Spin-off: Vets/students, off campus living

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I am working on my prerequisites for vet school, and have mapped out a plan I think will work. My question is, if you lived off campus, how did you pay your rent/mortgage while in school? How much could you actually work while in vet school?

[eyesontheground]

Two Words for you: STUDENT LOANS

(oh and the ability to manage the large amount of money that "appears" in your bank account at the beginning of the semester)

If you are creative or lucky you can find some sort of working/living situation that allows you to avoid extra student loans. But, I would not count on being able to work enough in vet school to pay your rent. I mean really, you have worked your a$$ off to get there...do you want to blow it because you have to work 30 hrs/wk to pay your rent on top of school? (Is this even possible?)

[Malatonn]

You **may** have the time to work 5-10 hours a week in the hospital, one of the labs, waiting tables, etc. However, I cannot express to you how much your life will change. The 40-50 hours a week you will spend in class doesn't even begin to touch the 30-40 hours a week you'll spend studying. And that's just to keep up:)

Be judicious in how much loans you take out, and try to get in-state tuition if at all possible. It's amazing how much vet school costs, and how little you make once you get out!

Feel free to PM if you need to chat. BTDT, Have the 120K T-Shirt:yes:

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

Well, my plan includes moving to the state I would like to go to vet school in, so I won't be paying 30K a year, just 10-14K :eek: as my current state doesn't have a vet school in state. I am also going to attempt to finish my undergrad at the same school. I am also a tech (will be licensed in about a year), and am looking at schools with teaching hospitals so I can work there during undergrad. Do you know if most schools do tuition reimbursement for prevet/vet school if you work there?

[exvet]

I did a lot of part-time work, odd jobs for the first 3 years of vet school and then had to rely on my loans and what I had saved to pay for living expenses and my horse's board my last year. I worked in the vet school library, worked on various post doc graduate projects (in the labs at vet school) - both paid hourly wages, cleaned stalls (34 of them) in the morning before going to school (this was before I had to be on call in my 3rd/4th years), waited tables on the weekends, etc. I also rode/exercised people's horses and braided manes and tails for just about every horseshow that was held at the fairgrounds across the street. Ended up graduating with only $17,000 in debt, paid off in 3 years. Of course I put myself through undergrad the same way - no loans though.

[Eventer13]

I did a lot of part-time work, odd jobs for the first 3 years of vet school and then had to rely on my loans and what I had saved to pay for living expenses and my horse's board my last year. I worked in the vet school library, worked on various post doc graduate projects (in the labs at vet school) - both paid hourly wages, cleaned stalls (34 of them) in the morning before going to school (this was before I had to be on call in my 3rd/4th years), waited tables on the weekends, etc. I also rode/exercised people's horses and braided manes and tails for just about every horseshow that was held at the fairgrounds across the street. Ended up graduating with only $17,000 in debt, paid off in 3 years. Of course I put myself through undergrad the same way - no loans though.

You're my hero.

[exvet]

No hero. My father disowned me when I decided to go to vet school instead of medical school or the PhD programs I was accepted to and received stipends for; so, as they say "where there is a will there's a way." My father has since "forgiven" me; of course it took an MBA for him to consider me worthy :eek:

[JanM]

Fizzy-I don't know how you find this out but most states without vet schools of their own have agreements with a neighboring state with a school that enables you to get instate tuition and maybe a better chance at admissions. Years ago my cousin in Oklahoma wanted to go to vet school and she would have had this program at Arkansas (I think Arkansas-it's been a long time). You might also look around for something like another poster asked about with renting a mother-in-law apartment or room with a stall on the farm available too-that might be cheaper depending on the commute.
Be careful about moving to a state to qualify for in-stae tuition-a friend's daughter wanted to do this and they had very specific requirements and time periods to qualify.

[exvet]

I'm guessing the OP already is familiar with the following for Arizona state residents, which is a program to qualify for in-state tuition at the participating vet schools. The problem is that at least 2 of those vet schools are a couple of the most expensive even based on in-state tuition. But here you go:

In order to qualify for WICHE, you must meet the following criteria:

Be a resident of Arizona for 5 or more years
Be accepted into one of the WICHE schools
Upon completion of a DVM, you must return to Arizona and provide 4 years (or 2 years in under served regions) of professional service or reimburse the state half of the money (plus interest) it provided for your education

We have employed quite a few vets who went through vet school via the WICHE program and all I can say is that they still have a staggering debt load.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I am familiar with WICHE, not really interested because of the price (even in state is a lot), and I don't want to be forced to come back to AZ to work. I am interested in equine, and would like to have the freedom to go where the best opportunity is. I have looked into the rules for in state tuition in the states I am interested in, and it's generally a year. I don't have a horse (as of yet), but I am looking to buy a house in the area. My father has said that he would help me out if need be, but he is retired and on a fixed income, so I don't want to accept that offer if I don't have to.

Another question...how many of you chose large animal/equine over small?

[Mav226]

Not sure about vet school, I did law and grad school. But student loans allow you to take out 'cost of living' expenses. That's how we paid our mortgage. You may have to get private loans if the federal ones don't cover it.

Just be careful, student loans can't be discharged in case of bankruptcy--so don't go crazy with them.

[exvet]

I started out all equine/large animal, did a large animal internship and was a resident vet on a breed farm for a couple of years as well as worked at the track for an area practice. Moved back home and was one of two large animal practitioners in a very rural area. It wasn't too long after that I decided to go into industry (still using my degrees) and continued doing relief work for my best friend's equine practice. I came back to full-time equine practice but with kids 4 & 7 I just couldn't justify the hours and on call duty anymore so I've been 100% small animal for going on 5 years now.

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I'm hoping not to have to take out TOO much in student loans! I was also thinking that I might get a roommate in for the 4 years of vet school. Figure I won't be home much anyway to get bothered! :lol:

exvet -- are there more opportunities in small animal than equine? I talk to people in small animal, they say the $$ is in equine...talk to equine people, they say the $$ is in small animal!!

[exvet]

exvet -- are there more opportunities in small animal than equine? I talk to people in small animal, they say the $$ is in equine...talk to equine people, they say the $$ is in small animal!!

Yes it's the "grass is always greener" effect. There will always be more opportunities in small animal in terms of the sheer number of available positions. Although there is a stronger demand for large animal vets. What that means is on a per capita bases there will always be more dogs/cats than equines running around but the supply of willing participants to shove an arm up a horse's ass in the middle of the night is obviously declining so there is a need, just not in every city. Also, just because there is a need doesn't mean that as a newbie the owner is going to be willing to pay you more from the get go but there may be more "perks" and promises depending on the desperation.

In the first 4-5 years of graduation, you will find, though it does vary depending on area of the country, small animal vets do get paid more than their equine counterparts who are an equal number of years out. Once you get beyond 5 years though equine vets, start to surpass their small animal counterparts in income, especially if we start talking owners but it's true of associates as well. There is more of a ceiling effect of income potential in small animal when speaking of associate status and general (not boarded specialties) DVMs.

Now if we are to start speaking of lifestyle and QOL, well that depends on the individual preferences but in general small animal vets do not have to work as many hours, the hours are more consistent and predictable, and the job is usually less physically demanding (except I'm in a practice with the typical young staff and not a dam one of them can lift over 40 lbs......I, the old bag, am the one doing all the lifting of heavy dogs, wrestling of aggressive dogs....yada yada 'cause I"m the only one physically capable).

Of course if you work in a rural practice/mixed animal practice all gloves are off 'cause usually you're pulling your own emergencies regardless of species of beast and the job takes over your life (which can happen in other types of practice) Fact remains, if you're the only vet in a 5 county area, let's just say I know from first-hand experience that your life is no longer your own.

When I went to school it was well known that I was large animal. I grew up on a dairy farm and was riding before I learned how to walk. I still am scared to death of aggressive cats. I would rather work head gates and pull OB chains (on cattle) than deal with some cats and dogs but the fact of the matter is that I (and I'm speaking on a very personal level) cannot juggle two kids, 8 horses, showing/training, a husband, two elderly parents (which is why I live in AZ now) and ON CALL DUTY. I tried [again] once my kids were grade school age but my family (husband is also a vet) was miserable. So for me it came down to needing to make a reasonable income but also establishing the right balance in my life. I do enjoy small animal medicine much more than I ever, ever imagined. One reason is that I find small animal vets more willing to support each other and mentor as well as the competition between vets is much less of an "ordeal". I do still do some equine work on the side and my herd gives me plenty of opportunities as well.

I think it's also important to note that if you go and get a good GENERAL education in vet med your choices will be endless. It's up to you to get as much out of your education as possible. It will also be up to you to focus on areas of special interest but my best advice is that you don't EVER ASSUME that you won't need to know x, y, or z 'cause "I'll never find myself working on that".....Injury, health limitations, life choices, family tragedy or something else totally unexpected may land you where you never thought you might be....and we all still have to make a living......well most of us anyway.

[Anne FS]

exvet, good for you! What year did you graduate? I only ask because vet school tuitions have skyrocketed over the last 5-10 years - it's a tremendous problem.

For instance, as recently as 2000, in-state averaged $10K and out-of-state $21k per year.

By 2001, it was IS $15Kand OOS $29K.

2007: look at Michigan state: $32K IS and $51K OOS - again PER YEAR.

Can't imagine what it'll be next year.

I know some schools are much less expensive for in-staters, but that doesn't help a lot of people.

Makes me look at my vet bills a whole lot differently now.

[JanM]

I think to look at all of the possibilities you will have to look at all of the available vet school programs. Since I'm in Alabama I looked at Auburn and Tuskegee's info and they give precedence to instate applicants and to people from five other states-so your chance of admission will probably depend on moving first, establishing residence and then applying. I've always thought the most challenging part of any job in the medical/vet field is dealing with the parents or owners. And you need to have a good business operation if you either go into partnership with others or go out on your own.

[exvet]

exvet, good for you! What year did you graduate? I only ask because vet school tuitions have skyrocketed over the last 5-10 years - it's a tremendous problem.

Yes the tuition has skyrocketed but my husband's cousin graduated 2 years ago from the same school I graduated from 20 years ago. Her overall tuition cost was only $8,000 more than mine. When I went to vet school I was also accepted to an out-of-state program that at the time was considered one of the top in the country. My choice was to go in-state for a fraction of the cost (what was a relatively new school) or go to the "higher end" school and graduate, based on tuition costs alone, with $80,000 in debt and that was 25 years ago. Yes, tuition costs have risen but there are still at least 3 schools in the country that if you attend as an in-state resident are still the best bargains around. It all depends on how badly you want it, how smart you are with your planning (and budgeting), and recognizing that you get out of education what you put into it and catapulting your career from there rather than worrying about what big name you will be studying under/working with and hoping you get that "ride" out.

FWIW I use to be a player in the process of the AVMA accreditation of vet & vet tech education programs not all that long ago (5 years ago actually) so I'm not that far out of the loop and though I must admit to being old bag status, I wasn't treating colics with kerosene ........my career is a little more recent and up-to-date than that :winkgrin: