New poll - Would you support a Breeder's organization?

[Fairview Horse Center]

Rather than a registry, I would like to see a North American Warmblood and Sport Horse Breeder's Association. I would like to see this organization be made up of individual members, not registries. I would like to see a totally elected board and governing body to include breeders, riders, trainers, judges, and veterinarians. I would like to see meetings be held online - possibly some in a forum style, as that would help to include many that would like to help in committees, or offer input, and eliminate the expense that only brings out some to become involved. I would like to see membership money pooled with a portion for national use, but a portion to be used by the regional sub-group that each member is included in.

an alliance for marketing, lobbying and advertising could do wonders using the strength of ALL breeders of ALL registries

This would be the goal for the organization. A future registry could be developed as a part of the organization IF the membership finds that it is a need, but I would like to see how much an SOLID alliance could do working WITH existing registries (and USEF) - lobbying for change as needed.

[Olympussporthorses]

I would love to see some sort of sporthorse/warmblood breeders association where breeders of all breeds of sporthorses can come together to communicate, advertise and discuss problems/advantages of US breeding and information at it pertains to us, Americans!

I don't think we necessarily need another registry for horses but an association for breeders would be a great idea.

[Atlantis]

I am genuinely curious what people expect the purpose of such a group to be.

I can see the value of a group which could consolidate all of the registry database information in one place. I could also see the value and convenience of being able to get one stallion guide each year, with all stallions from all registries included in one guide. I can see the potential for a large group to organize and fund things like auctions and stallion expos more easily than having each registry tackle these things individually. I can see the convenience of being able to go to one organization/website and search for, say, all black yearling fillies within 250 miles of me, or all Dutch stallions competing at FEI who ship fresh semen.

I can see the value of all of these conveniences, and would be willing to support such a group.

However, I have no interest in leaving my current registry. My current registry's guidelines and standards suite me perfectly, and I can say with pride my horses are X and my registry is Y.

I also feel that if a new organization were to try to take control of things like inspections and stallion testings, or establishing and maintaining breed standards, the new organization would have a very tough road ahead of them. I would leave these things to the individual registries.

I see the need for a group which is more of an omnipresent coordinator, organizer, and database geek squad. Working for/with existing registries, not replacing them.

[Home Again Farm]

Quote:
an alliance for marketing, lobbying and advertising could do wonders using the strength of ALL breeders of ALL registries
This would be the goal for the organization. A future registry could be developed as a part of the organization IF the membership finds that it is a need, but I would like to see how much an SOLID alliance could do working WITH existing registries (and USEF) - lobbying for change as needed.

I would support an alliance of regional breeders' groups that had the first part of the quote above as its purpose. However, I would not consider leaving my current registry. I haven't voted yet as I want to be sure of the proposed purpose of the organization.

[MagicRoseFarm]

It will be very necessary to direct it not only to breeders but also trainers, competitors, owners. Basically, otherwise you have another smaller splinter group, from a different direction.

Good luck trying to consolidate a database, I know ALL the hurdles there, Some registries have literally NOTHING as far as data... all use diffeent systems and none want to share their info because another might know something about them then...

You will have to get that on an individual basis... which makes accuracy WAY more difficult.. even the USEF cannot get JUST the DSHB shows recorded in a timely manner

.

[Fairview Horse Center]

To me, the goal for this type of organization would be to pull ALL sporthorse breeders in the US and Canada together to combine energy and resourses to aid in marketing and lobbying, and for education and breeders assistance. My vision does not include a registry, but I wouldn't rule out that as a future possibliity if 5, 10 years down the road, the members feel it is a need, even for SOME of the horses that are not covered by other registries.

It may lead to a low cost recording/registry for futurities, awards, etc., much as a USDF recording does now. This type of thing would be voted on by the membership, along with breeders costs.

Mostly, I would like it to lobby to get that one number system in place, organize things like Maryanna's stallion show, and the Hedgeland jumping clinic/show (AND TRAINING SESSIONS). Possibly regional training and sales centers along with a young horse trainer program.

It could also organize and run a 70 day testing in the future.

[tri]

Those of you that want to keep all the small fragmented regsitries, how do you propose to solve the following problems:

1. Each registry having to fund an entire North American inspection tour in which many of the sites only have a very small handful of entries. This costs each registry a boatload of money and we have european inspectors crisscrossing over each other's paths as these registries are holding redundant events.

2. Mare owners calling around to registry after registry to see if that year's chosen stallion is approved or where they might have to drag their poor mare to yet another approval site to be able to get a registerable foal.

3. The continued marketing of U.S. bred horses as a european product furthering the buying public's notion that to go to europe is the best.

4. The bleeding of money that both stallion owners and mare owners have to do to belong to & have approval with all these registries in the form of multiple membership fees, multi stallion activation fees and then also having to cough up yet more money to belong to yet another organization. This versus consolidating it down to bring a more cost-effective product to market.

5.Again, the fragmenting of the monies into the various registries so no real power source could be created.

6. The various registries past disdain for working with each other and unwillingness to share information.....much less forgo putting out their own stallion directory in favor of participating in one large "shared" directory.

[Joanne]

Fairview Horse Center wrote: "Rather than a registry, I would like to see a North American Warmblood and Sport Horse Breeder's Association. I would like to see this organization be made up of individual members, not registries."

Warmblood Breeders of North America. Scot Tolman et al had this several years ago, though I don't remember what exactly the guidelines were. I am sure some other member might be able to post the guidelines. It was not registry, but maybe a coalition of breeders of warmbloods. Of course, I don't know if Tri was involved to provide her very good questions for them to address.

[Home Again Farm]

Fairview, thank you for your expanded explanation. I'd support such an organization and will vote now.

[JMurray]

Yes an association of American Breed Breeders makes sense to me

[tri]

I think Scot's organization fell apart mosty due to bickering, lack of support and lack of cooperation.

[TKR]

Great idea, Darlyn and certainly overdue. There does need to be a "connective thread" for all the breeders of horses for the Olympic sport disciplines to help each with marketing, sales, training and just networking and the social part. It could certainly help each member have a better understanding and appreciation of each registry's rules and goals and meet new friends as well as perhaps dovetail the efforts of a country this large. Good luck!
PennyG

[Joanne]

So, what's the plan?

[hansiska]

I'd support such an organization. I think it's important that American breeders work together, but I don't think an American registry would ever come to fruition (nor would I want it to; I'm happy with my registry).

[DownYonder]

I would support such an organization depending on the charter, by-laws, goals, leadership, and membership fees. I think to make it really viable and attractive to the great majority of sport horse breeders, the top leadership would have to be well known and well respected leaders in the sport horse breeding arena, and preferably, people with experience in the business world. I would also like to see the leadership positions (BOD, Executive Director, etc.) restricted to U.S. citizens or at least to people who have resided in the U.S. for maybe the past 10 years or so.

[lorik]

I'm not a breeder (nor do I play one on TV :D), but from the comments I've heard and read over the past umpteen years running dressage breed shows I think this type of organization is long overdue. It would be a massive effort and take a great deal of financial support. Cooperation would have to be the hallmark of the organization, and many would have to put aside much of the petty bickering that I also see. If you all get this off the ground, the US breeder could finally be a united force.

[Daydream Believer]

Call it an American Sporthorse Breeders Association and be open as to what breeds are allowed (not just Euro WB's) and I would support it. Otherwise it's just another WB breeders group and leaves out a lot of people also breeding for sport who might be breeding Iberians, Baroques like Freisians, RID's, or the dreaded American breeds. ;-)

[exvet]

Call it an American Sporthorse Breeders Association and be open as to what breeds are allowed (not just Euro WB's) and I would support it. Otherwise it's just another WB breeders group and leaves out a lot of people also breeding for sport who might be breeding Iberians, Baroques like Freisians, RID's, or the dreaded American breeds. ;-)

and/or Welsh cobs :winkgrin:

Honestly as a breeder, competitor, veterinarian, trainer of my own...I really do not love the idea of one more "group" to have to pay to play. I already as the aforementioned have over a few thousand $$ go out each year to breed registries, discipline groups, show organizations, etc. The breed registries have coop efforts for advertising and provide some support though imo not solely directed towards the "sport horse". Yet at this time they do more than any other group to help "my" cause such that it is.

Mostly, I would like it to lobby to get that one number system in place, organize things like Maryanna's stallion show, and the Hedgeland jumping clinic/show (AND TRAINING SESSIONS). Possibly regional training and sales centers along with a young horse trainer program.

Now these are of course excellent ideas and ones I can get behind and do not see my breed registries EVER putting forth the effort to assist; but, and this is a big but....I still see exclusionary practices that would evolve despite the intent to be inclusionary to those breeders who claim to breed/show/sell "sport" types. Though everything on my property either has done or does eventing, dressage or CDEs, there are many who would exclude my kind - too short, too fat, too drafty, too hitchy/hackney, yada yada yada yada.............

[Daydream Believer]

Call it an American Sporthorse Breeders Association and be open as to what breeds are allowed (not just Euro WB's) and I would support it. Otherwise it's just another WB breeders group and leaves out a lot of people also breeding for sport who might be breeding Iberians, Baroques like Freisians, RID's, or the dreaded American breeds. ;-)

and/or Welsh cobs :winkgrin:



Sorry! I did not mean to exclude Welsh Cobs or any other breed. I was only naming a couple of examples of non WB sport horse types. :)

[Gindarkh]

Call it an American Sporthorse Breeders Association and be open as to what breeds are allowed (not just Euro WB's) and I would support it. Otherwise it's just another WB breeders group and leaves out a lot of people also breeding for sport who might be breeding Iberians, Baroques like Freisians, RID's, or the dreaded American breeds. ;-)

Amen ! Why can't the word sporthorse ever be considered without the word warmblood attached to it ?

[Fairview Horse Center]

Call it an American Sporthorse Breeders Association and be open as to what breeds are allowed (not just Euro WB's) and I would support it. Otherwise it's just another WB breeders group and leaves out a lot of people also breeding for sport who might be breeding Iberians, Baroques like Freisians, RID's, or the dreaded American breeds. ;-)

From my first post...
I would like to see a North American Warmblood and Sport Horse Breeder's Association.

;)

[Daydream Believer]

So you want two or one organizations or the one organization can do both? Do you really think it would work?

[Fairview Horse Center]

Yes, I do think one organization can provide support for all sporthorse breeders, Warmblood or not. Lobbying for the one number, creating regional sales support and education, etc.

[Daydream Believer]

After reading the American breeds thread do you think the Euro WB breeders will support it if the registry also supports American breeds? It's not looking to me like some of these folks will ever see the value in anything except their chosen breed for sport horse purposes. Having a favorite breed is fine but close mindedness is not. I truly do work with a lot of different breeds and I have my favorite one also but I'm open minded enough to see the value in diversity and the contributions all breeds can make to a common national goal.

[JMurray]

That has been my thought as well. I am ok with a Sport Horse Breed Registry or a Sport Horse Breeders Association as long as it is not another registry or association for warm bloods and warm blood breeders that excludes American Breeds. Otherwise the American breeds will continue to be marginalized and not have an opportunity to influence the direction of Sport Horses in the United States. IMHO

[Home Again Farm]

Yes, I do think one organization can provide support for all sporthorse breeders, Warmblood or not. Lobbying for the one number, creating regional sales support and education, etc.

I do, too. :yes:

[JMurray]

The Sport Horse Breed shows judge each horse by the same standard anyway. So the individual beed classes are judged so you know which representative of your breed is closest to the Sport Horse desired traits. I found this really fair so when we did the Nokota IBC at Fairhill and Devon I walked away understanding what I need to focus on. I did not feel like I was having to go away and breed Nokotas that looked like a warmblood, but rather what athletic traits to emphasize, in the Nokota Phenotype. And that is good for the breed overall.


So let us in!

[TouchstoneAcres]

I don't see where I'd fit in. My breed is not meant to look like the DSHB type. I don't use the words "warmblood" or "sport horse" to describe a Lipizzan. Do I breed for the top of Olympic sports, no, mainly for dressage, and more for the ART of riding than competitive sport. If the group were to support breeders in the USA and not be slanted towards one type, then it could be useful. But I am not seeing much here that relates to me. Even discussion of pure breeds on this thread is geared towards the individuals that look more like DSHB/WB types than is typical for their breed. So what is the goal then? Support American breeders or certain breeders? Best to lay it out up front and think it through. There is no need to reinvent the wheel or imitate a European WB registry. What do you want that you aren't getting? Certainly not a piece of paper. Maybe you want marketing of what you breed? Then go about that. Include as many American horse show /discipline types as you like.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I don't see where I'd fit in. My breed is not meant to look like the DSHB type. I don't use the words "warmblood" or "sport horse" to describe a Lipizzan. Do I breed for the top of Olympic sports, no, mainly for dressage,

A sporthorse breeder is one that breeds for dressage, jumpers, hunters, eventing, & combined driving. Warmbloods and Baroques fit into that, as well as pony breeds, even QH breeders that are breeding for those disciplines, or breeding to train for those disciplines. Just like the USDF is not just for Warmbloods, a Sporthorse Breeders Association is not just for specific breeds.

[wildswan]

I also would not support another horse registry, as I am more than happy with the one I belong to, and I believe there are already enough registries to accommodate all the sporthorse breeders in North America.

But I would definitely support a "breeders organization" if it met the following criteria:
It included ALL North American sporthorse breeders (regardless of breed, or type). I would define sporthorse breeder as one who breeds horses for competition in an equestrian sport recognized and regulated by the USEF.

The goals of the organization were to identify the major advantages and disadvantages we face when competing with European breeders for sporthorse sales, and 2) to work toward maximizing the advantages and minimizing and/or eliminating the disadvantages.

I believe this organization is long overdue. I personally believe that the lack of a one number tracking system and a corresponding performance database is the most serious disadvantage we face, but it is cerntainly not the only one; lack of mare and stallion shows, lack of rearers and young horse trainers, lack of sales networks, and sales auctions, to name just a few others. Until North American sporthorse breeders join together to identify and address our unique problems, we will always be at a disadvantage when competing for market share.

Similar to exvet, I would not contribute time or money to any new organization unless it had a reasonable expectation of providing additional benefits to sporthorse breeders. But, given the right set of objectives, I would gladly get on board.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I would define sporthorse breeder as one who breeds horses for competition in an equestrian sport recognized and regulated by the USEF..

I don't believe it can be successful if defined that broadly. Western disciplines, Walking Horses and other saddle seat disciplines have their breed registries that support their breeders.

[Daydream Believer]

I don't believe it can be successful if defined that broadly. Western disciplines, Walking Horses and other saddle seat disciplines have their breed registries that support their breeders.

How about limiting it to a sport or discipline recognized by the FEI?

[Fairview Horse Center]

That leaves out hunters, our largest sport

[Fairview Horse Center]

Sporthorses have always been Dressage, Jumpers, Hunters, Eventing, and Combined Driving.

[wildswan]

But I would definitely support a "breeders organization" if it met the following criteria:
It included ALL North American sporthorse breeders (regardless of breed, or type). I would define sporthorse breeder as one who breeds horses for competition in an equestrian sport recognized and regulated by the USEF.

I don't believe it can be successful if defined that broadly. Western disciplines, Walking Horses and other saddle seat disciplines have their breed registries that support their breeders.

How about limiting it to a sport or discipline recognized by the FEI?

That leaves out hunters, our largest sport

I considered before posting this that my definition of "sporthorse" was too broad to be workable, but I posted it anyway to generate discussion. Some will argue that any horse is a sporthorse. Under their definition many breeders would qualify to participate, but members would have little in common. Others will argue that only horses bred for olympic competition are sporthorses. Under this definition fewer breeders would qualify, but members would have more in common.

Personally, I vote for a narrower definition. The more we have in common and the narrower the focus, the more likely we are to succeed.

[Fairview Horse Center]

Actually racing is a sport too. ;)

[twofatponies]

I'm not a breeder, but it sounds like one of the main needs is for a marketing and promotion organization that would get the idea out to the riding public that there are many American breeds and cross breeds which are performing successfully in the Sporthorse disciplines...

As a rider/driver with an interest in several American breeds, I would follow news from such an organization, such as subscribing to their newsletter or reading their website/forums.

[TBlitz]

I'd like to add my POV to this thread since I'm hoping to breed sport horses someday. :D

I think it would be great is NA could create an association along the lines of the British program (http://www.sporthorsegb.co.uk/general/about_us.htm) with the following purpose:

Today Sport Horse Breeding of Great Britain is a professional Society run by a Council elected annually by its members. To date, SHB (GB) has over 3,500 members and a Council of up to 15 members. The Society has 3 sub-committees the Brood Mare Committee, Stallion Committee, and Show Committee who look after the operations of the Society in these areas. The objectives of the Society are to:

1. Maintain the Sport Horse Breeding of Great Britain Stud Books
2. Promote and market the achievements of British bred sport horses nationally and internationally
3. Operate schemes to improve the quality of British bred sport horses
4. Oversee the governance of Show Hunter and Sport Horse Classes nation wide

The breeding objective of Sport Horse Breeding of Great Britain is to produce a correct, sound, athletic sport horse with the potential to exceed in Show Jumping, Dressage or Eventing.


Also look at their approval process for Mares and Stallions.

or the Irish one with the following mission statement:

The breeding objective of the Irish Sport Horse Studbook is to produce a correct, sound, athletic sport horse with good basic paces making it very pleasant to ride and with a good temperament, which can be used as a pleasure or performance horse, capable of competing in showjumping, eventing and dressage at both national and international level.


It's not like we would have to create our own model for a North American Org. There are already plenty successful ones out there (like the above ones) that would be easy to follow if we had support of top breeders and used top judges.

[tri]

Tblitz, I've brought up British Breeding many times as an alternative way to organize the U.S. sporthorse breeding industry.

[TouchstoneAcres]

These discussions tend to shift beween a marketing association and an alternative to a European-based registry. That has to be very clearly defined first. If the former, there doesn't have to be such insistance on FEI disciplines etc. That is pulled from foreign registries and USEF. What works here for American breeders should be the question. Fill a void; don't duplicate. Obviously hunters need to be included. What would be the harm in including oher American sports like endurance? Reining is already FEI but does have an effective voice in NRHA. That shouldn't necessarily exclude them though. I think early emphasis would be on the usual sport disciplines plus hunters. Other could be included if the demand is there. It must offer something unique without the heavy emphasis on WBs. If it is composed of WB breeders focused on dressage and jumpers it won't add much, or certainly won't get the support of other breeders. If you recruited many breeds and discipines the audience/market would be wider, and the dues/ad support greater. Don't market to a very small group--there isn't enough money out there. Get a bigger market. You might just find more sales for everyone by becoming The Place to Shop.