stallion owners: Time frame for the Live foal guarantee to be used by the mare owner?

[sporthorsefilly]

I am curious, what is the "normal" time period offered for a "live foal guarantee?" should the foal be born dead, or die within a short period of time?

As a mare owner, I often will have booked the next stallion before the foal arrives. In that case, does the stallion owner generally offer a "two year" LFG, to allow you to rebreed the following year?

Do some stallion owners only offer the LFG for the year in which the foal from their stallion is born?

This question is posed out of curiosity only.

[Equine Reproduction]

I think your wording is a bit confusing. Are you asking how long the foal must live to be considered a "live" foal? Or are you asking how long the stallion owner will give you to return for breeding if your mare doesn't conceive or your foal does not stand and nurse? If you are asking the latter, we give a three year right of return. If the former, we give a 72 hour stand and nurse. We figure it's difficult to determine if there are any issues with a foal in the first 24 hours and by 72 hours, you KNOW (at least usually) if there is something wrong with the foal. Obviously, in extenuating circumstances, we make exceptions. You have to. It's horse breeding!

Hope that helps!

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[sporthorsefilly]

Thanks Kathy, I will try to rephrase.

I was specifically asking how long most stallion owners allow for you to use the LFG if you lose a foal.

[FriesianX]

I'd add 3 years to the poll, I've worked with a few SOs who have a 3 year time built into their contracts. Usually for a mare that doesn't take, that is plenty of time to fix whatever is going on (and nice in case a mare slips a foal and you don't want to try late in the year, and you're already on year two).

[nsm]

For my stallions, LFG means until that mare owner gets a foal.

NM

[Fairview Horse Center]

For my stallions, LFG means until that mare owner gets a foal.

NM

I would pretty much agree with that, although my contract says 3 years. I have gone extra years with one person that had a foal die, and just didn't have the heart to breed back for a while. It was an auction breeding.

[STF]

Our contract says a 2 yr breed back, but...... Im very symathetic to mare owners as I have had some mares that are very difficult to get pregnant, so I dont hold that. I have even given free collections and shipping to a few that I felt horrible for that they missed ovulation or vet AI'd to early, whatever it was at the time. It hard enough to get a live foal, so I try to be helpful as possible. But, Im very relaxed compared to alot of other stallion owners.

[sporthorsefilly]

It is a pleasure to see how many Stallion Owners are really dedicated to their responsibilities and care as much about their horses as the people they work with!

[grayfox]

I do a LFG for as long as it takes.

[camohn]

Most are 2 years on paper but that is at the SOs discretion....most don't enforce it and want a happy MO as long as the MO is making a genuine effort with good marecare etc.
Edgar let me go 3 years on one....mare took 1st year and had a stillborn foal, would not take on a rebreed the following year/was retired and let me subsitute a different mare the third year and finally got a healthy foal.

[pintopiaffe]

Yep, mine is 3 years, at 2+ I may request/require certain things (i.e. biopsy in addition to culture, certain steps or use of timing protocols...) and I don't have it right in front of me, but I have wording about swapping mares too. In the third year I also think if I remember right, I have the 'right' to ask for a booking fee.

I really don't plan to ask for any of that, but they are there so that if I end up with either a clueless mareowner or vet, I have some recourse other than my time and $$$ going down a drain...

I also have a clause voiding the LFG if the breeding results in twins (lost) and there were not appropriate ultrasounds. If you u/s and didn't see the twins, that's one thing. If you never u/s for twins, I'm not going to let you do that again, at least with my stallion... :no:

[goodpony]

Our LFG stipulates three years, but if asked we'd likely extend our guarantee for as long as it takes and are flexible when it comes to substitutions.

[aspenlucas]

I voted two years but my contract doesn't have a time limit, and you can substitute mares if you want, or use your paid stud fee toward the purchase of one of my foals if you just can't get one, I did have one owner do that.

[Blue Moon]

Why would any stallion owner put a time limit on it? If you are going to say "live foal guaranteed" in your contract, that ought to mean that you keep trying until the mare owner gets a live foal, no matter how long it takes. If what you really mean is "I'll send you semen (or breed your mare) as many times as you want within a two-year time span, but if you don't get a foal, too bad" then for goodness sake don't use the words "live foal guaranteed" in your contract or advertising! A "guarantee" means you WILL get that thing.

I guess I'm used to the TB world where "live foal guarantee" means you don't even pay the stud fee until you get a foal. No foal, no fee. When they say "no guarantee" then the fee is paid up front, and there are no guarantees (although most stallion owners will re-breed the mare during that same year if she doesn't take). A no-guarantee fee is, naturally, much cheaper than a live foal guarantee fee, since the breeder is taking all the risk.

[Equilibrium]

I guess I'm used to the TB world where "live foal guarantee" means you don't even pay the stud fee until you get a foal. No foal, no fee. When they say "no guarantee" then the fee is paid up front, and there are no guarantees (although most stallion owners will re-breed the mare during that same year if she doesn't take). A no-guarantee fee is, naturally, much cheaper than a live foal guarantee fee, since the breeder is taking all the risk.[/QUOTE]


That would depend Blue Moon on what stud you are dealing with. I have ones that make you pay when foal stands and nurses and ones that are due October 1st the year the mare is bred. But I've never know stallion owners who didn't let you pay "around" the time is due. Simply because with TB's if they aren't registered, you can't race or sell at TB sales.

Terri

[Equine Reproduction]

Why would any stallion owner put a time limit on it? If you are going to say "live foal guaranteed" in your contract, that ought to mean that you keep trying until the mare owner gets a live foal, no matter how long it takes.

I'll bite on this one as I was actually going to respond earlier with why there is a time limit. Most mare owners make heroic efforts to get their mare in foal and will do everything possible to accomplish that. And, most mare owners once they have that foal on the ground do everything possible to protect it and keep it safe. However, I think it's safe to say that most stallion owners have had the client from...well...the nether regions who have been less than diligent. For example, we had a client a few years back that would order semen, I kid you not, at 4 o'clock in the afternoon the day she needed it shipped! The first time, we jumped through every hoop possible (you had until 4:30 to get it to UPS- small town, next UPS or FedEx drop location was 75 miles away) and managed to get it out which included begging UPS to wait just a few minutes while we filled out paperwork. BEGGED the client to order sooner if needed on next cycle. Next cycle, same thing. Asked the client if a culture and cytology had been done. Nope. Vet said it wasn't necessary because mare was maiden. <rolling eyes>. Managed to get the semen out again, but told the client two things...one, that if the mare didn't settle, a culture and cytology would be required before another cycle would be sent and two, if the request for semen wasn't placed by 1 p.m. (remember, this is the DAY that they need semen...no prior heads up) semen would not go out. Next cycle rolls around and same thing happens again. Refuse to ship semen. Vet calls and proceeds to $%^&ch me out for dictating how this mare "should" be managed. I stand by it and tell him that I'm sorry, but it states in my contract that a culture AND cytology are supposed to be performed BEFORE the first insemination or the contract is null and void. I tell him that I'm not voiding the contract, but that I am requiring the C&C. Lo and behold, mare comes up with a pathogen. They decide to wait until the next year to breed. Fine with me. They treat and lo and behold, they order semen the next year and by 3 pm. no less <rolling eyes>. At least it isn't the chaotic run that it had been the previous time. Mare settles!! Woo hoo!!!! Or so I think. Next year, get a frantic phone call from mare owner. Mare foaled in her run in shed next to the barbed wire fence (Oh God!). The foal laid down next to the barbed wire fence and apparently when it went to get up, got tangled in it and literally took one of its front legs off - it was just hanging by a piece of flesh. Sometimes, having that out to prevent one from having to repeatedly send semen in a situation that is just...well...bad, is a life saver. Wanna know what made this one even worse? It was a donated auction breeding and at that time, I included the collection.

There will always be extenuating circumstances. Having the option to end something that is going horribly wrong can be a Godsend. Rebecca Pennington a few years back lost her Mannhattan foal to literally a fluke infection. The foal was several months old and I had certainly fulfilled any contractual obligation. However, I gave her a re-breed. It was the right thing to do and Rebecca is also someone that does everything right! A stallion owners dream! We almost never hold to that three year contractual agreement, but there are times when you really, really need that safety net.


If what you really mean is "I'll send you semen (or breed your mare) as many times as you want within a two-year time span, but if you don't get a foal, too bad" then for goodness sake don't use the words "live foal guaranteed" in your contract or advertising! A "guarantee" means you WILL get that thing.

No...it means that you have three years to get a live foal. If your mare doesn't produce a foal or your mare does foal and the foal doesn't live, in most cases, you get to re-breed. There's just a time limit on how long you have to try. And, I think you'll find that 99.9% of stallion owners don't hold their clients feet to the fire except in extenuating circumstances (see above). I know I don't. But, there has to be a way to put an end to something that isn't going well, for all parties concerned!

I guess I'm used to the TB world where "live foal guarantee" means you don't even pay the stud fee until you get a foal. No foal, no fee.

Big difference. In the TB industry, you don't get papers which are highly necessary and highly desirable if you don't pay. For many warmblood people, they really don't care if there are papers. Most shows that they are going to compete at don't require them.

I changed my contract to three years specifically because there are times when things just don't go according to plan and I've got a couple that are going on their fifth year because the mare owner lost the mare or the mare was found to be breeding unsound, etc. Hopefully that helps to explain things a bit better.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[camohn]

There was only one MO where I did not bend over backwards to be helpful and that was a lady that (in spite of it being in the contract) kept trying to breed her mare and refused to get a culture on her mare "because it was too expensive" etc. and I refused to keep collecting the man when she would not do the basic healthcare on the mare. That is a rare exception though. By far most MOs are smart enough not to throw away collection fees on a mare they won't culture or silly things like that.....but having it in writing does give you and out to refuse endless service to the occasional nutty MO.

[ilikridn]

Eq Rep... I sucked in air on that one... a leg cut off by barbwire? :::shudder::: that poor baby :no:

[Fairview Horse Center]

For example, we had a client a few years back that would order semen, I kid you not, at 4 o'clock in the afternoon the day she needed it shipped!

I have had a few of those. One of those times was a few days after the death of my mother. The call came in about 4:30. I was supposed to be 40 miles away, thru traffic by 6:30 to receive friends and family payng their respects at the Funeral home. Luckily my cousins were with me, so I was able to collect, and had to ask them to wait for it, and drop it off at FedEx on their way to the hotel to change for the Funeral home. I guess I am one of the people that truly was late to their mother's funeral.

Next year, get a frantic phone call from mare owner. Mare foaled in her run in shed next to the barbed wire fence (Oh God!). The foal laid down next to the barbed wire fence and apparently when it went to get up, got tangled in it and literally took one of its front legs off - it was just hanging by a piece of flesh. Sometimes, having that out to prevent one from having to repeatedly send semen in a situation that is just...well...bad, is a life saver.

One mare owner called to say her mare must have "reabsorbed" & actually blamed it on my stallion. She said she noticed her bagging up about a month before, and made arrangements to take her to a foaling facility a few weeks later. She was delayed taking her because of a blizzard and could not get the trailer out.

During this blizzard, the mare lived out. She finally arrived at the foaling facility on what was day #329. They immediately checked her as she did not look pregnant. Nope. She said my stallion must cause mares to reabsorb "some time during their pregnancy".

When I pointed out that she appeared pregnant and bagging up around day 300, she was most likely still in foal. I told her that at that point, she probably had a viable foal with assistance. I asked her about the blizzard, and she admitted that one morning during that blizzard, the mare seemed very reluctant to come in with her buddies for morning feeding. She never thought to look at that point, but admitted they had quite a few foxes in the area. :( Between the cold and foxes, the baby never had a chance.

[ilikridn]

Oh, I really can't stand to hear any more of these. I hate Stupid People... how do you SOs do it??? Ugh.

[Equine Reproduction]

how do you SOs do it??? Ugh.

<lol>...We put time limits on our contracts!! But seriously, the vast majority of mare owners are absolutely phenomenal to deal with. Truly. I think most clauses are put in there to prevent abuses. People always have the option of NOT enforcing them.

Kathy St.Martin
Equine Reproduction Short Courses
http://www.equine-reproduction.com

[ilikridn]

Well it's good to know that these types are few and far between. Those stories just broke my heart.

[Edgar]

Anybody who paid for a breeding deserves a foal in my opinion as most mareowners do whatever is needed to get their mare pregnant. I do have a 3 yr LFG limit in my agreement for if I needed to put a stop to it for reasons like mentioned above but with thousands of breedings under our belt it has never happened yet. Because we realy mean the first "Anybody who paid for a breeding deserves a foal" sentence we also have a 30 day survival/evaluation time rather than 72hr stand and suck in the agreement.

4.30 pm orders may cause me a heart attack at some point while trying to get them out on time but we have done several and seldom failed. Sometimes making it work is a bit of a challenge and adrenaline rush but we always try.

[not again]

I choose to honor all live foal guarantees until someone gets a live foal. Please, however, let me know the circumstances so we can work together to get that live foal on the ground. We have also bent the live foal rule to cover weanlings etc. when extenuating circumstances warrant.
Most of all we want to see our stallions' get out there successfully performing as they were genetically planned to do, with happy riders.

[Fairview Horse Center]

We have also bent the live foal rule to cover weanlings etc. when extenuating circumstances warrant.

My current contract says 30 days, but I also have offered a re-breed for up to a year, and will be changing my contract to reflect that as long as the loss of the foal was not due to neglect.

I don't think anyone is going to see the kind of support offered here by the stallion owners in the US by any European frozen semen stallions.

[Hi Jump]

For the benefit of mare owners understanding some of the stallion management side of the question, I would like give some information so they have a better understanding of what the stallion management has to consider with the booking of mares to performance stallions. There is a huge investment promoting stallions, but even more progressing them in sport. Every year managing Cotopaxi for example, there has been more and more demands both on the breeding side and the performance side, he did over 10 full weeks of travelling to week long shows during breeding season and we only blocked out breeding dates two weeks showing at Spruce Meadows where rules pertaining to leaving the grounds make onsite collection incredibly expensive for the mare owner. There are also FEI requirements that the horse remain on the show grounds 24 hours before a grand prix. We accomodated all other breeding requests and let mare owners know in advance the only two weeks he would be unavailable. We are routinely trucking out of shows to collect for breeding , sometimes before or after classes and it makes horse shows very long days with multlple stallions, day after day, week after week.

We collect on call , as the mareowner requires, no limitations to set days. So if when we book breedings for a year , we have a good idea of the stress load on the horse and ourselves during a season that makes 'Survivor' look sedentary and lasts from February through September : )

There will always be the situation where mares will carry over to the next season, and if our stallions sat at home that would not have a critical impact, but say for Cotopaxi competing at grand prix in showjumping, every consecutive year has been more demanding and we have to limit his book. Breedings carrying over for many years in this suituation have an impact. So mare owners have a very extensive and clearly worded contract , we used to give a three year term, and have had to shorten it to two years for these very reasons. However , there are those out there that know we will bend over backwards to assist a diligent breeder who has had bad luck or a returning breeder who just needs an extra year in their needs of their own breeding program.

Our LFG allows for the substitution of a mare , upon our consent, which is also to give options to the mare owner . Most stallions owners are mare owners as well, and they are cognizant of the needs of their mareowners and most established stallion owners do work diligently to help achieve a successful conception.

I hope that helps to enlighten some to the perspective of bookings and LFG terms in the case of performance oriented stallions.

Synergy Sporthorses
Home to Holstein Cotopaxi and Hanoverian Raffaello
http://www.synergysporthorses.net

[not again]

There is no crystal ball for stallion owners to know which mare owner is going to have a difficult mare and/or be difficult to deal with. If anyone has a clause to cover that in their contract, please let us all know!!!!

[Sonesta]

Equine-Reproduction wrote:
There will always be extenuating circumstances. Having the option to end something that is going horribly wrong can be a Godsend. Rebecca Pennington a few years back lost her Mannhattan foal to literally a fluke infection. The foal was several months old and I had certainly fulfilled any contractual obligation. However, I gave her a re-breed. It was the right thing to do and Rebecca is also someone that does everything right! A stallion owners dream! We almost never hold to that three year contractual agreement, but there are times when you really, really need that safety net.

Yes, and I didn't even ASK for a rebreeding. When Kathy heard about the loss of this gorgeous colt, she contacted ME and offered the rebreeding. Now, that is class!

[Tiki]

we give a 72 hour stand and nurse. We figure it's difficult to determine if there are any issues with a foal in the first 24 hours and by 72 hours, you KNOW (at least usually) if there is something wrong with the foal. Obviously, in extenuating circumstances, we make exceptions. You have to. It's horse breeding!
I lost a foal a couple of years ago that was bred with European frozen semen. No LFG. He was born early and very dysmature. He could not stand and nurse. He had to go to a neonatal facilty for supportive care. He actually did get better day by day. He went to surgery on the 7th day to repair an ulcer on his urachus. When they opened him up, they found that his intestine was dead as far as they could see into the intestine and he had to be put down. He couldn't possibly have survived without his intestine. They said it was probably clostridial damage, but he was in veterinary care from the time he was born until he died - and I'm still paying for it.

I had a colt born, oh, at least a decade ago, by a stallion from one of the top breeding farms in the country. He had an LFG. The LFG said he had to stand and nurse within 24 hours of birth, and they meant it!!!!! He did stand and nurse, but only with significant help. He also cost me a fortune. He had to have surgery for an infected urachus, but too late - as the vet who had been caring for him since birth very strongly denied there was ever a problem and refused to properly check him. In the meantime, too bad, so sad, tough luck on a live foal. Instead I wound up with a foal with joint ill and permanent damage to his knee, who could never be anything but a pasture pet. And this under (horrible) veterinary care with an vet who has been my ex-vet ever since that day.

I really applaud SO's who do realize that a foal can have unknown problems at birth. A friend of mine lost her foal this year at 10 days, I think it was. The foal had a severe pneumonia, pleurisy and lung abscesses but never, ever showed any symptoms until she crashed at about 7 days. She was born with it and that's all she ever knew so she never showed any signs.

We take the absolute best care of our horses and have learned the hard way which vets to work with, and even then something can go wrong. I think we'll only work with SO's who really mean it on the LFG from now on.

Breeding is hard enough, expensive enough and can be heart wrencing enough without losing everything.

What happens if there is noted to be something wrong with the foal by 72 hours and the owner tries her best to save the foal but it goes over 72 hours and the foal still doesn't make it? For those that offer 30 days, I expect that would not include accidents or neglect. I guess with the SO's it becomes a matter of judgement and circumstances.

[Fairview Horse Center]

For those that offer 30 days, I expect that would not include accidents or neglect. I guess with the SO's it becomes a matter of judgement and circumstances.

My contract says 30 days, and I am about to extend it to a year. That definitely includes accidents, but not neglect. A neglect call, I will have to leave up to the breeder's veteriarian. I have a breeder this year that lost her baby at 2-3 months to a horrible accident. She knows I will honor the breeding as long a my stallion is fit to breed.

I also will apply the stud fee to any purchase of one of my youngsters.

[sporthorsefilly]

I want to thank all of you fantastic stallion owners for your input. This is very helpful and tells who truly care about their reputations and the happiness of the mare owners.

What class many of you have shown, and I know it is really appreciated.

Having lost a foal to sepsis at around 50 hours of age, it is nice to know that there are good stallion owners out there who actually care.

More than this I will not add.

[Mythology]

Being a multiple MO that has a very good friend that owns stallions and a stallion station, I see both sides of this story. MOST mare owners try to be polite and gracious giving appropriate time between a call for semen and the actual need for semen, understanding that while MOs breed as a hobby (meaning also have a job), most stallion owners stand stallions as their ONLY monitary income. This means if they don't make enough money to pay for all the costs of horses (and we know how they are) but the stallions as well (showing, training, AV, vet costs, etc.) they don't eat. And I know SO's that go through the winter wondering where their next weeks groceries will come from.
They collect and send semen over and over and over again hoping that the MO's vet is functional ( and we all know some vet's arn't that great). If a MO isn't a vet tech or a breeding specialist how do they know how big a follicle should be with fresh semen vs frozen, if the mare should be flushed afterword, what to do if the flush is dirty, etc. They rely on the vet, as they should.
I know how the horse buisness works, I know sometimes semen isn't up to snuff, I also know that when there is a problem sometimes everyone blames the person who isn't there, i.e. trainer, Stallion, etc.
MOST SO's try their darndest to make MO happy and give them a foal. Sometimes they can go above and beyond, sometimes they just can't. MOST MO's understand that they are supposed to abide by the contract and if the SO goes above and beyond to take that gift and be happy, not ask for an inch and take a mile.
Just remember we all do this because we love horses, but it's a hard buisness of love and loss. Try to stand in the other person's shoes (MO's and SO's) and feel the pressures they have on them.:)

[STF]

Anybody who paid for a breeding deserves a foal in my opinion as most mareowners do whatever is needed to get their mare pregnant. I do have a 3 yr LFG limit in my agreement for if I needed to put a stop to it for reasons like mentioned above but with thousands of breedings under our belt it has never happened yet. Because we realy mean the first "Anybody who paid for a breeding deserves a foal" sentence we also have a 30 day survival/evaluation time rather than 72hr stand and suck in the agreement.

4.30 pm orders may cause me a heart attack at some point while trying to get them out on time but we have done several and seldom failed. Sometimes making it work is a bit of a challenge and adrenaline rush but we always try.


Dear Edgar....
You have held a breeding for me for over 5 yrs now. You are honestly one of the best and easiest stallion owners I have ever worked with.
And, I wont do a 4pm "hurry and collect" call on ya either. ;) Unless I was feeling really onery and then maybe just as a joke to hear you grumble at me. LOL
*kidding*

[STF]

I want to thank all of you fantastic stallion owners for your input. This is very helpful and tells who truly care about their reputations and the happiness of the mare owners.

What class many of you have shown, and I know it is really appreciated.

Having lost a foal to sepsis at around 50 hours of age, it is nice to know that there are good stallion owners out there who actually care.

More than this I will not add.


Im sorry you lost your foal. :(

[sporthorsefilly]

Naturally, questions are always prompted by experiences. I lost a septic foal this year, with expenses of nearly $3000...this is the answer from the stallion owner:

"your foal was born alive. That fulfills the LFG of the contract. Anyway, the second year was 08, and you didn't use the rebreed."

I felt this was very cold indeed, considering that the stallion owner "offered the LFG" but only if it was used in '08.

Live and learn. Buyer beware!

It certainly makes me feel much better to know that there are good WB stallion owners who care about the foals, and the mare owners too.

Can't get over the sympathetic empathy of "your foal was born alive" so after that to h*ll with you.

[Mythology]

I'm trying to understand what happend...
you lost your foal after the 24hrs, called the SO, the SO said they'd give you a free re-breed anyway this year, you said "no" you wanted it next year? Why not use the free rebreed this year?

[ASBJumper]

Ok, sporthorsefilly - now you have crossed the line as you have made it clear this question was based on your '08 experience and therefore everybody can simply do a search and figure out which stallion owner you're talking about. This is almost as bad as the poster who came on and bashed Lisa Paulson and her LFG contract.

An LFG is a guarantee for a live, healthy foal (stands & nurses without assistance) within x number of years. You got that. Anything the SO offered (and she did offer you something) after that was over and above her contractual obligations, as the LFG had been honored - you got a lovely filly who stood and nursed without assistance. Period.

Now, yes, there have been 3 stallion owners on this thread who have said they would extend the LFG should something happen to the foal within a short (or even longer!) period. That's wonderful, generous, and totally their prerogative. But that is most certainly NOT something that is "owed" to mare owners. There are plenty of stallion owners who would sympathize, perhaps offer a discount or a partial refund, but not *necessarily* a whole other free stud fee.

That said, you WERE offered a free re-breed - for this year, even though the LFG had been honored as per the contract. You declined.

Live and learn indeed - folks, if you don't like the terms of a contract, don't sign it.

[Fairview Horse Center]

The stud fee just helps to pay expenses to stand a stallion. Few of us are really making money doing this. The loss of a foal is just as devastating to me as it is to the mare owner as that is a walking, breathing future advertisement for my stallion, and even myself/farm. Those are pictures I won't get, and updates I won't receive. Those are bragging calls about wins I won't be able to answer, that put a grin on my face, and lift my heart. A baby lost this year may have been a Rolex competitor that I will never get to go watch. I WANT that baby alive and showing off who he/she IS! It is not just about me being nice, it is about me wanting to get back what I lost too.

That said, each stallion owner has to write their contract to do what THEY are comfortable with, according to their situation.

[Mythology]

Now I know the SO your taliking about and she has been nothing but understanding and kind to me and everyone I know. I know of MO's that have called her at 3am when their horse was foaling to ask for guidance, she was there for everyone of those calls, even when they wern't in foal to her stallion. She gives breeding advice to anyone who asks even though it's taken her years of study to become so proficent at insemination, bloodlines, and foaling. She offered you a free rebreed and you turned up your nose at it? I am very sorry your foal passed away. However she went above and beyond to give you another foal for free and you're here publicly sullying her good name.