't uber nice, you're going to have a problem or lie.

[HiJumpGrrl]

I've ridden a lot of Saddlebreds, both Saddleseat (english pleasure, never actually rode one of the real park horses), AND I evented one! Some general observations: They tend to have flat croups, like many arabs. Their canters are not their best gait, and can get strung out. They can have, erm, unorthodox jumping styles.

Having said that, the ones I have known have fabulous minds, are smart and willing to learn, and I understand they are purpose-breeding horses that have better croup angles and better canters. I would consider one if one was presented to me. In fact, had I been looking at the time, I would have bought the one I actually evented.

[yellowbritches]

For the record, my objection to them isn't their brains (The ones I've known have been wicked smart, similar to Arabs, and sweet), but it is more the purpose the breed has been developed for over the years. HiJumpGrrl kinda sent it home for me...if a horse doesn't have a nice canter, I'm not going to really give it a second look for an UL prospect.

If the breed assoc. can get them out in the eventing world and they take it by storm, then I'd reconsider, but I'm not going to take a chance on a breed that isn't meant to run and jump.

I do want to say that if I was looking for a lower level horse for one of our kids or ammies and someone had a nice horse doing its job and it happened to be a Saddlebred, I wouldn't think twice to go look at it.

[JER]

I have a bizarre Saddlebred cross -- he's SB x TB x Belgian -- who hunted for ever and did Prelim to age 19. Excellent, excellent jumper and unbelievably safe. He's long-backed and long-necked and can do a huge trot with his head straight up in the air like an SB. Which did not impress even one dressage judge ever. :lol:

Would I look at a Saddlebred? Of course I would. I know some SBs that are just great all-around horses and I've known others that jumped really well. The ones I've met are generally smart and unflappable, which is always a good thing.

Chuck Grant used to recommend the Saddlebred for dressage, IIRC.

[tarheelmd07]

I never thought I'd look at a saddlebred for eventing...or a saddlebred for anything, for that matter...but the first horse I bought for myself as an adult was...a saddlebred :) It happened by chance -- I got into eventing, and ended up falling in with a great group of folks who happened to be eventing saddlebreds, or using them for other sporthorse disciplines. Where I boarded there were 3 full saddlebreds and 2 half-saddlebreds who evented or did dressage. I was impressed by the inteligence and athletic ability of the ASBs, and greatly enjoyed eventing mine...and I was heartbroken when I had to retire him this year after an injury. Would I look at anotherone? Sure...and there are some VERY nice ASB crosses out there (for some nice examples, check out the Flying W Farms website - www.flyingwfarms.com)

This was my ASB - Sprite - before he retired:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/tarheelmd07/LRsmall2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/tarheelmd07/tamarack1small.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/tarheelmd07/spritelog.jpg

And 3 full ASBs out for a xc-school
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/tarheelmd07/DSC_0113.jpg

Maybe FenRidge will chime in here...she's eventing a LOVELY ASB/Fresian cross who's absolutely to die for!

[deltawave]

Think about it, to put up with all that crap that the saddleseat people do to them and saddleseat isn't the deadliest sport? Horses have to be nice.

This is what I wanted to say, but couldn't figure out how to phrase it. :)

If it had boogly eyes, forget it.

Totally. But can you blame them?

[AUeventer]

There was an article in Practical Horseman a few years ago about Saddlebreds as jumpers. It may have been just commentary by George Morris in Jumping Clinic, but I can't remember for sure. Whoever it was it was an older, highly respected rider/trainer. He said that years ago Saddlebred influence was very prevalent in the jumper world and that he would like to see it return. Before that discussion, I wouldn't have considered one just because I have zero experience with them and I wouldn't know any better.

[Dr. Doolittle]

I had a Saddlebred/TB cross when I was a teenager; took my Pony Club B rating on him (and we were doing the equivalent of Prelim, back in the day: early 70's ;)), and that boy could jump the moon! He did have a rather "egg-beatery canter" (and had that high headed, hollow tendency), but dang, he had some major scope O/F! The highest I ever jumped him was 5' :eek: (you do that crap when you're 15), and he could probably have gone higher; he was very long-backed, and never saw an oxer that he couldn't "step over".

He didn't have the natural endurance of the full TB (was narrow-chested), but back then, we were always working our horses out in the fields (I hunted him as well as did hunter paces and jumper shows, and this was in addition to trail riding, Pony Club lessons, rallies, and some events at Prelim level...he never had an opportunity to be out of shape! :lol:)

In dressage he would sometimes get a bit hollow (and had that Saddlebred uphill neck set and "natural poll flexion" that made it LOOK like he was laways on the bit ;)), but when he was soft and swinging, he was quite nice to ride, and very laterally and longitudinally supple--he did had rather hard sides, though a soft mouth.

He was a flat jumper (had no bascule to speak of), but his knees were always WAY up under his chin--and he never stopped at anything!

I wish I could post pix of him, he was quite something, and convinced me that Saddlebreds and Saddlebred crosses can JUMP, though they are certainly a rather unconventional choice as event horses (and you sure don't see many out there--though I shared a Lucinda Green clinic with a cross last spring; he was unflappable as my old boy had been, and found all the Prelim + level stuff wicked easy!)

[CarrieK]

I've linked this topic to the discussion over at the Saddlebred forum and, for myself and also on behalf of the folks there, appreciate your comments. Thanks for giving the Saddlebred folks some different points of view to consider!!

FWIW, I'm neither a trainer nor a breeder; I have a Saddlebred that I'm hoping (if life doesn't continue to suck) ( ;) ) to simply do lower levels with. My feeling, from the conversations I've had over the years, is that sport horse trainers probably wouldn't consider youngsters and would go with more traditional breeds, but competitors (lower levels definately, upper levels perhaps) may consider an adult Saddlebred who is out and doing. The key, of course, is the out-and-doing.

[TB or not TB?]

Actually I adore Saddlebreds, but I was really skeptical in the beginning. My ex's mom had 4 that she did dressage with and :eek: Not only could they move, but they could jump the friggin MOON. :yes: I keep threatening to steal her latest weanling for eventing.

Here is what I would recommend to ASB folk if they want to have their horses appeal to a wider audience:

No tail sets. I'm not going to take it in the ring if it's tail has been cut, sorry. The best way to get them more popular is to have a fantastic ride and have someone ask "Wow what breed??" rather than having a bias, no matter how slight, and the tail is a dead giveaway.

Conformation - general sporthorse type must still apply. This (http://www.gasha.org/img/stallions/Aura_Of_Excellence.jpg) does nothing for me as an eventer; this one (http://www.daybreakfarmsaddlebreds.com/Images/Extreme%20Sport%20standing%202.jpg) could be worth a look. The flat croup doesn't do it for me either, but if everything else is good I would still take a look.

Show more saddlebreds doing other sports. (http://www.americansaddlebreddressage.com/images/627_IMG_4486medRes.jpg) There's a lot of talent (http://www.hoffmannstables.com/sale/images/TheseMagicMoments2006.jpg) out there. Some horses are already successful (http://www.sportbred.com/JStrohmaierArielleJumpE.jpg) and should be showcased. (http://www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.com/images/sauce%20jumping.jpg)

Lastly, if trying to market to a sport horse crowd, use pictures that we can relate to - regular confo shots (not parked out), normal movement, and freejumping if it's any good. These shouldn't be too hard to acquire. Even better is under saddle with a rider in an un-saddlebreddy manner. :yes:

For those who are interested in saddlebreds as sporthorses, this is a great site. http://www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.com/FAQ.htm

[ASBJumper]

As with any breed, there are Saddlebreds built for the job, and there are Saddlebreds that aren't. Often you have to look PAST the parked out, jazzed up, head jacked up in the air, wild-eyed look that the photos portray, and realize that the horses are made to look that way - that's what Saddleseat people want to see in a photo. Unfortunately when you park out a horse, it invariably makes the croup look flat, often flatter than it actually is.

You have to look at angles and substance and bone, not how the horse is being stood up. An uphill build and neckset are a good thing - a hollow back and a weak loin are not.

And there are many ASBs that don't jump like electrified stags.. :lol:

This is my 15.1hh (on her tippy toes) Saddlebred mare casually free-jumping a 4'4" oxer. She was out of shape and out of work at this point - her first foal had just been weaned a few months before this photo was taken. ;)
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1494586630046770113RvfPlR

This is a young ASB gelding I used to own, in his first few free-jumping sessions:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1476649338046770113NpVQiq
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/2182250020046770113ThAdbC

[FootPerfect]

My barn owner owns 3 saddlebreds. She has had them in the past and her old guy who lived 36 years was a great all-around horse. He jumped, did the gaited thing and also was driven.

The one mare she is schooling now she will use for dressage and eventing. Of the other 2, one is missing a tool in her tool box and is un-rideable because you never know when she's going to freak out. And I mean FREAK. Not just spook but just checks out of this world completely.

BO has her because the breeders she bought her gelding from threw her in as a package deal for free. Vet thinks this mare, who has very good breeding never fully matured either physically or mentally. The gelding is quite a high-drama horse. Now, at 12, he FINALLY seems to be coming into his own and is acting like a mature horse. The fussing and rearing in the stall when other horses go out has finally come to an end.

The mare that my BO is working with has a full sister also in the barn who is also quite a nice mover and jumper.

If I can get my act together I will try to pull the video of us from our jumping lesson yesterday and link to it. The horse is 8 or 9 and has really only been at work for a couple of years now.

I used to jump a SB/paint cross when I was in high school and it was fun, like cantering on a big couch.

My BO's mare is a lovely mover and is learning to jump. Very particular about where her feet go and the mare likes to be "just right". I think she'll make a lovely lower level eventer and probably a 1st-2nd level dressage horse, which is what my BO wants. She's built well enough she might go higher in dressage, but time will tell.

I think if breeders are looking to market outside of the gaited horse world then they should decide not to start the horses for it. I think the horses can do the job, but in dressage you are wanting the exact opposite, no excitement. So that is something to overcome. I guess if I was going to look at one, that would be a deal breaker for me because I would not want to deal with that re-training.

I think if you breed a horse that is built level or uphill at the withers, has a good temperament and nice movement it should be marketable. I do think they are quite lovely when doing dressage. Just as in any breed, some will do better than others so I would never rule out a horse because of it's breeding.

Find a trainer or learn classical dressage to start them and I think you'd be good to go.

[LisaB]

Oh yeah, my sb did halter as a baby. Some champion or something or other. Anyway, I got started in dr with her, through victim of circumstance in So. CA. And I was about to go to my first real dr show. My trainer had me walk out the test myself in the ring and everything. I got the test memorized and we had a lesson to learn how to ride the test.
Come down centerline, hit x, halt, park out ... wait! what? stop that! no parking out!
Needless to say, we had to work on that.
I sold her to be a lesson horse and broodmare. The place tried their darnest to get her to do saddleseat but she wouldn't. She liked that long and low stuff. So a mother/daughter bought her and called me up. Very happy ending for her!

[CallMeGrace]

There are two Dutch Harness/Saddlebred fillies for sale near us that my daughter and I have both stopped at shows to look at. Both are being marketed to the eventing crowd, here's one:
http://horsesales.com/symphony.htm

They are fun to watch!

[Timex]

well, what am i looking for, a horse for me, or for a client? if i was looking for myself, i'd be looking for something that could go further than propbably most saddlebreds could, given the movement and conformation that most of them have. show me one capable, and i'd definitely look. for a client? heck, it could be a purple 3 legged somethingorother with 1 ear and 2 hairs in it's tail, i could care less, as long as it's going to be safe, sound (in all 3 legs ;) ) and be able to do a little bit of everything, (most of my clients trail ride a bit, show a little, maybe a hunterpace a few times, throw in an event, school some dressage) and take it all in stride. conformation always plays a part, as does movement, but when you're looking for adult ammies and kids, temperment and personality win out every time.

[lecoeurtriste]

I wish I could post pix of him, he was quite something, and convinced me that Saddlebreds and Saddlebred crosses can JUMP, though they are certainly a rather unconventional choice as event horses (and you sure don't see many out there--though I shared a Lucinda Green clinic with a cross last spring; he was unflappable as my old boy had been, and found all the Prelim + level stuff wicked easy!)

My just-turned-five Percheron-SpottedSaddlebred cross (5-gaited) is showing great potential as an eventer and straight dressage mount--at the LG clinic last February, he was about 8 months under saddle and willing to try everything! I took him to a couple YEH events, and was told by the judges that he'd never get beyond Beginner Novice because he was "too heavy" to gallop and have good endurance! Imagine how surprised they'd be if they knew he debuted this year at recognized Training and placed 4th in a 40+ mile NATRC (competitive trail riding) event in the mountains in June!

I could not have asked for a better personality or work ethic...he's enthusiastic, loving, sensible, and an honest soul. My guy has shown me that he has the interest and brains to do the highest levels (and probably the fitness potential)--while his conformation would likely determine how far he goes, I think I'll chicken out well before we see how far that is (has anyone noticed how big the jumps get at the upper levels?!?)!!

[SimplySensational]

I don't think I've ever posted on these forums, mostly just reading, but just had to pipe up when I saw this thread. I've had a lot of people misjudge my ASBx before even looking at him, but I have yet to meet a dressage judge that didn't love him. I don't think i've ever received as many compliments on a horse as I have this guy. It seems he got the best of each of his breeds and has turned out to be fabulous. He has an amazing temperament, very willing, honest, he's always very gentle with everyone (especially children), anyone can get on him and he'll take care of you. He has his moments (like this time of year when it's chilly and windy) when he can be firey, but never bucks or anything of that nature, just wants to really run. He doesn't have a short stride at all.. actually it's a lot longer than most horses I know - but maybe he got that from the WB.

Although we aren't at a high level in our eventing career so far, he's done amazing thus far. I've only been to Pretraining level myself, and we are both going to take the step up to Training next year. We will be winning High point award for Ontario this year for our division as we had a very successful season. I just love him to death. He was started as a Hunt horse by his breeder, then was sold to my coach who used him as a schoolie for little beginners, and then she sold him to me because she just thought he had way too much potential to be trucking kids around the ring all the time. She was right! haha :D

Here's a couple pics to show you Saddlebreds CAN be pretty :)
Oh - and his cross is out of a full saddlebred mare, by an Oldenburg Stallion. He stands about 16-16.1hh, but a lot of people think he's much taller because of his headset.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v334/112/47/500981046/n500981046_1707654_4109.jpg
http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v287/112/47/500981046/n500981046_1353168_9290.jpg
XC - http://www.photosbybailini.com/g2/main.php?g2_itemId=33954
Stadium - http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v287/112/47/500981046/n500981046_1353175_1438.jpg
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v283/203/40/120801748/n120801748_38029631_5038.jpg


This was a picture when he was a little weary of a big Intermediate bank and had this explosive trot going on... hahaha :lol:
http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v359/112/47/500981046/n500981046_1932599_6776.jpg

[SmartAlex]

[QUOTE=SimplySensational;3658011]He has his moments (like this time of year when it's chilly and windy) when he can be firey, but never bucks or anything of that nature, just wants to really run.
[QUOTE]

I have only been taking my Saddlebred out in the fields and letting him gallop and jump ditches and stuff for about 3 months now, and the turn around in his attitude is impressive. He used to try to buck and screw around almost every day just to test me. Since he found out there would be galloping, he has settled down completely, and I can get on him cold on a fresh windy day, and head out in a plain snaffle knowing he will not test me. He can't wait to run and it has become a very safe outlet for his more ....ummm... creative ideas.

For the Saddlebreds who are built to run and jump, I think the varied nature of eventing would suit their temperments perfectly.

[Ibex]

I looked at a couple (one in particular) that I would have happily bought.

Unfortunatly, they were both 6, and so poorly trained (not saddleseat trained, just badly trained) that I decided against it.

[magnolia73]

I would think it would be a challenge to sell any "non traditional" breed as a sport horse unless they were already doing the sport in question. When you look at ISH, the german warmbloods the popular breeds for young prospects, they have been bred to be successful at jumping and dressage. I think that a prospect is just that - a prospect- with risk involved- why would you start with a horse that has been bred with different traits than are ideal for your sport - if your goal is to be successful as a competitor or have a good resale?

Plus, I imagine the best young arabians, the best young saddlebreds, the best young TWH - are valuable enough to their own disciplines that they are priced comparably to a similar quality foal that is a hanovarian or ISH.

I would think the best way to market would be to have successful examples out at shows. I would think the best market would be amateurs, as it takes an exceptional horse of any breed to be running advanced- and would conformation of saddlebreds allow for that kind of stress? Figure out what amateurs want- and how saddlebreds can fill that need- are they quieter? more reliable? easier to keep fit and sound? safer jumpers?

To answer your question- I would not consider a saddlebred- at all. My perception of them is the flighty prancy horse seen in saddleseat classes. I have seen some cool saddlebreds and mixes doing dressage and eventing and they are all hotter and bolder than what I would deal with. That said- I own a quiet TB. But if I liked the hotter personality, I might consider a saddlebred with some experience.

[wannabegifted]

if he can do it, a saddlbred can too!

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=CnsWQ4kNG-w

[SmartAlex]

Plus, I imagine the best young arabians, the best young saddlebreds, the best young TWH - are valuable enough to their own disciplines that they are priced comparably to a similar quality foal that is a hanovarian or ISH.

Now there is where you are wrong. When you say "the best young Saddlebred" do you mean the best for the Saddleseat disciplines, or the best for the sport disciplines?
A young Saddlebred is cheapcheapcheap unless
1. He is at least 3 years old, nearly showring ready (three or five gaited quality, not pleasure type) and in a show barn with a decent reputation.
2. Out of outstanding or "flavor of the month" bloodlines.

We have athletic, sensible, sound, green broke young horses with reachier motion and more warmblood type conformation who are going to the killers for $500 a piece. Everyday. Just because they CAN'T (or don't want to) blow and snort and pop their knees up. These are the non-saddleseat types that will not be heading to the World's Championship in the near future, and there is virtually no job market for them in their own breed. Nice, useable horses are going begging just because of the word "saddlebred" and the stigma attached.

Edited to add: Not only is are the sport disciplines missing out on a lot of suitable horses because they only think "Saddlebred" when they see the park type (which would not be useful to them) but, Saddlebred Rescue is rescuing dozens of horses who have been on the road with the Amish for 10-20 years before they get too old or break down. Now, if that isn't an example of how well or how long the conformation (and temperment) of the sport-type Saddlebreds holds up under stress, I don't know what else we can do to prove it.

[magnolia73]

Nice, useable horses are going begging just because of the word "saddlebred" and the stigma attached.

That's very sad. Perhaps not only re-marketing/branding but also some focus on breeding less is needed among the breeders. (and that follows for many breeds - too many QH's, TB's, backyard crosses.....)

There are a lot of nice horses going to waste these days. I can't remember when prices have been cheaper. You can get quality restarted OTTB's with good movement, started over fences, sound, attractive- for under $3000. :no:

[findeight]

I would think seeing the horse doing what it is you are marketing it to do would sell anybody looking for that. Also, you need to affiliate yourself with trainers and riders doing whatever it is you are marketing it to do rather then sticking to breed circles. If you know little or nothing about what you are marketing it for, it'll be a tough sell and harder to present it properly to buyers.

Been around ASBs and they are good horses. Level headed and not as fragile as you think. BUT the prevelent body type is to produce an upright front end and high knee. Disgree they are made to do this, you cannot teach that kind of action, it is a function of conformation. You can liven it up but it has to be there physically.

Unfortunately, that type is not good for producing a long, sweeping stride and good jump so it is going to limit.

Suspect there are tons of crossbreds out there with more then a trace of ASB.

Get it going successfully in whatever I am buying it for and I will look. But am in the not going to go to "In Harness" or "Rack On" Farms LLC camp and look for any kind of jumping prospect.

[lecoeurtriste]

We have athletic, sensible, sound, green broke young horses with reachier motion and more warmblood type conformation who are going to the killers for $500 a piece. Everyday. Just because they CAN'T (or don't want to) blow and snort and pop their knees up. These are the non-saddleseat types that will not be heading to the World's Championship in the near future, and there is virtually no job market for them in their own breed. Nice, useable horses are going begging just because of the word "saddlebred" and the stigma attached.

Edited to add: Not only is are the sport disciplines missing out on a lot of suitable horses because they only think "Saddlebred" when they see the park type (which would not be useful to them) but, Saddlebred Rescue is rescuing dozens of horses who have been on the road with the Amish for 10-20 years before they get too old or break down. Now, if that isn't an example of how well or how long the conformation (and temperment) of the sport-type Saddlebreds holds up under stress, I don't know what else we can do to prove it.

I can attest to the stigma--my guy came off an Amish farm where we think he was used on the road (2 matching giant cold splints on the front legs and an absolute delight to drive). The dealer marketed him as a "pinto percheron cross"--none of the on-line pictures showed the characteristic headset or tail-flag or mentioned his SB breeding. When I bought him, he was not broken to the saddle and had 5 natural gaits...but his free trot and canter were AMAZING...and he free jumped the very first rails we put up (I never looked back). When LG asked me his breeding at a clinic, she gasped and told me to "never tell another soul that he is half saddlebred" lest I die of embarrassment. Most people assume he's Dutch and I love to correct them!

[deltawave]

Need to relabel them as some sort of warmblood, then. American Warmblood is taken, but also doesn't discriminate on actual breeding. Some other term, perhaps? I'm only half joking. Packaging is everything.

[SmartAlex]

she gasped and told me to "never tell another soul that he is half saddlebred" lest I die of embarrassment.

XACTLY!!!!

Furthermore, so many of the Saddlebred "Old Boys Club" would rather pull their papers and let them take their chances avoiding the Amish and the Meat Truck, and maybe lucking out being picked up by another discipline than admit that they bred or made a shhhhh......."failure". :cry:

The problem is being fed from both sides of the fence. But, some are finally willing to find out if there is a market out there, and kudos to them. It is discussions like this that will help the horses.

Edited to add...
We finally have some trainers saying "we have this young horse, and he's quiet, and athletic, and we didn't set his tail... but now how do we find him a job as a "sport" horse?"
The people who have these horses are often as clueless as to how to market them to you as you are that they are out there to be purchased. They don't know how to present them, or who to call. Where do we begin?

[SmartAlex]

Need to relabel them as some sort of warmblood, then. American Warmblood is taken, but also doesn't discriminate on actual breeding. Some other term, perhaps? I'm only half joking. Packaging is everything.

That has been mentioned over on the corresponding Trot topic. If you want to sell the chicken wings that are left over from creating the Chicken Cordon Bleu, you don't market the wings under "Chicken Cordon Bleu" you create "Buffalo Wings" and let the profits begin.

Which led to bringing up the new Sportbred registry. Which is a great idea, but as was mentioned on Trot, that is only the half-bred people trying to distance themselves from the negative image and doesn't necessarily give back to or strengthen the Saddlebred breed.

[TB or not TB?]

Okay everybody, time to put on our thinking caps and create a new breed. :D

I like: ASH - American Sport Horse. Close enough to the ISH in name to attract attention, but vague enough so people will think it's just a fancy name for like a TB cross. And not too far from ASB to honor the heritage. :lol: Oh! We could also call them OTSBs - off track saddlebreds! :winkgrin:

For trainers with youngsters not cut out for showing, I would recommend contacting local dressage trainers, or low level eventing trainers. Emphasize that the horse does not have the high knee movement or headset to make it as a saddleseat horse, yet is extremely athletic and with a ton of suspension and floaty movement. Dressage folk seem to be a little more open to ASBs after the success of Harry, though I would hope lower level eventers might consider them as well.

As a final note, I do find it a little sad to see so much breedism in eventers as a whole :confused: considering the grass-roots-make-do mentality we pride ourselves in. Still, a good horse is a good horse. One of my favorite ASB moments was at a Holly Hepp clinic. A gal was looking to switch to eventing from saddleseat, and was riding her spotted ASB. Imagine a class of 6 or 8 athletic TBs, ISHs, and a few WBs - with show records up to CCI**s, and this leggy pinto with a long mane.

After a single gymnastic complex, in which the ASB went last, Holly turns to us all and says "Of every horse here, THAT is the one I would want in my barn." And rightly so! He was infinitely clever with his feet, had scope to burn, cracked his back over every jump, and was sooooooooo forgiving with his ammy rider.

Don't get me wrong - I LOVE TBs (obviously!). But they aren't for everyone, and a number of them come with issues. If I were looking for an athletic horse for a less confident rider, I would seek out an ASB before I'd even go near a TB. :yes: Good minds on the whole, and very forgiving horses.

[SimplySensational]

hahaha I think that sounds like a great idea! I met someone on another forum and she's got some ASB/WB crosses - just bred a little colt who just looks stunning and is apparently cleaning up in the line classes she shows him in! I'll send her off an email and see if she will post up her album of pictures of her crosses!

It'd be nice to get more out there so people see that they aren't just good for saddleseat! They can be very very nice horses!

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Okay

As a final note, I do find it a little sad to see so much breedism in eventers as a whole :confused: considering the grass-roots-make-do mentality we pride ourselves in.


I don't think that is really wide spread. I know MANY eventers whose first event horse was a saddlebred or saddlebred cross. A good horse is a good horse. I've never known a good horseman who thought otherwise. As to how you market them....you don't market them based on their breed....you market the individual on his good qualities ....and on his price. If he is priced right, has the movement, conformation and jump...he will sell regardless of his breed.

But they have to get them into the hands of sellers who know what qualities the sport world other than saddleseat want so they know what to highlight. They need to be in a barn that sells eventers or other related sport horses....it is difficult to sell a show jumper in a western pleasure barn...same is true of selling an eventer in a saddleseat barn...you have to have them in the right place.

[Whisper]

I don't care what breed horses are, just that I click well with them, and that they are able to do their job well and happily with me. I *have* found that (somewhat older) TBs tend to do especially well with me, but a good horse is never a bad color, or a bad breed. Right now, I'm part-leasing a TB, taking dressage longe lessons on a Percheron/TB cross, driving a Morgan, and vaulting on a Belgian, a Percheron, a warmblood, and a QH/Belgian cross. I also get to ride an Araloosa, a Paint, and a QH for free on the weekends. I wouldn't specifically seek out a Saddlebred, and wouldn't want to get a horse for eventing unless it has a decent amount of experience.

[ASBJumper]

SimplySensational - haha, way ahead of you, girl! Look up my post on page 1! :lol::D

I posted pics of the Saddlebred mare I used to own (just sold her to a nervous Ammie-rider/soccer-mom who wanted a safe, safe packer to do low level Dressage on - so she bought my "crazy" Saddlebred mare *wink, wink, nudge nudge*).

This is her 2008 colt, by an Oldenburg stallion. http://www.jumpstartfarm.com/Default.asp?Page=161
He is proudly displayed on his sire's progeny page, alongside all of his WB and TB cross foals. He showed on the line this year and did well, beating out some VERY well-bred WB and WB/TB foals.

Funny, I also expected a much more open-minded response from Eventers...?

My 4-yr old Dutch/ASB cross mare would kick ASS in eventing!! I am totally scared sh*tless about the idea of eventing (:lol:), but she's such a keener on trails that it makes me wanna give it a try.... she jumps, no *POWERS* over puddles and logs on trails with such enthusiasm.. LOL.. maybe... maybe a teeeenie tiny pre-pre-pre novice course or something?? :lol: :D :p

[Whisper]

ASB Jumper, the first HT I went to had a ground poles division, and so did the one that LSM1212 went to recently. :winkgrin: Lots of unrecognized HTs have an 18" division with W/T dressage test.

[deltawave]

I'm not perceiving a lot of "breed-ism" here. Most responses have been pretty honest about the potential pros and cons of "nontraditional breeds" in eventing, and only a very few, from what I've read, would reject the SB out of hand. Eventing is as eventing does. If a horse is capable and walking the walk, he/she is an eventer. That's the gist I get from the responses here. But walking the walk is a prerequisite, sorry. You just can't make every animal into an event horse.

My 4-yr old Dutch/ASB cross mare would kick ASS in eventing!! I am totally scared sh*tless about the idea of eventing (:lol:), but she's such a keener on trails that it makes me wanna give it a try.... she jumps, no *POWERS* over puddles and logsI have to pick on this just a tiny bit, please take it in the lighthearted manner it's intended. A green horse that's keen and forward on trails and POWERS over puddles is an event horse like a seven year old who loves to play chess is a college professor. :) Event horses have to be smart, honest, obedient, well schooled, brave but not stupid-brave to the jumps, clever with their feet, careful on Sunday, sound, sane, durable and forgiving. That's for Novice level and below. ;)

[KSevnter]

Over at the trot forum--a Saddlebred forum--there are a couple discussions about marketing Saddlebreds to non-traditional, non-saddleseat markets.

For those of you who start and train youngsters, would you consider a Saddlebred? What would influence you one way or the other?

For competitors of all levels, would you consider a Saddlebred? And what would influence you one way or the other?

Let's say the seller has photos and videos and lists the horse as a sport-horse prospect--would you even bother to look, or would you skip over the ad for more acceptable and/or common sport-horse breeds?

Everyone says a good horse is a good horse (just like a good horse is never a bad color) but we all have our preferences. If you have a TB preference, or a warmblood preference, how can we get you to look at our Saddlebreds?

Thanks

Every horse is different so it is worth a look. FWIW there was a full SB that evented thru prelim in the midwest successfully. I think his name was Footloose and the rider's name was Mary something, this was in the early 90's. I would never cross any horse off my list without taking a look.

[findeight]

We, meaning those buying for another discipline, will look if we see it at the barn of somebody in our discipline doing what we want it to do. And it can be pretty green and still show ability.

Likewise seeing it in competition is great, many sell at shows and events even without being finished and/or the winner.

So, breeders, get them to a barn that specializes in whatever other discipline you think suits it. Have it evaluated by a Pro, preferably get some training on it.

That way you can advertise "5 Y/O started over fences. Careful and scopey. Can be seen at Sunny Fields Horse Trials or at Eventer Trainer Farms". That will get you more interest then "5 y/o prospect. Would make nice Eventer. See at Saddle Seat Farms".

I mean, why would I want to go look for an Eventer if you admit you have no knowledge or background and no experience with Eventers? Or Jumpers? Put it where I can see it and know there is some experience behind the statement it will make a nice Eventer.

Tailor what you are offereing and how you market to who you want to sell to and put it in front of them. Don't make them go looking.

[BBowen]

Unfortunately, too many people get caught up in looking at a "breed" and not at the horse. Yes, inherently, some breeds are just made to do particular disciplines, but there are some nice unconventional horses that do quite well. Heck, Joanne Gelarden competed Montana Native at Rolex several times (loved that horse) and he was Saddlebred.

[Guyot]

If SB breeders really want to get their horses into Eventing, they need to find a talented up and coming rider and give them some horses to compete. Sort of what Darren C did with treks.

One talented rider with a breeder/owner helping the rider get established in the UL and breeder/owner finding a new venue to sell horses to. But until this happens, the UL riders will not touch a SB because it is unproven to be consistently successful at the UL. They will look for their students if it's been started at the LL or the adult ammie located the horse and it seems to meet the needs of said ammie.

Ideally, the breeder needs to give the rider a stallion or two and some offspring to compete. But it would take quite a few horses with one rider who is willing to promote the breed exclusively. JMHO

[magnolia73]

You asked for advice- people were honest. When you think of eventing, you think of TB's, warmbloods, ISH. Saddlebreds don't come up. I don't think it is "breedism" ie, saddlebreds are not appropriate. It's that people simply don't perceive saddlebreds as sport horses. I think saddlebred- I think gaited show horse.

I think that possibly a good model to follow is what the QH people did with focusing on versatility. They sold QH's as everything horses. They actively promoted at their shows that QH's can jump. And rein. And stand in a halter. And be a pleasure horse. And cut cows. So I think quarter horse, I think versatile.

If the problem is getting people to buy young horses and make them into sporthorses, I think you may have to start with breed shows. Focus on having jumping classes at saddlebred shows. Do dressage at saddlebred shows. Start advertising what they can do in a venue where it is clear that they are saddlebreds. People out at an event might not recognize a saddlebred to even know the breed of that elegant horse in dressage. But look at QH marketing- when you see that cute guy out on XC and look at the show bill and see "Ima Kips Bar Dun" - you know it is a QH.

It takes time to remarket something- especially when the *brand* of a saddlebred is something at odds with the ideal of the people you are selling to.

[seeuatx]

We, meaning those buying for another discipline, will look if we see it at the barn of somebody in our discipline doing what we want it to do. And it can be pretty green and still show ability.

Likewise seeing it in competition is great, many sell at shows and events even without being finished and/or the winner.

So, breeders, get them to a barn that specializes in whatever other discipline you think suits it. Have it evaluated by a Pro, preferably get some training on it.

That way you can advertise "5 Y/O started over fences. Careful and scopey. Can be seen at Sunny Fields Horse Trials or at Eventer Trainer Farms". Thawill get you more interest then "5 y/o prospect. Would make nice Eventer. See at Saddle Seat Farms".

I mean, why would I want to go look for an Eventer if you admit you have no knowledge or background and no experience with Eventers? Or Jumpers? Put it where I can see it and know there is some experience behind the statement it will make a nice Eventer.

Tailor what you are offereing and how you market to who you want to sell to and put it in front of them. Don't make them go looking.

Yes, exactly. I will consider anything that will get the job at hand done (and that I get along with of course). I can't say that I would read an advertisement for a 4 y/o ASB with no jump training or dressage training and say "oh, that horse that never learned to gait is going to be my new prelim horse". But if that same horse was put into 90 days with a dressage or event trainer and at least free jumped a handful of time, I would not hesitate to look at it.

For me it is the same as a QH that won't cut it as a WP or Trail (the show class, not the outside stuff) and saying "oh, he'll be the best children's hunter". Or even the dressage bred WB without the talent to go FEI. I do not have the expertise to know what that horse will jump like, but if I can watch it free jump a few times then I might have an idea of what it can do. Even with an OTTBs it is still a roll of the dice, and I think groups like Canter (owned), New Vocations and Mid Atlantic Horse Rescue have the right idea by doing some of the transitioning for their potential adopters.

We finally have some trainers saying "we have this young horse, and he's quiet, and athletic, and we didn't set his tail... but now how do we find him a job as a "sport" horse?"
The people who have these horses are often as clueless as to how to market them to you as you are that they are out there to be purchased. They don't know how to present them, or who to call. Where do we begin?

This is the best advice I can offer to these breeders and trainers. Perhaps some ASB rescues or farms can get involved with a dressage or event trainer who will put a solid foundation on the horses and get the ball rolling.

[NeverTime]

If SB breeders really want to get their horses into Eventing, they need to find a talented up and coming rider and give them some horses to compete. Sort of what Darren C did with treks.

One talented rider with a breeder/owner helping the rider get established in the UL and breeder/owner finding a new venue to sell horses to. But until this happens, the UL riders will not touch a SB because it is unproven to be consistently successful at the UL. They will look for their students if it's been started at the LL or the adult ammie located the horse and it seems to meet the needs of said ammie.

Ideally, the breeder needs to give the rider a stallion or two and some offspring to compete. But it would take quite a few horses with one rider who is willing to promote the breed exclusively. JMHO

I posted this earlier then reconsidered, but ... there actually is a ULR eventing a saddlebred right now. The USEA blog recently did a feature piece on her - she's an advanced rider who moved here from Australia and this saddlebred was the one horse she brought with her, so she apparently thinks very highly of it. It's competing at the CCI*/prelim level now and is quite distinctive. It's color caught my eye, but I have to say in my very humble opinion, it did not have a jumping style (http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=05MP004Q000066&po=66) I'd want in an eventer. (To be fair, there are much better pictures of it jumping, but the one I linked to was the general impression I got from it's round - big deer-leaps over the fences with very loose forearms) As I read this thread, that horse is the one I keep thinking about - fair or not - and makes my answer to the initial question a big, fat no. Obviously, though, an experienced rider who knows the horse very well thinks otherwise, so maybe we'll see a saddlebred at the very upper levels in the next few years.

[2Mares]

Ummm Nevertime, this tread is about Saddlebreds, not Standardbreds. :no: Not sure if it was a typo since you said Standardbred several times.

[NeverTime]

I think that was a case of having the wrong word in my head, but lemme double-check. I may be a perfect example of how ignorant non-saddlebred owners are.

[ASBJumper]

NeverTime - I agree, that's not very pretty. But it's one horse. And obviously he's getting the job done. There are GP jumpers out there doing quite well despite unorthodox technique.

Here's my Saddlebred mare free-jumping 4'4":
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1494586630046770113RvfPlR

The Saddlebred gelding i used to own, first free-jumping session:
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1476649338046770113NpVQiq

I have owned *one* horse so far that had no ASB blood in her - a gorgeous Westfalen/Thoroughbred mare with fantastic conformation and lovely gaits. She jumped like a discombombulated camel. It was scary... :eek:

:lol:

Anyways, I agree that the Association should promote more sporthorse classes and activities within the breed. But I don't see that happening any time soon... :no:

[CarrieK]

You asked for advice- people were honest.
Don't mean to come off nit-picky here, but I asked for advice; the poster you're responding to is merely commenting in this discussion.

And thanks, again, for the responses!

Altho the "rebranding" idea: I can see it now, and equine Imitation of Life: Drummer and I, rising through the ranks, me denying his bloodlines time and again, "Oh, I dunno, just some grade, just some crossbred." And then, after wowing the crowd at Rolex, I pull off Drum's fly-mask to show his true face and announce: " bwahahahahaha! And you thought the horse you luurrved was a mere mutt, but he is Drummers Vanilla Sky, a registered Saddlebred!!" the crowds gasps as one, gentlemen curse, ladies faint, babies cry, dogs chase their tails, Drummer happily munches pep-o-mints and looks around for a baseball cap that he can grab off someone's head.

No kidding, I can see it happening. And George Clooney'll be my date for the hunt ball, too!

[Ajierene]

As a breed, I don't expect the Saddlebreds to be in the Olympics any time soon, hopefully never. I tend to be a breed purist. The Arabians are 14.2HH and can run all day, but since they are built for endurance, they shouldn't be great jumpers. While the thoroughbreds are primarily built for racing, their confirmation does allow decent jumping skills. Percherons are driving/work horses. Not sport horses. I don't like seeing 'sport type' attached to any breed. I don't like seeing 16HH Arabians. I don't think they are good examples of the breed. It is getting to the point where you cannot tell a Thoroughbred from an Arabian from a Quarter horse, because they all have this 'sport type'.

That being said, not all horses are going to be born to be the epitome of their breed. Saddlebred owners would do well to make some contacts in other disciplines. The horses that don't 'make the cut' can be evaluated by trainers in the discipline, and if they show promise, be sold through them. When I start seeing Saddlebred breed shows where they are doing handy hunters and the like, I will be disappointed because to me breed shows are to high light what the breed was meant to do.

As an example: We had a horse that I ended up reschooling. She would gallop at home, but refused to break out of the trot at the track. Someone started working with her at home and western pleasure was totally her thing. I would not consider her a prime example of a thoroughbred, but I would consider her a great western pleasure horse - and yes, she did beat out Quarter Horses, Apps and Paints at shows, at times.

In other words, I will cringe if I see Saddlebred Sport Horses out there, being bred specifically to event, jump or do whatever they were not originally bred to do. I just don't see the purpose other than "I like x breed and y discipline, that they weren't bred for, so I am going to change the entire breed standards to fit what I want". I'm not talking low levels of a discipline but people who want their horse to go to Nationals, the Olympics, Grand Prix level, etc.

So, if someone said "All I am going to tell you about the horse is that they are a Saddlebred, want to event it?" my instinct would be 'no'.

If I was looking for a horse and saw an add for a saddlebred with the skills (or potential skills, depending on how green the horse), personality, etc, that I am looking for, I surely would look at it, without a second thougt.

[SimplySensational]

Nevertime, I browsed through the other pictures of that saddlebred you posted and you picked the absolute worst picture there was! The horse may have gotten in tight to that fence, who knows until you see it go! You're not doing a very good job of being open minded about the breed when you see the other pictures and pick that awful one! i'm sure everyone's got a couple pictures like that... and if you don't, you must ride a hunter!

this one for example looks great:
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=05MP004Q000066&po=66
or this one:
http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/orderpage.aspx?pi=05MP004Q000066&po=66

sure he doesn't have his head down at his knees or cannon bones like some horses, but looks like he definitely isn't having issues with the jumps!

Just trying to stick up for the little guy here... :)

[NeverTime]

I did pick one of the worst pictures, and I admitted that in my post and explained why I picked that one:

"To be fair, there are much better pictures of it jumping, but the one I linked to was the general impression I got from it's round - big deer-leaps over the fences with very loose forearms."

After I saw him at that event, I made a point to watch him go there and at another event. Why? Because he was obviously some type of gaited horse, which is unusual to see at an event, and I was curious to see how he jumped. Unfortunately, I was underwhelmed on all occasions - most of what I saw was big deer leaps, awkward jumps and hanging knees - which left me thinking "if that's what saddlebreds are like, no thanks." Over solid fences - ie *for an eventer* - hanging knees just aren't something I just can't forgive.

My point, not that it matters much, was in response to the post about having "poster children" out there representing the breed. Having such distinctive-looking horses out and about in non-traditional fields can be a blessing and a curse: They stand out whether they are being fabulous or awful, and both extremes are easy to remember and associate with them.

I think some of the other pictures people, like ASBJumper, have posted of saddlebreds eventing look great and don't have all the knee-hanging, shoulder-first jumping style of this ONE horse I am basing my impressions upon. But, since the original question was geared toward what would make uninformed folks, like myself, consider a saddlebred for eventing, I shared my experience.

[SmartAlex]

I am very much enjoying this discussion. Everyone has been pretty openminded and helpful, and for that, we thank you. Just general comments rather than quoting specifics...

This year we actually had dressage tests offered at a Saddlebred show. It was the same show that offers the national finals for the hunt seat horses and they are actually asked to jump in the ring whereas the qualifying classes countrywide do not require the jump. I welcome someone who is campaigning hunt seat ASB to jump in here and share specifics about the show, since I am not up to date.
It has been just as hard to sell within our own breed as it is to the sporting disciplines. But, it is happening, and we want to be able to support the versitile image by putting our money where our mouths are. If I happen to have a five gaited Saddlebred, and a hunter Saddlebred in my barn, it will be a great to have the opportunity to show at the same show and promote the hunter discipline to the Saddlebred competitors.

We do have a few forward thinking larger breeders who are placing suitable young stock with dressage and jumping trainers. This is going to be the most effective effort. Yes, we do have some people who would like to have the "sport trainer" phone number right next to the "kill broker" on their phone list, and have the "sport trainer" just majikly show up and vanish that colt so they could sleep better at night knowing they did the right thing, but that's just not going to happen.

I don't think we will really see a large upswing in Saddlebreds being bred specifically for the sport type. But, we sometimes get sport type from blood that also produces park type. One of our staunchest supporters who walks the walk, and talks the talk tirelessly (and I know you're listening Julie) will vouch for the fact that these bloodlines will throw a wide variety of types and talents. Although her horses are beautiful examples of Saddlebred Dressage horses, now and then she breeds a world champion instead, and that's OK, if that is what that horse wants to do.

[MediaMD]

I *never* thought I would buy an Arabian/ASB for my daughter to do dressage and eventing with but he has defied all preconceived ideas and misconceptions. He is schooling PSG and winning at 4th level and although he can be out behind in the extended trot, our trainer calls him "freakishly athletic" because he is so nimble not only as a jumper and eventer but he was able to master the working pirouette at 4th-2 much more easily than a traditionally nice moving WB. Here is a picture from the 2007 Pinehurst HT at Training Level.

http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/AlbumSlideshow.aspx?a=436421

As you can see he can definitely pick up his knees and although he doesn't round over a jump the way many TBs do, that long back gives him tremendous scope off the ground--up to 4'6" at home with no trouble. Perhaps not every SB/Arabian would do as well as a jumper as he has but I hope more people will not shrink away from trying a SB X before automatically dismissing it as poorly suited for eventing/dressage or SJ. You might discover a true gem like we did.

[Tevvy]

I certainly am not qualified to comment about Saddlebreds or eventing horses. However, I am going to throw my $0.01 in - (I would have said my two cents but the way the economy is $0.01 is more appropriate)- I am a low level amateur hunter rider. But, from my reading (especiallly George Morris' comments on horses' jumping style) and experience, I am very pleasantly surprised with what your horse is accomplishing. My biggest concern is the dropping of the one leg which, from what I have read, can lead to serious accidents and falls from catching a rail.

[Saskatoonian]

To be honest, nothing would make me consider a saddlebred. There are too many nice TBs out there, and I've always loved riding them, so that is all I'll look at. Not warmbloods, not draft crosses, not qhs. It's not that I don't think some of them are nice horses, but they're not what I want to ride.

Back in the day before I could afford to be picky, I would - and did - ride anything that needed to be ridden. Maybe if you'd hooked me then, I might have a different preference today.

[Just My Style]

I used to board at a saddlebred barn. The main barn was for the SBs and the other two barns were for boarders. I have heard the "stories" about the SBs, but not from the barn I was at. They were lovely. Well behaved. Very sweet. Very well cared for. They did things slightly different than I did, but not in an abusive way at all. I would absolutely consider one. I don't think you could entirely discount the breed. There are nice horses suitable for all kinds of disciplines in every breed- conventional or unconventional.

[Just My Style]

While the thoroughbreds are primarily built for racing, their confirmation does allow decent jumping skills.

What does being Catholic have to do with whether or not they can jump? :winkgrin:

[Old Time Rider]

Now didn't the ASB come from TB lines? I've known many good ASB jumpers over the years. Those Iowa 'Rex' name horses could all jump the moon (oh no my age is showing). That said I own a ASB mare that is the old type 5-gaited horse - stocky built, long neck - that didn't produce good ASB but I crossed her with Percheron/TB studs and got two that look like imported warmbloods. Now to get healthy enough to ride and compete them.

I watched the 'hunter hack' class at the STL Charity a couple years ago. It reminded me too much of when the quarter horse people started showing h/j. Buy the outfit and tack and go in the gate. And the jumping part was extremely scary. Of course the judges had excused the only hunter type horses - snaffle bits, lower head sets, ground covering trot - being ridden by riders who knew what the discipline they were showing. Guess the old political judging system is still in play. Now the QH shows got smart and hired the then AHSA rated judges for the h/j divisions and oh did that mess up the regular placings! But now at QH shows the hunters being shown could show at 'A' rated shows and win. Of course I'm talking 25 years later.

A good horse is a good horse, but selling a non-traditional breed into a sport it is better to have that horse going at that discipline.