Are there biases in the hunt field?!?!?

[Rt66Kix]

An online friend of mine is intersted in hunting. She received an invitation to hunt with her local hunt, but is now discouraged because one of the members was quite snarky when she found out my friend would be riding her Arabian.

IME, as long as a horse is suitable for the hunt field, does it really matter what their breeding is? If they are safe; will listen to their rider; not kick hounds, horses or humans; is rate-able; will stand quietly at checks; will keep up with whatever field they are in; and behaves properly, does it REALLY matter?!?!?!

I have a friend who hunts a Saddlebred. Buddy is my QH/TB; there are several draft crosses in the field in my hunt; I knew a woman who rode an Arabian in her hunt.

I've seen TB that are hot; TB that are deadheads; full drafts that get so excited they are like spider monkeys jacked up on Mountain Dew. My one OTQH is WAAAAY too reactive to be a good hunt horse, but have seen several in the hunt field doing just fine.

IMO, if someone wants to be a breed snob, they aren't worth the time of day. Obviously their importance is on other things than hunting.

Thoughts?

[SteeleRdr]

There are biases in the hunt field, just as there are in the other horse events. Arabs are not your typical/everyday hunt horses. You will see more, TB's, DraftX's, QH's, and warmbloods. People would have the Arab biased, whether it be hunting or not, some just don't like the breed.

However, I would tell your friend to not be discouraged, and to go despite what was said. A good hunt horse is a good hunt horse, no matter the breed. Some people just have preconceived notions about certain breeds.

[Equibrit]

It is the "member's" problem not your friend's. Find a polite way to tell 'em to blow it out their butt!
I have never met a hunter who did not value a good horse. The only Arabs that I have met have been really tough reliable rides for their not so capable riders in the hunt field. I have even witnessed one sliding himself back underneath his owner! In my opinion, the only problem some Arabs have is their owners who insist on making them up and wrapping them in cotton wool.

[asanders]

Lots of people are snarky about Arabs. I admit that sometimes I am, but I try to keep it friendly :D
--I just don't know why anybody would want one. :( I don't understand about Chihuahuas, crotch rocket motorcycles, or mullet hairdos, either, but to each his own.

If your friends horse is suitable, most people won't say a thing, or at most she'll get some good-hearted ribbing (which, if you have an Arab that hunts, I'm afaid you might have to take in stride). Anyone truely snarky deserves some well phrased comebacks about big and dumb ____ (add name of breed they're on here). Of course the best comeback is for the horse to do great :); that will likely shut those with less class up, and garner well deserved praise from anyone with sense.

[Acertainsmile]

Tell your friend to tell this person that she will promise to take those beautiful tassles off his bridle for the hunt...;)

[Gestalt]

Tell your friend to go and have fun. Her well mannered horse will be the "proof in the pudding". :) As for people with horse breed discrimination, I will bet you that they also discriminate against people too.

And the comment "I just don't know why anybody would want one" is not friendly snarky, it's stupid snarky. jmho

[JWB]

There are biases everywhere but in the hunt field, they don't count for squat. Though the TBs and draft crosses are more common, there is no reason why an Arab can't hunt. I hunted several arabs over the years and there was one in my hunt who was used for a whip horse for many years!

[Waterwitch]

She would be welcome to hunt in Iowa. On any given day here you will see Tennessee Walkers, Thoroughbreds, Quarter Horses, Highland Ponies, Paints, Irish Draughts/ISH, Arabs, Draft Crosses, Saddlebreds, Warmbloods, and even Marie the Percheron mule.

If it is sound, well behaved, and genus Equus (or hybrid thereof) - hunt it :)

[SLW]

That was not a nice way to make a potiental new member feel welcome eh?

What breed bias exist in my club are kept tightly concealed as members hunt Draft crosses, Foxtrotters and all other manner of equines. I've started hunting a QTR/Arab gelding I bought in late July and he has been a complete blast. Sure, he is keen but has no more forked ears or vigor than the TB's some members hunt. One member jokes with me that I hunt a QTR horse the first hour then my enthusiastic Arab the rest of the hunt. :)

And I'm in your camp Rt66- if it has manners, is safe and suitable for the hunt counrty, the breed does not matter.

[Trakehner]

Of course there are biases in the huntfield....so what?

Endurance...nope biases there..Oh? You don't ride an Arab, why not?

Dressage...nope, again no bias...Oh, where's his brand..and what are those funny spots on his butt...ICK!?

3-Day...again. openly welcoming everyone...except those TB people, their horses go too fast and are too sensitive...and they make our dumbloods look too slow on the x-country.

Every horse competition...OH, you ride a mule...ick, it'll scare little Meadow Muffin and Gustav's Himmelfarb IIIrd..no mules allowed...ICK Peasant!

"The best revenge is living well" Just go beat em' at their own game. I used to fox hunt a Saddlebred mare...we'd still be there after a 4-5 hour day and the master borrowed my mare more than once when his horse lost a shoe...she just kept going and going--she loved it.

...how you going to go on a hunt though and not get her feet wet? My arab hated getting her little hoofies damp:D...she learned.

[citydog]

I've hunted an Icelandic, and while he got some raised eyebrows and "Isn't that interesting" :rolleyes: comments at first, he was such a champ in the field that folks rapidly became openly admiring of him.

[Beverley]

Oh, you'll get snooty folk and/or idiots in just about every horse discipline. I hunted my $700 quarter horse for 20 years, back when the tb dominated the scene, and lightning didn't strike me. Gave more than one lead to a well bred tb over a trappy fence, and at age 21, after the finals of the NA field hunter championships, inquiries were made via intermediaries whether I'd part with him...to a well known lady who ONLY hunted fancy tbs.

Real Foxhunters don't care what you ride, so long as it gets the job done. Handsome is as handsome does.

I will observe, however, that no matter the breed, good turnout is essential. THAT is your homage to the traditions of hunting. For a long maned Arabian, French braid the mane to keep it tidy. For a draftie that you've spent years grooming those feathers on- no, don't sacrifice the fathers, but make sure they are glow in the dark clean (and if were me I'd Show Sheen the heck out of 'em to facilitate post hunt cleanup).

[Painted Wings]

The only proper horse to hunt is a paint. No one else is properly attired.

Gives new meaning to having colors.

I don't need no stinkin' colors, I already have my own, they are on my horse.


OMG, looking at photos I just realized we have someone on an Arab in our hunt

http://www.pbase.com/stl_don/image/104905558

I don't know what to do.

Seriously we have everything from QHs, to drafts, to Arabs and Saddlebreds. Even some of them there dumbloods. As long as they behave themselves who cares. You'll find most hunts that way. Unfortunately there are individuals that feel differently. They are just demonstrating their ignorance. Someone came out to Missouri last year from Virginia to look at hunt horses. I told her one of my paints was for sale, was quiet, and went well first flight. She said she could not possibly have a coloured horse at HER hunt (Orange County). So she bought at Tb that had only been a staff horse and now has him for sale a year later because he's not suitable to be in the field. I'll be there are people at Orange County hunting coloured horses. Actually I'd be interested to know that.

I would say that 90% of foxhunters don't care much what the horse looks like, just what it acts like. If it saves their butt in the hunt field it's a good breed and a good color.

[twofatponies]

I capped with a local hunt twice this year, on a Morgan mare who is an ex-Amish buggy horse. We got as spiffy as we could (she has a long mane, but no one else braided their horses, so it was not remarkable), and stuck with the hilltoppers (where there was an Appaloosa...) and no one said anything about breeds. Most everyone else had TBs or draft crosses - some looked like full drafts to me, too. Several people complimented her, too.

[Little Valkyrie]

Hey, I feel for your friend. I whip-in off of possibly the most discriminated against horse on the planet.....a 15.2hh Belgian/Appaloosa cross that I bought out of the Want Ad Digest. I get all sorts of "looks" from people, but he keeps me pretty safe and is learning his job very quickly. Last year I had a pretty fancy 3/4TB 1/4Clyde who had the potential to be an awesome horse (but has some serious mental baggage) who almost got me killed. Sure I got admiring glances from people becuase I was riding a 17hh gorgeous bay, but what good does that do me when my best friend had to come looking for me lying in the woods somewhere when I didn't return back to the meet? The people I respect in the hunt field like my new ugly horse much better because they know he's safe and useful, is not beautiful and fast. And as far as your friend is concerned, who wouldn't want to hunt an arab? They're small, quick, have great stamina, stay sound, are generally level-headed, and the ones I've known are very nice beasts!
I say, ignore all those people...they obviously need a stiffer stirrup cup. ;)

[LookinSouth]

Granted I've only just begun the hunting addiction but I agree with the majority here. IME most serious foxhunters would rather have a safe, quiet and sane horse out in the field than a fancy, schmancy hot house flower that blows it's top over a leaf drifting by.
People on sane, smart and well controlled horses get invited back to hunt. Those who are out of control and scary often do not. Breed and type of horse has little to do with either factor.

As long as the STAFF and member's that invited you are cordial and friendly I say go hunting! There are stuck up and snarky people everywhere. Who cares if one member has something against Arabs? IME those that can't stand Arabs do so cause they can't ride them:winkgrin:

[armandh]

there are exceptions good and bad in every breed.
the odds are better with breeds and crosses that are, more often than not, good hunters.
my first hunt horse was just a plain registered QH.
http://members.arstechnica.com/x/armandh2/over2.jpg
there are also plenty from every breed that won't do
and until you go no one knows how things will turn out.
so go and give it a try, show 'em what a beauty you have

[asb_own_me]

Of course the best comeback is for the horse to do great :); that will likely shut those with less class up, and garner well deserved praise from anyone with sense.

Well said, and applicable to virtually any situation, horsey or not!

I second Waterwitch in saying that you and your horse would be welcome to hunt in Iowa. I started the season on my 5 y/o Saddlebred, who's now unfortunately sidelined because he got kicked in the knee at home in the pasture. I had a few looks, a few "oh isn't he pretty" and I even heard one member to another, "he looks nice"....."let's see how he looks after an hour in the field". He looked just fine ;) I say go for it.

I do also agree with the person who commented on turnout. Your turnout is important. Leave anything that screams "breed show!" at home.

[Good Old Sledge]

They say a good horse is always the right color (except, apparently, with Orange County). It is also the right breed. If your turn-out is correct and your horse is properly behaved, the horse's breeding shouldn't factor in any more than your own - though there are old hunts around here where that will be discussed as well.
Some people get involved in hunting because there is no competition. Others, however, simply can't go through life without keeping score somehow. Since there's no score keeping in the field, they figure in the cost of your trailer, the smartness of your appointments and the breed of your horse to make themselves feel better about whatever dark demons they might be compensating for. Peace on 'em.
As Beverly said above, and the artist Snaffles long before her, "'Andsome is as andsome does."

[wateryglen]

Rt66! Tell your friend to just go! Success is the best revenge. Keep smiling and never let 'em see you sweat!! :yes:

I live in an area where there MAY be (:winkgrin:)some breed biases. In some cases; they are well deserved.. For example! Many hunt folks think you have to hunt a Tb. There's a good reason for this! In hunts where they cover a lot of country and fast and stay out long hours; breeds that are "bottomless" and have the energy & drive to keep going forward become valuable and necessary. That's good! Why wouldn't an endurance Arab be good at this!?

Some arab owners insist however on bringing out their nutty, hot, jazzed up horses and they turn them out in arabian show garb and long flowing manes or incorrect tack. This reinforces biases. Tack with bling is not proper for hunting. Respect for the sport dictates that we turn our horses out in flat english regular tack, regular english saddles etc. Of course this varies from hunt to hunt. But if you deviate from the norms; you invite scrutiny IMHO. Or even criticism.

So the answer is to bring out your horse; any horse; properly prepared & turned out, properly trained & conditioned and most of all.....develope a sense of humor!! Everyone loves a smile or laugh! Laughing at yourself wins friends for you & your horse. EVERYONE's horse does dumb stuff out there at sometime. If we don't laugh; we're taking it too seriously!

And a pox on those with snarky 'tudes and no sense of fun!!! :winkgrin:
BTW, in the photo above....which one is the arab!??!!! :D:lol:

[Tantivy1]

[QUOTE=Painted Wings;....I'll bet there are people at Orange County hunting coloured horses. Actually I'd be interested to know that.[/QUOTE]

Yes, there are. There is one strapping big paint gelding, an Irishbred or so I have been told, that has also regularly qualified for the Field Hunter Championships at least once. He goes exceptionally well across country, and is quite a popular horse to his many fans.

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

I have a haffie. Not your typical get out there and go breed. BUT, he's got a motor, loves the sport and is respectful. He's forward and brave; jumps the jumps with no problem. Heck, I have a hard time keeping him back rather than getting him forward!!
Typical we're not, but I can't tell you how many times people have come up to us admiring our bond and asking where they can get one (to hunt, mind you).
Have your friend enjoy her horse and don't pay mind to the naysayers. ;)

[Painted Wings]

I think in that photo I posted the link to, one was an Arab and I think the grey was an Anglo Arab. It's one of our social members and her daughter. They come out a couple of times a year and hilltop. They are very nice people and are always welcome.

Glad to know there are coloured horses at Orange County. I coudn't imagine there wouldn't be. I thought at the time it was probably a personal bias and the horse does have a lot of white and two blue eyes.

http://www.pbase.com/lesliegra/image/104830289

We actually have quite a few in our hunt. They are popular. Several staff horses too.

[SharonA]

Well, I think it's your friend who needs to remember her manners. In order to preserve the quality of the hunt, your friend with the Arab must accept that a given Arab most likely is not on the same level as most other horses.

Arabs are entirely on a level above, of course. Your friend should feel entirely entitled to say sweetly, "Oh, now, now; you mustn't be upset. I'm sure your horse will hunt as well as an Arab once your horse is alittle more fit and his brain is alittle more mature."

But only say this to the snarky woman. The other riders, and their lovely horses of all breeds, may be allowed to bask in the glory of your friend's Arab without having to compare themselves. ;););)

[Jaegermonster]

our huntsman hunted an arab for years ,and he was a wonderful huntsman's horse (RIP Omar). Personally I don't really care for them as a whole, but I have seen some really nice ones. And I'm not riding them.
I ride a TB mare, and I know lots of folks don't care for them either but they aren't riding her now are they?
As long as they (horse and rider) are turned out correctly and can get the job done it shouldn't matter.
I Only don't like it, as someone else posted, when folks bring out "unconventional" breeds to hunt and insist on putting the big bits and colored brow bands on their TWH or the long flowing manes or whatever. But that's just me, I would never say anything to anyone about their horse (unless it was doing something unsafe, like kicking or something) or make them feel badly about their horse.

[Beverley]

our huntsman hunted an arab for years ,and he was a wonderful huntsman's horse (RIP Omar).

I know an Arab named Omar who is huntsman's horse for a harrier pack in California. Maybe I should say 'the' harrier pack, only one in the US these days to my knowledge. Prior to that he was a whipper-in's horse at Red Rock.

[gkittredge]

I've hunted an Icelandic, and while he got some raised eyebrows and "Isn't that interesting" :rolleyes: comments at first, he was such a champ in the field that folks rapidly became openly admiring of him.

And you need to bring him out again!

[Daatje]

I have a 7 year old Friesian mare that I just started hunting this year. I too got a few inquisitive looks and one comment of "isn't that a high headed one". :D

But, she has proven herself so far (been out 5 times) by being manerly, honest, careful around the hounds, and truly seems to enjoy every aspect of the sport!

If the horse can do the job enjoyably and safely, what does it matter the breed, color, size, etc.? :) Your friend should go, have fun, and pay no heed to the snobbish comments about her Arabian. :)

Here is a pic or two of her:
http://www.freewebs.com/daatje2008/easycare%20daatje%20jump.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/daatje2008/easycare%20daatje%20jump%203.jpg
http://www.freewebs.com/daatje2008/easycare%20daatje%20canter%204%20crop.jpg

[bigbaytb]

a friend of mine, who sponsored me to join the hunt, has always hunted arabs. She loves them. she had a gelding for years (he died a couple years ago) that she hunted on. She does have a warmblood she hunts, but she prefers to use her 25 year old arab mare so she doesn't have to work so hard. The breed really shouldn't matter. i always think that if a horse does it's job well, it shouldn't matter what the papers say...(unless you're at a breed show). and usually, arabs have such endurance that they can run circles around most horses at the end of the hunt anyway..

[huntrpaint]

I know an Arab named Omar who is huntsman's horse for a harrier pack in California. Maybe I should say 'the' harrier pack, only one in the US these days to my knowledge. Prior to that he was a whipper-in's horse at Red Rock.
Are you talking about Ridgecrest, John Auburn? Good horse!!!

[Beverley]

Are you talking about Ridgecrest, John Auburn? Good horse!!!

Yes!

[IrishRydr]

I'm very partial to the breed I ride (the Irish Draught), but ultimately, pretty is as pretty does, and if your friend's Arab shows her a nice day in the field, than kudos to her and her beautiful horse!!!

[asb_own_me]

I have had two of my three American Saddlebreds out and they have both done great. I might get a few remarks at the beginning of the day, but anyone with half sense can appreciate a horse that is out there doing the job just as well as any other.