Why do you want them so big?? [Archive]

shakeytails

Oct. 23, 2008, 07:53 PM

MistyBlue

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:00 PM

Buyers want big horses. So the market demands them. Many buyers think/hear they require something 16.2hh-17hh and bigger in order to "make the strides" or "get the big movement" or to "be competitive."

caevent

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:02 PM

Agreed! Considering the fact that the majority of US riders are ladies, we should be showcasing horses in the 15.2hh-16.2hh. I ride a lot of horses, and most over 16.2hh range are not quite as "sports car" as the smaller types. :cool:

BeastieSlave

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:07 PM

Personally, I like that a big horse makes me feel petite ;)

I like the way a big horse takes up my leg and that little extra hang time when it moves (OMG, I love a big ground-covering trot!). Of course, these things are available in a smaller beastie - just not as often. I enjoy a small horse with big horse qualities, but there's something about the big ones that call to me. Yes, my last two 'just mine' beasties were over 17hh and I expect my yearling to be 17+hh too.

I'm over my sports car phase. I appreciate a nice land yacht now.

Waterwitch

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:08 PM

I agree with you shakeytails. I shudder when I hear breeders bragging about how tall their weanlings and yearlings are...as if that is an indication of quality and not a giant red flag :eek:

MaresNest

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:10 PM

Got to be careful. This could turn into a trainwreck. But I'll bite anyway ;)

I think people like big horses for a variety of reasons, but the most primal of them is (in my opinion) that we are attracted to the majesty of horses. Bigger horses are more awe inspiring. Also, as a nation, we are getting bigger and bigger ourselves. While it may not be a problem for a 16 hand horse to carry a heavy-ish rider, that rider will feel like s/he looks better on a bigger horse. And, as we showed with SUV's before gas became expensive, Americans are drawn to big things. There's a little bit of Texas in all of us.

However, I do think you're right that the big guys are more likely to be unsound. They are certainly more likely to develop OCD and/or Wobbler's Syndrome. And I think that Eight Belles' size probably had something to do with her tragic breakdown. (Probably shouldn't have brought up Eight Belles. I think I just increased the likelihood of a trainwreck.)

FWIW, my 4 horses range from 14.2 to 16h. My three year old, who I had hoped would end up around 16-16.2, is probably going to top out around 15.2. Que sera sera. She's awesome anyway. :)

Rhyadawn

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:14 PM

I don't understand it. I saw an add a few days ago for a yearling who was 16.0, another that was 16.3! That is a lot of growth for a baby. I personally like a horse that I can get on from the ground without a mounting block.

But it is what the market demands, therefor it is what is being bred.

TrueColours

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:15 PM

In the case of my weanling filly, she is out of a 16.1hh mare by a 16.1hh stallion

She is still with her dam so "shares" breakfast and dinner with her, out of the same feed tub

They get fed Buckeye 12% Alfa Gro N Win, 16% Growth and 8% Trifecta plus free choice 2nd cut alfalfa hay. The mare tends to lose a lot of weight when she has a foal at her side, so the Trifecta is a high fat formulation (12% fat) which she needs to maintain her body condition

The hay is excellent and balanced out with their grain ration, they are probably getting in the 15-16% protein range - max - which I believe is optimum for a lactating mare and the foal at her side and isnt excessive by any means.

Short of muzzling her, the baby only gets a smallish portion of the dam's feed so I am by no means stuffing her or giving her anything extra in her very own feed tub - she is what she is genetically and I am not OVER feeding her to get her to this stage. She came out huge from the minute she was born and this combination tends to throw big foals (her full sister is 17hh as a 4 year old) so I am not quite sure what I COULD do to slow down her growth even if I wanted to do so ...

pintopiaffe

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:19 PM

My ArabX's are much, MUCH smaller as weanlings through 2yo or so... and they don't put on their bulk until they are past 6. And yet mature height can be in the 16h range.

I found it interesting to compare my one mare's Sempatico colt with her colt by my stallion. The Tico colt was HUGE as a weanling and yearling, and may just top out around 16h. (she was a big, old style 16h herself) My colt by my stallion is much, much smaller as a yearling & 2yo, but will probably top out much the same. He's laying down bone right now like CRAZY, and his body has just bulked exponentially--though his height isn't budging just now. The Tico kid is doing some easy baby hunters as a 3yo, I don't expect to TOUCH the 1/2 brother next year as a 3yo... perhaps, MAYBE some very light learning-to-lunge-and-wear-tack next FALL.

Now, he is an August baby too, vs a May baby. I'm not entirely sure yet how much that has to do with it. The May baby out of my big bay mare was a very large weanling/yearling... though at 2 this year he looks like a yearling still. I've never used that stallion before, so I don't know if it's from the stallion line, or if it's an early vs. late foal thing. Most of her other foals were July-December. They were much, much slower to mature.

I also wonder if it's a climate or location thing. The CSM filly I got from DaydreamBeliever was pretty scrawny and heinous this summer... now she is blooming... but compared to her full siblings, she is much slower in growth... so I wonder if it's my forage/climate/etc. (DB's are pretty much full turnout too, so it's not the 24/7 thing, but might be the climate/soil/forage... ) It will be interesting to see, as she was an April foal, but then moved Nawth. I believe she'll end up quite the same... but how long it takes to get there will be really, really interesting, since we've got a 'control' group now of 3 full sibs in different climates. (two in VA, one in Ireland :winkgrin: ) I *think* I'm closer to the Ireland climate, except of course, for winter... :uhoh: :lol:

shakeytails

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:25 PM

I had/have NO intentions of starting a trainwreck.

I was just wondering how these babies are so huge. I realize at least some of it is genetics, but some measurements I've seen seem to indicate a push for fast growth, which IMO is unhealthy. Kinda like the QH lady up the road from me that feeds her babies about 4X what I feed mine- she thinks mine are thin, I guess they are next to hers that I think are hog-fat. But at least I can say I've never had lameness problems in my youngsters.

I grow my babies on free choice grass hay and pasture, 14% nothing special feed, a bit of calf manna, and yeast. I don't push at all for fast growth or extra body fat.

pintopiaffe

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:26 PM

Sorry... unrelated thoughts, so posted again rather than edit...

Alerich was 16h. Of course, Touch of Class was 15.2 or 3. Seldom Seen & Teddy round out my list of Iconic heroes. I think 'murkins definitely have a 'need a big horse' mentality, when a smaller, 'suitably sized' horse would do just as well. My guy is very slightly too small for me, more in body than type. At my current weight. When I get to goal, no one's going to ever think he's small. His son is perhaps, MAYBE an inch bigger, but has more bone, and a different neck set, and everyone thinks he's MUCH bigger. I felt HUGE on my 16h, leggy, lanky, elegant-as-hell, 'modern type' mare, and was looking to cross her to draft thinking I *needed* that for a suitable mount. Thank GOD I discovered a teacher with baroque horses. :lol:

There's not a thing wrong with the big guys, but I far, FAR prefer a cobby, great moving 15h to a 16.2 lanky, leggy horse. Just me and my body type. I think that's part of the appeal of GRP--all the movement and body, without the height. :winkgrin: We have them here already, some great QHs, Morgans, Welshies.... ArabXs...

Ladybug Hill

Oct. 23, 2008, 08:30 PM

I have seen a lot of 17 hand horses really only measure about 16.2. It can be frustrating when shopping. You have to have a good measuring stick and level hard ground.

My yearling is currently 15.1 1/2 hands but I expect her to slow down significantly now. My weanling is 13.3 hands. I put little stock in what size they are until they are at least 3 and expect that they will grow some after that as well.

HSGF

Oct. 23, 2008, 09:42 PM

My colt this year is just big healthy boy! He is 6 months old and just under the 14 h.h mark..... I am in no way ,shape or form pushing for him to grow bigger/faster. He is on a balanced diet has been since day one.
I have my hay tested and I have a wonderful Buckeye rep help me balance my herd properly every year a new hay is cut.

My colt is on Buckeye Alfa Grown N Win balancer and on a mixed hay(Timothy/Alfalfa mix).

His dam is 16.2h.h and his sire is 16.3h.h...........

sometimes you can't stop genetics.;)

Samotis

Oct. 23, 2008, 09:49 PM

My 8 month old is a little over 14 hands and I feed him exactly what the Progressive Nutrition rep tells me! He gets free choice Bermuda, pasture and his Grass Balancer.

Yes he is big, but I didn't breed him with plans to get a monster! His mother is 15.3 and father is 17 hands. He will probably be 16.3!

There are a lot of huge warmblood stallions out there that are fab quality, so size just comes with that. There are very few of quality that are under 16.2.

Now quarter horses are different altogether! Those halter horse at 1 and 2 are wayyyyyy to fat in my opinion. They have a hard time staying sound and that is for good reason. They want them to mature too early in my opinion.:(

Daydream Believer

Oct. 23, 2008, 09:59 PM

Oh...I'm a small horse lover! I am also baffled by the pursuit of large mega sized equines. Each to their own I guess! I am 5'4" and used to think I needed a 16 hand horse. I rescued a 13:3 hand mustang and fell in love with his rideability and his extreme sportiness! He felt like a much larger horse but he was so much easier to ride, get on and off and I never felt small on him. I find that to be true of my Colonial Spanish horse also... a large horse feel in a smaller package and so much easier to ride.

I also very rarely have seen or heard of developmental problems in our breed as with most other smaller breeds of horses. I am sure it's possible to screw one up but in general they are a lot easier to raise than the larger breeds.

Jaime...I find our babies really shoot up pretty fast here in VA. They hit 80% size at 1 year easily and then grow until 4 or so for height. Friends for S. Dakota say that theirs grow slower so you may be very right that climate has some effect on growth rates in the same breed. How tall is Sky right now? I can measure her sisters from her crop that I still have and we can compare.

Her full sister, Promise, was 14 hands this Spring at 2 years old. Not sure what she is now but I can measure her when I think to. I think she'll end up around 14:2...about perfect IMO!

goodmorning

Oct. 23, 2008, 09:59 PM

So I just saw the largest 5-month TB old I have ever seen - he looks like a well-developed large pony :eek: His mom is 17.1h and built like a mack-truck, but the sire is barely 15.3h. I would say this colt was around 14-14.1 - I've mostly seen WB foals this year, and was totally in shock by the amount of bone, muscle, and overall look of this guy. Too large for my taste, but impressive - I could see a buyer catching their eye on a colt as this big, attractive youngster! :yes:

TrueColours

Oct. 23, 2008, 10:23 PM

I could see people taking exception to owners treadmilling these babies, or feeding them Fat Cat or the plant steroids trying to muscle them up for shows or sales or something but when I see my filly in the stall beside her dam, its literally like seeing 2 full grown horses in there together!

She's another one that is just huge through the body, super well developed and muscled up already and just a very big girl especially for a TB filly!

My 2 year old perlino TB filly is sitting at a solid 16.2hh++ right now and she is massive through the body - she looks more like a WB stallion than a TB filly. She gets fed 1 1/4 lbs twice a day of the Buckeye 12% protein Alfa Gro N Win and hay and thats it other than carrots and apples. I think her dam was 16hh and her sire 16.3hh. I bet she will finish up every bit of 17-17.2+ at maturity. So - she's another one that is not being stuffed with high protein feed and she just keeps growing and growing and growing ...

Maybe she's sneaking out at night to the Chinese Food place up the road - I have NO idea - but she is turning out to be one very big girl ...

Kinsella

Oct. 23, 2008, 10:29 PM

MaresNest

Oct. 23, 2008, 11:49 PM

Jaime...I find our babies really shoot up pretty fast here in VA. They hit 80% size at 1 year easily and then grow until 4 or so for height. Friends for S. Dakota say that theirs grow slower so you may be very right that climate has some effect on growth rates in the same breed.

Based on my very limited experience, I think that they grow more when it's warm and the grass is growing. I reckon there's a longer growing season in VA than SD.

FLIPPED HER HALO

Oct. 23, 2008, 11:53 PM

My colt is definately built like his mom (16.2h TB). She is big boned and not built like your typical TB. He has a lot of bone like her and is wide. He has big joints and the vets said he will be big. From what I've seen, most Sempaticos tend to be big and more stout, definately not the fine boned narrow type.

He gets grass hay and 1lb of Nutrena Youth a day. I have irrigated pastures.

Soundness wise - all my TB's have been over 16.1 hands. I had a 17.2 hand TB that was STILL racing at the age of 10. He was still winning and was a multiple stakes placed horse. I gave him a new career from racing and retrained him in dressage. He was huge and had A LOT of bone like my mare does.

BeastieSlave

Oct. 24, 2008, 05:05 AM

My yearling is definitely his mother's child. She's over 17hh (really!) and he was big from the beginning. Everything about him is big - he has tons of bone. He wasn't planned to be huge and I'm not feeding him or doing anything special to make him bigger. He's just the product of a nice, but big mare and a decent sized stallion. This same mare's foal from this year is not so big. I freely admit to being drawn to big horses, but that certainly wasn't the deciding (or even an important) factor in my buying him!

Frankly, I was scared to death to bring him home at seven months because of all the horror stories I've read about growth problems. I had no experience raising such a big baby. I got plenty of help from knowledgeable people and have been amazed at just how little ration balancer he needs. He's out on decent pasture 24/7 has unlimited hay in the winter and only gets 3 pounds of TC 30% a day.

Here's a picture of my guy at three months (I'm 5'6"). He's 16hh at the withers and a bit higher at the butt at nineteen months.

TrueColours

Oct. 24, 2008, 06:30 AM

okay BS - you had me wondering there!!! I thought you meant he was 16hh at THREE months and I thought "WHOA!!!!" What the heck is happening down in your neck of the woods?! :D

But her certainly does look like a LARGE child ;) and a well developed one at that!!!

And sometimes it just happens - no one pushes for that kind of growth or tries to hurry it along at all - the little darlings just keep growing and growing! :)

Altamont Sport Horses

Oct. 24, 2008, 07:11 AM

I agree that there are too many people out there looking for horses much larger than they require and that the big 'uns are at risk for unsoundness. In fact, I have a statement about that posted on my home page. I breed for a range of sizes from about 15.2-16.2hh. Most are right in the range of 16hh.

I'm rather tall and long legged myself and feel more balanced on a horse that is at least 16.1hh with a good barrel. My last riding horse was 16.2 and with her size she was perfect. She is actually the largest horse I've ever had and probably the largest I've ever ridden. She was well used before I got her and is already showing subtle signs of problems at age 12. I believe her size and bone is what contributed to it. For this reason I am determined to go for something a little less heavy all the way around so that my horse will remain sound for many years.

So, although I am breeding for a good using size it sometimes happens that the genetic toss up at fertilization gives you a larger foal than you expected or planned for. This is why I posted about my Appaloosa filly who is so huge. I'm usually in the situation where I'm hoping "please let this foal grow large enough that the market will be interested" not "please don't let this foal be a huge monster destined for joint problems."

I definitely do not push growth by overfeeding. It seems I am usually trying to maintain enough weight on them as they go through their growth spurts.

TrueColours

Oct. 24, 2008, 07:24 AM

Waterwitch

Oct. 24, 2008, 08:34 AM

Genetics are genetics - that's why I only take exception to the breeders who repeatedly brag about how big their supersized babies are - the braggers are the ones I worry about pushing their youngsters as they are also usually the ones who have the wonky feed and management programs too ;). This doesn't apply to anyone who has posted on this thread so far, I don't think.

okggo

Oct. 24, 2008, 08:46 AM

I think IF people push for it - they think (and probably rightfully so) the market WANTS giants so all horses must mature to at least 16h. What better way to prove final height then a gi-normous baby. I don't agree with force feeding for this, but I'm sure there are those that try it. Just like the hunter breeding market likes them fat.

As far as the market, absolutely it seems like the big ones are more desired. Why, I have no idea. For one, probably because if you want a horse that is 16.2 you have to look at horses in the 17.1 range. The biggest lie I have seen horse shopping is height. Heck, the breeders told my husband (who had NO clue about how to measure a horse) his walker was 16.3. He was 15.2 on a good day!!!!! They have ponies listed at 16+ hands and small horses at 17h plus. Complete BS but apparently the lie works for them, or they are just really stupid and measure the tips of the ears at full alert, which is possible in this instance.

Anyway. I'm 5'10" barefoot and leggy. My ISH is holding tight at 16 hands http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22759&d=1224519286 and while I still think he may end up around 16.2, the boy has NO problem taking up my leg. It's not about height (as far as taking up leg) but rather BODY. He takes up my leg much better then my nearly 17h TB does.

Waterwitch

Oct. 24, 2008, 08:56 AM

I am constantly reading and hearing about concerns from owners with WB youngsters on OCD issues and how they are severely limiting protein intake during key growth times for those reasons. You simply dont hear that at all with the TB babies - OCD is very uncommon and the TB babies will generally eat a lot more grain / concentrates than their WB counterparts and not be affected in the slightest

You may not see much OCD in your herd, but historically OCD is very common in TBs as a breed. I believe that most of KER's OCD research was done in Thoroughbreds. Their research has shown that excessive carbohydrate (specifically fluctuations in insulin related to carb intake), not high protein levels, is the major cause of OCD in predisposed populations of youngsters.

fish

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:12 AM

I think though (and someone correct me if they feel I am wrong on this one ...) is that the TB's can withstand the bigger growth spurts far better than their WB counterparts can

I am constantly reading and hearing about concerns from owners with WB youngsters on OCD issues and how they are severely limiting protein intake during key growth times for those reasons. You simply dont hear that at all with the TB babies - OCD is very uncommon and the TB babies will generally eat a lot more grain / concentrates than their WB counterparts and not be affected in the slightest

Yes - they are pushed earlier if their career path involves the race track and they get broken down and have joint issues from that quarter which are man made rather than genetically inclined, but you simply dont hear much about TB babies with dangerously enlarged joints because their owners are socking the grain to them

Why is that? Does anyone know?

In my experience, it isn't true. I used to see so much epiphysitis at the yearling sales that some shoppers just assumed it was normal.
And remember the year 2 horses with OCD history (Go for Gin and Strodes Creek) ran 1-2 in the Derby?

I will say, though, that "limiting protein intake during key growth times" is more likely to cause problems than solve them. The theory that growth problems (for any kind of horse) were caused by too much protein was discredited about 20 years ago. If WB breeders are still trying to avoid growth problems by cutting protein, it's no wonder they have a lot of them.

As for the OP-- I'm pretty small (5'4", 122#), and have always been enthralled with big animals-- elephants, whales, dinosaurs and, of course, horses, who give us little folk the opportunity through riding to share a little in the experience of being so big and strong, and yet still incredibly agile and kind.

FWIW, I still have the horse I bought as a 16 hand long yearling. I rode her all over the place at 2, started showing her at 3, and she's still sound at 21. IMO young horses are like children-- some sprout up and/or mature early, some late, with all kinds of variations in between. How many of us would be likely to put a growthy 13 year old child on a starvation (or low protein) diet? Does it really make more sense to try to stunt growth through deprivation than support it? It seems to me that if we overfeed, youngsters do not get too tall, but too fat, and hence it makes sense to cut calories (though not necessarily protein) on the latter, but not the former.

pony grandma

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:20 AM

I think that the smaller, shorter legged ladies look ridiculous on these behemoths. It draws your eye and magnifies their short comings, should we say. They look perched and they also look ineffective. One good big buck and it is a very hard long fall. (unless you happen to be Margie!)

I vote for being smart enough to choose a horse that is a good match.

camohn

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:31 AM

I was reading the thread about weanlings- some measuring in the 13.2-3 range at 5 months, and a 16.1 yearling!!

I measured my ASB yearlings as best I could (they thought the stick would eat them!) and the biggest one was about 14.3 at 16-17 mo. I haven't measured, but I'd guess my 4 month old isn't 12h yet. Their sire is in the 16.2 range, the mares ranged from 14.1 to about 15.3.

Are you all feeding for fast growth?

Whenever I hear about huge babies- and huge adults too- I wonder about soundness issues. It's been my experience that the smaller horses (under 16h or so) have fewer lameness problems than the big guys.

Thoughts?
I personally don't want anything over 17H....over that it is a lot more dicey for the horse to be able to collect up or be handy (bend and turn well). Some can manage....many can't when they are Equine-a-suarus. Certian stallions (or mares, for that matter) throw huge no matter what and sometimes it is a surprise....but really a lot of folks do breed for 17H+ because they want to and there IS a bigger is better mentaility. I have a 3 YO that is 16.1H now and will probably mature at 16.2H. Personally I think that is an ideal size for most folks. Most buyers are ammy owner women.....not 6'6 hefty men. I am 5'8 and leggy and 16.1 to 16.2 I find to be an ideal size for me that I don't need a block and tackle to mount. That 3 YO gelding? I had several teenage or young adult women come try him that are an average of about 120 lbs that turned him down because he wasn't big enough (at his unfilled out 16.1H). There is no good reason a flyweight is not appropriately sized on a 16.1 and growing horse. Yup....these young and not heavy ladies are convinced it has to be 17H to look good. Shakes head......

Weanling heights have little to do with feed since their growth was reached while nursing on the momma. All my babies get for "feed" is what they nibble out of momma's feed pan. Once weaned they get mostly hay (grass/alfalfa mix) and a handful of 11% grain. Their size is just "born" that way. With warmbloods responsible breeders do not in fact feed much concentrate and do try and keep rapid growth down because of the stress on the joints. Now those breeding halter stock horses is a whole 'nuther story....but those are really not the breeders you will find on this board either.

A friend of my has more sense than her daughter's trainer. Her daughter is a petite thing and always will be. She will never ever be a tall person. Da trainer was pushing 17H horses when they were shopping for a new horse. Mom finally yelled "she looks like a pimple up there. Look at smaller horses!".

horsetales

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:33 AM

Around here we are definitely not pushing for fast growth. We feed a ration balancer along with good forage, but the genetics are there for large horses. I have not measured my weanlings. I know my colt by a 17 hand sire is large and my other by a 16.3 sire is slower in his growth. From genetics and appearances both are estimated to be about the same final size. They are on the same feed schedule, but the gentics for faster growth are apparent in only one colt. The faster growth colt has more TB blood, so I wonder since TBs tend to mature earlier, if that is the reason for faster growth.

RiddleMeThis

Oct. 24, 2008, 10:18 AM

Not a breeder but I thought I would confirm what many are saying as a buyer. I do not want anything below 16.2 (true sticked 16.2) Not because I think its cool or that they are always better than the smaller horses but because I feel WAY WAY more comfortable on a larger horse (big bodied or small.)

Home Again Farm

Oct. 24, 2008, 10:30 AM

I breed for horses that run between 16.0 and 16.3 hands. Most have ended up between 16.1 and 16.2. I do not push for fast growth, but rather try very hard for slow, smooth growth by feeding a ration balancer and coordinating any other feed and minerals with it. I do have one behemoth - a coming three Don Schufro filly that I haven't sticked but fear is over 16.3 now. My hope is that she is done. I don't measure my weanlings, because I do not regard their height at that age to be significant. Some will be bigger than others, but because of the consistency of my mares over the years, I can be fairly sure that they will almost all end up in the range I listed above.

chestnutmarebeware

Oct. 24, 2008, 10:51 AM

Just to add a little humor to the discussion, up until about three weeks ago, I had only three horses: an OTTB mare that is about 15.2–15.3, a retired (24-y-o) OTTB mare that's 15.3, and a breeding stock paint mare (a QH, really) who's lucky if she breaks 15 hh.

I'm 5'8" with long legs and normal-to-lower weight for my height, and I look fine on each of these girls (I ride hunters). I should also add that I board at a western barn because of their wonderful facilities.

However, I just got a new mare from the track who is 16.3. I haven't been on her yet because she's still being "let down", but apparently, the barn workers have never been around a horse this big, and they tiptoe around her like they would a sleeping tiger! :lol: Her ground manners are perfect, but they still argue about who has to bring her n from the field because her size intimidates them! I keep telling them they should spend some time at a dressage barn and see the size of some of those critters! :eek:

WW_Queen

Oct. 24, 2008, 11:09 AM

As a buyer, I like the idea of a smaller, handier horse that will conformationally last longer, however my current horse is a 17.2hh (true sticked) beast, pure TB, that has been off for a year and a half due to "body" issues.

My last horses were 16.3hh and 17hh. I wanted to go smaller but unfortunately it was love at first canter. :D

When you're 5'10" + some people certainly feel more comfortable on bigger horses. I was trying some 15.2/15.3hh and it felt like I was a grown up trying to ride a tricycle, nothing in front of me and barely beneath me.

My ideal horse would be in the 16.1hh size. Not too big but the right barrel would fill up the leg. :) My guy can be a bit of a monster to pull together on a bad day, and if you're leading him and he stops to puff himself up and stare at something in the distance....it's like standing next to 1,400 lbs of giraffe. :lol:

SteeleRdr

Oct. 24, 2008, 11:20 AM

I posted on the weanling thread about my big filly. I'd actually prefer that she wouldn't be SOOO big. Her momma is big and so is dad...we're really trying to feed her so that she is a slow grower, we don't want issues down the road. We weren't breeding for height, and would prefer she not be so gigantic when she's all grown up. 16.1-16.2 would be ideal for us; however, it's looking like she may exceed that. Which to us is fine, since she's looking like a keeper (though, as the lady I ride for says, they're all always for sale).

Anyways, I don't think it's that we WANT her to be big. I was merely commenting on how big she was getting.

FLIPPED HER HALO

Oct. 24, 2008, 11:36 AM

TB babies will generally eat a lot more grain / concentrates than their WB counterparts and not be affected in the slightest

Yes - they are pushed earlier if their career path involves the race track and they get broken down and have joint issues from that quarter which are man made rather than genetically inclined, but you simply dont hear much about TB babies with dangerously enlarged joints because their owners are socking the grain to them

Why is that? Does anyone know?

My friend is a race trainer and breeder. I know all her babies are raised on alfalfa and they get 2 gallons of grain a day with vitamins.

fish

Oct. 24, 2008, 11:47 AM

My friend is a race trainer and breeder. I know all her babies are raised on alfalfa and they get 2 gallons of grain a day with vitamins.

And yet my friends raising racehorses in Lexington feed their babies the same way I do my youngsters bred to show. It was, in fact, two of them (one in Ky and another training horses to race in Md.) who introduced me to the ration balancer approach to feeding.

I think you will find variations among racehorse people just as you do among those raising sport horses-- not to mention variations based upon differences in climates and soils affecting forage, metabolic needs, etc.

FriesianX

Oct. 24, 2008, 02:29 PM

I love my 15.3 hand stallion! Perfect size, I can get on and off without hurting my knees. He's got a big barrel, takes up my leg nicely, and everyone THINKS he's big because he moves big and has presence. I'm not sure why the love of tall horses, I agree, many people would do better on a horse that actually fit them. For a tall rider, a tall horse is appropriate, but when I see someone who is 5'4" (my height) on a 17 hand horse, it just looks unbalanced. And often, I see a horse who isn't through because the rider isn't strong enough to really get them through.

Having said all that, I have a yearling (well, I guess he's a year and a half now) who I just measured and he's 15.3 in front and 16 hands behind. GULP - someone PLEASE buy him before I have to ride him, it makes my knees hurt just THINKING about that dismount! And I have a 2 year old who's pushing 16 hands and he is a slow growing breed (Friesian) so I'm afraid he's going to be rather tall too.

Generally, the market does ask for taller sport horses - however, I do see that slowing down a bit. Research is starting to confirm that taller, lighter boned horses do have more soundness issues - but that is currently what the sport horse market wants, the taller, lighter horse (and the Euro registries are rewarding).

I love a 16 hand horse with a lot of bone and a round body ;) I do disagree that big horses move better - some of the nicest movers I've seen have been smaller horses, movement and size have no correlation at all. However, more sport horses are big, so you see more sport horse movement in big horses - which came first, the chicken or the egg :lol:

twinlights

Oct. 24, 2008, 04:55 PM

I answered the how tall are your weanlings and yearlings and two year old threads. But not to brag about how big they are. I think its just FUN to see what they measured at what age. I keep records on each one.
Its also good to know so you don't have growth related problems, its very good to keep a close eye on them.
And NO, I am not feeding for fast growing or big babies.
Some grow fast, some grow slow, some grow all at once and others in spurts. Its a very individual thing. I had a sport pony measured bigger at a year than one of the horses. She has since slowed way down, wheras the horse took off and is now huge.
Personally I like the smaller guys. Just my preference. More agile, stay sounder, and just a ton of fun!:yes:

camohn

Oct. 24, 2008, 05:05 PM

My friend is a race trainer and breeder. I know all her babies are raised on alfalfa and they get 2 gallons of grain a day with vitamins.

Sounds like babies being prepped for a yearling sale....which is basically like selling a halter horse.

JGHIRETIRE

Oct. 24, 2008, 06:21 PM

I would think that our feeding programs have changed as well - there are so many varieties of grain that weren't available before. I also think that American's in general are getting larger so our horses are keeping up with us.
I don't really need a 16'3 horse at my age - I'm 5'4" and it's become a heck of a stretch to bridle a horse that tall - not to mention - I don't bounce like I used to:eek:

Blonde Filly

Oct. 24, 2008, 07:27 PM

I don't want mine to be a monster, but she is what she is. She is fed what the vet school nutritionist recommended - Purina Equine Senior and quality grass hay. Mom looks bigger but sticks at 16.1 and a hair, dad is probably close to 17 hands now. Since mom was a maiden I certainly was not expecting the large foal I got. But she's healthy and beautiful and sweet and I love her and that's all that really matters to me!

I'm curious why the "senior" and not the "junior"? Purina Jr. and Sr. are very similar in ingredidents and Sr. is a few bucks a bag less..so why senior over junior? Cost? Or the balance? They are quite similar for sure! :yes:

Bravestrom

Oct. 24, 2008, 08:19 PM

My yearling is 16.2hh - daddy is 16.3 and mommy is 16.2 - uncle is 17.hh - we are very careful with his feed - very little grain - 1/2 cup twice a day - the rest is beet pulp and ricebran.

But he has very long legs with lots of bone.

Took him to a sport horse show and they thought he was supposed to be in the two year old class.

He is just big - but very well built - never been bum high.

2 gallons of grain - that's scary!!!!

Ladybug Hill

Oct. 24, 2008, 08:46 PM

clearound

Oct. 24, 2008, 08:52 PM

.

I'm over my sports car phase. I appreciate a nice land yacht now.

That is one of the funniest things I have read in ages. Unfortunately, it just cost me a keyboard.

Gestalt

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:13 PM

I like horses between 15.2 and 16. My little guy (15h) was at a boarding facility this past summer. The owner really liked him and kept asking how big he was. Now they breed and raise their own so I said I didn't know how tall he was (I did because I have a stick and I know how to use it :winkgrin:). So one day she gets her stick and she and her husband measure him. They come up with 16.2h. What???? Okay, now I know why so many horses are listed wrong height wise. Yeesh.

EqTrainer

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:28 PM

I have a 36" inseam and a very short upper body comparatively. My personal horse is 16h and HUGE around. He easily takes up my leg and I have never, ever felt like I was too big for him. If anything, he is too wide for me.

Dan was 16.3 and a big guy.. big boned, high neckset, short backed.. not as wide as 16h horse. I always thought he was just perfect because he was not as wide as the 16h horse.

The range of how a horse really rides and/or feels undersaddle is so not only related to height. As a seller, I wish more people would consider a horse under the height they may think is ideal, because often enough that horse rides bigger than a taller one.

My just turned four year old is 16.1 and STILL looks like a ginormous colt. Sigh. His dad was 15.3 and his mom 17.. I really was hoping for a small junior but when I found out his sire's sire is 17h I figured I was doomed. He apparently will grow forever.. and ever.. and ever... and ever. He never gets really awkward or shoots up anywhere.. he just keeps growing. Genetics are what they are.

Rhyadawn

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:29 PM

Carol Ames

Oct. 24, 2008, 09:52 PM

:no::lol:I did NOT, though,as stated ,that is what the market demands/ :mad:values; i deliberately picked "smaller" stallion, Jupiter:yes:, so that my mare e, a maiden would not have to carry and deliver a big foal; though, u, the vet and fellow breeder told me that I i got one:eek:;i never thought so:no:; Mercury was simply'perfect' :yes:his mom, , :winkgrin: me., the vets and two Tb race horse trainers all agreed;he was :lol:perfect! and at a compact 16.1 hands is the perfect size for his young owner to show in the childrens'