What to do with a nonpaying retiree

[snkstacres]

While most of the horses come in as rescue, I have allowed a couple of people to retire horses here for simply there costs. NOT A DIME profit. The three horses that are retirement boarded here are all unrideable, older kids. But.......................I have one guy here, he was to be a temporary retiree till his owner found a place she could afford to buy him. Term was one year. Well, we are going on five years now. I have never met her, never spoken to her, never had an email or a question from her. I only know her name, someone else deliver the horse.

Anyhow, this ladies board has never gone up a dime although the costs of keeping the horse sure have, it has doubled. And to make matters worse, this lady falls further and further behind in her board fee. I am always left wondering if the horse has been abandoned and then a check comes in. I wrote to her about this problem on several occassions. I put the money out from my pocket. No way this guy will go without his feed or farrier or anything else for that matter. And hey, over the years, I have grown to really love and care about this boy but enough is enough.

The law pretty much states that I would have to sell this guy to the highest bidder in order to recoup my losses but I have no intention of putting him out there. Not any horse would go that way here. My inclination is to have this guy transported back to his owner but I do fear what would happen to him. If she cant pay $100 dollars here, she sure as heck wont be able to keep him anywhere else.

Sadly, after he came here, another person told me that is why he came here. No other place would keep him for a person who was well known to not pay his board costs. So, what or how would you guys handle this?

My first concern is for the horse no matter what but................................he either becomes the farms horse or he goes back to his owner. HOW???????????

And yes, I do have a contract on this horse.

[cloudyandcallie]

Hey Lori,

Equine Law and RNB and one Alpharetta lawyer (don't know if she wants her name mentioned) and I did a lot of research on the GA horse boarding laws last summer, with the stolen ponies thread (poofed), and maybe we can figure this out for you, without your having to auction off the horse.

Back later, going to barn now.

[Catersun]

Curious... but who says the highest bidder had to be "someone else" Why can't it be the farm, or someone who donated the horse back to the farm.

[LongLeaf]

Lori,

By law, after the appropriate notification to the owner, you are allowed to "dispose of" the animal as you see fit. You can either sell it, give it away or place it with a rescue - LOL. If you sell it, any procedes above and beyond what the owner owes you, must be given back to the owner. In short - you don't HAVE to sell the horse - it is your decision if you'd like to find it an appropriate giveaway / adoptive home.

See page 17 here...

http://agr.georgia.gov/vgn/images/portal/cit_1210/63/44/125408890Stable%20Application%20Packet%2010-17-08.pdf

Edited to add: The only thing you can't do is Euth said horse.

[Ambrey]

But that's a concern- what if he starts having health problems? Better to take care of this now, I'd think.

[snkstacres]

The horse already has health issues if you call ringbone and sidebone health issues. He is a great great horse and the chances of adopting him are next to nothing but............. he could hopefully find a sponsor if he remained with the farm as a farm horse. If the owner just signed him over, it would all be done and I wouldnt have to give her another thought. Then I could do what I think is best for this boy which would definitely be shoes. At this point, it all comes out of my personal pocket when she doesnt pay and it frustrates me. How can this lady think she can just go on and on like this, never even asking how he is or discussing the progression of his disease. Either live up to your agreement or let the horse go altogether.

If there is a way to legal maintain custody without having to dispose of him, then I am all for it. If she doesnt realize that we have grown very attached to this boy, then that will be her problem. She has only to gain from this but in the end, the horse gains more.

thanks for looking into this for me.

[Cherry]

How can this lady think she can just go on and on like this, never even asking how he is or discussing the progression of his disease.
Lori, the sad truth is she thinks she can go on like this because you have been allowing her to go on like this. I would have been all over her like hair on a gorilla the very first time she missed her rent payment. I'm sure you've been told this before but--you are too nice!!!! (Thanks for being like that but when you have a business [and a rescue/boarding facility needs to be run like a business in order to succeed] you have to get tough, make hard decisions and implement those decisions). ;)

Hopefully our COTHers can come up with a plan you (and that horse) can live with! :yes: :)

[Ambrey]

The horse already has health issues if you call ringbone and sidebone health issues.

What I meant was health issues requiring rapid decisionmaking. What if he colics? What if you need to make an end-of-life choice for him?

[cloudyandcallie]

Lori,

By law, after the appropriate notification to the owner, you are allowed to "dispose of" the animal as you see fit. You can either sell it, give it away or place it with a rescue - LOL. If you sell it, any procedes above and beyond what the owner owes you, must be given back to the owner. In short - you don't HAVE to sell the horse - it is your decision if you'd like to find it an appropriate giveaway / adoptive home.

See page 17 here...

http://agr.georgia.gov/vgn/images/portal/cit_1210/63/44/125408890Stable%20Application%20Packet%2010-17-08.pdf

Edited to add: The only thing you can't do is Euth said horse.

But if you leave your dog/cat/horse with a vet and he/she sends you the demand letter, and you don't pick up in 10 days, the vet can euth. so don't leave an animal with a vet and get in a wreck, or get stranded out of the country, cause your animal could be dead when you get home.

[Woodland]

As long as she is a good boarder other wise, here is how I would handle it.

Mrs X we have a consistent problem with you getting Triggers board here on time. I want from you one years worth of post dated checks to cover his board, shoeing, worming and vet expenses.

I will be putting these checks in the bank the first of every month unless I hear from you. If Trigger should pass on the remainder of the checks will be returned to you.

This will clear up any confusion as to when Triggers board is due. And it will save me the angst(yes I have said this) of me trying to locate you to get the board paid on time.

If you can not do this for Trigger, you must move him from my stables by the end of this month.

Honey I know you have a rescue, but it is also a BUSINESS - treat it like one!

[RockinHorse]

Have you asked the owner if she would be willing to sign the horse over to you? Perhaps she would be happy to get out from under the responsibility if she knows there is a safe place for the horse.

[FindersKeepers]

I would send her a letter, certified, stating that you need to be paid in full for all of his costs, and that she needs to have a check to you BY the 1st of every month, or she will be charged late fees for everyday that goes by before you get the check (and make it slightly outrageous). and then offer her the option of signing him over to the farm and all her responsibility goes away.

That is how I would handle this one. If she doesn't respond to your letter/meet the terms of it, you find a lawyer and take her to small claims court.

[twinkle]

If she can't afford $100.00 /month could you talk to her and see if she could affoard to p[ay a little less-like $90.00. tell her it's only if she pays on time. If she doesn't the cost goes back to $100. Just a thought.

[Cherry]

Term was one year. Well, we are going on five years now.
Well, whose fault is it??? :uhoh: Sorry, but you have been an enabler. I would ask her to sign the horse over to you and I would look for some people who might be willing to sponsor him until he meets his maker.... ;)

If she doesn't respond to your letter/meet the terms of it, you find a lawyer and take her to small claims court.
Don't think you need a lawyer for small claims court, but even so--this person has not been responsible in the past, and is not likely to be responsible in the future! I think it's pointless to look for back rent from this person, especially if she has been in arrears for years....

I'd just take possession of the horse if she'll turn it over (for back rent) and that is the easiest way to resolve this issue.

[greysandbays]

As long as she is a good boarder other wise, here is how I would handle it.

Mrs X we have a consistent problem with you getting Triggers board here on time. I want from you one years worth of post dated checks to cover his board, shoeing, worming and vet expenses.

I will be putting these checks in the bank the first of every month unless I hear from you. If Trigger should pass on the remainder of the checks will be returned to you.

This will clear up any confusion as to when Triggers board is due. And it will save me the angst(yes I have said this) of me trying to locate you to get the board paid on time.


If she did this, my bet would be that the first couple of checks would be OK, then the next one would come back with an "account closed", and horse owner would have pulled up stakes and left no forwarding address.

This method only works with people who actually have the money and intend to pay but tend to be absent minded (but not so absent minded that they leave their checkbook laying around to get nabbed and have to close the account and re-open another).

[pAin't_Misbehavin']

Lori - I'm not licensed to practice in Georgia, so I can't give you legal advice about the Georgia code, but reading the link Longleaf posted it doesn't sound as though your only option is to sell the horse. The statute appears to say you can "dispose" of the horse ten days after sending the demand to the owner by certified mail, and the statute says "disposal" includes turning the horse over to a shelter. So aren't you a shelter?:)

I wonder if there's not at least one attorney in Georgia who likes horses and who might take you on as a pro bono project?*cough*hint*cough:winkgrin:

[equinelaw]

LMH went through the whole Ga thing for another Cothr last summer. The law is just what the statute says. Just send a letter or call them and say you have 10 days. You don't need to prove they got notice and they have 10 says to pay or you keep the animals and do whatever you want with them.

Its shockingly easy and even the opposing counsel was blown over by the lack of necessary due process and short time frame. But that's exactly how it played out and the boarding place owned the ponies a few weeks later.

It doesn't require a lawyer or any court process unless the owner disputes the fees and asks for a hearing. Even then, since she does owe money and you are telling the truth its not a case that needs legal counsel to solve.

In the other hand, if you owned the horse what would really change? The owner is not taking responsibility, but if you pretend she is not the owner but just someone donating some money now and then do you really gain from releasing her of that guilt and obligation?

Is your goal to adopt the horse out or to just be done with the owner? If the horse is staying with you either way $100 every other month is still better then nothing.

[snkstacres]

Equine law, you have made a very very good point but.................this is how I feel. I ask you guys to help to support the rescues. I dont feel bad about that because I believe with all my heart that anyone who does horses, be it breeding, training, teaching, showing, enjoying, will at some time need a rescue, have a horse they once sold in rescue or whatever, but touch rescue in some way. I also know you all work hard to support your own horses like the rest of us and so..................the way I feel is that you should not have to support a horse at all that in fact belongs to someone else.
Yes, $100 every couple of months is better than nothing but again, what she doesnt pay for, I pay for out of MY pocket. He recieves no Sunkissed funds of any sort. But, as long as he is not a Sunkissed Horse, there is nothing stopping her from coming and picking him up either. Just one day out of the blue, she could do that because she does own him. And to me, that is unfair, both the myself and the horse. If he became one of the rescue retirees, I could then fundraise for him to recieve the treatment he needs. He is not getting that now at all. He gets great feed, good farrier care and all the vet work necessary but.........................he needs special shoes and supplements and with that, he might actually be adoptable. He needs it for his comfort and his overall wellbeing. I see no reason for me to pay for that, and I see even less reason for others to pay for it.

I am going to do as you say and trust that it really does make a lot of sense. This lady has never so much as asked me once how the horse is doing or does he need anything. Not a single word so I sincerely doubt she will bother at all if I do take the guy. It will free her of the obligation and for all she knows, he was dead long ago. Most people at least ask from time to time how the horse they gave up is doing. But, she didnt give up her horse.

Thanks for all the advice. A registered letter is off today.

[snkstacres]

Cherry, you are correct, I am an enabler. heheh thank heavens I am not in the business to make money LOL. The reason I went to rescue is because so many retirees which is what I started out doing, became abandoned old horses.

This guy came in under a bit of false pretenses to begin with. You see, his other BO brought him and it was someone else entirely who told me she convinced his owner to send him here because owner was always so far behind on board. It was the BO who delivered him here with a real rescue and told me it would be one year. Not the owner. I have had no contact with the owner but I sent a contract to her and she signed and sent it back.

I allowed this boy to remain longer because.....................................while everyone immediately adores the way he looks, they cant touch him. In the four months that WA lived here, she was never able to catch this guy. I am the only person who can and so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, I didnt want to just pass on the problem. I can deal with issues but.......other boarding facilities will not want to deal with his.

I am simply going to ask his owner to sign him over. Moving this boy would not be a good thing at all for either him or another facility that gets him. You would have to be paid an awful lot of money to deal with him but there is not an unkind bone in his body. If she wants to move him so she still owns him, then she has two weeks to find him a ride and get him gone. My heart wont allow a lot more cause I really do love this boy and his funny ways. I cant help but wonder what has happened along the way to make a guy after even five years still untouchable and untrusting. His other BO said they left a halter and rope on him all the time and sometimes he got fed, others not. More not. Either way, this will be resolved shortly, thanks for the push.

I am a marshmallow and will be the first to admit it. hahaaha and I do rely on you cothers to give me the kick I need from time to time. Then again, marshmallow is required with my job description.

[ChocoMare]

Ok Lori. It's time for the Dr. Laura treatment:

1. Hold up your right hand.

2. Place it behind your back and rub up and down.

3. Feel that bumping thing?

4. It's a SPINE. Now, go use it. :winkgrin:

[Cherry]

Chocomare!!!!! :winkgrin:

Lori, I know how you are! I'm pretty much like that too, but less so the older I get.... ;) :yes:

Yes, unfortunately, when humans don't step up to the plate and do the right thing their animals (and all the animals around them) tend to suffer! :mad: I hope this owner does the right thing and relinquishes the horse to your rescue so you can both (you and the horse) have some peace.... :yes:

No next time though--okay???? :lol: You can be a marshmallow without becoming a doormat!!!!

[equinelaw]

I don't think it has anything to do with being a wimp. You know and like the horse and you just want whats best for him.

If she can't manage to come up with $100 a month every month she wont find any place cheaper. I doubt she'll come and take him, but she probably has no idea how much it really costs to keep a horse like him happy and healthy. It sure isn't part of $100 a month.

He's much better off with you and if she really wants him she can pay up and keep paying, if she doesn't she is off the hook. If she wants to come and get him then she should be on her own. The horse hasn't seen her in five years and no law says you have to help her catch him!:)

[snkstacres]

hahahahahahah ok Chocomare, I laughed out loud. You are perfectly right as was Cherry.

I took the plunge today. I not only sent her a certified letter, return reciept requested, I sent her with that, a release form.

I also told her I would gladly make shipping arrangements home at her expense. I MAKE THE ARRANGEMENTS. since she cant live up to her agreement to begin with. I also made it clear that if this horse is to continue to live here, it will cost her $175 a month from January on with a 5 dollar a day penalty for each day late. After 10 days late without contact, I will assume the horse abandoned and take soul custody of the horse without any further contact.

So, while my back bone made not be a whole lot stronger hon, when it comes to the well being of the kids, I can grow one. I just did LOL.

thanks to all of you.

[ChocoMare]

You're a good egg :D