Whats the difference between a CIC and a CCI w/o?

[Harly166]

I did a search both here and on Google, but couldnt really figure it out.

What is the REAL difference between the two? They seem the same to me, but I must be missing something!
If I understand correctly, a CIC is basically a HT held over 3 days, with a jog before SJ.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

A CIC does not need to be over three days...I've seen them only over two days...and I believe that they can be done in one day under the rules. In a CIC, stadium can be before xc, and the xc course is not quite as long or as difficult as a CCI. A CCI is alway over at least three days (most are 4 days with two days of dressage). Both a CCI and CIC are under FEI rules. A CIC is often used (and might be required in some cases) to qualify to compete in a CCI.

[Harly166]

So, the difference is really just the # of competition days, possibly the order, and the length of XC?
Then why would you need to have a CIC in order to do a CCI?
It also looks like the CCI's are much more expensive than most of the CICs. Does anyone know why?

[NeverTime]

You only need a CIC to run an advanced three-day. (Why, who knows?)
You don't need a CIC to do a preliminary or intermediate level CCI.
At prelim, you can qualify for a CCI* simply by running 4 qualifying preliminary horse trials.
At intermediate, you can qualify with two intermediate horse trials and 1 CCI* OR 1 CIC**. In that case, it isn't necessary to do the CIC, but people may opt for it if they don't have a qualifying CCI* (either b/c they haven't done one or did one long enough ago that it no longer counts) because CICs typically are a lot easier to come by -- they usually are offered throughout the year and around the country, whereas CCIs are offered in fewer places and typically are structured to have one fall and one spring offering, at most.
However, at the advanced level (*** and ****) you need both a qualifying CCI score from the previous level of competition AND a qualifying CIC score, so by then, you couldn't choose to just do a CIC even if you wanted to.
I'm sure someone here knows why CICs were created; I don't. They are basically glorified horse trials, sometimes with slightly harder XC, run under FEI rules and offered as a way to qualify for the successive CCI levels.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

So, the difference is really just the # of competition days, possibly the order, and the length of XC?
Then why would you need to have a CIC in order to do a CCI?
It also looks like the CCI's are much more expensive than most of the CICs. Does anyone know why?


The CCI is much harder. The courses are more elaborate. There are very few CCIs and they are meant to be the highest/hardest for a level...with harder qualifications. A CIC is basically a normal horse trial run under FEI rules. They are in general a bit tougher than normal USEA or country level horse trial (but not always). They would be easier to complete than a CCI...and why a CIC is used to qualify to run a CCI....but a CIC is just one way to qualify for a CCI.


And really....some CCIs are not more expensive. An entry for a rider to Rolex CCI**** is very cheap. The cost of your entry is NOT what makes doing a CCI expensive;)


ETA: Nevertime laid out how you can use a CIC to qualify for a CCI...I was being too lazy!

[Jazzy Lady]

And some CICs are really expensive, especially when it's over a number of days.

The format I think still have to be run dressage, xc and then stadium because the jog after xc is mandatory for CICs, but it can and has been run over 1 day.

[RAyers]

There is no real difference other than money anymore. The FEI/USEF claims there is some real difference but there is not. You can get all the way to a 3* and never run a CCI nowadays. Read the FEI quals and you will see.

I would not be surprised if the CCI designation is dropped by the FEI soon. As a matter of fact, I'll put money on it.

Reed

[vineyridge]

There is no real difference other than money anymore. The FEI/USEF claims there is some real difference but there is not. You can get all the way to a 3* and never run a CCI nowadays. Read the FEI quals and you will see.

I would not be surprised if the CCI designation is dropped by the FEI soon. As a matter of fact, I'll put money on it.

Reed

And part of that is to cater to the Germans who want to put XC last, so it "will be the high point of the competition". Where will the second jog come in, I wonder, in the new world order.

[pattnic]

And part of that is to cater to the Germans who want to put XC last, so it "will be the high point of the competition".

Doesn't this kill the idea of "fit for further service"? Oh, wait...

[bornfreenowexpensive]

And some CICs are really expensive, especially when it's over a number of days.

The format I think still have to be run dressage, xc and then stadium because the jog after xc is mandatory for CICs, but it can and has been run over 1 day.


I could have sworn that they have done stadium first and can do stadium first. At a couple I've been to...the jog after xc was RIGHT after they cross the finish flags on xc.

[RAyers]

I could have sworn that they have done stadium first and can do stadium first. At a couple I've been to...the jog after xc was RIGHT after they cross the finish flags on xc.

Yep, that was done. The CIC* did it at Maui Jim in July due to the rains (yes it poured then too). They had to trot past the vets after XC on Sunday.

Reed

[NeverTime]

Apparently, they have the leeway to do the same in a CCI. It poured at Radnor a few years ago so they show-jumped Saturday, ran XC Sunday and had to jog past the vet after XC. IIRC, it caused some acrimony b/c Bonnie Mosser had a horse who was highly placed after a good XC round but spun" afterward -- after the horse had completed the competition. Raised questions of whether that was fair - was it a real injury or a sting that wouldn't have shown up had the horse had an afternoon and night to recover, as it would have under a regular format.

[deltawave]

The only real difference is in the length of the XC course. For a CIC it's usually not much longer than a Horse Trial XC (5-6 minutes) with beefed up XC jumps compared to a HT. A CCI without still has the "longer" XC course: about 8-10 minutes.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Apparently, they have the leeway to do the same in a CCI. It poured at Radnor a few years ago so they show-jumped Saturday, ran XC Sunday and had to jog past the vet after XC. IIRC, it caused some acrimony b/c Bonnie Mosser had a horse who was highly placed after a good XC round but spun" afterward -- after the horse had completed the competition. Raised questions of whether that was fair - was it a real injury or a sting that wouldn't have shown up had the horse had an afternoon and night to recover, as it would have under a regular format.


I thought that they changed it to a CIC and that was why they were able to do it in that order. I remember that there were then questions as to how it was affecting qualifications since they were not able to run it in the normal fashion.