What do u think? -event prospects w/photos, update pg2

[jpalisades]

Okay, I am thinking about buying one of these horses. I am looking for a project to train for eventing, hopefully at least to prelim then depending on how the horse is going them maybe intermed/advance.

Please I need a 'second' eye for these two to help me make up my mind. I have been looking for a project for awhile now. My eyes are playing tricks on me now. Every time I look at the photost I see something new. Now I am just confused:o

Thanks

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp273/jpalisades/2yocindy.jpg
2yo, little over 16hands, gelding, started for racing- did not go to track- no tattoo no JC papers


http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp273/jpalisades/4ycindy.jpg
4yo, lightly raced turf horse, 16hands

[jpalisades]

Are these horses that bad... that no one dares to respond:sadsmile:

I am planning on going to see them tomorrow. Please good or bad anything that stands out to the eventers here!

I need an 'influenced' prospective on these two horses!

[IrishDeclan]

I like how the first one is put together. He has a nice short back and looks to have good bone. He's a little more difficult to judge just because of his age....he still has alot of changing to do. He does have a very generous and kind eye though.

I think the second one really has that "it" factor. He's gorgeous!! I wish the shot was a little more sideways so that we could see his confirmation better, but I like what I can see. He's built very uphill and I LOVE that!!!!

I think you've picked out two top notch prospects!! :)

[seeuatx]

I am by no means an expert for choosing an upper level(ish) prospect.... but I like the bay. I can't tell a lot from the angle of the picture, but I like his eye. He looks very alert and intelligent, and I like his fluffy hair-do too ;).

The chestnut is cute and looks to be a very sweet fellow, but his hind-end looks very straight to me, and his shoulder and pasterns looks fairly upright as well...

Then again, how many top horses have ideal conformation?

[lizathenag]

go with the 4 year old. that way you won't have to wait 2 years until the chestnut is 4.

[CanTango1]

I have to say Irish hit the nail on the head for me !! T


The bay is GORGEOUS. If it doesnt work out PM me !!!

[Horsegal984]

The 2yo needs some foot work, unless it's just the picture his has underslung heels and too long toes. Look how different his pastern angles are from his hoof angles. I think that once that's fixed it will probably make his pasterns more upright than they are now.

Can't see much of the bay's conformation, but what i can see I like. plus I just like dark horses. ;)

[olympicdreams04]

I do NOT like the shoulder on the chestnut. He's pretty straight behind as well. His short back is the only thing going for him really. I would give this guy the potential for Prelim just barely. I agree the bay has more of the IT factor. I can't see his conformation as well from the photos, but I like his broad chest and he appears, from what I can tell, to have a much better shoulder. He is still croupe high, which is something I don't like to see as a four year old. He also seems to have short pasterns behind and a rather long cannon that may be a potential tendon injury creator. I like his neck and his eye though.

[FairWeather]

Looking at upper level? Pass on both.

[joharavhf]

I prefer the dark bay. He's really nice looking from the angle we have.

Both horses have funky feet - really long toes. At least in my opinion.

Good luck!

[yellowbritches]

I am partial to the 4 yr. old, though I wish it was a better shot, and I can also that I was biased from the beginning...a 16h two year old is too big for my taste, personally. I prefer them in the 15h to 15.2 range at that stage of life, however, I don't like them, for me, much bigger than 16h once they are grown! ;)

The two year old does have a very straight shoulder and the neck is tied on a bit straight up and down and is short. He will develop more, but I don't think he will develop in such a way to make it better. The 4 year old looks to have a tremendous engine in the back and while his neck looks a bit short, too, it is tied on a better, I think. He also has a great eye....big, inquisitive and bright. The two year old has a bit of a pig eye to me. Their feet both will need work, but that's no surprise for something coming off the track.

[Marney]

I have to agree with Fairweather....

[bornfreenowexpensive]

I'll be different...between the two, I liked the 2 year old a bit better (neither is really screaming to me though). But really, go look at them in person. See how they move. They are both a bit like comparing apples and oranges though...and the 2 year old may be a more expensive gamble just given how long you will need to wait to see what you have.

[lstevenson]

Definitely the second one. I don't like the first one AT ALL. Nothing athletic about that horse, straight shoulder, hoof/pastern angle all out of whack. The second one looks like an athlete. I'd take him.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Definitely the second one. I don't like the first one AT ALL. Nothing athletic about that horse, straight shoulder, hoof/pastern angle all out of whack. The second one looks like an athlete. I'd take him.


really....I see the hoof issue, but I couldn't really judge his shoulder given the way he is standing....He looks like the imature (unfit) two year old that he is. And I really can't tell anything about the dark horse other than he has a pretty face. Hence why if she is interested...she needs to go see them move and in person...these photos are not great to make a call one way or the other. But honestly, neither jumps out at me as an upper level prospect just based on the photos....but many upper level horses do not jump out like something special if you just pull them out of the field and stand them up in a photo.

[lstevenson]

really....I see the hoof issue, but I couldn't really judge his shoulder given the way he is standing....He looks like the imature (unfit) two year old that he is.


Yes he is younger, but his shoulder angle won't change with increased fitness. I see the chestnut being a short, fairly choppy mover. The second horse has the hip and shoulder angles (and length of shoulder and hip bones) that tend to make a long striding and athleticly moving horse.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Yes he is younger, but his shoulder angle won't change with increased fitness. I see the chestnut being a short, fairly choppy mover. The second horse has the hip and shoulder angles (and length of shoulder and hip bones) that tend to make a long striding and athleticly moving horse.


I'll defer to you...I thought the dark horse's shoulder looked almost as straight but couldn't tell his angles from the photo. But did think that the younger horse's hips lacked a bit of depth but his parts looked balance and fit together....whereas something just doesn't match up to me with the other one (he seemed heavy in the front end or something)....could just be an effect of the photo.

The one issue with straight shoulders though is that often they can be better jumpers with their front ends (although I do want the power behind as well). One of the best jumper I ever sat on had a straight shoulder and a short choppy stride....but could crank his knees to his ears and was still fast enough for an event horse. He wasn't going to win dressage at a dressage show...but was a xc machine. He did well in the high a/o jumpers.

[EventerAJ]

Ditto Fairweather and BFNE.

If you truly want an int/adv prospect, pass on both.

If you want something to go prelim, it is *possible* that either could make it... if they have the heart and ability to make up for structural shortcomings. Of the two, I prefer the chestnut: the shoulder is upright, BUT it is long, and some very good jumpers are upright in front. The dk bay is too heavy-looking for me. However, it is too tough to judge from a photo; go see them in person. And don't feel pressured to choose between these two... there are MANY good TBs out there right now looking for homes.

[JER]

If there's not too much driving involved, I'd go see both of them. Pictures of horses, especially young horses, often show only a very basic resemblance to the horse in the flesh.

A straight shoulder doesn't bother me so long as the horse uses the shoulder well. The two best jumpers I've had were very straight in the shoulder but they were excellent with their front end over fences and traveled on the flat with lots of engine from behind.

What I can't help but think is that these two horses represent really different short-term options: buying a two year-old with no experience is a very different route than getting a four year-old with track experience.

[Jessi P]

For what my opinion is worth, the chestnut is too heavy bodied to stay sound on those legs from the knee down. IMHO as a racehorse trainer it's probably why he didn't advance further in his race training as a 2 yo (if he was started for the track). The dark bay is very attractive in this picture but we really do not get to see his confo very accurately (if at all) from this angle.

[Gestalt]

I think the 4 yo is beautiful, but of the 2 I'd buy the chestnut. When are you going to see them?

[TB or not TB?]

I don't like the look of the RF tendons on the 2 y/o - I almost see a bow there but I can't tell because of the photo. He's on the straight side behind and while he's sweet looking, he doesn't really scream eventer to me.

The 4 y/o has a nice front end but I don't like hind end so much. He could be straight behind as well.

Neither really do it for me. When considering a prospect, I would want everything stacked in my favor - for an unproven horse, that means excellent conformation. If it's already going well at Int, OTOH, I am willing to compromise based on its record and soundness.

[jpalisades]

...late this afternoon! Owner did email me photos of the grey she has as well, 4 or 5 year old 16 or 16.1h. There is something about this grey that I like!

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp273/jpalisades/greycindy-1.jpg

The bay did have the 'IT' factor that some of you talked about. But everytime I looked at his photo, I just was not sure if he was eventing material for the level I would like to do, when the time comes....

Another horse who I thought must have been sold, owner just sent me photos. To me is hind looks 'small' compared to the rest of his body. Owner says he floats, but I may go just to seefor myself. He is on the way to see the grey and chestnut geldings. This one is a 4 going on 5, 16.2h, currently a stallion, and photo was taken with a cell phone (not sure how much it helps or hurts the stature of the horse). Side FYI fun note for race lovers: this boy is a Unbridled grandson. Not really sure about this guy, but thought you folks may like to see him.

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/pp273/jpalisades/IMG00070.jpg

I am not looking for a stallion, so he would be gelded very quickly.

After looking at confirmation, picture after picture, I start to really pick these horses apart. It is great to have somewhere to ask for another opinion. Sometimes I feel I am being too picky, as there is not perrrrfect horse!

[seeuatx]

Hmmm. The Grey is certainly a pretty color... but I think his shoulder is also quite upright, and he seems to be back at the knee. I do think I like his hind end though. Wish I could see him with a good shoeing job and 200 lbs, I might change my opinion.

Personally, of the four... I am liking horse number 4 the best. He has longish cannons, but his shoulder and neck are very well set and he has some decent length to his stifle and gaskin. Overall he appears to be the most balanced to me, and being a stallion is an easy thing to fix (no pun intended). Horse number 2 is in 2nd for me, with horse number 3 and 1 tying in last place.

[jpalisades]

I was looking at the back of the knees of the grey too! It is hard to see, as both front legs look like one leg. But when I blew the photo up something bothered me about the knees. He is straight in the shoulder...but...years ago I had a horse who competed prelim and schooled 4'6" like it was 2'6". Wish I could find the photos of him to show everyonw, he had a shoulder even more straighter than the grey and chestnut put together:yes: But that hind end of his was a POWERHOUSE of energy and strength.

You like the fourth one! The stallion? Man, I have been around too many track rejects lately. As in my OP, I am getting myself twisted around on the really goods, the okays, the maybes, the 'but this makes up for this' cases. Hence the reality check ablity by COTHers. Thanks!

[yellowbritches]

I agree about the 4th one. Pretty nice. His croup is short, but not THAT short, and the little mare I used to ride had the shortest croup I have ever seen and could jump the moon...she was jet propelled! He's also, of all of them, the most proportionate. The other three all tend to have some body part that doesn't seem to fit with the rest. He has the nicest neck of the bunch, too. Good size compared to his body and tied on well.

The grey has an ick factor for me. It doesn't help that he's scrawny, but he is just not put together nicely, especially compared to the stallion.

[LarissaL]

I guess I'm going against the grain.. I like the grey best. He's way out of condition and the photo is full of optical illusions (in my opinion).

He has oodles of filling out to do! But I like his big shoulder and more solid looking legs (vs the others). Looks like he'll fill out easily over the topline too. I think he looks naturally balanced. Negatives - the hinds are a little straight, front pasterns somewhat long and I think the left front hoof is a little weird/clubby/mismatched to the right. Nothing that would keep him from being useful - probably not flashy, but quite useful.

The stallion has a nice neck and a short back, which I like, but those legs are stumpy! And his feet are TINY for a horse that size. He strikes me as more hunter-y than as an eventer.

The two year old I'm so-so on. I don't think he's awful, but I don't think he's truly Prelim+ material. I like his hind end - croup is a tad bit steep, but I'd prefer that over flat. His back seems appropriately long to his size, though I wish his shoulder were a bit longer and less upright. The front legs seem straight and don't have any glaring weakness. Hate the shoeing job and would check out those tendons though.

I'd be interested to hear if they are ever seen in person :)

[FairWeather]

Of the 4 the grey is the one I'd pick personally, but none of them for Upper Level expectations.

[Mach Two]

No wonder the two year old did not go to the track...he already has some osselots on the front pasterns.... Pass
I like the look of the four year old much better, and he has already raced on turf, which is to your advantage...some flat trackers that have raced on dirt do not adjust to turf.
Don't go any further with that chestnut, but take a look at the bay.

[Mach Two]

I posted the reply above before I saw the grey and the stallion....the grey has big problems, starting with that roached back. Look at the bay, and the stallion.
Ya never know!

[LKF]

The gray is under weight. His conformation would be considered to be 'behind the knee', which is a flaw. Being behind the knee for an Event horse is like a ticking time bomb waiting to explode due to the stress of jumping.
Also, he is a bit long in the pasterns up front (but that very well may be the angle he is standing). Having pasterns too long can make the horse hyper extend the sheath muscle surrounding the fetlock and cannon bone.
It's obvious that the weather has taken it's toll on him, so he lacks muscle and weight. Everything else appears to be attractive. It's just his front legs that are not correct (from the photo you posted - I hope I'm wrong).

[LarissaL]

My opinion is the back at the knee is an optical illusion. I tried to save, blow up, change brightness/contrast to show it but I can't.. the right shoulder is forward with the hoof further behind. It makes that left forearm look WIDE, puts some extra angle on the front of the knee and adds bulk behind the left ankle. Even makes him look a little tied in below the knee, in my opinion. His coloring is difficult in this case.

Keep in mind though, I wear glasses and they are at least a year and a half out of date. Seriously. :lol:

[Jessi P]

I would definitely look at the stallion. Just my $0.02. :)

[Xctrygirl]

Ok lets see...

I own an Unbridled son.....I would highly reccomend you ignore that stallion completely. And then give me the contact info!!! :)

Mine has been fantastic and bears some similarities... which I can attest that the hind end is plenty strong.

http://s103.photobucket.com/albums/m147/Xctrygirl/Lad/?action=view&current=DSC00831.jpg

~Emily

[Equine Adhesive]

Horse #1 - chestnut - does not do it for me, at all. Yes, in 2 years he could look a bit different, but structurally, not too different.

Horse #2 - dark bay - yes I know he is sold - read update - but I would still pass. Horse like this reminds me of the on-the-forehand/puller type that does not take to dressage easily and is hard to adjust o/f. Looks more like a fun type for hunter paces and such.

Horse #3 - grey - rough shape, hard to tell if he would muscle up into something nice - but you wonder why he is in such rough shape to begin with, as obviously he is not at the track or was not there recently, so why did someone throw him in a field? Suspicious. So, rather than risk putting a horse like this into work, it's easier to buy something that has been in work recently so you know what you are dealing with.

Horse #4 - attractive. Love Unbridled line. A stallion at 5? Not for me, but doable if he is a good buy and you love the horse. As an UL prospect? Looks a bit huntery to me, though!

[Xctrygirl]

Mine was cut as a mid year 4 yr old. This one is only a few months further on.

Not a huge deal.

I would definitely go look.

Name???

~Emily

[regeventer]

What about Zero Coupon - who is listed right under the first two you posted?

[yellowbritches]

Having seen xctrygirl's Lad in action, I can tell you the Unbridled line is power packed. There's a reason every upper level rider she knows is lined up just HOPING she'll decide she doesn't want to ride her nice horse! :winkgrin:

As for the stallion's conformation, while Vernon is not from the Unbridled line, he is similarly built...powerful and "stacked." he isn't uber-leggy, but is very proportionate with a lovely shoulder, great hindend, and a very nice neck, much like Lad's and the stallion's. He also has the classic "leg at each corner" type build, much like Lad and the stallion's. He's a powerhouse.

I don't get the whole "he looks huntery" thing. What? Because he's not a weedy, withery TB, he's not going to be appropriate? If anything, I rather have a horse that is solidly built all around than a weedy looking thing, which some of the others are. Obviously, development stage has a big role in it (Vernon was certainly weedy this time last year as a 3 year old), but a good athletic build is a good athletic build is a good athletic build.

ANYWAY, I still like the stallion the best of the four offered up, though seeing him in person (or all of them) would be the best bet. He is, of the four of them, the most quality, I think, at least by as far as I can tell by one poor quality photo of each. Go look at them...there's a lot more to buying them than just their looks. A good brain in their head, a great canter, and the "yep, that's my horse" feeling probably plays an even greater role.

[Equine Adhesive]

yellow - "huntery" the way I mean has to do with neckset and topline, not "athleticism", the true extent of cannot be seen in a photograph.

[LisaB]

Chesnut - yup, hunter. The shoulder is open angle and the point is low. Sweeping low movement. Plus short butt. Cute though
Bay #1 - again, low shoulder point. If you're looking for ulh, open shoulder angle and point is high. from the the pic, I don't like the way the loin is attached to the back, could just be the angle. Looks like he's got nice low slung hocks. Built slightly downhill. wierd foot angles

Bay #2 - again low shoulder point. Nice shoulder angle though. Try looking for that angle, just higher point. Bad front legs, those will not hold up. Too short in the butt and back. Would have a hard time with the width of the jumps and subluxation of the back to get 'scope'. Short neck.

Grey - jeez, he better be cheap! Because they aren't feeding him. Poor guy. Long broken angles on his front legs. He may not pass for you. Nice evenly built. The pic seems like his shoulder sucks. Could just be the pic. Love the back to loin. He's one I would take a look at. But take a really hard look at those front legs. If he's really smooth, then you have a problem with the too long of pasterns. I really like his eye.

[S4zeus]

What about Zero Coupon - who is listed right under the first two you posted?


If we had fencing up at the place we just built, I would snag him. But thought about him more as a hunter resale.

[regeventer]

S4Zeus

Curious - why point Zero Coupon toward the hunter world and not the eventer world??

I like him - little thick at the throatlatch, but I think his shoulder ties in nicely, his butt is nice, just wish you could see his eye better.

[Jessi P]

So did we ever find out the name of the stallion?

[S4zeus]

S4Zeus

Curious - why point Zero Coupon toward the hunter world and not the eventer world??

I like him - little thick at the throatlatch, but I think his shoulder ties in nicely, his butt is nice, just wish you could see his eye better.

Only because Hunters are easier to resell. :)

[Summies182]

I liked the bay much better, but did notice the foot thing too. I have battled over bad feet too much in the past "no foot no horse" is what my farrier always says. Also the 2 year old is already over 16 hands and Ive always thought that more compact horses typically are more athletic... but thats just me! The bay is very pretty just get your farrier to approve before you buy him. I always have a vet check and a farrier approval check before I have bought any of mine!