Sitting the Gallop

[altjaeger]

How difficult is it to sit the gallop in an English saddle? I ask because I thought I got my horse into a real (i.e. 4-beat) gallop for the first time on a hunt and yet I sat for the 200 or so yards we went like this. Now, I'm beginning to have doubts -- perhaps it was just a super-fast canter. (?)

[Beverley]

It is very difficult. Which is why I don't sit the gallop, I get in, and stay in, galloping position- 'two point' as it's commonly known. If you try to sit the gallop, even a fast canter, all day long, you will be intensely uncomfortable at best.:)

[JSwan]

Why in God's name would you sit the gallop? Terribly unfair to the horse, and bone jarring for the rider.

[altjaeger]

I guess I wasn't then.

[JSwan]

At the very least you should be in a half seat at the canter or gallop, sitting only to execute a half halt or other use of the seat.

[altjaeger]

I'm not suggesting it is good for the horse, but asking if it is really that hard to do. Don't they sit the gallop in Western Riding?

[JSwan]

I rode Western as a youth and never sat the gallop.

[Beverley]

I'm not suggesting it is good for the horse, but asking if it is really that hard to do. Don't they sit the gallop in Western Riding?

In a western saddle, since you are riding longer, typically, you don't get up out of the saddle quite like you do when riding English- but you do lean forward and get your weight off your seat. Watch the calf ropers at a rodeo some time- they are forward til that loop is over the calf's head- sitting down in the saddle is the cue for that horse to go from top spead to stop, instantly.

[wateryglen]

In both cases, you are standing up in the stirrups and not getting bumped by the back of the saddles. That allows the horses back to rise & fall under you while you stay suspended in the air above the action for a smooth & easy on the horse ride!!! :yes: English riders call that 2 point stance because your contact with the horse is only in your feet when standing up. A Half seat is when your crotch is lightly in contact with the saddle but not your full weight. A half seat is a tad more secure. But for going fast over uneven ground? 2 point for sure!.

IMHO, at a full gallop it's 2 point. At a "hand gallop" it can be 2 point or half seat. At a "lope" you can sit and rock the slow, rocking canter. Both styles of saddle allow you do these. Perhaps this can be covered by your riding instructor in your lessons! Wouldn't hurt to ask. Your horse will love you for it!! :D

[altjaeger]

Well, maybe I did come out of the saddle without realizing it. (I am in 2-point in my hunter lessons, so it is pretty natural for me.) Or, maybe I was still in canter.

MY RI would do her best to answer questions about the gallop, but we don't ever practice it in the arena. Most of the students wouldn't want to! Only chance for gallop is out hunting.

[JSwan]

I think it would be wise to learn how to gallop, safely and in balance, somewhere other than the hunt field.

Hunting is dangerous, even for the most experienced and talented rider. It's not the place to learn skills - it's the place to put them into practice.

I'm concerned that you cannot determine whether your horse is cantering or galloping, and you do not know if you are supposed to sit or be in a half seat or 2point. I'm concerned because hunting is very physically demanding, especially for the horse, and it's crucial that the rider be balanced and educated - for the horse's sake as well as the rider's safety. (and everyone else's safety, too)

What the students "want" to do really is of lesser importance than what the rider needs in terms of education. And I'm telling you, based on your posts on this BB, and from many years of experience, (some of which was learned the hard way), that you are starting to sound like a very dangerous rider. I don't know if you need a different instructor, or you're not listening to your instructor, or you don't care - I simply don't know what the story is.

I'd hate to see you get hurt - and trust me - no matter how well mounted you are - you're going to get hurt. :(

Good luck.

[SmartAlex]

Having just returned from a hack... I don't see how it would be possible to ride a gallop seated. For one thing, your center of balance would be way back and you would be at risk of falling out the back seat. Even bareback you have to keep your balance pitched forward even if your fanny is still in contact with the horse.

I stay in 2 point just to keep the big bugger reined in. If I sat back for the ride, I think he would leave me there and have to be caught two towns away.

[Jaegermonster]

Well, maybe I did come out of the saddle without realizing it. (I am in 2-point in my hunter lessons, so it is pretty natural for me.) Or, maybe I was still in canter.

MY RI would do her best to answer questions about the gallop, but we don't ever practice it in the arena. Most of the students wouldn't want to! Only chance for gallop is out hunting.

What will you do when you are showing and the judge calls for a hand gallop?
You will be screwed.
I think maybe you need a better trainer.
And I agree with JSwan.

[Painted Wings]

Wikapedia has an interesting discussion on horse gaits, even shoing slow motion video. Very interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horse_gait

But at the canter or gallop in the hunt field I am in two point. Too hard to adjust for changes in terrain at that speed otherwise. Sitting down is not only hard on the horse but unsafe for the rider.

[Beverley]

MY RI would do her best to answer questions about the gallop, but we don't ever practice it in the arena. Most of the students wouldn't want to! Only chance for gallop is out hunting.

Do you have the opportunity to work in the arena on your own? Because, for starters, you should just get up in two point at all three gaits (begin at the beginning, the walk!) and STAY UP all the way around the arena, without falling back into the saddle. When you can do that, both directions, all three gaits, for say 5 minutes, without collapsing AT ALL (work up to 15 minutes at a time, great conditioning for both you and the horse)- then, find someone to go outside the arena with you, somewhere, anywhere, a dirt road will do, and do the same while going as fast as you can. If your instructor can't help, I'll bet if you call someone in your hunt (Kenada?) they would be more than happy to help you out.

I realize, having grown up in Houston, that your neighborhood is pretty darned flat- but even on flat ground you do need to be able to stay in a two point to gallop for reasons others have mentioned. You CAN hunt with the slower hilltopper groups without having perfected this skill- but don't try first flight!

[Hopeful Hunter]

I'm far too much of a weenie to ever actually hunt, as in, go out in nature *gasp!*, but I do tend to like OTTBs.

So, many years ago, my then trainer - upon my getting an accomplished older ex-racer who still like to blow off steam every now and then - decided I needed to learn to gallop. I am eternally grateful she did, and did so with a safe horse. We started in what I learned was a hand gallop, and when I didn't die from that, she had me bridge the reins, get up a bit more and urge my horse on. I learned how to balance myself and how to continue to properly cue my horse to steer and slow down without jerking on him while doing so only because she took the time to teach me.

I can't imaging sitting a gallop, though - even on my stretched out flat TBs there's just waaayy too much motion to stay in the saddle IMO.

[enjoytheride]

Is the hunt "gallop" race horse fast? I've galloped horses while jumping or conditioning and found it much easier to get out of the saddle in a two point.

Years ago when I was stupider and younger I worked at a trail ride place and we'd take the fast horses out to a big field and race them. I've never gone that fast before and frankly never want to again! This was in a western saddle but when the horses geared into a "run" they lengthened, dropped lower to the ground, and the movement became easier to sit then a walk. The lazier horses would gallop behind but not hit that extra gear. It was exhilirating and terrifying to find that notch faster then "gallop" and distinctivly different. This speed wouldn't be safe for anything but flat ground and not over fences. It's a miracle I didn't kill myself.

So to me a "gallop" and a "run" are two different things. The gallop feels different then a canter and is easier to 2 point, and the run is an alien thing.

[altjaeger]

enjoytheride, you bring up a topic I've never heard discussed -- "the run". Maybe someone else has experienced this?

Anyway, I can 2-point indefinitely in walk, trot, and, canter -- that's not the issue. The issue, question, really, was whether I could have moved from canter to gallop and remained sitting.

The consensus answer seems to be "no". So, I was probably just in a fast canter.

[CBudFrggy]

Aaah, but to run, is FUN! ;) :cool:

ETA: Maybe I should elaborate. My horse (lower level eventer, grade TB of suspicious origins) has Walk, Trot, Canter, Hand-Gallop, Run and Really Run. Run is exhilarating, with hind leg pushing off the ground, and feeling the flexion and folding of the stifle as his rear hooves near his belly reaching forward for the next stride, the pulling forward of the hooves and pushing of the hindquarters, through the stifle and gaskin when the hooves reach the ground and push forward, all while the front legs are just lightly hitting the ground so that you barely hear them. The neck reaching forward, the gentle lean on the bit, and feeling self-conscious because you don't want to make a false move and destroy the beauty of it. Then a light cluck and it gets longer, faster and lighter still, and its so fast you don't dare look sideways at the fenceposts going by, b/c you know you'll chicken out and pull up, and it's over in less than a mile anyway due to restrictions of space.

[JSwan]

In hunting parlance, a "run" isn't a gait. It's another way of describing the chase. The chase is a measure of the hounds effort; not the distance the quarry was chased. That is significant - as the word "chase" is often misunderstood or misinterpreted.

A "run" could therefore be at any gait, or a mixture of them. It could be over fences or not, through gates or not, through fields, woods, on the flat or up and down hills.

I might say to a friend, "That was one heck of a run". And not mean that I was flat out galloping the whole time. I might say that because of the twists and turns, the steep hill, the uncertainty of blind country, the creek we crossed that wasn't as shallow as I thought it was, etc.

Or, it could mean I've never ridden so fast in my life. It depends. :)

[CBudFrggy]

Obviously, I just meant to RUN. :winkgrin:

[Dispatcher]

Obviously, I just meant to RUN. :winkgrin:

Ha! Yes, TO run as opposed to A run. TO run meaning to gallop, A run meaning when the hounds have picked up the scent and take off in search of their fox!

[JSwan]

I was responding more for wanabe's benefit.

The first time my horse dropped and found another gear I was really surprised. Then I wondered if he had another one. And then I decided I didn't really want to find out because it occurred to me I wasn't sure if I could stop him.

Didn't know the little guy had it in him. :lol:

[Hunter's Rest]

To the question whether 'you hit racing speed when hunting.'
Well, having ridden 100+ races (steeplechases and on the flat track) and having hunted 1000s of times over 40+ years, HELL YES you hit racing speed when hunting. But not for prolonged periods of time.
On a straight-necked fox, with a good headstart, on good open terrain, on good footing, on a good blood horse, behind good hounds, hell yeah you hit a 2 minute lick (15-second furlong -- chase speed) for a goodly period of time, sure. But you have to check up to turn-jump-get in line, etc., so you don't 'do it' for long.
As to a 12-second furlong (flat track speed) you might occassionally hit this pace, but only for a few strides, and only if you're a really superb rider on a seriously talented horse on a perfectly straight sand lane or something. And that sort of speed, naturally, in a hunting parlance, only lasts a stride or two.
Re: galloping vs. cantering. Who cares. It is impossible to tell the diff. when riding anyway. If you and your horse are safe and comfortable and keeping up (while not passing, etc.) then good on you.

[cavaliermax]

My horse is a TB with a beautifully smooth canter and gallop. Moving to two point when he canters or gallops seems perfectly natural. When I want to stop, I sit and squeeze my legs and hands. We still have to do a "Blue Angel" peel off to avoid a collision, sometimes.

[Sithly]

This was in a western saddle but when the horses geared into a "run" they lengthened, dropped lower to the ground, and the movement became easier to sit then a walk. The lazier horses would gallop behind but not hit that extra gear. It was exhilirating and terrifying to find that notch faster then "gallop" and distinctivly different. This speed wouldn't be safe for anything but flat ground and not over fences. It's a miracle I didn't kill myself.

So to me a "gallop" and a "run" are two different things. The gallop feels different then a canter and is easier to 2 point, and the run is an alien thing.

Hm. That's actually what I first thought of when I read the thread title, but then I read the rest of the responses and thought maybe I was just weird. Now I'm confused. But I've experienced that same "flattening out" feeling, which I always thought was really smooth once they settle into it, like floating. It's exhilarating. :D

[altjaeger]

Interesting responses -- keep them coming if you've got them!

The 2 times I pushed my horse into what I believe was gallop, on this last hunt, I only did it for 50 yards and 200 yards -- and it was late in the hunt when I felt pretty sure my horse would respond to my requests to slow back to canter.

I've not familiar with terms like "12-second" furlong -- I guess that's racing lingo. All I know is mph :) Reading about the hand gallop on Wikipedia, it's clear that there's a huge difference in gallop speeds as they say the hand gallop is at 14-16 mph and I've read the QH can hit almost 54 mph. (!)

[Acertainsmile]

A furlong is an eighth of a mile, so a racehorse would run a 12 second eighth, a 1/4 mile in 24 sec and so on...which is fast, but not fastest!! (I've been on horses who have run an eighth in 9 seconds... believe me, you can feel the difference!

[goeslikestink]

How difficult is it to sit the gallop in an English saddle? I ask because I thought I got my horse into a real (i.e. 4-beat) gallop for the first time on a hunt and yet I sat for the 200 or so yards we went like this. Now, I'm beginning to have doubts -- perhaps it was just a super-fast canter. (?)

more than likely for 200yards was an extended canter, if you feel unsecure and you had to sort off sit to get your balance, then put yourself in the cross country position and bridge your reins
so your not going to faff about trying to get hold of your horse head if youlost your reins slightly to regain control

look here http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.equine-world.co.uk%2Friding_horses%2Fgallop.htm&ei=QMEfSf7hK4bgwgHLhKSwBw&usg=AFQjCNFNiGag-G3rvBXUReMrkFXcdofpHA&sig2=2U82YFA7_F5yjVywDYMY3g


i would be concern with you a tad i know that your an adult male rider,but youve not been riding long
and if you dont know what pace your horse is at, then thats also tells me your a novice rider
perhaps one ouaght to go to lesson and hae a few clinics as they are also fun and soemthing you can do with your horse, your own hunt should hold them or have instructors
which might be called rallies, you might also think of attending a few x/c country or hunter trial events which is great fun and also a learning curve of how to control your paces over the course of jumps also attend a few jumping lessons

[Hunter's Rest]

2 minute lick = 2 minute mile (= 15 second furlong = 60 second half-mile, etc.) = 30 mph.
That's general chase speed and general 'open gallop' working speed.
12 second furlong (and even 9 second which ACS has done!!) = way faster. I think I did the math once and 12 sec. eighth = 38 mph.

[altjaeger]

more than likely for 200yards was an extended canter, if you feel unsecure and you had to sort off sit to get your balance, then put yourself in the cross country position and bridge your reins
so your not going to faff about trying to get hold of your horse head if youlost your reins slightly to regain control

look here http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=6&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.equine-world.co.uk%2Friding_horses%2Fgallop.htm&ei=QMEfSf7hK4bgwgHLhKSwBw&usg=AFQjCNFNiGag-G3rvBXUReMrkFXcdofpHA&sig2=2U82YFA7_F5yjVywDYMY3g


i would be concern with you a tad i know that your an adult male rider,but youve not been riding long
and if you dont know what pace your horse is at, then thats also tells me your a novice rider
perhaps one ouaght to go to lesson and hae a few clinics as they are also fun and soemthing you can do with your horse, your own hunt should hold them or have instructors
which might be called rallies, you might also think of attending a few x/c country or hunter trial events which is great fun and also a learning curve of how to control your paces over the course of jumps also attend a few jumping lessons

I've been taking lessons for 3 1/2 years -- is that not considered long? I am confused as to how I am supposed to know what gallop feels like when I haven't experienced it before?

Actually, I have galloped once, in a Western saddle, and I was able to sit it. To me, it just felt rough, but without the up and down motion of the canter. But I was able to sit it.

ETA: Well, I've done quite a bit of galloping now, so everyone can stop worrying about me. I don't sit it tho. I find it smoother than cantering, TBH. I like galloping so much that (and I don't know if this is regarded well, but no one has said anything), when the field has good footing and the fieldmaster is fast cantering, I will hold back and get some distance between me and the rest of the field and then urge my horse on into gallop, just for the fun of it.)

I still say in those old cowboy films of the '30s, the riders look like they are sitting the gallop. Also, when I was in Egypt, I asked the BO where I rented a horse if they sat or 2-pointed the gallop, and he said "Sit, of course."

[tkhawk]

I don't hunt but do a gallop on occasion-by myself or with my riding buddy. But on the QH-do they really hit 54mph as one of the posters mentioned above? I thought it was more like 40mph?
But I do gallop with my riding buddy and her paint. Usually at start the paint always overtakes my Arab mare-she can burst a move but in a while my mare catches up and overtakes the paint mare. We have a lot of fire road type trails and once you get far enough from the staging area, there are lot of slightly uphill sloping and some very steep uphill trails that you can see a long distance. The footing is good so we just run as fast as they can go-I like it and so do our horses. Nice change of pace..Although I think almost always you are in two point-it is like you are almost naturally pushed there? Canter-I sit-my mare has a lovely smooth canter and I much prefer that to a trot....

[armandh]

my first hunt horse was a QH
http://members.arstechnica.com/x/armandh2/over2.jpg
D ring savers were a must because he could really launch.
one had to ride a little forward to an up bank

but when he kicked in to overdrive he ran like a greyhound.
his back would come up and he put quite a kick in to the forward motion.

by comparison my second hunt horse TWHxClyde was smooth and one could sit a bit on a long run. [photo in my profile]

#3 has not been at it long enough for me to put in a category but it is to the smooth side

[Chall]

Well speaking from experience..I've "sat" the gallop bareback more than once but never intentionally. And since the only reason he went into a gallop was because I was leaning too far forward trying to goose him into a canter, then I was already off his back somewhat. So I was in a very forward position made more so because I was holding on to his mane trying to stay on.
How do you feel the difference between a canter and a gallop? Transitioning from a gallop to canter is the drop down feeling where you actually get closer to the earth, the wind starts whistling in your ears and you can no longer hear the hoof beats separately as in a canter. You will also feel the back muscles stretching out underneath you. And ( I found) it a much smoother gait then the canter..until you start to try to transition down.
The last clue I was in a gallop was I was aware of how much stronger he was than I am and how much trouble I was in!

[SmartAlex]

The last clue I was in a gallop was I was aware of how much stronger he was than I am and how much trouble I was in!


Ah yes.. the "Oh Crap" feeling. I had it just yesterday, and I just ride a prissy ole Saddlebred. I was watching the end of the field come up fast and was hoping he saw it to and had a plan he was keeping from me.

[CBudFrggy]

Ah yes.. the "Oh Crap" feeling. I had it just yesterday, and I just ride a prissy ole Saddlebred. I was watching the end of the field come up fast and was hoping he saw it to and had a plan he was keeping from me.

I had that feeling once, as we ran toward the edge of the top of the dump. :eek: