Are there any Videos of Rox Dene?

[ImmortalSynn]

....been searching for yearrrrssss, never been able to find one.

Would've loved to see how she moved, as that's something still-pics cannot show.

[pippy]

Cboylen would be the one to ask.

[TheOrangeOne]

I don't know that sharing videos with the public would be so great- probably the same thing with very many great horses. Can you imagine all the people who would have to say something nasty just because? It's more fair to her to keep the commentary to people who have seen her, I would think. Not my horse, but that is my guess.

[ImmortalSynn]

Cboylen would be the one to ask.
Is that a member here? Or someone/something other?

I don't know that sharing videos with the public would be so great- probably the same thing with very many great horses. Can you imagine all the people who would have to say something nasty just because? It's more fair to her to keep the commentary to people who have seen her, I would think. Not my horse, but that is my guess.
Um, you realize that that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, do you not?

[pippy]

I don't know that sharing videos with the public would be so great- probably the same thing with very many great horses. Can you imagine all the people who would have to say something nasty just because? It's more fair to her to keep the commentary to people who have seen her, I would think. Not my horse, but that is my guess.

You are very wise. Never thought about it that way, but I agree with you.

[ImmortalSynn]

Never thought about it that way, but I agree with you.
Then help me out here, because it seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Why would you hide the legacy of an already widely-famous horse (I mean, she has a Breyer model made after her, for cryin' out loud!) just on the off-chance that someone immature would "say something nasty" about her?

And even if someone did-- so what?

Rox Dene has got a string of national championships under her name. She's won working, open, and confirmation classes. She's been champion or reserve in nearly every ring she's stepped foot in. What could any rational person say bad about her, and not come off as a fool for doing so?

There's no logic in hiding her rounds. They should be presented for all the world to see, as an inspiration for just how close one can come to perfection.

[eqrider1234]

i dont think people would say bad things about her, she is a legend you know.. and unfortunatly one that i have only heard about :( i personally think the younger generation should get to see what the famous Rox Dene was all about :D

[eqrider1234]

Then help me out here, because it seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Why would you hide the legacy of an already widely-famous horse (I mean, she has a Breyer model made after her, for cryin' out loud!) just on the off-chance that someone immature would "say something nasty" about her?

And even if someone did-- so what?

Rox Dene had got a string of national championships under her name. She's won working, open, and confirmation. She's been champion or reserve in nearly every ring she's stepped foot in. What could any rational person say bad about her, and not come off as a fool for doing so?

There's no logic in hiding her rounds. They should be presented for all the word to see, as an inspiration for just how close one can come to perfection.


I AGREE!!

[pippy]

CBoylen owns her, and I believes she lives at her farm. Like I said, she would be the one to ask. She is a member on this forum, and she is really the only one who could answer your questions.

[Tha Ridge]

There was a topic about this awhile ago. I believe Chanda said that there are a few tapes at her mom's house, but I don't think anything has been digitized for the computer.

[DMK]

i dont think people would say bad things about her, she is a legend you know.. and unfortunatly one that i have only heard about :( i personally think the younger generation should get to see what the famous Rox Dene was all about :D

That's true enough, but after you have witnessed the Mass Stupidity that is the interweb tubes, it's easy enough to see why people would choose to keep their private life exactly that. Kind of sucks for y'all that didn't get to see her go in real life. However since I totally understand the impulse to keep my business MY business, I also see the need to respect that in everyone else.

To the OP, yes, CBoylen would be a) an occasional poster on this BB and b) Rox Dene's owner.

[ImmortalSynn]

but I don't think anything has been digitized for the computer.
heck, I'd volunteer! Be no problem to digitalize those things!

[CBoylen]

I have considered uploading video, due to the many requests. But after spending a good deal of time on the internet I am reluctant to do so. I don't think it's fair to the horse, who has nothing left to prove, to have her rounds minutely criticised by the public. That's what seems to happen online in those cases, as theorangeone points out, and I would be very upset.
Video also takes away something of the "special" factor from a trip, and I don't think you can get the same feeling that was always the most amazing part of Rox Dene's trips from taped footage. I would rather the people that were able to see her could remember that feeling of seeing her at her best.
Anyway, if movement is what you were interested in, her trot was never anything to write home about, but she was still at or near the top of most her hacks because there has never been, in my opinion anyway, a horse that has cantered better.

[Equino]

Um, you realize that that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, do you not?

I believe CBoylen has said in the past that's the one of the very reason no video is up on youtube. Not that I can blame her, but anyone who could find any fault with Rox Dene or would think to criticize such a legend should be never be taken seriously! :D

[TheOrangeOne]

Popeye won many championships all over, and you see what people say about him. Look on the breeding forum, even. Just because they are a nice horse doesn't mean someone won't rip them to shreds. Unfortunate but that is how it goes. As we are seeing here about how nice people are...

[ImmortalSynn]

I would rather the people that were able to see her could remember that feeling of seeing her at her best.
...at the loss to the potential millions worldwide, who never got the chance to see anything of her, and even experience half of that feeling at all.

It's heartbreakingly selfish.
But then again, it's your horse... so è la vita for the rest of us, I guess. :(

[lauriep]

It really doesn't matter WHAT you think, ImmortalSyn. Her OWNER has made HER choice, and frankly, I agree with her. Many of us never got to see her in person. Live with it.

[DMK]

...at the loss to the potential millions worldwide, who never got the chance to see anything of her, and even experience half of that feeling at all.

It's heartbreakingly selfish.
But then again, it's your horse... so è la vita for the rest of us, I guess. :(

Millions?? Such high drama, I should think. Better suited for a teenager.

Rox Dene was a show hunter on the A circuit. You'd be hard pressed to find fifty thousand people who have even heard of her, much less feel an ounce of anguish over not getting a chance to see her on You Tube. Try to remember this is a tiny little pond you are floating in. :rolleyes:

But yes, I'm thinking your reaction might reinforce exactly what LP, CB and I are talking about. Sort of like a case study in internet behavior: High drama and low circumstances.

[enjoytheride]

Heartbreakingly selfish? My don't we have a large store of romance novels at our disposal for that phrase.

Come on, its the owner's choice and this owner choses not to take the chance of a bunch of faceless internet people ripping her horse apart.

[seeuatx]

...at the loss to the potential millions worldwide, who never got the chance to see anything of her, and even experience half of that feeling at all.

It's heartbreakingly selfish.
But then again, it's your horse... so è la vita for the rest of us, I guess. :(

Annnnnd I think you just proved her point. While I am amongst the many that would have loved a chance to watch the great grey mare, I think it is something for the legends. And as CBoylen amongst others have pointed out, everyone on the internet has an opinion (check out the Tomboy w/ Rodrigo Pessoa link... it's amazing the armchair quarterbacks that worm their way onto internet), and the mare has nothing left to prove to anyone.

[ImmortalSynn]

Millions?? Such high drama
...not if you'd actually read the word immediately preceding it.

Come on, its the owner's choice and this owner choses not
I'm aware, which is probbbbably why I said:But then again, it's your horse

[enjoytheride]

Yes, and you also decided to take a dig and call her "heartbreakingly selfish" instead of accepting her decision.

[Bearhunter]

It's heartbreakingly selfish.
But then again, it's your horse... so è la vita for the rest of us, I guess. :([/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

Oh, my. :(

I am one of those people that never got that chance to see her either but would NEVER think it SELFISH of her owner not to want to share videos. Shame on you for thinking SHE is the selfish one!

[ImmortalSynn]

(check out the Tomboy w/ Rodrigo Pessoa link... it's amazing the armchair quarterbacks that worm their way onto internet).
....I understand what you're trying to say; but actually, you couldn't have picked a worse example:

His owner's THRILLED that I'm showing her horse to all who wish to remember him-- she figured he'd more or less vanished into obscurity at this point. Same thing with the current owner of former grand prix jumper Mont Cenis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuoTjowCntw).

[Platinum Equestrian]

What years did the mare show? I think I was probably a small child during her glory days, so I don't know much about her. I've heard amazing things though.

CBoylen - Did you own and ride her when she was competing? How exciting to be able to give such an amazing horse their retirement.

[seeuatx]

....I understand what you're trying to say; but actually, you couldn't have picked a worse example:


Did you READ some of the comments on the Youtube video... please :rolleyes:. Want another example? Fine do a COTH search on Andreas and Matinee... read some of *those* comments. The point being that CBoylen does not want those kinds of people dragging her mare down, and I think we can all respect that.

[Tha Ridge]

....I understand what you're trying to say; but actually, you couldn't have picked a worse example:

His owner's THRILLED that I'm showing her horse to all who wish to remember him-- she figured he'd more or less vanished into obscurity at this point. Same thing with the current owner of former grand prix jumper Mont Cenis (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuoTjowCntw).

But those owners might not be as internet-savvy as Chanda is. She is entirely right that people on these forums can be ridiculously cruel and simple-minded and her choice to not share the videos is simply her way of protecting a horse that her family loves very, very much.

I understood what you were asking for until you felt the need to get all 8th grade on us and launch a personal attack. I don't think you'll find very many friends here now.

[enjoytheride]

Do you personally know Tomboy's owner then? Cause people on this BB talk about him all the time and nobody has forgotten such a unique jumper.

[ImmortalSynn]

I understood what you were asking for until you felt the need to get all 8th grade on us and launch a personal attack.
Oh come on, enough with the melodrama already.

I'll stand by what I said... but do know that it was meant only as an observation of the situation at hand, not as a personal slight to anyone. :uhoh:

[eqrider1234]

does any one have any pictures of her? and CBoylen how old is she now.. i really know nothing about her other than the fact that people say oh that one reminds me of Rox Dene..

[ImmortalSynn]

Do you personally know Tomboy's owner then? Cause people on this BB talk about him all the time and nobody has forgotten such a unique jumper.
Personally, no, never met in person.

Not long after I posted his first video, got a few very exciting emails from a woman with a lot of information on the horse that 1) really helped and 2) I really Really REALLY had to dig to find anywhere else and verify. Including a few non-competing pictures of him as well.

So, suffice to say, if that wasn't truly the owner-- then oh well, she still helped out quite a bit.

[pippy]

Oh come on, enough with the melodrama already.

I'll stand by what I said... but do know that it was meant only as an observation of the situation at hand, not as a personal slight to anyone. :uhoh:

Why are you being so mean. Let it go, and respect the wishes of the owner. She has made her point, and you have every right not to agree with her, but not the right to throw digs.

[ImmortalSynn]

does any one have any pictures of her?

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/1362032888066399631njlbgC
http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1425319045073418077BIKQVV
http://nationalshowhunterhalloffame.com/inductees/images/rox_dene.jpg


http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1515972209050057682nyAbfN

[Underdog]

I see your join date is Nov.2 and your total posts are 11 since then.

What exactly is your motive here.
It's a fair question I'm sure you agree with.

Just like Ms. Boylen stated her concerns regarding the internet. Certainly you could see this....or are we all still waiting to *engage the brain* for the obvious.

I don't even know CBoylen.
I'd do the same.
No brainer there.

[ImmortalSynn]

Why are you being so mean. Let it go, and respect the wishes of the owner. She has made her point, and you have every right not to agree with her, but not the right to throw digs.
I'm at a loss at this point how to make it any more clear to you that I'm not "throwing digs" at anyone... so I'll just leave it at this.

[horserider12]

As someone who actually saw rox dene show in florida, all I could say is wow! I have never since seen one who gave you chills like she did as she went around the course. there are of course a lot of pictures from the chronicle from that time, horse of the year............

[hiddenlake]

...at the loss to the potential millions worldwide, who never got the chance to see anything of her, and even experience half of that feeling at all.

It's heartbreakingly selfish.


Oh come on, enough with the melodrama already.


I don't think I've ever seen so much hyperbole and contradiction packed into just a few sentences....oh wait, this is an election year.

I'll stand by what I said... but do know that it was meant only as an observation of the situation at hand, not as a personal slight to anyone.

Yeah, whatever. :rolleyes: But there is no "situation at hand." You just tried to make it into one.

[Tha Ridge]

does any one have any pictures of her? and CBoylen how old is she now.. i really know nothing about her other than the fact that people say oh that one reminds me of Rox Dene..

Chanda has a great album of her photos on Webshots - http://pets.webshots.com/album/96290157eKpaAw

[dcm]

CBoylen's horse. CBoylen's choice. Please respect that.

Chanda has been so nice over the years to share Rox Dene with us here on the board as much as she has. I think she has been rather generous. As one who never got to see Rox Dene go, I am happy to see what history has documented, and to appreciate that it exists.

ImmortalSynn - just the way you have said things here make you sound a bit like a bully who has not gotten their way. IMHO, it is selfish of you to demand that someone share their private video with you. You have no right to view the videos. Neither does anyone else.

[CBoylen]

What years did the mare show? CBoylen - Did you own and ride her when she was competing? How exciting to be able to give such an amazing horse their retirement. and CBoylen how old is she now
My mother bought her as a four year old, shortly after she jumped her first fence, and we have owned her since then. She showed from 1990-1996. I did not ride her. She was shown by Laura (Kent) Kraut as a pregreen horse, Bert Mutch for part of her first green year, and then Elizabeth Solter (Bross) for the remainder of her career.
She will be 23 next year.

[H/J Anonymous]

Just a few thoughts on this subject:

Not only are videos scrutinzed, but so are pictures.

While many will remember her name, it will be hard with no video to keep remembering her performance. Someone will replace her eventually as it happens with every equine athletes - ever the greats. I think that will happen sooner than later with no video to be found.

Memories only last so long especially when it is not you horse...also, I see breeding going on and I would think for the sake of keeping the breeding line alive a video would be something that would help for future sales as the mare is older....Videos showcase the great aspects of mare too.

People are judgemental and they always will be...by not offering video does not stop the judgement. By all means it is the owners choice and I would like to see a video as I have never seen her in person. Love the pics though! Video would be fun, but doesn't sound like it will happen.

Also, even though there are critical people - like all the comments on Popeye K - he seems to do just fine on his breeding and many flock to watch his rounds. A lot of times the controversy is good because it makes people take notice...

[ImmortalSynn]

ImmortalSynn - just the way you have said things here make you sound a bit like a bully who has not gotten their way. IMHO, it is selfish of you to demand that someone share their private video with you. You have no right to view the videos. Neither does anyone else.
Seriously, at this point... will some of you people chill out and read/think for a minute:

1) no one's made any "demands" of anything. That'd be ridiculous and have absolutely no bite.
2) I've accepted that the person doesn't want to share her horse's vids at the moment she stated she wouldn't. Her horse, her choice.
3) ....in light of that, why do some of you think repeating the same lines over and over again here, is therefore called for? It's not going to do much to drive home a point that someone made an hour ago.


Don't get me wrong, I mean, I can see some of you discussing this very rationally (props!), but otherwise it's like dealing with a room full of parrots. Sheesh.




Just a few thoughts on this subject:

Not only are videos scrutinzed, but so are pictures.

While many will remember her name, it will be hard with no video to keep remembering her performance. Someone will replace her eventually as it happens with every equine athletes - ever the greats. I think that will happen sooner than later with no video to be found.

Memories only last so long especially when it is not you horse...also, I see breeding going on and I would think for the sake of keeping the breeding line alive a video would be something that would help for future sales as the mare is older....Videos showcase the great aspects of mare too.

People are judgemental and they always will be...by not offering video does not stop the judgement. By all means it is the owners choice and I would like to see a video as I have never seen her in person. Love the pics though! Video would be fun, but doesn't sound like it will happen.

Also, even though there are critical people - like all the comments on Popeye K - he seems to do just fine on his breeding and many flock to watch his rounds. A lot of times the controversy is good because it makes people take notice...
Very well said. Thank you!



.

[H/J Anonymous]

CBoylen - thanks for the history! I had pieced some of it together and found she has such an impressive record. I looked years ago for a video too-- not so much to critique, just to see how fabulous she is. I love watching great horses because I admire the hunters so much. Each horse has their strongest points and by those pics I wouldn't imagine you could get a better jump. I would be curious to see her canter and flow around the course, but we can all wish :)

Thanks agian for the small history!

[Mr. Jig]

My mother bought her as a four year old, shortly after she jumped her first fence, and we have owned her since then. She showed from 1990-1996. I did not ride her. She was shown by Laura (Kent) Kraut as a pregreen horse, Bert Mutch for part of her first green year, and then Elizabeth Solter (Bross) for the remainder of her career.
She will be 23 next year.

Wow that is so cool. I remember seeing her go and just thinking man can that horse jump. It is so nice to hear that you had her her entire life and as much as I would like to see a video, I totally respect your decision and as so many said, it's your decision, your horse. I do love the pictures. I have an Art Deco horse that is out of an Aristos B mare and I always felt proud that he was akin to her blood lines. You definitely DO NOT need to subject yourself to the negativity that you can find on the boards. She has nothing to prove, now she has offspring to take on the next generation and for those others, oh well. I never saw George Morris ride as a junior but you don't see me calling him up to get a video. He obviously had good rounds to be where he is and that's enough said. CBoylen it's just nice to hear the horse is living out her late years loved and protected, I can only wish the same for my measely 3' hunter (who means the world to me) - it's all about perspective. Thanks for the pictures, that's enough for me! :D

[CraziiPonii]

My mother bought her as a four year old, shortly after she jumped her first fence, and we have owned her since then. She showed from 1990-1996. I did not ride her. She was shown by Laura (Kent) Kraut as a pregreen horse, Bert Mutch for part of her first green year, and then Elizabeth Solter (Bross) for the remainder of her career.
She will be 23 next year.

Thank you so much! I always love seeing pictures of her, and hearing her history. I hope she is doing well in her retirement.

[kateh]

All I can say is Popeye K x Rox Dene??? I've never seen Rox Dene, but you can bet I'll be watching for her baby!

[Dazednconfused]

Just a few thoughts on this subject:

Not only are videos scrutinzed, but so are pictures.

While many will remember her name, it will be hard with no video to keep remembering her performance. Someone will replace her eventually as it happens with every equine athletes - ever the greats. I think that will happen sooner than later with no video to be found.

Memories only last so long especially when it is not you horse...also, I see breeding going on and I would think for the sake of keeping the breeding line alive a video would be something that would help for future sales as the mare is older....Videos showcase the great aspects of mare too.

People are judgemental and they always will be...by not offering video does not stop the judgement. By all means it is the owners choice and I would like to see a video as I have never seen her in person. Love the pics though! Video would be fun, but doesn't sound like it will happen.

Also, even though there are critical people - like all the comments on Popeye K - he seems to do just fine on his breeding and many flock to watch his rounds. A lot of times the controversy is good because it makes people take notice...

I doubt any foal of Rox Dene's needs a video on youtube to be marketable :lol::lol::lol: That's probably the silliest thing I've ever heard.

[CBoylen]

Thanks Kateh, she'll start going to some shows to sightsee next spring probably :).

[MLP]

Wow - what a cute baby, I'm sure you're excited for her career to begin, thanks for posting the pictures!

[MLP]

I just looked at some more of your pictures, your horses all jump text book perfect, you definitely know how to pick them. Thanks again for sharing.

[H/J Anonymous]

I doubt any foal of Rox Dene's needs a video on youtube to be marketable :lol::lol::lol: That's probably the silliest thing I've ever heard.

Not necessarily to be marketable - bad choice of words on my part, but maybe to remind those of us who were not able to watch her show in person how great she is. The pics are nice, but doesn't portray the consistency I have heard this mare has in the ring.

I hope Cboylen keeps us posted on her from time to time! Cute pics of the babies too!!

[canyonoak]

Every once in a while, the BB lives up to its potential--and this thread is just one of those times.

"Popeye K x Rox Dene."

That is just...overwhelmingly right.
And I would just never have known, had I not been surfing on the BBs.

Wow!

Thanks to CBoylen for taking care of Rox Dene in the way all horsemen should strive to care for their partners.

[Bedazzle]

Was the baby born by surrogate? Or am I looking at the wrong pictures? :uhoh:

[CBoylen]

Yes, an embryo transfer. Poppy is her last foal, and I'm very pleased with her so far. Everyone that has seen her go has said how much she reminds them of Rox Dene, so I'm very excited. Or, you know, since it's a three year old, "cautiously optimistic" ;).

[bornfreenowexpensive]

My mother bought her as a four year old, shortly after she jumped her first fence, and we have owned her since then. She showed from 1990-1996. I did not ride her. She was shown by Laura (Kent) Kraut as a pregreen horse, Bert Mutch for part of her first green year, and then Elizabeth Solter (Bross) for the remainder of her career.
She will be 23 next year.


GAD...is she that old....ugh...that means I'm old too! I remember watching her go in FL in her prime. I'm not a hunter person....and even I thought she was way cool! Lovely mare. She was stabled in the barn next to us and I remember talking to her groom on one of our walks (I was taking care of another famous grey horse).....All I remember was she was a bit of an air fern....and liked her food (so it was a bit of work to keep her "trim")....but of course I could be remembering wrong! Boy she was lovely to watch jump.....

[Bedazzle]

[QUOTE=CBoylen;3622579]Yes, an embryo transfer. QUOTE]

Thats neat. :yes:

[pippy]

Just a few thoughts on this subject:

Not only are videos scrutinzed, but so are pictures.

While many will remember her name, it will be hard with no video to keep remembering her performance. Someone will replace her eventually as it happens with every equine athletes - ever the greats. I think that will happen sooner than later with no video to be found.

Memories only last so long especially when it is not you horse...also, I see breeding going on and I would think for the sake of keeping the breeding line alive a video would be something that would help for future sales as the mare is older....Videos showcase the great aspects of mare too.

People are judgemental and they always will be...by not offering video does not stop the judgement. By all means it is the owners choice and I would like to see a video as I have never seen her in person. Love the pics though! Video would be fun, but doesn't sound like it will happen.

Also, even though there are critical people - like all the comments on Popeye K - he seems to do just fine on his breeding and many flock to watch his rounds. A lot of times the controversy is good because it makes people take notice...

I seriously doubt anyone will stop remembering her. She has been retired since '96, and here we are talking about her. Also, IMO, she will never be replaced, as you put it. She was/is special. Horses like that come around once in a lifetime.

[WB Mom]

This has been an entertaining thread. I recently started riding again after many years off. I have no idea who Rox Dene is, so some of these posts are correct - there are folks in my shoes who know nothing of her. From the picture posted, she looks very nice.
It's interesting how some horses can evoke such strong emotions...

[SilverBalls]

I remember the first time I saw Rox Dene go. It was at St.Christopher's Horse Show when she was a 1st year horse. My jaw dropped as it did each and every time I saw her perform until her retirement. I have said this before, and I'll say it again.... Rox Dene in my opinion is the greatest show hunter of all time.
I understand Chanda's reasoning about not wanting to post a video. But, I will say that that mare was flawless, and in the end she will always be remembered by me as the best... even though she's a girl! :winkgrin:

[Equino]

My mother bought her as a four year old, shortly after she jumped her first fence, and we have owned her since then. She showed from 1990-1996. I did not ride her. She was shown by Laura (Kent) Kraut as a pregreen horse, Bert Mutch for part of her first green year, and then Elizabeth Solter (Bross) for the remainder of her career.
She will be 23 next year.

That is amazing. To buy a green prospect, take it all the way through the ranks and retire her yourself, wow, that is just a dream come true. How many foals has Rox Dene have for you? How many were ET? Just curious! What is she like as a pasture pet? She must be in heaven! Thank you for sharing.

[Melelio]

Wow, I barely remember her (lookswise-was she a plainish bay?) from the late 80s and had no idea at the time I was watching a legend in the making.

I just remember every show we taped at it got kinda 'old' to hear her name announced for every win ribbon :winkgrin: Hers and Mary Lisa Nicholson's in the Ammies :lol: We just wanted a bit of variety, ya know? ;):cool:

Did Rox Dene do the IHF shows? I could swear I remember hearing her name there.

Yeah, I'm old, too :lol:

[realst857]

I was one of the "fortunate" people that was able to watch this great mare several times. I will NEVER forget the years I was showing my amateur horse at indoors and could sit next to the rail at indoors and watch her trips. The first time I watched her in a regular class.......I got chills. Unbelievable!!!!!! I still get chills just thinking about it! Thanks for the memories!:)

[chukkerchild]

Yes, an embryo transfer. Poppy is her last foal, and I'm very pleased with her so far. Everyone that has seen her go has said how much she reminds them of Rox Dene, so I'm very excited. Or, you know, since it's a three year old, "cautiously optimistic" ;).

Please tell me her show name will be Pop Rox!! :yes::lol:

[Mayaty02]

Wow, I barely remember her (lookswise-was she a plainish bay?) from the late 80s and had no idea at the time I was watching a legend in the making.

I just remember every show we taped at it got kinda 'old' to hear her name announced for every win ribbon :winkgrin: Hers and Mary Lisa Nicholson's in the Ammies :lol: We just wanted a bit of variety, ya know? ;):cool:

Did Rox Dene do the IHF shows? I could swear I remember hearing her name there.

Yeah, I'm old, too :lol:

Rox Dene is a grey...not a bay

[Melelio]

See? LOL I just couldn't remember, We saw so many horses through the video viewfinder, all I remember is the name being called over and over again LOL

[WW_Queen]

If I was so interested, I would have called the farm directly to ask if you could come visit the mare and see a video. Putting a video on the web might be questionable but I'm sure many (but not all, of course) owners would entertain the notion of one visitor who admired the horse and wanted to feed it a carrot, perhaps see any pics or old vids the owner might have.

Provided the owner wasn't getting constant requests from people that would disrupt the farm/horse, I think if my horse was a retired superstar he would love to bask in someone's adoration (provided they had a treat!). :lol:

I am fairly sure I have seen pics in GM's books and many times in old issues of Practical Horseman. Try the printed route and see where you get.

[Paragon]

As someone who hasn't been around in the horse world all that long, I'm extremely sad that those like me aren't able to see footage of Rox Dene. We're told that she was a standard, but rely only on stories and snapshots. I want to have my breath taken away, too.

I respect the choice of her owners, but it bums me out nevertheless.

[MLP]

As someone who hasn't been around in the horse world all that long, I'm extremely sad that those like me aren't able to see footage of Rox Dene. We're told that she was a standard, but rely only on stories and snapshots. I want to have my breath taken away, too.

I respect the choice of her owners, but it bums me out nevertheless.

Except for all the years, you know way back when, when we didn't have facebook or youtube or any other forum to post videos on..... We just went on pictures... I think that it is a shame that this girl just can't be in peace. Her horse, her memories, her choice.

[Dirty Little Secret]

Love the name Pop Rox- so cute! Although Eyelet is good too! Surely she's got some more embryos....
Can't believe Rox Dene is 23! I remember as a child always seeing her name in the chronicle, practical horseman, etc. She was fabulous. The Boylen's should find my next horse ;-) They certainly do have an eye for the once-in-a-lifetimers!

[Foxtrot's]

Out of curiosity I went to allbreed pedigree query to see her pedigree and there is a nice little synopsis of this wonderful mare.

[J. Turner]

I have considered uploading video, due to the many requests. But after spending a good deal of time on the internet I am reluctant to do so. I don't think it's fair to the horse, who has nothing left to prove, to have her rounds minutely criticised by the public. That's what seems to happen online in those cases, as theorangeone points out, and I would be very upset.
Video also takes away something of the "special" factor from a trip, and I don't think you can get the same feeling that was always the most amazing part of Rox Dene's trips from taped footage. I would rather the people that were able to see her could remember that feeling of seeing her at her best.
Anyway, if movement is what you were interested in, her trot was never anything to write home about, but she was still at or near the top of most her hacks because there has never been, in my opinion anyway, a horse that has cantered better.

It would be so nice to have one for posterity. Kind of like having Abdullah and Touch of Class's jump off round from the Olympics. I understand your point, though.

[Paris]

that a hunter round of hers was televised during a broadcast of a grand prix (in florida I think). She was receiving some kind of award, and they showed one of her rounds as an example of a hunter, as opposed to a jumper.

I was not fortunate enough to see her in person, but I have kept that video tape of her round.

Pretty amazing.

[ponymama]

that i *love* the comment a 9 yr old added to one of cboylen's baby pictures of rox dene saying that she was very cute and when she got older maybe she could be in a show.

[LizzyM]

Was Rox Dene ever ridden by a junior??? Someone told me that she was at some point.

[CBoylen]

That is amazing. To buy a green prospect, take it all the way through the ranks and retire her yourself, wow, that is just a dream come true. How many foals has Rox Dene have for you? How many were ET? Just curious! What is she like as a pasture pet? She must be in heaven! Thank you for sharing.
My mother has had top show horses for a very long time (she had her first national horse show champion in 1957), and that's really the way she prefers things to work out :).
Rox Dene has had three foals that survived to adulthood, only the last one, Eyelet (Poppy), was by ET.
She lives at the farm of our friends the Minchins, in Southern Pines, so that my mother may see her. She doesn't live out full time, so her schedule hasn't changed too much in her retirement, and they take beautiful care of her.
Was Rox Dene ever ridden by a junior??? Someone told me that she was at some point.
Megan Johnstone showed her in the juniors in 1995 on an in-barn lease. At her fifth show though a too-long distance resulted in both Megan and Rox Dene hitting the ground. Megan broke her collarbone and was only able to make it back to show her once afterwards.
As someone who hasn't been around in the horse world all that long, I'm extremely sad that those like me aren't able to see footage of Rox Dene. We're told that she was a standard, but rely only on stories and snapshots. I want to have my breath taken away, too.

I am sorry, I know a lot of people feel that way. I have loaned out tapes in the past to the AHJF/WCHR for clinics, and as far as I know they still have them and may be able to make them available more often. I am very happy for people to view footage of the horse in that setting. It is just my prior experience with the internet that makes me reluctant to post footage online, where similar footage is often dissected and criticised by the uninformed.

[Paragon]

I totally understand, CBoylen. A few years ago, before I did a big opera program, I proudly posted some clips of my singing on YouTube. From singers, I got great feedback and some nice compliments. From non-singers, I was told how fat I looked. Guess which ones stuck with me? Such is life on the internet. ;)

So I content myself with absolutely phenomenal pictures!

[Equino]

My mother has had top show horses for a very long time (she had her first national horse show champion in 1957), and that's really the way she prefers things to work out :).
Rox Dene has had three foals that survived to adulthood, only the last one, Eyelet (Poppy), was by ET.
She lives at the farm of our friends the Minchins, in Southern Pines, so that my mother may see her. She doesn't live out full time, so her schedule hasn't changed too much in her retirement, and they take beautiful care of her.
Are all her babies family owned? I know you've posted you have high hopes for Poppy, but if you don't mind my asking-how did the others fare?

I am sorry, I know a lot of people feel that way. I have loaned out tapes in the past to the AHJF/WCHR for clinics, and as far as I know they still have them and may be able to make them available more often. I am very happy for people to view footage of the horse in that setting. It is just my prior experience with the internet that makes me reluctant to post footage online, where similar footage is often dissected and criticised by the uninformed.
You have no reason to ever apologize or explain. The selfish hunter fanatic wishes I could view footage of all the top hunters, and Rox Dene is no exception. I get so frusturated looking at pictures posters post thinking the horse represents a good example of a hunter. To me, Rox Dene is one of the best, a perfect example for what any hunter trainer or breeder should aim for. It's a shame that folks across the internet had to ruin it for people who genuinely appreciate quality, and for the educational purpose of furthering our sport.

[TrakGeorge]

[QUOTE=CBoylen;3624767

I am sorry, I know a lot of people feel that way. I have loaned out tapes in the past to the AHJF/WCHR for clinics, and as far as I know they still have them and may be able to make them available more often. I am very happy for people to view footage of the horse in that setting. It is just my prior experience with the internet that makes me reluctant to post footage online, where similar footage is often dissected and criticised by the uninformed.[/QUOTE]


As another who would love to see her go and understand your decision....

Could you give a video to someone to put on a restricted website (Making sure the video is coded so not to be copied) so only us COTHers would get a password and the come back saying OOOOOO and AHHHHH?

That way none of the "uninformed" would be able to.

BTW (Her babies are beautiful, I do hope you keep us all updated on them!)

[LetsChat]

CBoylen, Looking at your pictures, is Slate one of her babies, the jump is incredible too and since the horse is grey I thought it may be. What I think is interesting and I am not really knowledgable in breeding is that grey is so dominant. Most of the Popeye K horses I have seen have all the chrome, your's has some but the grey is more dominant. In any color, they are lovely and the jump on Slate looks very similar to Rox Dene or maybe you are just lucky that all your horses jump with their knees to their eyeballs and as you know, you can't beat it! I will definitely keep an eye and an ear out for you and your horses. They are all so cool!

[lauriep]

Some of the nastiest comments I have ever seen have been made by COTH members. I don't think that criteria would restrict it enough. And there are PLENTY of uninformed people on this board, too. The internet just isn't the place to protect yourself from unwanted criticisms.

[LetsChat]

Some of the nastiest comments I have ever seen have been made by COTH members. I don't think that criteria would restrict it enough. And there are PLENTY of uninformed people on this board, too. The internet just isn't the place to protect yourself from unwanted criticisms.

I have to agree go look at some of the other threads on here. What may be possible is to contact the USHJA or WCHR (if those are the right acronyms) and maybe have an on line clinic set up where the video can be used as a training tool as CBoylen said it already has and then those who are REALLY interested can pay their fee and either audit in person or have a live feed to it. But not "posted" somewhere, either you pay for the clinic and view it real time or you don't see it. I can understand how people are looking to educate themselves but I agree there are a lot of rotten apples in this bunch. I personally would love to take a clinic, with or without the video, to educate myself, I just don't know where and when these are held. I mean an understanding hunters and hunter breeding type clinic.

[Dune]

and in the end she will always be remembered by me as the best... even though she's a girl! :winkgrin:

I feel the need to correct you on one little point....."*especially* though she's a girl!". :winkgrin: Wonderful mares like this one are to be treasured! Lovely, lovely mare and I wish her a long, healthy life in full retirement. :yes:

[Tini Sea Soldier]

I have considered uploading video, due to the many requests. But after spending a good deal of time on the internet I am reluctant to do so. I don't think it's fair to the horse, who has nothing left to prove, to have her rounds minutely criticised by the public. That's what seems to happen online in those cases, as theorangeone points out, and I would be very upset.
Video also takes away something of the "special" factor from a trip, and I don't think you can get the same feeling that was always the most amazing part of Rox Dene's trips from taped footage. I would rather the people that were able to see her could remember that feeling of seeing her at her best.
Anyway, if movement is what you were interested in, her trot was never anything to write home about, but she was still at or near the top of most her hacks because there has never been, in my opinion anyway, a horse that has cantered better.

You have the world's best known and most memorable hunter. There are some of us that were just getting into the sport when she was the queen of the ring. In life, there will always be critics... there will be negative feedback... there will be nay-sayers. It is a fact. Posting a video of an exceptional animal for the next generation to learn from and aspire to ride something of similar caliber is a benefit, not a hindrance. By doing this, you are indeed a true "schoolmaster" as your status on the chronicle lists currently. I think you have a valid concern that people will judge... but they were doing it long before the internet was invented and they'll still be doing it long after it's passe.
A photo is an image that can be remembered, but doesn't hold the same adrenaline level... it doesn't show you how the rider effortlessly manuevered themselves down a challenging combination... video does. Fearing that she will be insulted should not be your concern... being forgotten as we all grow older and the younger kids who have never seen her and let's face it, don't read the books we read with the pictures in them, and rather surf the internet, is more of a valid reasoning.
Personally, I wanted a grey horse for YEARS bc of Rox Dene and Gem Twist (and BOY was I sorry once I realized the grooming that came along with that very color!). She is timeless... and there will always be people that will look to hold you down or think there's better (and hell! That's the American way)... but celebrating her and letting kids learn what a true champion is... should be more rewarding than any insult that could be thrown her way. She will be in good company, with the Olympians, and other champions that children pour over on youtube and other sites... just hoping to get a glimpse of what the guts and glory is all about... and how they, too, can get a piece of it! Amen.

[H/J Anonymous]

I have to agree go look at some of the other threads on here. What may be possible is to contact the USHJA or WCHR (if those are the right acronyms) and maybe have an on line clinic set up where the video can be used as a training tool as CBoylen said it already has and then those who are REALLY interested can pay their fee and either audit in person or have a live feed to it. But not "posted" somewhere, either you pay for the clinic and view it real time or you don't see it. I can understand how people are looking to educate themselves but I agree there are a lot of rotten apples in this bunch. I personally would love to take a clinic, with or without the video, to educate myself, I just don't know where and when these are held. I mean an understanding hunters and hunter breeding type clinic.

I would also be interested in this...I understand where CBoylen is coming from, it is just hard for those of us that never got the opportunity to see the mare show in person. I have heard it isn't just her jump that is incredible, but also her carriage and flow that creates the types of great rounds that she had.

I guess I am a little of the non-judegemental type, but more of the learning/wow factor that would interest me in watching her rounds....

Like to add, how great that CBoylen has had her all these years and continues to take care of her!

[TheOrangeOne]

Famous horse thing aside..How would you all like YOUR horses being ripped to shreds by the uninformed public? Can you imagine waking up to see people saying complete crap about your beloved retired horse day after day? I mean, she's a show horse, but she's also a pet to some degree. Why should the family have to subject themselves to that? I don't think they are obligated.

[LetsChat]

Famous horse thing aside..How would you all like YOUR horses being ripped to shreds by the uninformed public? Can you imagine waking up to see people saying complete crap about your beloved retired horse day after day? I mean, she's a show horse, but she's also a pet to some degree. Why should the family have to subject themselves to that? I don't think they are obligated.

I tend to agree also however, I do think that if people are really interested it would be cool if there were a clinic or training session that they could attend. This way it is a real time stream of it, if you attend you see it for your own mind to process and remember and if not, you don't. I definitely think it's risky to "post" anything, people can then modify, edit or whatever and it also removes some of the nostalgia for the horse if it is just broadcast for everyone to see. Still, if there ever is a hunter clinic or hunter breeding clinic and CBoylen allows them to use video I think that would be cool however total free streaming of videos I don't think is a good idea, negative commentary or not. Also, in this case I would say she definitely is a pet, they have had her from 4 and still own her at 23 - so out of 19 years - 6 were show years which means they kept her around for 13 other years, most likely because she was the beloved pet. If there ever is a clinic, please post the details and I KNOW I would sign up! Thanks!

[CAJumper]

Famous horse thing aside..How would you all like YOUR horses being ripped to shreds by the uninformed public? Can you imagine waking up to see people saying complete crap about your beloved retired horse day after day? I mean, she's a show horse, but she's also a pet to some degree. Why should the family have to subject themselves to that? I don't think they are obligated.

Completely agree. :yes:

[CBoylen]

Are all her babies family owned? I know you've posted you have high hopes for Poppy, but if you don't mind my asking-how did the others fare?
Poppy is definitely the one that, even from what little you can tell of a 3 year old just starting to jump, I think got closest to our breeding goals. She's much more the same type as Rox Dene, even physically, than the other two. We initially thought adding more WB to the mare, who is very substantial in body, would be the wrong approach. The first two were by a TB and unfortunately we lost a lot of the size and bone in the breeding. So we went the opposite direction with the last breeding and so far I am very pleased. :)
Rocky, the 1999 gelding, is owned by a junior in NC, and Roxy, the 2001 mare is owned by a lady in the northeast, although I am not sure if she is showing her.
CBoylen, Looking at your pictures, is Slate one of her babies, the jump is incredible too and since the horse is grey I thought it may be.
Thank you! But no, Slate is Touch of Magic by Magical out of a TB mare.
I'm just a big fan of the grey ones ;).
I have heard it isn't just her jump that is incredible, but also her carriage and flow that creates the types of great rounds that she had.

Yes, that was all a major part of it, as I said, I don't think there has been a horse with a better canter. But to me, the most amazing thing about Rox Dene wasn't just the fact that on any given day she could put in the winning round. It was that she was literally the entire package of a hunter. Model, hack, jump. No lunge line. Ever. Two divisions with a full show schedule for her entire career, and never a lame step. No joint injections. She did her job as well as any horse can do it and required basically nothing. That is an amazing animal.

[realst857]

Ever cross your mind to clone her? ................hmmmmmm
She is a once in a lifetime horse! Must have been a wonderful feeling to jump her!

[Seven-up]

Ever cross your mind to clone her? ................hmmmmmm
She is a once in a lifetime horse! Must have been a wonderful feeling to jump her!


That's an interesting thought!


Add me to the list of people who would love to see a video. I completely understand why CBoylen wouldn't want to, though. I do appreciate this thread, because I'm learning things about her that I didn't know. I was surprised to hear she showed in the 90's; I assumed it was earlier than that, considering what a legend she is. I also didn't know she was part TB.

I'd love to see her in action, just to see what a "real" hunter round looks like. :D I guess I'll have to be happy snooping around CBoylen's webshots albums.

[H/J Anonymous]

Yes, that was all a major part of it, as I said, I don't think there has been a horse with a better canter. But to me, the most amazing thing about Rox Dene wasn't just the fact that on any given day she could put in the winning round. It was that she was literally the entire package of a hunter. Model, hack, jump. No lunge line. Ever. Two divisions with a full show schedule for her entire career, and never a lame step. No joint injections. She did her job as well as any horse can do it and required basically nothing. That is an amazing animal.[/QUOTE]

Sorry for being so infatuated your horse!....it is a post like this that makes me wish I was more active in the hunters 10 years ago. That is just when I started, so I didn't understand her accomplishments at the time -- which is why I said I would be so interested in seeing more of her.

Anyway, I will know for future reference to pay more attention if anything does become available:) I guess I do not breed or am overly competitive, so it is hard for me to understand why people do post nasty, mean comments or why they are so critical.

[Dune]

Another thing to consider is that a video just cannot get across that extra something that a horse had, it takes a bit away, unfortunately.

[ktm2007]

Another thing to consider is that a video just cannot get across that extra something that a horse had, it takes a bit away, unfortunately.

I was going to say this also!

I am one of those people who never got to watch her go, but can only imagine the chills that I would have gotten. I have enjoyed the stories I have heard of her, and I guess my imagination will just have to piece together what a lovely hunter she was/is (the pictures help!).

Thanks, CBoylen, for always being so forthcoming with information regarding your lovely mare. This helps keep her legend alive! :)

[Sdhaurmsmom]

I have considered uploading video, due to the many requests. But after spending a good deal of time on the internet I am reluctant to do so. I don't think it's fair to the horse, who has nothing left to prove, to have her rounds minutely criticised by the public. That's what seems to happen online in those cases, as theorangeone points out, and I would be very upset.
Video also takes away something of the "special" factor from a trip, and I don't think you can get the same feeling that was always the most amazing part of Rox Dene's trips from taped footage. I would rather the people that were able to see her could remember that feeling of seeing her at her best.
Anyway, if movement is what you were interested in, her trot was never anything to write home about, but she was still at or near the top of most her hacks because there has never been, in my opinion anyway, a horse that has cantered better.

When you upload a video to Youtube, there is an option to not allow comments. Even if you make the video viewable to all the public at large, there is still an option to not allow comments. So if that's all that's bothering you, put your mind to rest.

[katie16]

When you upload a video to Youtube, there is an option to not allow comments. Even if you make the video viewable to all the public at large, there is still an option to not allow comments. So if that's all that's bothering you, put your mind to rest.

And you think that would stop people from watching it and posting comments in other locations, like the COTH BB for example? I don't.

I don't understand why this thread has gone on for multiple pages. The owner has expressed her opinion and wishes. Not sure why some people think the subject is open for debate? Let it go folks.

[Andrew]

I have considered uploading video, due to the many requests. But after spending a good deal of time on the internet I am reluctant to do so. I don't think it's fair to the horse, who has nothing left to prove, to have her rounds minutely criticised by the public. That's what seems to happen online in those cases, as theorangeone points out, and I would be very upset.
Video also takes away something of the "special" factor from a trip, and I don't think you can get the same feeling that was always the most amazing part of Rox Dene's trips from taped footage. I would rather the people that were able to see her could remember that feeling of seeing her at her best.
Anyway, if movement is what you were interested in, her trot was never anything to write home about, but she was still at or near the top of most her hacks because there has never been, in my opinion anyway, a horse that has cantered better.

Chandra,
Yes, they are your videos, your memories and your horse. But she was on public dispay at shows and was MAGNIFICANT... I'm sure there are many on her who have seen pixs or have not yet been born or not even into horese at the time. I think it a diservice as an owner of one of the top hunters in history not to share her mezmorizing rounds.

There is a lot of "garbage" out in the rings that shouldn't be. If you posting, youtubing , sharing Roxy would help EDUCATE and let people she what a hunter IS to be. I wouldn't sweat the small minds and uneducated picking her apart. I know you are bigger and stronger to let that really bother you...

Looking forward to refreshing my memory of her :-)) online

[Andrew]

Here's something to think about Chandra.....

How about making DVD's of Roxy selling them and proceeds go to IHF?

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Here's something to think about Chandra.....

How about making DVD's of Roxy selling them and proceeds go to IHF?


NOW that is a good idea....proceeds could be used for any worthy cause that Chandra decides. If someone could get a some footage of several of the greats...even better.

[VirginiaBred]

I was fortunate to see Rox Dene go and was blown away by her consistency.

A Horse Of A Lifetime.

[make x it x so]

Here's something to think about Chandra.....

How about making DVD's of Roxy selling them and proceeds go to IHF?

I would buy them!
And to whoever commented that this thread is going on too long, now it seems to be more of a thread reminiscing about this great mare, and a great learning tool for people like me, who were young children or otherwise uninvolved in H/J shows in the 90s.

[lauriep]

When you upload a video to Youtube, there is an option to not allow comments. Even if you make the video viewable to all the public at large, there is still an option to not allow comments. So if that's all that's bothering you, put your mind to rest.

So, then people would just link to it and comment somewhere else, like here.

She doesn't feel comfortable doing it, ok? Let it go!

[Andrew]

So, then people would just link to it and comment somewhere else, like here.

She doesn't feel comfortable doing it, ok? Let it go!

Laurie, I usually agree 99% of the time with you, on this I disagree....Chandra has braged and boasted about RD as I would do the same if she were mine and like I said, there's a lot of garbage in the hunters today and feel she's doing a diservice to the industry by NOT sharing. I'm sure there were many ripping RJ & KW &GM on their videos,but that didn't stop them... I gues then we can go to Lousie and ask her to do one on Gray Slipper then??

[Seven-up]

Add me to the list of those who would want to purchase a video, just in case that might sway your decision-making process...;)

[ImmortalSynn]

Chandra,
Yes, they are your videos, your memories and your horse. But she was on public dispay at shows and was MAGNIFICANT... I'm sure there are many on her who have seen pixs or have not yet been born or not even into horese at the time. I think it a diservice as an owner of one of the top hunters in history not to share her mezmorizing rounds.

There is a lot of "garbage" out in the rings that shouldn't be. If you posting, youtubing , sharing Roxy would help EDUCATE and let people she what a hunter IS to be. I wouldn't sweat the small minds and uneducated picking her apart. I know you are bigger and stronger to let that really bother you...

Looking forward to refreshing my memory of her :-)) online
Beautiful. Exactly the idea I tried to get across.


Here's something to think about Chandra.....
How about making DVD's of Roxy selling them and proceeds go to IHF?
Or the charity of her choice.

[hiddenlake]

Laurie, I usually agree 99% of the time with you, on this I disagree....Chandra has braged and boasted about RD

First of all, Andrew, it's Chanda. No "r." I don't know her but I know that much, and if you are going to try to push her into something, at least pay attention to her name. And I have never once seen her brag or boast about Rox Dene. She's actually seemed quite modest and has answered questions with very little fanfare. Why would she want to respond to someone who says such things about her?

Second, it is her business. If people can't imagine what a stunning hunter looks like without a video of Rox Dene, I feel sorry for them but the great majority of posters here can figure it out without footage. Sure it would be nice to see just for the experience, but it is what it is.

So, ImmortalSynn, I took the liberty of googling your user name. The results were quite interesting. Seems you enjoy posting videos. What's to stop you from openly sharing a video if Chand(no r)a were to post one? Seems to me it's just that sort of thing that she's trying to prevent.

[ImmortalSynn]

So, ImmortalSynn, I took the liberty of googling your user name. The results were quite interesting. Seems you enjoy posting videos. What's to stop you from openly sharing a video if Chand(no r)a were to post one?
...um, what, did you'd think you'd uncovered some nefarious plot or something, lol?

That's exactly what I'd want to do-- made no bones about that from post one.

[hiddenlake]

...um, what, did you'd think you'd uncovered some nefarious plot or something, lol?

Nope. Nor did I point out that you've been banned from another horse board.

Oops.

[ImmortalSynn]

Nope. Nor did I point out that you've been banned from another horse board.

Oops.
...indeed, for writing the phrase "you just said the most pointless sh!t ever uttered on a horse forum".

Ironic how well that that also applies to the implication in your above post. ;)

[pippy]

...um, what, did you'd think you'd uncovered some nefarious plot or something, lol?

That's exactly what I'd want to do-- made no bones about that from post one.

She DOESN'T want video posted. She made it very clear that her horse had nothing left to prove, and wants to keep her remembered as she was. Chanda wants what is best for Rox Dene...and I think that is the most self-less thing she can do. Who cares if others think she is being selfish. She is protecting her horse.

[Sithly]

She DOESN'T want video posted. She made it very clear that her horse had nothing left to prove, and wants to keep her remembered as she was. Chanda wants what is best for Rox Dene...and I think that is the most self-less thing she can do. Who cares if others think she is being selfish. She is protecting her horse.

Oh, does Rox Dene read COTH? :lol:

Regardless, I can certainly see why CBoylen wouldn't want to put up videos. She's been hounded enough as it is.

[ktm2007]

This is becoming comical....:winkgrin:

[RugBug]

Oi...can anyone seriousy question why Chanda wouldn't put videos up with how this thread had turned out?

Just a VERY small example of what I think Chanda is trying to avoid:

I have some video of the first hunter round to ever score 100 (Osczar at Cap Challenge). It's widely available (if you know where to get it). A friend's (paraphrased) response: 'How did that score 100? He had to do that one lead change?' That was from someone who wasn't even trying to be critical. She just had no idea that a clean land change and landing on the lead are both equally acceptable.

Chanda has always been very gracious in answering questions about Rox Dene. She's never come on here and bragged about her. She simply responds. She's shared Rocky and Roxy with those interested as well as Poppy. Gosh, I remember waiting with bated breath to see the first pictures of Popeye K x Rox Dene. If she doesn't want to open up Rox Dene to the unavoidable nastiness that posting video would usher in, so be it.

[BAC]

Oi...can anyone seriousy question why Chanda wouldn't put videos up with how this thread had turned out?

Exactly. Much as I would like to see Rox Dene I would make the same decision as Chanda did and for the same reasons. And she has never bragged about any of her horses, she is always very gracious in responding to anyone who asks about Rox Dene, Popeye K, Poppy, etc.

I wish the mods would close this thread down, its unbelievable how rude some people can be. :no:

[LetsChat]

She DOESN'T want video posted. She made it very clear that her horse had nothing left to prove, and wants to keep her remembered as she was. Chanda wants what is best for Rox Dene...and I think that is the most self-less thing she can do. Who cares if others think she is being selfish. She is protecting her horse.

This IS becoming comical. Who cares why she doesn't want the video posted, although from this thread you can sort of see why. It's her horse. Her mother didn't have any video to go by before buying the 4 yr old that would become Rox Dene, so honestly, if that is the ONLY way you will know what a good hunter round is, you ain't gonna be finding the next Rox Dene. Not to mention, all these free streaming horse shows, next time WATCH the Regulars at Cap Challenge or the National Horse show, pick your favorite and see how it fares against the judges and you can see if you have an eye for it. Really, Chanda has never had to brag about Rox Dene, her performances were enough said. Too bad if you don't like her choices, when you find, breed, train, show the NEXT amazing hunter than YOU can post videos of your horse. Until then, hang around at the gate of some big shows, read up on books that are published or videos that ARE released. It's more about seeing what's out there in the horse world than veiwing ONE video. Geez!!!

[LetsChat]

Oi...can anyone seriousy question why Chanda wouldn't put videos up with how this thread had turned out?

Just a VERY small example of what I think Chanda is trying to avoid:

I have some video of the first hunter round to ever score 100 (Osczar at Cap Challenge). It's widely available (if you know where to get it). A friend's (paraphrased) response: 'How did that score 100? He had to do that one lead change?' That was from someone who wasn't even trying to be critical. She just had no idea that a clean land change and landing on the lead are both equally acceptable.

Chanda has always been very gracious in answering questions about Rox Dene. She's never come on here and bragged about her. She simply responds. She's shared Rocky and Roxy with those interested as well as Poppy. Gosh, I remember waiting with bated breath to see the first pictures of Popeye K x Rox Dene. If she doesn't want to open up Rox Dene to the unavoidable nastiness that posting video would usher in, so be it.

I loved that horse, I was at the Cap Challenge that year! By the way her new horse is pretty nice too, my jaw dropped when I saw it trotting at Devon this year and the kicker, it didn't win the hack which means there are more out there with INCREDIBLE movement!

[drsg4me]

I am not a hunter rider by any means, however I did used to live almost next door to where Rox Dene is retired. I remember when she was bred to Loyal Pal the first time, it was quite the topic in Southern Pines. I used to make a point to hack past her field on a regular basis just to see her. The first time I saw her she was covered in dust....was just getting up from a nice roll, and even filthy dirty, about to pop with a baby anyday she was still a very special horse. She certianly has the air about her that you just know she is something special in any circumstance. Just wanted to add my two cents (which aren't even worth that!!) about my experience with this wonderful mare! I'm so glad to hear that she is still doing well and enjoying her retirement. Here's to many happy years for the special girl!

[MMorgan]

Wow, this is an interesting thread. I certainly see both points of view here, but somebody, somewhere, at some time will post a video of her--so you guys will have to argue with the fools who ultimately will make uneducated comments.

I myself videoed Rox Dene when she did the Working Hunters at the Newport Classic. She was magnificent and I can't imagine anyone finding fault with her. However, the internet continues to fascinate me--it seems to have a disinhibiting quality--people aren't cautious with their opinions and it seems to provide a huge stage for attention seekers. I am not speaking of this board in particular (but am talking about youtube) and other forums in general. (COTH is definitely my favorite forum--this is a very intelligent group IMO)

My screenname on youtube happens to be RoxDeneFan and I have been PM'd by several people who have asked if I would share my videos of her. The initial contact was made back in January and I had put it on my to do list--my videos are on VHS and in storage--so I haven't gotten around to it. On the other hand, I am strangely protective of those films, so maybe that's why I procrastinated downloading them:sadsmile: One such person was the OP, and my perception was that he had no motive other than to share amazing footage of an incredible horse. I seriously doubt that his intention was to create controversy or to open her up to criticism. In fact, I wrote back to him at a later time (after I read Chanda's reason for not posting her videos--this was a while ago on another thread) and he was very understanding. He never badgered me, argued with me, or anything else--he was respectful. So, please keep that in mind in future.

While the internet is incredible and I couldn't live without it at his point, there is something creepy in the voyeurism that it induces. The sweetest thing about Rox Dene (IMO) was that she was someone's pet. Although she was a celebrity, she was moreso a member of someone's family--I could tell. I was standing at the ingate next to her, not even realizing it was her, when she bumped my arm with her nose so that I would pet her. Then I looked up and saw Elizabeth Solter and said, "Is this Rox Dene"? in bewildered amazement. DUH. Greatness aside, the mare was a sweetheart and a nuzzler which made her all the more special in my opinion. She's probably the only celebrity I ever encountered that I was actually impressed to see.:winkgrin:

I definitely think it would be nice for a video to be produced--in a professional manner so that others can see her magic. Perhaps with actual professionals discussing her, like George Morris for example, in the style of the old Rodney Jenkins video that showcased Wintarra Ring and The Wizard. (The name of the video escapes me but I analyzed every frame of it 13 years ago;)).

So, while some people are clearly annoyed by this discussion, it has given me a lot to think about in terms of my own internal debate about posting the videos.

Margie

[LetsChat]

MM - that's a very interesting post and I was wondering for a while what would be the case if someone had just *happened* to get a video tape of her. I am just curious because of course the video is yours, since you took it and a horse show is a public place so if you ride your horse out in a public forum, there is a chance that someone will catch a video or picture of it. But still, I don't know if I think it would be right to do, the owner obviously doesn't want that, and although the footage is yours, you definitely know she is against it. I think using it in an educational way is the only thing to do but I would still not do it without the ok of the owners. Just a respect thing I guess.

[BAC]

MM, I feel the same way as LetsChat, since its your video you are free to do whatever you want with it but now that you know the owner's feelings about it I think you should respect that and keep the video to yourself.

I really enjoyed your memory of Rox Dene nuzzling you for a pat. How lucky you are to have both that experience and a video of her.

[MMorgan]

Strange, because before I ever read Chanda's post, I had a lot of ambivalence. It's nothing selfish as far as I know (I consider myself to be very self-refective); For me, it's definitely more complicated than that--it's a mixture of respecting someone's privacy, of respecting my own privacy, of being irritated by the caustic and careless manner in which everything is critiqued on line (are critical thinking skills taught anymore?), etc.

My point, is that there has to be someone else out there who caught her on tape--she was afterall beloved. So while I am not going to make them public, I think it's a matter of time before someone else who has a video, does. I also believe that right and wrong in this case is highly subjective--hence my own ambivalence. What about the people who didn't have the opportunity to see her go? To them, withholding the footage is wrong--and I can totally appreciate their perspective.

For that matter, I have footage of the AA's and the AO's from that show. One of my favorites was Sign of the Times. Will I post those on youtube? No, out of respect for the rider's privacy (not that there's anything to be ashamed of in any of their rounds).

Will I post my videos of Patty Stovel? Probably--she is afterall a professional and she's no stranger to being televised. At any rate, Patty would just laugh at any criticism--or say, "that's right."

[BAC]

My point, is that there has to be someone else out there who caught her on tape--she was afterall beloved. So while I am not going to make them public, I think it's a matter of time before someone else who has a video, does. I also believe that right and wrong in this case is highly subjective--hence my own ambivalence. What about the people who didn't have the opportunity to see her go? To them, withholding the footage is wrong--and I can totally appreciate their perspective.

I am one of those people who never saw her go and although I am sorry I missed the opportunity I can live with that. I grew up in an age when video was not available and I have wonderful memories of great horses and equally great riders (Snowbound & Bill Steinkraus, Cap & Gown and Gene Cunningham) that many others on this board will never see, its a relatively small disappointment in life. Despite internet and youtube I think everyone is entitled to their privacy but I'm sure I'm in the minority.

[Jumpster]

Why not ask Elizabeth Busch-Burke for some videos? She's very nice.

[VirginiaBred]

I really can't believe this is still going on!!!

Elaine Boylen, who owns the mare obviously doesn't want videos "out there" for the world to critique.

What's hard to understand about that?

[ImmortalSynn]

One such person was the OP, and my perception was that he had no motive other than to share amazing footage of an incredible horse. I seriously doubt that his intention was to create controversy or to open her up to criticism. In fact, I wrote back to him at a later time (after I read Chanda's reason for not posting her videos--this was a while ago on another thread) and he was very understanding. He never badgered me, argued with me, or anything else--he was respectful. So, please keep that in mind in future.
...thanks cher ;)

[J. Turner]

MM, I feel the same way as LetsChat, since its your video you are free to do whatever you want with it but now that you know the owner's feelings about it I think you should respect that and keep the video to yourself.

I really enjoyed your memory of Rox Dene nuzzling you for a pat. How lucky you are to have both that experience and a video of her.

I had the pleasure of interviewing Rodney Bross when I worked for Practical Horseman. It was at the Capital Challenge and he brought me into Rox Dene's stall and I got to "hang" with her and pat on her. It was very cool.

[Whisper]

...um, what, did you'd think you'd uncovered some nefarious plot or something, lol?

That's exactly what I'd want to do-- made no bones about that from post one.
You do realise that doing so would be a copyright violation (if you make a copy and share it, rather than just publicising a link to her video), right? That's illegal, though people don't tend to prosecute it as much on the Internet as in other media.

[LetsChat]

You do realise that doing so would be a copyright violation (if you make a copy and share it, rather than just publicising a link to her video), right? That's illegal, though people don't tend to prosecute it as much on the Internet as in other media.

Is it still copyright infringment if I was the person taking the video, as in MMorgan's case. I personally think that it is a violation of privacy but is it illegal if you were the one taking "home" video at a show where this mare "happened" to be showing. I don't think they could ban cameras or videos from a parent who wanted to watch their child but I think that there would HAVE to be some sort of action an owner could take if their horses video was published or posted without consent. I have no video of the mare but I am just asking a question? Just wondering what the actual law would be for that case.

[pippy]

Is it still copyright infringment if I was the person taking the video, as in MMorgan's case. I personally think that it is a violation of privacy but is it illegal if you were the one taking "home" video at a show where this mare "happened" to be showing. I don't think they could ban cameras or videos from a parent who wanted to watch their child but I think that there would HAVE to be some sort of action an owner could take if their horses video was published or posted without consent. I have no video of the mare but I am just asking a question? Just wondering what the actual law would be for that case.

As you put it earlier, this IS becoming comical.

[Plumcreek]

Well, I bought the short video of Gem Twist that his owner produced. I will keep it always and am glad that his owner made the effort.

[CBoylen]

Strange, because before I ever read Chanda's post, I had a lot of ambivalence. It's nothing selfish as far as I know (I consider myself to be very self-refective); For me, it's definitely more complicated than that--it's a mixture of respecting someone's privacy, of respecting my own privacy, of being irritated by the caustic and careless manner in which everything is critiqued on line (are critical thinking skills taught anymore?), etc.

MMorgan, your video is of course yours to use as you please. Thank you though for taking the time to consider your choice and how it would affect those involved. Whatever you ultimately choose to do, I do appreciate that.

I'm also enjoying hearing the personal experiences that people are sharing :).
Why not ask Elizabeth Busch-Burke for some videos? She's very nice.
Jumpster, I'm not sure why you would think Elizabeth Burke would have footage :confused:.

[Whisper]

LetsChat, no, it's not illegal to share video you took, though some venues can kick you out for taking pictures or video without permission. In most public venues, you don't need a "model release" (which I think usually only applies to videos or pictures which are produced commercially and sold, anyway, not sure about that).

ImmortalSyn wanted to make a copy of Chanda's video footage available to other people, which I interpreted as hosting it on his own site. Lots of people do that - put copyrighted pictures and video in their Photobucket or other Photo/Video sharing sites. The odds are that they won't get caught, but it *IS* illegal, and can result in prosecution or getting your account disabled if they complain.

[MMorgan]

Chanda, I loved your mare from the moment I saw her on the cover of Practical Horseman--as did many other people I'm sure. I hoped that I had made it clear that I decided not to put them on youtube because you had expressed your concerns. I know others are annoyed by this discussion, but if it never took place, how would anyone have known how you felt? Therefore, for me, the thread is not ridiculous.

I'd be more than happy to send you a copy of her rounds if you like. She was perfect!

Margie

[TrakGeorge]

Sadly the only memory I have of her is my my poor breyer model. My Rox Dene didn't hold up like the real one. I had to wait every 6 months for my aunt (aka "the breyer vet") to come and super glue her leg back together....

Those conformation breyers never really held up to my abuse. :no:

Now that I am older, they are holding on to the dust just fine :winkgrin:

[citydog]

CBoylen, you're such a class act. :yes:

[BLBGP]

I think some people need to work on their persuasive argument skills. ;)

But wow, what a great mare she was/is!

[ImmortalSynn]

You do realise that doing so would be a copyright violation
...well, yeah, were it copyright protected.

Curious though: why do you assume that to be the case? One way or the other.

[seeuatx]

Photos and videos are automatically copyrighted as property of the respective videographer or photographer. You cannot take their work without express permission, or it is considered copyright infringement.

ETA: I wanted to provide a reference to specific copyright info.

From Andrew D. Epstein, Esquire http://www.photolaw.net/faq.html

"Q. Who owns the copyright?

A. Generally, the person who creates a work is the owner of the copyright. Thus, independent artists, photographers and writers own the copyrights to their works. The only exceptions to this rule occur when a work is created by an employee as part of his or her job duties or when a work is created under a written ìwork-for-hireî agreement.
....
Q. How do I copyright my works?

A. A copyright originates at the moment a work is created. For a written work, the copyright comes into existence as the words are typed, printed, or saved to a computer disk. For a photograph, the copyright is created at the moment the image is developed. If a photograph is taken with a modern digital camera, the copyright originates at the time the image is saved on a computer disk or on a hard drive. As long as the work exists in tangible form or can be understood or reproduced with the aid of a machine, it is copyrighted."

[LetsChat]

Photos and videos are automatically copyrighted as property of the respective videographer or photographer. You cannot take their work without express permission, or it is considered copyright infringement.

ETA: I wanted to provide a reference to specific copyright info.

From Andrew D. Epstein, Esquire http://www.photolaw.net/faq.html

"Q. Who owns the copyright?

A. Generally, the person who creates a work is the owner of the copyright. Thus, independent artists, photographers and writers own the copyrights to their works. The only exceptions to this rule occur when a work is created by an employee as part of his or her job duties or when a work is created under a written ìwork-for-hireî agreement.
....
Q. How do I copyright my works?

A. A copyright originates at the moment a work is created. For a written work, the copyright comes into existence as the words are typed, printed, or saved to a computer disk. For a photograph, the copyright is created at the moment the image is developed. If a photograph is taken with a modern digital camera, the copyright originates at the time the image is saved on a computer disk or on a hard drive. As long as the work exists in tangible form or can be understood or reproduced with the aid of a machine, it is copyrighted."

Very interesting. Totally off topic but I recently wrote and illustrated 12 childrens books and I was told to do a "poor man's" copyright which basically you send yourself in a sealed envelope your work, that way you can prove it was your original. According to you, just having it on my pc is enough, still I sent the copy to myself, you never know.... people are crooked and they can try to steal from you so you have to have proof it is your work. The fact that they were about my pets probably helps too, but you never know! ;)

Sorry back to topic now..... :yes:

[ImmortalSynn]

As long as the work exists in tangible form or can be understood or reproduced with the aid of a machine, it is copyrighted."
Hmm, not so sure about that part, as several sources contradict it... not the least of which being some of the findings in the appeal to Kelly v. Arriba Soft Corp.

But why get so technical... were such a situation to develop, it could be just as 'simple' as claiming "Fair Use", with notice of intent to comply should documentation of copyright be produced.

Not exactly a situation I haven't dealt with, and overcome I might add, before ;)

[seeuatx]

Very interesting. Totally off topic but I recently wrote and illustrated 12 childrens books and I was told to do a "poor man's" copyright which basically you send yourself in a sealed envelope your work, that way you can prove it was your original. According to you, just having it on my pc is enough, still I sent the copy to myself, you never know.... people are crooked and they can try to steal from you so you have to have proof it is your work. The fact that they were about my pet probably helps too, but you never know!

I do some writing as well, and have received the same advice which can be important before you send off to an editor or agent... can't trust anyone these days. Basically what this lawyers site and others point to is that the words or images are copyrighted the minute they are produced. The reason we have both been advised to send ourselves a real copy is so that we have viable proof that we own the original and can bring that out if someone were to try to copy/paste our words.

[LetsChat]

Fair use is limited. I believe 3 minutes or 10% of video, whichever is less. 30 seconds or 10% of audio, whichever is less. And it's not really a rule.. just an understood agreement allowing people to use media for certain purposes.

Love this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJn_jC4FNDo

As far as copyright... you have a natural copyright when you create something in a form which is protected by copyright. No one is allowed to take it, but you can't get monetary compensation unless you've registered your copyright.

That was INGENIOUS! I LOVED IT, damn I wish I was THAT creative! :yes: