Stopping a weanlings bad habit?

[Samotis]

I need help you guys!

Just this week my 8 month old colt has decided to stop leading. As soon as we take him back in from the arena to go back to his stall, he stops dead in his tracks!

The main problem is that if you get after him (smack him in the bum with the lead rope to go forward) he gets pissed. He starts hopping and rears.

Yes I know, its naughty! Now he leads everywhere else fine and doesn't cop and attitude, except when we take him back to his stall.

What are some good ways to get him to knock this bad behavior off?

Right now I just have someone stand behind me and encourage while I walk him to his stall and then praise when he goes and gets into his stall.

He does get mad when you smack him, is this a normal baby reaction?

[VirginiaBred]

Just return to the rope behind his rump. He'll remember soon enough. Having the rope looped around his rump and you pulling it will remind him to go forward.
It happens with many of them.

[Daydream Believer]

Forget smacking him or pulling him and make him move his feet instead. Teach him to yield his hindquarters away from you like a turn on the forehand. If you need a crop in your hand at first to teach this, then use it. It should get so easy with practice that all you have to do is look at his hip with your shoulders square on him and he will move his butt away.

When/if after this much training/groundwork he still stops and balks, than make him move his HQ so that you are circling him around you....what is happening is that he is being forced to turn towards you or "follow" you by doing this. He doesn't understand the difference of following you in a circle or straight...he's just not winning anymore and you aren't beating on him to get him to move. So you spiral out of your circle and he will most of the time follow you. If he balks, go back to the circle and try again until it works. Do that a few times when he balks and he'll quit it...it's no fun...it's harder and he's not getting his way. You will always have this "correction" if you need it also.

Very handy NH technique and much easier than butt ropes and beating with whips. I find once they hit weanling size butt ropes are pretty useless and they need to learn to lead without them anyway.

[VirginiaBred]

I find once they hit weanling size butt ropes are pretty useless and they need to learn to lead without them anyway.

They really aren't "useless". The do the trick. I wouldn't have suggested it if they were "useless". It will get them past the stage, and they'll be leading again in no time.

[Samotis]

Usually when I tap him with the lead rope on his butt, he either "lunges" around me, or gets pissy and rears.

When he lunges around me, I do not discipline him, I wait for him to walk and then try to continue on to his stall. He just stops again.

He yeilds well to pressure and stops and turns when I ask him. He has had a lot of handling, this stubborness has just develope because he doesn't want to go back home!

I will try the butt rope. I think I still have a long lead rope somewhere.


Thanks! Keep the ideas coming.

So about his little temper, is this a normal reaction for a baby?

I try to put him out all day and keep him around other horses and put toys in his stall, I hope he just isn't bored and pissy. I know it is hard when they can't be out with other babies, its just the best I can do at this point.

He gets along with all the show geldings, so its not like he is getting beat up or alone!

[VirginiaBred]

I will try the butt rope. I think I still have a long lead rope somewhere.


Thanks! Keep the ideas coming.

So about his little temper, is this a normal reaction for a baby?

Yes, for some. He's trying his independence out on you. He'll move past this stage soon, I promise.

[Daydream Believer]

They really aren't "useless". The do the trick. I wouldn't have suggested it if they were "useless". It will get them past the stage, and they'll be leading again in no time.

Well, You don't have to be so testy! I'm sorry my opinion was different than yours but with a big strong stubborn weanling, I find them a waste of time and usually find myself (all 120 lbs of me) dragging the 400 lb weanling...which is very hard on me also. I find the method I suggested to work much better (as I have tried both) but each to his own! :) FYI...I work with lots of babies here also of many breeds and they aren't all little like my own. I have one that is about 14 hands now out of a Saddlebred.

To the OP, certainly try the butt rope if you want to but if he's rearing and being that bad, I'm not sure you really want to be that close to him if he's going to act up that much. His tantrum is normal...all babies will try and test you. The point is that you need to win and beating him with whips or smacking him with a lead rope is not all that productive...as you are finding out. Consider what I suggested. It works very well.

Good luck!

[Samotis]

Yes, dragging is out of the question. I have tried, he just puts his head to the ground and tries to lay down:lol:

He is a very large weanling. 14.1 and 750 pounds.

One thing that has been an issue is space. He wants to walk next to me. He doesn't like if I am to far away and if I try to get him to walk next to me he slows down so I am just in front of him. It is very annoying.

Daydream, I am trying to understand your concept, push his hindquarters away from me and then what? Ask him to step forward? I am not sure I understand.

[Daydream Believer]

Daydream, I am trying to understand your concept, push his hindquarters away from me and then what? Ask him to step forward? I am not sure I understand.

Let me see if I can do better. You want him to yield his HQ away from you..you should not have to physically push him if you teach him this...at first maybe you will but later it should be an automatic response from him...it's just "groundwork" to me and all my foals/horses learn to move from a light touch and do turns on the forehand, hindquarters and to back. Eventually anyway that is the plan and I suggest you spend some time doing this in a large stall or enclosed area first before you have the big confrontation over his refusal to move.

What you do is get him pivoting on his forehand moving his HQ away as you tell him to move himself OUT of your space. Be firm if you need to at first and use a crop to tap him on the hip. Use the least pressure it takes to get him to move his hip away from you...that might be a strong tap or a light touch...the more you do it the lighter you will become. He will turn left towards you as you do that to escape the pressure you are putting on him and "follow" you around. As he gets moving in this little circle smoothly (keep going around and around), you gradually expand the circle and spiral out of it and he very likely will continue to follow you as you do so. If not, you reengage him in the exercise and move him again and continue this tactic until the light bulb goes on and he follows you. Think of it kind of like dressage from the ground...you control the impulsion and and movement and it puts you back into control. Be persistent...some get it quickly and some take longer.

It is also hard for him to rear while he's yielding and turning and it keeps you from being in a direct confrontation over the refusal to move forward which is causing his dangerous tantrums. Rather you redirect his focus and outsmart him a bit. He will find it gets tedious fast to do this exercise and that it is much easier to lead nicely than turn in small circles. :)

I used this exercise also with mature breeding stallions who get too on the muscle or naughty and it works wonderfully no matter what the size or mass of the horse...you are not using brute strength at all but reengaging their brain by redirecting them from their misbehavior.

I hope that makes better sense. :)

[Samotis]

Ok, I understand what to do. I will try it tomorrow. He is a very smart baby, and sometimes I think that is his down fall.

I was bringing carrots with me on his walks and he will follow when he knows I have carrots.

This can't be a good way to do this though. (in the long run it could cause problems)

I will try the HQ thing and butt rope and see what he prefers. I just want him to stop the rearing thing. You can actually see a change in his face, he really does get mad!

[amdfarm]

I use DB's method also. Just used it last week on a stubborn yearling that seemed to forget what forward meant. I positioned myself near his shoulder and stared at his haunches w/ the end of the lead rope swinging. When he didn't move he got popped w/ the end of the rope and was praised for moving. It took a couple of times, and I went both directions since it's something he does know, but apparently forgot all about that also, just to remind him. He was praised and remembered what forward meant.

What was funny is that I only wanted him to walk up a couple of steps, he'd walked everywhere else I'd asked him to w/out a fuss. Oh babies. They can be so fun and frustrating at the same time.

Good luck w/ the big man.

[Grande Isle Farm]

I also agree with Daydream Believer's approach of "yeilding the hindquarters". I have 5 foals here between the ages of 4-6 months old. We practice this in their stalls when they are very young, and by the time the are leading.....if there is any resistance at all, then we yeild their hindquarters, get them moving at the least amount of "touch" or "pressure".

I had the same situation happen to me today....We had a horrific amount of rain. My foals have not seen puddles of water before. Today, in order to get them to their field, from the barn, they needed to "wade" through some large puddles of water. Each and everyone of them planted their feet, and threatened to rear. Instead of allowing that reaction, I just moved their hindquarters until their feet became "unglued" and once they began moving again.....they would lead. Ground work is so important and any age!

Good luck with all the tips that have been given to you. I'm sure you will find one that works.....Gotta love them colts!;)

[seramisu]

Another vote for DDB's method... I learned this from a Clinton Anderson-style trainer and it is the most useful tool. Yielding their hindquarters (essentially turn on the forehand) is work for them and so you can use it as a form of punishment without having to yell, hit, or even be too close to them if they're rearing/bucking/being dangerous. I learned this when my then 2yo was coming off 6 months stall rest and was ready to explode at every moment. As soon as her attention came off me we'd do a circle or two til she was focused again. If she got to rearing and striking (her favorite form of defiance) I could stand at the end of the leadrope out of harms way and look pointedly at her rear end - as soon as she dropped to the ground she'd circle. I used it later when she was being a brat for the farrier - when she wouldn't stand still I'd have her circle once or twice til she learned it was less work to just stand and let him work. Now that she's under saddle I use it when she balks going on trail rides, or when she tries to walk out from under me when I mount. It only takes one circle and she understands that she's doing something wrong and fixes it.

It takes a little while to teach the behavior but once they understand it you have a tool you can use for life, no matter how big the horse gets. I think it is priceless to have a form of punishment that doesn't involve getting physical, or even angry. For best results, keep your temper even and cool and the horse will do the same while calmly learning that it's less work to do what you ask than to circle.

[Samotis]

Well I was all ready to use these methods and of course he was an angel today! Go figure!

I think what did it was I had a spray bottle with me. He has started to nip a little and want to eat the lead rope when we lead. So I just spray him with a little water on the nose. He was so dumfounded about what was hitting him in the nose that he just kept walking.:lol:

That spray bottle does the trick!

I have the methods in my mind, so he will for sure be getting some lessons this coming week!

[TrueColours]

Arent babies just SO much fun?! :lol:

Yeah - perfectly normal and sometimes they try it once and sometimes they try you on a few times a month for several months running until they outgrow the hissy fits ...

When I am alone and lead the mare and foal out together, the filly always comes out of the stall first and through the barn door first and the dam follows. Today my daughter was helping and she led the dam out first instead. Well - you'd think the world had come to an end as she knew it. She was thoroughly pissed that we had changed the order of things today and charged out of the stall, started running sideways and then backwards and was rearing and leaping off to the side and the only way she WOULD go forward was to gallop.

Uh - no way Jose ... ;)

So - my daughter held the dam and we enjoyed a little "schooling" session where she had to whoa, and stand and turn around and walk back to the barn and then back towards paddock once again and the only time she was permitted to walk forwards once again was when she acted like a lady and not a hellion

Its definately not as easy today as it was 2-4 months ago when she weighed a whole lot less but she does know in 100% of the cases that she cannot get away with it and however long it takes I do end up winning the battles

I swear at times I feel like getting a donkey and hitching the babies up to them to teach them to lead 100% of the time! :)

[Samotis]

The donkey isn't such a bad idea!

I think alot of my little guys bad behaviours come from not having a buddy to discipline him.

My friend just rescued a mini donkey. hmmmmm;)

[horserider12]

does he not get turned out with someone? I had done the whole natural horsemanship thing with my colt who is now two and a half,. He recently started getting very pushy and was ignoring all the aids. I called a natural horsemanship guy around here who wanted $150 an hour to work with him. So, not wanting to pay that I started thinking.........he's a colt so he's been turned out alone since he started getting rough with the ponies at around 2 years. In the wild and of course in europe the other babies would keep him in line so I picked one of my horses that I knew wouldn't take his crap but wouldn't be scared of him and probably wouldnt do more than necessary. Yes, it is taking a chance but..........Well he only had to turn his hindquarters on him a few times before he learned to keep his distance, and kicked him twice when he bit him...........well , colt is now an angel to lead, not crowding me and his mouth seems to have permanently closed up

[Char]

Sorry, but it sounds like your baby is throwing temper-tantraums and you're helping him to do so.

I've always had very good luck with a driving whip or a lunge whip. I hold the whip in my left hand just like I would a riding crop. When they stop, I give the signal to move forward, they don't move, I flick them in the hiney with the whip. I never turn around, I never change direction. I don't even look to see exactly where the end of the whip is landing. It works, they generally don't get pissy, and usually you get forward motion. It does surprize them, so be ready for a little jump forward.

As far as the rearing and getting pissy, I'd have a serious "Come to Jesus" about that one. Quite honestly, I'd knock his ass down if he reared up on me. It'll probably only take 1 time or so for him to get that message, and it's much easier to teach this lesson now than when he's 17hh and 1400 lbs.

[Tornado Run Farm]

I also use Daydrm Believer's method -- make him yield the hindquarters. (It's also the method alot of western horsemen use - Chris Cox, etc.) I had a weanling last year who was very opinionated, too -- rearing, jumping, pushing her shoulder into me... (I'm 5'3 on a good day.) I used this method every time she acted up - made her work in both directions - just a few minutes (didn't lunge.) Once she was listening, I started off again. If she acted up again, we did our dance again. Within a very short time, she was the BEST on the lead, and others even complimented how well she lead for a weanling.

Something else I did was lead her around while I did my barn chores. If I needed to take hay out, I took her along. If I needed to fill water, she and I would walk down the aisle together. Very soon she learned to be patient and just followed me everywhere -- in her own space. Today as a yearling, she's so patient she's the last one to go out and will stand in the barn by herself and just wait.

[Grande Isle Farm]

Something else I did was lead her around while I did my barn chores. If I needed to take hay out, I took her along. If I needed to fill water, she and I would walk down the aisle together. Very soon she learned to be patient and just followed me everywhere -- in her own space. Today as a yearling, she's so patient she's the last one to go out and will stand in the barn by herself and just wait.

What an amazing idea....So simple, but yet....DUH!!! why didn't I think of that!!!!

Thanks for that suggestion.....I'm going to do that with each and every one of my 5 foals on a daily rotation!!! What a SUPER idea!!! THANKS!!!!!

[cac182]

I think what did it was I had a spray bottle with me.

Having your horse associate a spray bottle with punishment may create problems later (for example if you want to apply fly spray or something) … hopefully not. I agree with DDB especially with any rearing…can’t rear when HQ moving or yielding away.

[Tornado Run Farm]

What an amazing idea....So simple, but yet....DUH!!! why didn't I think of that!!!!

Thanks for that suggestion.....I'm going to do that with each and every one of my 5 foals on a daily rotation!!! What a SUPER idea!!! THANKS!!!!!

I’m just going to say this for the less than well experienced horse people and the ones that didn’t recognize that I’M the donkey mentioned above (for lack of another word ;)). I’m sorry if I made it sound TOO simple or casual – it’s not. It’s training, and like any training requires forethought. I always planned what I could do SAFELY with a baby in tow. I never had anything in my hand or under my arm that couldn’t be dropped in a split second, and I never had anything in my hand or under my arm that once dropped could be in anyway dangerous – to them or me. It also requires a LOT of extra time and awareness, and as I said before -- planning.

You’re teaching them to lead, yes, but you’re also “sacking out” in small ways every day. Eventually they learn to trust and be patient– but I DEFINTELY wouldn’t drag a hose behind a baby on day one! And if they get too worried or over-react to a situation, STOP. Retreat to an area where they’re comfortable and do the haunch yield until they’re refocused, and do something else they don’t mind.

I just like to do these things with my youngsters now – it builds their confidence and the discipline makes them better citizens. I’ve learned the hard way, there’s nothing more dangerous than an undisciplined or spooky horse, and early groundwork is invaluable for later on. All it boils down to is effective handling – and I know everybody has their own way.

[Grande Isle Farm]

Yes...Obviously one has to be very careful not to put themselves or the young horses in a dangerous position. I think common sense is the key. ;)

[Samotis]

Today I took Ace out with me to clean poop in the arena. After trying to jump into the bucket a few times, it obviously wasn't working!

I finished a couple of scoop and was going to take him back in. Well he jumped up on the grass burm we have and leaped off! So I had to let go of the lead rope and he cantered around for a while and then just stopped and looked at me. Little turd.:no:

So I calmy put the bucket away, grabbed my spray bottle and on to lesson number 2!

I walked him all around the arena over poles up the burm, and everytime he tried to stop or nip I sprayed him with the water on the nose!

It worked! I finally got it! He is so confused about the water, he just starts walking! Love it!

He has the haunches thing down, but that won't make him walk forward, water does!

Thanks for all the tips. I am sure he will get over the sprayer in a few weeks and I will be back for more advice!

Another question, how do you teach them to jog for the hunter breeding without trying to run you over?