Size of Numbers for Cross Fences are too small??

[Fuego]

I'm looking to get a general consensus of how you feel about the size of numbers for cross fences. Do you feel they are too small? Too big? Are they difficult to read while you are galloping toward the fence? Would bigger be better?
Please take a moment and if you can, try to find a ruler so you can best judge the size of number that you would prefer to see when on cross.
Do you have any preferences? Remember, that for the higher numbers the more space you need in order to read it clearly, and remember how far away you will be and fast you'll be traveling before you'll be able to read the number.
(just for reference, a piece of paper is 8"x11")


a) 7" x 9"
b) 12" x 12"
c) 11" x 18"
d) 10" x 14"

Thank you!!

[cinnabar]

I sometimes have trouble distinguishing between the training black and prelim green when a really dark green is used.

[tangledweb]

I would not mind a bit bigger, but some those options sound huge. I don't think there is currently a minimum size for them at all. Colors and some other details are specified in EV139.1, but not size.

[JMarcyQuay]

I think they're fine as they are now. I don't really have any problem with 'em. :)

[IFG]

I can see why some would like the numbers larger, but the cost and time to redo numbers for an established event would be substantial. I only organized Pony Club Rallies, and I can attest to the fact that if I had to redo all of the numbers, it would be a major hassle.

If any changes were to be made, I think that existing venues would need to be grandfathered.

[equestrianerd]

Personally, I'm always a fan of bigger. My vision, fully corrected, is 20/50, so I can never rely on being able to see the numbers while on course. I end up having to walk the course about 5 times before I fully have it memorized so that I can gallop around without being able to see the number signs. If I could reduce that to 2 times (dare I hope for one? ;)) that would be awesome.

[RiverBendPol]

XC number sizes seem to be fine for me, I guess bc I walk the courses so much. Show Jumping, however, is a different story. As I age, my dyslexia is getting stronger, I suppose bc Alzheimers is mixing in too:cool:, so I have started having a LOT of trouble learning my SJ courses! (stop laughing) Anyhow, a couple of times, I've had to rely on the number to get me going the right way!! It is a horror, so I would hope those numbers would never get any smaller. 12x12 is probably fine....

[flypony74]

Numbers are fine the way they are. That said, I rarely pay attention to them while on course. I'll walk 2-3x and will memorize the fences themselves. I've never gotten lost on x-c...stadium is another story.

[IFG]

Show Jumping, however, is a different story. As I age, my dyslexia is getting stronger, I suppose bc Alzheimers is mixing in too:cool:, so I have started having a LOT of trouble learning my SJ courses! (stop laughing) Anyhow, a couple of times, I've had to rely on the number to get me going the right way!! It is a horror, so I would hope those numbers would never get any smaller. 12x12 is probably fine....

Thanks Pol. Nice to know that I am not the only one!

[Ibex]

XC number sizes seem to be fine for me, I guess bc I walk the courses so much. Show Jumping, however, is a different story. As I age, my dyslexia is getting stronger, I suppose bc Alzheimers is mixing in too:cool:, so I have started having a LOT of trouble learning my SJ courses! (stop laughing) Anyhow, a couple of times, I've had to rely on the number to get me going the right way!! It is a horror, so I would hope those numbers would never get any smaller. 12x12 is probably fine....

I can't find my way around an SJ course by the numbers... for some reason it throws me off track. I'll see (for example) a number 5, and then start trying to remember if I really had jumped four other fences, and what were they, by which time I've made a mess of the current fence :confused:

I have to do it visually... the green vertical to the red oxer, across the diagonal to the pretty one with the flowers...

XC is better - I have time to think about where I'm going.

[Bobthehorse]

I dont find the size a problem....but oh MAN the colours are annoying. The Prelim green (around here anyway) is so dark, it often looks black from a distance, which can get very confusing when walking the course. Every time we walk, we always muse about how they should make it bright green instead of hunter green.

[Viva]

I agree with Bob, it's more the colors than the size...especially in the shade, the prelim and training can look alike...there's a road crossing in the trees at Groton House where a lot of people have gotten TE's because they jumped the training instead of the prelim or vice versa. Bright green would be really helpful!

[Lisa Cook]

I only look at numbers when I'm walking the course for the first time. Then I remember my courses as "brown coop to the white birch." Same thing in stadium, ie: "red oxer to blue vertical". I didn't realize until this thread that other people actually look for the numbers while they are riding! That would get me very confused, I think!

[Fuego]

Thanks for all of those who offered their opinion and voted in the poll. Generally, fence confusion and getting lost on course often happens when a rider has more than one horse in more than one division going. Easy-to-recognize numbers and colors are extremely helpful when you get lost or lose your track. I think most people rely on cut galloping tracks to guide them around the course, looking for the colour of the number first versus the actual number itself. It gets difficult when fields are freshly cut with no clear galloping tracks that some riders get lost.

So, concerns raised are that the numbers themselves could be a bit larger, and the background colors need to be clearer (brighter), especially between training white on black, and prelim white on green.

Any other preferences on numbers in general, or how the jumps are flagged? (red/white markers, black options...)??

[Lori B]

There is a lot of research already done in this area, related to the construction of road signs and legibility of typefaces, etc. I do find some fence numbers hard to read, particularly when I'm busy riding. I'm not sure what the typical size is right now, but a little bigger, with more care for contrast / legibility, would be a good thing. The very dark green that looks black is a good example of things that work fine from 10 feet away but look very different from 80 feet away, particularly in harsh light.

[flypony74]

I only look at numbers when I'm walking the course for the first time. Then I remember my courses as "brown coop to the white birch." Same thing in stadium, ie: "red oxer to blue vertical". I didn't realize until this thread that other people actually look for the numbers while they are riding! That would get me very confused, I think!

This is exactly what I do.

I thought only men care about size? :D

[subk]

It gets difficult when fields are freshly cut with no clear galloping tracks that some riders get lost.
Riders get lost because they didn't do the prep work required to ride the ride. I don't have much sympathy. If you're going to spend money on something I have to beleive there are things out there you can do to benefit all riders and not just the lazy ones.

[Lori B]

No need for name calling here. It's a simple fact that some HT venues have a somewhat scattered around layout of fences and many different levels laid out on the same grounds, which whether you prepare carefully or not, can be confusing. Walking and preparing is good, but having optimally readable signs is not exactly a giant investment, and is worthwhile, IMHO.

[fooler]

Riders get lost because they didn't do the prep work required to ride the ride. I don't have much sympathy. If you're going to spend money on something I have to beleive there are things out there you can do to benefit all riders and not just the lazy ones.


In part I agree with you Subk:
When I was younger I could walk the course once & remember it no problem. Of course back then the x-c was mainly on trails in the woods so it was easier to find your way.
Now that I am older, I find I must walk it several times and to make note of landmarks or fence types.
Stadium is usually easier to remember.

As a TD the folks who came to me because of a TE 'usually' had only walked the course once, were riding multiple horses at different levels and in one case had not walked the stadium course at all.

To me the greater problems are:
From competitor side:
Folks not allowing themselves enough time to walk the course more than once (guilty here)
From organizer side:
Color for Prelim is very dark and can appear as black in different lighting conditions.

[subk]

No need for name calling here. It's a simple fact that some HT venues have a somewhat scattered around layout of fences and many different levels laid out on the same grounds, which whether you prepare carefully or not, can be confusing. Walking and preparing is good, but having optimally readable signs is not exactly a giant investment, and is worthwhile, IMHO.
Sorry, I really didn't mean that post as harshly at it may sound! But a rider really does need to know the course without relying on the numbers and if they don't should have prepared more.

Having myself made the trip to Home Depot to buy the plywood, taken it home to set up shop in my garage, painted it four different colors, cut the boards to size then applied the numbers for four different courses making sure I had enough "As" "Bs" "Cs" and "Ds" as well as numbers for courses BN through P let me assure you making new numbers is a BIG, job! Of course, I didn't think it was going to be a big deal until I had already volunteered and was up to my eyeballs...

[ZEBE]

I think it would also be helpful (training vs. Prelim in particular) to make the training a different shape from prelim.. I was talking with someone the last time we walked xc and she was thinking on the lines of

BN- square
N triangle
T tall rectangle
P Octagon ( just cut all the square corners
I Trapezoid ? ( not sure if thats the shape.. sort of the triangle with the top cut off
A- Octagon (just cut all the corners of the square

just a thought

[LAZ]

Having myself made the trip to Home Depot to buy the plywood, taken it home to set up shop in my garage, painted it four different colors, cut the boards to size then applied the numbers for four different courses making sure I had enough "As" "Bs" "Cs" and "Ds" as well as numbers for courses BN through P let me assure you making new numbers is a BIG, job! Of course, I didn't think it was going to be a big deal until I had already volunteered and was up to my eyeballs...


I have one word here--Signorama! They did my numbers and will do them in what ever colors and sizes you want.

But back to the original question--I'm with the people who never look at them once they've found them the first time while walking the course. I remember the track and the fences, not the numbers. For some reason I have a horrible time remembering numbers.

[flypony74]

I think it would also be helpful (training vs. Prelim in particular) to make the training a different shape from prelim.. I was talking with someone the last time we walked xc and she was thinking on the lines of

BN- square
N triangle
T tall rectangle
P Octagon ( just cut all the square corners
I Trapezoid ? ( not sure if thats the shape.. sort of the triangle with the top cut off
A- Octagon (just cut all the corners of the square

just a thought

Sorry, but this makes my head hurt.

Me thinks that riders need to take the time to properly learn their courses, and not make more work for the organizers. Hey, you may have to walk the damn thing more than once! JMHO

[Nancy!]

I will admit that I've confused training and prelim numbers before. Thank goodness my coach caught that one on my walk. This year I had only walked my training course once because I was helping a few people at their first event and thought that was more important.

Warming up for cross country I was going over the fences in my mind. You know, fence 1 ramp, 2 oxer, 3 skinny, 4 mushroom, 5 skinny ramp,,..... until I got to the water and was missing a fence. EEKKK! Luckily a friend told me where it was and what it looked like. Luckily I'd jumped it before but didn't see it on my course walk.

I think that the pretraining and training colours in Canada could be a bit different as well. Pretraining is black on white and training is white on black. However, I think sizes and shapes being used are fine.

Nancy!

[Gry2Yng]

This is exactly what I do.

I thought only men care about size? :D

The numbers are only a concern for me when walking the course. I look at them from very far away and try to determine which direction to walk. The black training numbers and green prelim numbers can get confusing. Once I am riding it ceases to be an issues because i learn the track and type of fence and ride based on that.

It would be great if I could tell the training from the prelim from father away. It would prevent a bit of back tracking while doing my first course walk, but it never impacts my ride.