Holsteiner Stallion Alcatraz

[Underdog]

Who can tell me about this stallion. I have a DVD with him on it, and wow, what little was included with him on it, he was stunning.

What kind of foal does he produce...I like all rounders that can jump as well as ride dressage.
Does he produce himself? How is his frozen? How old is he now?

I definitely like his blood on both sides, but notice when Ramiro is close in the mix, the prepotency of him comes through. Thats just fine with me. ;-)

[dbts]

Clearblue has used Alcatraz with resulting foal developing into a top notch eventer. She will probably be able to add more. I saw Alcatraz in Germany and he is gorgeous. Here in CO I saw a mare by him that was very typey, chestnut with lots of bling (probably from the Ramiro). She was doing jumpers.

[EquineLVR]

He also has a stallion son that stands here Albarez..you can google him and find his website..

[alison123]

I had thoughts of using him as he is beautiful but one thing I was told if you have a smaller mare to consider is that he is some what inconsitant in regards to size.

[ParadiseFarm]

I have a 2yo colt by Alcatraz. You can see him on my website at:http://www.paradisefarmmiami.com/page3.html -- he is 3rd one on the page, Alexander P.

He is easy to handle, very sweet and laid back. He is also exceptionally athletic and a super mover. He recently passed his stallion medical exam for BWP and if all goes well, he will be presented to BWP on the next Keuring tour.

I used the frozen, the semen was terrific. My mare caught on the first try -- even though she ovulated 18 hours post-insemination.At moment, Alexander is standing just under 16.2, his dam is 16.0. I believe he will finish out close to 17.0.

I no longer have the ability to breed frozen but if I did, I would breed to Alcatraz again in a heartbeat.

CBoylen on this board has an Alcatraz mare that she has done very well with and speaks very highly of. Lovely mare, from the pics I have seen, correct, exquisite jump.

[ponygirl]

He is a great broodmare sire. I love him. He is inconsistent regarding size thrown so you just don't know what you are going to get there.

[Daventry]

There is also a 17 HH dark bay sabino son of his standing at Hidden Hill Farm in North Carolina. His name is Alpine. Their website is www.hiddenhillfarm.us (http://www.hiddenhillfarm.us)

[CBoylen]

CBoylen on this board has an Alcatraz mare that she has done very well with and speaks very highly of. Lovely mare, from the pics I have seen, correct, exquisite jump.
Thanks :). I love my Alcatraz mare, and I've seen some other lovely hunters by him.
My mare is on the smaller side, as noted above, and is a very good hunter type mover. She is, and always has been, extremely quiet and well mannered, and wonderful to be around in all aspects. She had a large amount of scope when she was competing, I did show her for a time in the 4'3-4'6" jumpers, though she was most successful in the hunter ring, due to her quietness and extreme carefulness.
Mine isn't flashy though like some of the ones you see ;).

[Underdog]

Thanks everyone so much for the responses. Keep it coming!

OK, the height can be an issue it sounds, and bling isn't always there either. Eh, no problem.

My 3 yo mare that I just presented to the AHHA, and made MMB, is 16.1 1/2 and I can expect more height til she's done growing. Toping out at least 16.2, probably more.

It's a gamble possibly worth taking.

Chandra, I appreciate the feedback. This is the Corlando filly I bred. She is an absolute doll with the best brains, and tons of scope as well. I understand the amateur market vs. the pro market, so while she has talent for both, I don't necessairly think it takes a hot horse to make an international horse. :-) A tidy and efficient horse with brains is the best combo IMO.
Quite the subject in many facets lately.

I have to finish watching the video....but I also really liked Aradius. Quinar is also a top consideration.....he is very refined, but I like the amt of bone my girl has and if anything, prefer more. Thats the only thing bothering me.
I know refinement is also another *topic* when it comes to breeding international sporthorses.

Shopping can be fun. I have the winter. ;-)

[Peggy]

I've ridden one a few times that I've been told is a son. Good mind, no chrome, fabulous jump, nice gaits. Just generally easy to work with, tho he's a bit green.

[goodmorning]

I've found him quite nice myself...can anyone comment on the 'type' that he throws? Best type of mare to get for a more modern-type?

[alison123]

One thing are you planning on keeping the foal for yourself or to sell? If you are keeping then alcatrez seems to have great type and temp and brains are so important, however if you are looking to possibly sell I would watch the height issue. Not to say that people only want big horses but I find it easier to sell horses that have a little height to them. Being that your mare is a good height if you cross to him you could end up with something around 16 hands.. or smaller I know a breeder who was so thrilled with this stallion and now they are so worried because they dont know if it will even mature at 16 hands and it is so well bred. Then again it could turn out around 17, but there is a range so I would just figure out what your plans are.. Just a thought... good luck

[Cinnybren]

My mare's previous owner bred her to Alcatraz and the resulting foal was bright chestnut LOTS of chrome (four stockings and big blaze), just over 17.2H as a 6 yo. with very solid bone. He is a real charmer, terrific temperment, could do dressage or go the jumper ring successfully.

My mare is MMB AHHA, 16.2, bright bay with no white on her face, a sock in back and "socklets" in front all with ermine spots. She was very successful in the jumper ring competing and winning in the A/O's (Spruce, Kentucky). She is a bit older style but not really heavy (1987 model).

[EquineLVR]

One very large item to note is that Alcatraz's dam line is PHENOMENAL!! Which is also something breeders should look at...

Just to mention a few that have come from that dam line:

Ahorn Z
Farmer
Denver
Bordeaux VDL
Taloubet VDL
Laertes
Colt
Merano
Lancier
Joost
Le Santo
Briscar
Comet
Castellini
Liostro
Con Cosmos

And at least 100 Keur, premimum, prestatie mares and sporthorses.. that is VERY impressive.

[Underdog]

How do you think he would cross with a TB mare?

The one I am thinking of is absolutely slapped together. Gorgeous neck set high on her outstanding shoulder, lovely head, and most importantly....a GREAT engine to match that front end.

My ONLY complaint and worry is the substance below the knee, and would want larger feet than she has.
Alcatraz looks rather substantial....would he put more bone on a foal when crossed with a TB?

Maybe I should get pictures of this mare for confro critique

[EquineLVR]

I think he would cross well as long as you have a good type fit.

[Valentina_32926]

Ponygirl who responded above, bred her Riverman mare to Aradius - producing a striking bay with killer movement and jump - an Olympic rider has tried to buy the mare a few times - sweet disposition, premium BWP rating (dam is AHHA registered, granddam is SWANA registered).

[Sonesta]

do take a look at the Alcatraz son, Albarez. I have watched him in the jumper ring for a couple of years now and have been around when his owner was schooling him at home. LOVELY stallion. Truly.

[3Dogs]

La Gringa I believe has a lovely Albarez filly. I think I remember that right ;)

[Kyzteke]

How funny this thread should come up! I was just visiting Fox Fire Farms and looking at their frozen catalogue. I was reminded of how much I always liked this stallion.

I have THE worst luck with frozen -- but you say it's very good?

What kind of movement does he throw? More hunter or dressage or would you never use him for dressage?

[ponygirl]

The semen is very good. If for some reason your mare does not take, you can use fresh as backup.

[Kyzteke]

The semen is very good. If for some reason your mare does not take, you can use fresh as backup.

Fresh? I thought Alcatraz was in Germany....

[spook1]

Doesn't Fox fire Farm offer him?

[Kyzteke]

Doesn't Fox fire Farm offer him?

Only as frozen, I believe. They might have a back up of fresh from one of their stallions standing in the US, but not Alcatraz himself....although I have heard of Briar (Swedish) sending fresh chilled from Europe to American mares...not sure how successful it would be.

[ponygirl]

Sorry! Yes, he's only available frozen but if your mare does not take for whatever reason, you can use the stallions fox fire farm has here in US soil. Those would be Ariadus, Linaro, Quinar and Camiros. Very different stallions and different blood.

[WB Mom]

My boy is by BNH's absolutely wonderful mare and Alcatraz. I originally bought him as a hunter. But as time has gone by, I have realized that he could definitely do the jumpers very sucessfully and although we have only done low level dressage (and some wonderful schooling shows) he scored a 78% in intro last week. What a hoot!
He is wonderful to work with, and VERY CAREFUL with everything he does. His biggest hurdle is confidence. He could use more of it. I think that will come as we grow together, go to new places and do new things.
Everyone's horse is special, but I can actually say that no matter where we've been, or what the discipline we are doing, almost without exception everyone, spectators and judges alike have always told me how much they like him. It's wonderful to have such a true gentleman who is so talented in many areas.
You never know what life holds, so having a long term partner who can do more than one thing very well is perfect for me.
Oh, and I would absolutely love to foxhunt him in the future as well!
I highly recommend Alcatraz. Sometimes I think he is overlooked by folks looking for the 'newest' stallion out there. Look at his record - it speaks for itself. He is a wonderful established stallion.

[WB Mom]

P.S. I almost forgot. I took him to a western show and took him in some flat classes (like hunter-stock type) just to get him out into the ring for experience. I had the judge give me a wonderful compliment on him - and he actually did place in every class he was in. We both learned a lot that day!
Go Alcatraz!

[PSD]

I owned an Alcatraz baby, Alkatop, up until I sold him this past spring. I bought him as a 4 y.o. after he was imported. He was a stallion at the time and not wanting a stallion at the time, but wanting the option to breed with him later, if possible, I had semen collected and frozen.

I showed him up to the A/Os and professionally up to the 2nd years. He was not the best hunter mover and his stride became a bit limiting at the 3'6" and 4', however, he had a 10 jump and a great amateur attitude. He did superb for me at the 3'. I kept him at home and would trailer for lessons. I have been using his frozen semen, which has been excellent, having one baby a year the past several years, and have tried to breed for better hunter movement with his jump and attitude. The movement has been better (esp. so far, with his 1st son) and with the one I have jumped a little so far, the jump looks very good. His 1st baby, the only one I showed on the line a little, won the non-thoroughbred foal class at Upperville in 2004 as a 3 month old.

I sold him this past spring as an 11 y.o. because I had done just about everything I wanted to do with him and it was time to concentrate on all his babies. A move and some medical issues have caused me to delay 'bringing' some of them out, however, will start that next year.

I love the color he throws, the attitudes and hopefully a continuation of his jump with a bit better movement and stride. Alkatop was 16.2 when I sold him, his 1st baby (filly) as a 4 y.o. is now 16.1, his 1st son is now 16.3 as a June baby 3 y.o., his 2nd son is almost 16.1 at 18 mo. and I haven't measured the last baby in awhile, but he is quite large as a 7 month old. He was a dream to own and I am having a great time with the babies. I love learning about the other Alcatraz babies!

I have included a photo of Alkatop (Alcatraz X Hillary X Contender) and some of his babies.

[Underdog]

PSD...that's a lovely example.
I 'm jumping the gun and assuming the last photo is one of his foals.

Has Alkatop been presented to the AHHA?
I like Contender in his (damline).

More controversy here with breeding hunter amateur types, or international quality horses.

I have a great mare I rode in the chill today that was minimal *fresh*, and 3.5 years old.

I'm 47 and try to keep myself fit.
She took care of me and she was fresh with the chill in the air today, in PA.

I like that. A lot. A real lot.
And she can JUMP like daddy.

[goodmorning]

So I wonder if the mare I had been thinking about would be a good fit. She's 17.1 chestnut TB, huge all around, very flat hunter mover. Really the only thing I'd like to do is add a little length to her neck...and more refinement without loss of bone...hmm....

[ponygirl]

Goodmorning, he won't refine the mare. He's not a refining stallion.

[Underdog]

so Alcatraz will give substance. Good to know.
I'd give my right arm if he could give my filly a lovely head. LOL!

I believe Quinar is considered a refining stallion.

[ise@ssl]

I saw him on one of my trips to Germany. He's extremely handsome and a fabulous mover.

[PSD]

Hello, Underdog,

Yes, that last baby is his by my Airport/Argentan Hanoverian mare. He is very nice.

I did think about pursuing approval with the AHHA and even took my thoroughbred to the approvals at Hilltop in 2004. She did make the provisional book (she is a 'hunter' mover, a nice mover, but 'hunter'). However, I gradually learned that since he had not gone through the stallion approvals in Germany and since I had gelded him, he could not go through the approvals here. He was branded Holsteiner in Germany, just never went through the approvals.

But, that was never my agenda. It may have been nice and sure, would have added value, but that was not my agenda. When I bought him, I just wanted a fancy show hunter that I could start and see how far I could get with him. And, he was great. The babies have just been the icing on the cake. They have been very nice. I have only had a baby a year for the past several years and hope, everything willing, to start showing the younger ones next year. If there is interest in the babies or the semen down the line, great. If not, I have some very nice horses.

And, yes, Alkatop has a lot of bone as do his babies. Two of the babies are by my thoroughbred mare (chestnut, 16.3, very flat mover) and two by my Hanoverian mare (17.1, VERY floaty, flat-kneed trot). All with good bone.

[mcnjennifer]

I have a gelding by Alcatraz and I have to say hands down it is the best horse I have ever owned. He is small (15.3h), but what he lacks in height he makes up for in jump. I show him in the 1st year hunters and he's always champion or reserve champion. He has a massive step. The only thing that has made this horse remotely challenging in the show ring is that in the beginning I would often fall of due to his fabulous jump... he would literally pop me out of the tack.

His size does not bother me because his price has increased because there are many small children who would look too small on a bigger horse and would love to buy him to do the small juniors on.

I bought him in Germany at his inspection and he got a 10 on movement and jump. he is awesome, I never lose a flat class. He is super calm though. can be a little spooky at the jumps but will never refuse, he will just jump it higher. I would buy another Alcatraz baby in a heart beat, I haven't even scraped Alezzio's capabilities though.

he looks like a small chestnut version of Alcatraz

here are some photos:

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr360/mcnjennifer/n1043328802_210920_4733.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr360/mcnjennifer/DSC02338.jpg

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr360/mcnjennifer/Picture7.png