Agressive mare

[sketcher]

I have a mare who I thought up until now was just aggressive around food. She isn't awful but definitely food motivated and I just feel the need to be careful about feeding her with my filly - meaning that I have never quite trusted her enough to walk out into the paddock with an armload of hay and definietly never walk out to dump the grain. The person who had her before me says that she was never agressive around food until put into a pasture situation and then had to fight for it.

Recently, I've seen her behave quite agressively towards a friends gelding. I went over a friends house to ride (the mare lives across the street) and mare acted as though she was coming into heat which would be no big deal except that she squealed then spun around to try and double barrel the gelding through his paddock fence. I gave her a pop with her lead rope and a growl and when she didn't listen I smacked her in the chest with the end of the lead rope (all of this within 2-3 seconds). When I smacked her (it wasn't hard or abusive, more for the noise effect to get her attention) she squealed again, reared and struck at me whihc was followed by a serious 'come to jesus' meeting between the two of us. Her behaviour felt very stallionish - I would never smack a stallion on the chest but didn't think twice about it with the mare.

A while later we were saddling up in the paddock and she made a serious attempt to double barrel the gelding again and although we were what I thought was far enough apart she managed to back up towards him as she was kicking, making it a hairy situation for a few minutes. I really had to work to keep her from cornering him. We went on a trail ride and I had to be very careful to keep my friends poor little 13 hand 23 y.o. paso fino sweetheart of a gelding in front of us and not to close at that since if she was able to get up close to him she would start the squealing again and I didn't trust that she wouldn't go after him while I was on him. I've never ridden her with another horse so don't know if this behaviour would be repeated with others or of it is just males ect...

I have only had this mare at my house since last February and have not witnessed serious agression but just had a gut instinct to be careful with her. I moved her about a month ago and now she is stabled alone. She doesn't seem to mind being alone and gets lots of attention and excersize... I don't think her behaviour has changed since moving her I just think I haven't been able to observe her in different situations to know what she is really like as my filly is very easy going and submissive (and female).

I can't decide if it's a behavioural/respect issue or hormonal. I would think if it was hormonal then she wouldn't be so weird around food. I haven't had any other issues with her manners - she has good barn manners and is respectful on the ground at other times. She isn't pushy and not agressive or bitchy at all with people. It seemed like she was in heat alot this year but not doing any breeding means I really didn't pay close attention.

Does anyone have an opinion? Her behaviour seems predictable - it's not like it comes in waves. She is always serious about her food and and perceived interference and I have a sneaking hunch she will alwys react to this gelding in this manner although it has been a week or two so I'm going to go get her and reintroduce her and see what happens this weekend.

[BornToRide]

First I would make diet changes and take away anything that's high in sugars and starches, feed good quality grass hay only, as much as needed. Then add one thing at at time back in to see if that's a factor. A diet high in NSCs can make horses more agressive.

In addition, this mare could also have trouble with polycystic ovarian syndrome, making her more agressive. If the diet doesn't make a big difference, I would explore that next.

[hollyhorse2000]

I agree with the previous poster. It's too dangerous of a situation to ignore. A repro exam is in order, with perhaps an experiment with Regumate . . .

[daisyduke]

My mare has the same behavior as you describe. She does not have an ovarian cyst as I have had her ultrasounded. She is always apha mare and can be quite aggressive with other horses so I have to be selective when putting her with pasture mates. If it is around feeding time, she has to be separated or she will chase the others around. We've all adapted to her and the other horses know when to be wary of her.

The difference with my mare is as soon as soon as she is tacked up she behaves 100%. I can ride her with others and have their noses right up her butt and she will not act out. She can be tied next to any horse and hauled with any horse and she will behave. She only exhibits her aggressive behavior when loose and has never, ever, in the 8 years I've owned her, acted aggressive towards me.

[sublimequine]

My mare has the same behavior as you describe. She does not have an ovarian cyst as I have had her ultrasounded. She is always apha mare and can be quite aggressive with other horses so I have to be selective when putting her with pasture mates. If it is around feeding time, she has to be separated or she will chase the others around. We've all adapted to her and the other horses know when to be wary of her.

The difference with my mare is as soon as soon as she is tacked up she behaves 100%. I can ride her with others and have their noses right up her butt and she will not act out. She can be tied next to any horse and hauled with any horse and she will behave. She only exhibits her aggressive behavior when loose and has never, ever, in the 8 years I've owned her, acted aggressive towards me.

THIS is the difference between having a horse that respects you and having one that doesn't. Yours and OP's horse sound almost identical, but as you mentioned, your mare instantly shapes up once being worked and handled. She doesn't have to act as alpha mare then, because she knows when you're around, YOU'RE alpha.

OP; while I wouldn't rule out medical causes, I honestly think it sounds more like a disrespectful, overbearing alpha mare to me. Two things REALLY stuck out to me. One, you won't go INTO the pasture with hay or grain?! Am I reading that right? Oh no. No way Jose! You should be able to go out there and do a mexican hat dance around a mountain of grain if you want, without the mare even taking a step towards you, if she knows her place.

Also, the response to her double barreling at a 23 year old horse was a growl and a pop on the lead? Really?? That's my response for my mare trying to steal a mouthful of hay off the ground or something. Double barreling at another horse?! Let's back up across the entire pasture with me hollering and flailing my arms to look big and intimidating instead. :lol:

Just my opinion and take on the situation. I don't think that mare acknowledges you as the boss over her, and until you establish that very clearly, things probably won't improve.

[goeslikestink]

high sugary foods and good grass plus good quality hay can amke a horse be pushy over fod or anything else
try taking her of all grian for 2 weeks-- and just feed ab llib hay
as it will take long to get out of her system-- i bet she will calm down and then slowly introduce a cool mix or non heating feedstuffs
as in little meal if she behaves and not enough energy to do stuff with try adding a little more
if she reverts then ditch then more and do the less

[sketcher]

She's currently on Carb Guard and first cutting grass hay. Is there something in Carb Guard to be concerned about?

I have a call into the vet in order to schedule a repro exam. Then we'll deal with the behavioral stuff.

[Sanity Rules]

First I would make diet changes and take away anything that's high in sugars and starches, feed good quality grass hay only, as much as needed. Then add one thing at at time back in to see if that's a factor. A diet high in NSCs can make horses more agressive.

In addition, this mare could also have trouble with polycystic ovarian syndrome, making her more agressive. If the diet doesn't make a big difference, I would explore that next.

Agree wholeheartedly. I had a mare the same way. She turned out to be polycystic. Not something to put off diagnosing, by any means. :(

[Caitlynsmom]

My mare just had her ovary removed along with a huge granulosa cell tumor (her 2nd)
She was acting like a stallion.

[sketcher]

Does anyone know, would funky ovaries cause other issues? This mare is a bit bratty about having her hind feet done. At first I thought she was just pushing her limits but the last time I started wondering if she was bothered by something. She is great for her front feet. I have no problem cleaning out her hind feet of grooming her in any other way. She is generally very well behaved in the barn. Just another thing that doesn't match behavior wise.

Also, she always holds her tail slightly off to one side. The same side. All the time. Just a little. I always thought it was just an oddity but now that I'm thinking of ovaries I'm wondering if they can cause other physical discomforts.

When I got her she was supposedly recovering from an overdosing of selenium, given with vitamin E for Vit E deficiency. I could see the grooves in her hooves from when the selenium had been stopped 6-8 months before. Supposedly she has wasted away on the selenium and as I understand it, this was also when she was out to pasture having to fight for her food. I'm not sure what really went on with regards to this mare.

[BornToRide]

Absolutely. Ovarian issues can also cause a tight back or some other form of back discomfort and the reason why she may react to having her legs raised.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

I have a mare like this. She is alright to be around but food into the equation and everything changes. I always describe her as being very serious about her food. If she is fed in a pasture situation I usually try to have it be only one other horse otherwise there is a lot of running around and b.s. She always gets fed first away from the others. I was concerned what she would do this with her foals but she was pretty normal as far as that goes. She let her foal eat out of her bucket when it was very young and then as the foal got a little older she would push it off. So, I just put out food separately for the mare and the foal, at some distance.

I've never had her checked for cysts but she has been u/s quite often since she is a breeding mare and they have never seen a cyst. I think her issues really are just about food. And since she is regularly fed in the paddock she assumes food will be involved whenever you go into the paddock. Really, the other horses are like that too (thinking food is involved when I go into the pasture) but she is just more ridiculous about it. By her behavior I wonder if she really had to fight for her kibble previously or went without enough to eat for some period of time. Otherwise she is perfectly fine in the pasture. And yes, she is an alpha mare. Her only issue that I know of is low progesterone that requires supplementation for the first 40 days of pregnancy. Not sure if the low progesterone would be effecting her behavior on a day to day basis. As a side note, her foals are very sweet and generally in the middle of the heirarchy. They also do NOT get aggressive about feed. Oldest one is 2 years old gets fed in the paddock with one other buddy. I feed them in separate buckets but they still eat together out of the same bucket...empty one bucket and then move on to the next one. No fighting, ear pinning, etc.

[sketcher]

The behavior around food bothers me less then the agressive behavior towards another horse while being handled. I just mentioned thew food because that was the only other time I had seen her act the slightest bit agressive.

[MSP]

Does anyone know, would funky ovaries cause other issues? This mare is a bit bratty about having her hind feet done. At first I thought she was just pushing her limits but the last time I started wondering if she was bothered by something. She is great for her front feet. I have no problem cleaning out her hind feet of grooming her in any other way. She is generally very well behaved in the barn. Just another thing that doesn't match behavior wise.

Also, she always holds her tail slightly off to one side. The same side. All the time. Just a little. I always thought it was just an oddity but now that I'm thinking of ovaries I'm wondering if they can cause other physical discomforts.

When I got her she was supposedly recovering from an overdosing of selenium, given with vitamin E for Vit E deficiency. I could see the grooves in her hooves from when the selenium had been stopped 6-8 months before. Supposedly she has wasted away on the selenium and as I understand it, this was also when she was out to pasture having to fight for her food. I'm not sure what really went on with regards to this mare.

My mare is very much like that. She consistently gives myself and the farrier a hard time about her hind feet but just the first time you ask her for it. Once reprimanded she cooperates. She kicks out if you touch her belly in just the right spot. And will try to bite if you touch the right spot on the front of her body. She is generally crabby and often has her ears pinned. She holds her tail to one side a lot of the time also.

She is prone to obesity and definitely a potential IR horse. I have take her off grain and just use alfalfa to give her supplements. I am giving her Remission and she seems to be doing well. I have noticed that she seems to get more sensitive around the time she is due for worming and many times seems better after.

My mare is a foundation QH and very cowy with attitude. I would not wonder around the pasture with her when she was younger because she loved to chase. Now she is much more respectful from training but she will still herd me where she wants me to go.

These horses are an enigma. I think you have to consider every thing as part of the equation. Illness, hormones, diet and training could all play a part. My mare is very sensitive. She has delicate skin and very sensitive to touch.

The part of the equation that keeps her in my good graces is once she is tacked up she is the bomb! If she even thinks about getting aggressive with another horse all I need do is say no. She has a solid work ethic and will do the job she is asked.

Food has a huge part of the equation from what I have observed. IF she eats a bit too much or perhaps the grass is too rich or something about the hay isn't right I will know it. She bloats and gets like a mild case of colic. It really is almost too complex to make sense out of.

I just take it one day at a time and try to observe and make notes. I hope some day I can get it figured out. A thorough once over by a vet with proper equipment at a clinic is probably in order but where to start?

Good luck with yours!

[BornToRide]

There is an established link in humans between IR and POS. The risk of developing POS rises in Syndrome x-individuals. Mares may be similarly affected!

One of the major biochemical features of polycystic ovary syndrome is insulin resistance accompanied by compensatory hyperinsulinemia (elevated fasting blood insulin levels). There is increasing data that hyperinsulinemia produces the hyperandrogenism of polycystic ovary syndrome by increasing ovarian androgen production, particularly testosterone and by decreasing the serum sex hormone binding globulin concentration. The high levels of androgenic hormones interfere with the pituitary ovarian axis, leading to increased LH levels, anovulation, amenorrhea, recurrent pregnancy loss, and infertility. Hyperinsulinemia has also been associated high blood pressure and increased clot formation and appears to be a major risk factor for the development of heart disease, stroke and type II diabetes.

http://www.ivf.com/pcostreat.html
http://edrv.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/18/6/774

[katarine]

Food aggression toward people: Sometimes it's a respect issue sometimes there's a history there that adds a little layer of yeah, butt...I would carry a lunge whip with me so I could feed in peace if need be. I'm not afraid of laying it on one, hard, at the moment they bypass a goodly warning shake of the lash and warning growl.

Aggression toward other horses when loose: dominant personality that's also insecure. My absolute least favorite type of personality in a horse, FWIW. Pushy but pissy toward others. Doesn't settle into leadership role, feels need to henpeck, herd, harass, act like an ass too much. Dominant secure types are just in charge and need only wrinkle a nostril to get the dudes to back off. I'd keep her separate if only to avoid the harrassment of the other horses.

Aggression toward other horses, and people...in hand or u/s: she's displaying dom/insecure again AND being disrespectful. If you can stay ahead of her and keep those feet moving or ask her to work work work when she does this mess...you can teach her to listen to you more for leadership. She MAY have a physical issue and I'd certainly spend the $ to find out if you intend to ride with others. A horse that will work this hard at being ugly needs a chance to prove they 'can't help it' ...fix that...then work on teaching her to really look to you for leadership and direction. Punitive measures with her are going to get you hurt. Once the medical is sorted I'd be looking for some local hands on guidance from a good sort to help you see what she's up to. A horse that will strike and move aggressively at their handler needs a smart, smart touch...not something one can gather off a BB, IMO.

PS yes- I'd remove ALL feed and supplements except hay, salt, free choice minerals. Then re-add one every 2 weeks or so, see how that goes.