Another color genetic ? Ee aa

[Windswept Stable]

What is the impression of the color of this result

Ee aa

[JB]

What is the impression of the color of this result

Ee aa

It's a black horse. E is dominant over e, so it's black-based. aa means there is no bay expression (limiting black to the points). Therefore, black :)

That is, of course, assuming there are no other factors not listed that are affecting the black, such as dun or cream ;)

[Windswept Stable]

It's a black horse. E is dominant over e, so it's black-based. aa means there is no bay expression (limiting black to the points). Therefore, black :)

That is, of course, assuming there are no other factors not listed that are affecting the black, such as dun or cream ;)

The cream test was nn

The gray test was gg

I did not do a dun test. The mare was gray. Stallion chestnut.

[RiddleMeThis]

The cream test was nn

The gray test was gg

I did not do a dun test. The mare was gray. Stallion chestnut.Then you know that the mare was black based, Ee and had at least one a, ?a. You know the stallion is ee and also ?a

[JB]

The cream test was nn

The gray test was gg

I did not do a dun test. The mare was gray. Stallion chestnut.

Is there something about the horse that doesn't look black? Or were you just wondering what Eeaa really meant?

[Windswept Stable]

Is there something about the horse that doesn't look black? Or were you just wondering what Eeaa really meant?

Well JB--he sure looks black to me, but I've not had a black baby before and to make sure before marketing him as a black--I want to make sure he's black. And I did the testing--but I have a degree in nursing--not genetics--so I was wondering what that Eeaa really meant.
He sure looks black.
But he was born a very funky mousy sooty wierd color with a dorsal stripe and what I called two or three "zebra stripes" on the backs of his front legs. Then he went to a wierdish bay-ish color (see slide show) which was part of the shed -out ..and now under it all--seems to be black.


http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e307/windsweptstables/08%20black%20power%20colt/?action=view&current=5d20e9d3.pbw

[JoZ]

He's a handsome boy! Yep, that's what blacks do -- that range of colors sounds pretty typical. I think black bays (very dark bays) can do the same thing but they'd be Aa or AA.

So in case any color pros check back in I have my own question... EEAa or EEAA -- is this possible? I think it would be a homozygous black that is a bay? I've never seen it or heard of it but figure it is possible, unless I am doing something wrong.

[RiddleMeThis]

So in case any color pros check back in I have my own question... EEAa or EEAA -- is this possible? I think it would be a homozygous black that is a bayYes. DEFINITELY possible. I have seen tons of them actually. EEAA is VERY nice as ALL foals will be bay based. No chestnuts or black from that horse.

[JB]

Well JB--he sure looks black to me, but I've not had a black baby before and to make sure before marketing him as a black--I want to make sure he's black. And I did the testing--but I have a degree in nursing--not genetics--so I was wondering what that Eeaa really meant.
He sure looks black.
Gotcha - yep, glad you had him tested. Too many people advertise the horse because 1) "but he looks black" and 2) black is a desirable color.

But he was born a very funky mousy sooty wierd color with a dorsal stripe and what I called two or three "zebra stripes" on the backs of his front legs.
Yep, blacks that will stay black are nearly always born a mousy grayish color. So, based purely on that, you'd have been pretty darn sure he wasn't going to gray, and you now have the gg to prove it :D

He's SO cute!

[sfstable]

He's a handsome boy! Yep, that's what blacks do -- that range of colors sounds pretty typical. I think black bays (very dark bays) can do the same thing but they'd be Aa or AA.

So in case any color pros check back in I have my own question... EEAa or EEAA -- is this possible? I think it would be a homozygous black that is a bay? I've never seen it or heard of it but figure it is possible, unless I am doing something wrong.

I tested my yearling and he was confirmed as homozygous black (EE) but he is bay -- his mother is a gray born bay. I tested him because I am thinking of keeping him as a stallion prospect and his father also is a bay who has been tested as homozygous for black.

This is what the report on my boy says regarding E and e :

Ee -- both black and red factors detected. The horse tested heterozygous for the red factor. It can transmit either E or e to its offspring. The basic color of the horse will be black, bay or brown, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse may be buckskin, zebra dun, grullo, perlino, gray, or white.

EE -- only the black factor detected. The horse tested homozygous for black pigment. It cannot have red foals regardless of the color of the mate. The basic color of the horse will be black, bay or brown, but depending on genes at other color loci, the horse may be buckskin, zebra dun, grullo, perlino, gray, or white.

ee -- only red pigment detected .....

[Pippin]

a question re what does homozygous black mean.. ?? that that stallion cannot produce a chestnut???


P~

[sniplover]

Pippin, you are correct: a homozygous black stallion can never produce a chestnut. Homozygous means two copies of the same allele (black allele vs red allele - same gene, just different genetic codes), whereas heterozygous means two different alleles. So homozygous black is black/black, heterozygous is black/red and then there is homozygous red; red/red. Black (referred to as E) is dominant over red (referred to as e), so heterozygous horses (black/red genetically) will always*** look black (***Bay, grey, cream, etc are all different genes and are inherited completely independently of black/red.)

Bay ('A' makes the horse bay and is dominant so you only need one copy to make a black into a bay, 'a' has no effect) alters any black horse (whether black/red or black/black) to bay --- the bay 'effect' does not show up on a chestnut horse, so a chestnut (red/red by nature) can be homo (AA or aa)- or heterozyous (Aa) for the bay gene without you ever seeing any indication on their coat.

[dressagetraks]

So if you have a breed like Cleveland Bay, where all horses seem to be bay, period, does that mean that all CBs are homozygous agouti? I've got a CB/Trak cross, and I've wondered just how they get a color like that so consistently (my untested cross is the same deep bay of any CB). I realize she herself could carry something else from her Trak half, just curious how you can get a color that consistent within the CBs.

[RiddleMeThis]

So if you have a breed like Cleveland Bay, where all horses seem to be bay, period, does that mean that all CBs are homozygous agouti? I've got a CB/Trak cross, and I've wondered just how they get a color like that so consistently (my untested cross is the same deep bay of any CB). I realize she herself could carry something else from her Trak half, just curious how you can get a color that consistent within the CBs.
Yes they are almost all EEAA. With a few exceptions I believe, same with most Clydes. Almost all Friesians are EE and the stallions who are Ee no longer get breeding approval from what I have heard.

[ljshorses]

I have a chestnut mare that I believe is eeAA. I haven't had her tested but she has had many foals. She has been bred to homozygous blacks and always produces bay, I should get her tested to see if I'm right. Genetics is amazing. I love trying to guess what the foals will look like and have been pretty surprised over the years, lol. I have another mare (bay)that has had chestnut, bay and black foals and has had many. I believe she is EeAa.

[JB]

I have a chestnut mare that I believe is eeAA. I haven't had her tested but she has had many foals.
I'm not saying your mare *isn't* AA, but a mare can't have enough foals to prove many things :)

She has been bred to homozygous blacks and always produces bay,
Are they *black* homozygous blacks? If they have been black (and tested as EEaa), then you only know she has at least one A. She could have 10 bay foals with EEaa stallions, making you think she's AA, but that 11th foal ends up black :winkgrin:

I have another mare (bay)that has had chestnut, bay and black foals and has had many. I believe she is EeAa.
Yep, she has to be EeAa if she's produced chestnut and black foals :)

[Pippin]

thank you for your time..
I have a colt out of a red/bay mare, sire is Homozgous black.. . . the colt is a deep black bay.. almost thought he was black but his muzzel is a dark brown.. Would this be considered a black bay or brown bay???
P~



Pippin, you are correct: a homozygous black stallion can never produce a chestnut. Homozygous means two copies of the same allele (black allele vs red allele - same gene, just different genetic codes), whereas heterozygous means two different alleles. So homozygous black is black/black, heterozygous is black/red and then there is homozygous red; red/red. Black (referred to as E) is dominant over red (referred to as e), so heterozygous horses (black/red genetically) will always*** look black (***Bay, grey, cream, etc are all different genes and are inherited completely independently of black/red.)

Bay ('A' makes the horse bay and is dominant so you only need one copy to make a black into a bay, 'a' has no effect) alters any black horse (whether black/red or black/black) to bay --- the bay 'effect' does not show up on a chestnut horse, so a chestnut (red/red by nature) can be homo (AA or aa)- or heterozyous (Aa) for the bay gene without you ever seeing any indication on their coat.

[JB]

thank you for your time..
I have a colt out of a red/bay mare, sire is Homozgous black.. . . the colt is a deep black bay.. almost thought he was black but his muzzel is a dark brown.. Would this be considered a black bay or brown bay???
P~

It's hard to say without pictures, and harder to say with certainty without a test. If he is black-ish, with a dark brown muzzle, most likely he's dark brown. www.petdna.com is the only one who currently tests for brown (At instead of A). It's at the Agouti location, just a different expression.

[JWB]

www.petdna.com is the only one who currently tests for brown (At instead of A). It's at the Agouti location, just a different expression.

Can you double check that link or tell me where to go from there? I got what appeared to be a very generic web page like you see when domains are for sale when I clicked the link.

I'm not planning on breeding my girl any time soon but it would be nice to know what's there. I have my hunch....

Her registration papers say dark brown. Her dad appeared bay. Not sure what color her mother was but I know both sire and dam HAVE produced chestnut so obviously both cary e - Right now I'd call her a dark bay but she's blackening up from being WAY sun bleached. I've seen several dark bay/brown siblings from the sire's side.

Although I have a general gist of the Ee Aa Gg and the dilution genes, I am confused about the varying shades you can get....

[Royal Monaco]

That thread is very ineresting.

I've been reading and reading on color genetic, but there is nothing like popularization.

I decided to test my mare's DNA this summer because I had no clue what base color she was. I bought her she was already grey and someone told me she was born yellow :eek:... She gave me a bay foal from a bay stallion, but could'nt figure what base color she is.

So the result is e/e a/a G/g N/Cr. I can't tell you how surprised I was when I realised she was a palomino. And mostly surprised to have a bay foal out of her !!!

Can't wait to breed her again and see what color I will get !

[JoZ]

Can you double check that link or tell me where to go from there? I got what appeared to be a very generic web page like you see when domains are for sale when I clicked the link.

I googled "horse dna test brown" and found this site: http://www.petdnaservicesaz.com

I don't have time to go look at it though; I was stealing a quick break from work!

[JB]

Thanks JoZ, sorry about that! Yes, that's the one.

As for the "yellow" (which I immediately assumed to be palomino) who was eeaaGgnCr, the bay foal was *entirely* the product of the stallion's genetics :) If the stallion is EEAA, then he has no choice but to produce bay of some variation. Your mare could have given her Cr to give you buckskin. If you're breeding back to the same stallion, your color options are still wide open unless you know the stallion's genetics.

[Royal Monaco]

Thanks JoZ, sorry about that! Yes, that's the one.

As for the "yellow" (which I immediately assumed to be palomino) who was eeaaGgnCr, the bay foal was *entirely* the product of the stallion's genetics :) If the stallion is EEAA, then he has no choice but to produce bay of some variation. Your mare could have given her Cr to give you buckskin. If you're breeding back to the same stallion, your color options are still wide open unless you know the stallion's genetics.

Yes my color options are quite large... that is why I was surprised to get a bay colt wich is quite a common color regarding everything else I could have got.

I plan to breed my mare to another bay stallion (Sir Wanabi) next spring and I can't wait to see the result !!! I would be thrilled to get a weird color with some bling (my mare is also sabino) ! But you know, a nice healthy foal is my priority...