Eligible for what?

[Derby Lyn Farms]

I have an AWS colt, out of an AHS, German Hano., and Oldenburg ISR mare by an AWS stallion. What are the requirements for Canadian sport horse? Is he eligible for that? I am only asking b/c I have people inquiring on him wondering if he can be approved with any other registry. If I remember correctly, a Canadian Sport horse is recognized by OLD ISR?

[JWB]

Not sure but I think a Canadian Warmblood is. Not sure about a Canadian Sport Horse.

[arizonard]

Canadian Sport Horses or Canadian Warmbloods are eligible for approval with Old NA if their pedigree is sufficient.

Was he born in Canada?

[Derby Lyn Farms]

No he wasn't born in Canada...does he have to be?

[tri]

Don't you have a problem with a horse that has nothing whatsover to do with "canadian" being approved that way unless you are in Canada and want to start breeding canadian warmbloods?

[Derby Lyn Farms]

I guess I don't understand your question. I am asking for someone else who would like to know if my colt is eligible for another registry. I don't want to get into another AWS debate b/c I don't think it is allowed here. But I have a colt by a stallion whose owner didn't bother to get him Oldenburg approved. Wouldn't you much rather breed to an Oldenburg stallion then an AWS stallion? The dam of this colt is German and US approved hanoverian and also approved Oldenburg NA. He deserves a better registry then AWS. He might be eligible for RPSI b/c the sire may have completed the required performance, but that is something I have to look into.
Oldenburg said no b/c his sire is not registered with them.
Thanks for the info.

[tri]

Wouldn't you much rather breed to an Oldenburg stallion then an AWS stallion?

Well, don't you think it would depend on the stallion? There are some stellar AWS stallions and some dogs and there are some stellar oldenburg stallions and there are some dogs.

He deserves a better registry then AWS. He might be eligible for RPSI b/c the sire may have

So, despite you thinking that the colt "deserves" more, you milign the very process that produced him? And, you think a nearly bankrupt registry that is all but shut down in Germany would be better?

Sounds like you are thinking of keeping this colt as a stallion prospect?

Look I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but I really think you need to educate yourself more before making these kinds of sweeping statements.

[Derby Lyn Farms]

I am trying to educate myself more-hence the reason I am posting on here. I did NOT create him...I bought the mare in foal. I basically wanted the mare but I had no choice but to take her with her soon to be born colt. In my eyes the mare was bred down.

I have no intentions of keeping him, and in my first post I said I was asking b/c other people were inquiring...maybe I didn't make it clear that I was not asking for myself but for potential buyers. If he does not sell when the weather breaks in the spring then he will be gelded. I am a firm believer that a nice stallion makes an even nicer gelding.

The people inquiring on him want to know if he can be registered elsewhere. I am simply asking so I can give them answers. The mare is AHS and I have only read up on AHS and Oldenburg horses. I am not familiar at all with RPSI. A person specifically asked me about RPSI. I also emailed RPSI and they said that if the stallion has completed the required performance requirements that they would honor the AWS papers. But it is also good to know that RPSI is nearly bankrupt.

You are not making me feel bad at all. I am very happy that this mare produced a very nice colt out of a mediocre stallion, so I cannot wait to see what she produces when bred to something else.

[not again]

If you want to sell the foal for decent money you want want to encourage the successful performance side of his pedigree. Whatever registry you aim for is rather unimportant in a gelding. If he is bloodstock material then how could the mare have been "bred down" to produce him?

[tri]

Ok, I think I see where the confusion is coming in. You asked If I remember correctly, a Canadian Sport horse is recognized by OLD ISR?

You can only REGISTER the horse with one registry. For a gelding that will be the end. You can not then take a gelding to another registry (like the old ISR) so getting him registered Canadian in the hope of then taking him to OLD will not work. You are mixing up breeding approvals for mares & stallions where you can REGISTER the mare or stallion with one registry and the APPROVE (as in approved for breeding) them in multiples. Since he is a gelding, you can't APPROVE him for breeding, see?

So, whereever you take him to have him registered will be what he is.

[NoDQhere]

Well, don't you think it would depend on the stallion? There are some stellar AWS stallions and some dogs and there are some stellar oldenburg stallions and there are some dogs.



So, despite you thinking that the colt "deserves" more, you milign the very process that produced him? And, you think a nearly bankrupt registry that is all but shut down in Germany would be better?

Sounds like you are thinking of keeping this colt as a stallion prospect?

Look I'm not trying to make you feel bad, but I really think you need to educate yourself more before making these kinds of sweeping statements.

Talk about sweeping statements :mad:. Tri, you have such issues with the Euro registries that you never miss a chance to make a "sweeping statement". We all know what your agenda is.

RPSI is doing just fine. It is a small registry in Germany and it always has been. It is big and pretty well respected in NA. Drives Tri crazy that it is doing so well :rolleyes:.

[Derby Lyn Farms]

Thanks NoDQ, I am the first to admit that I do NOT know a whole lot about warmbloods. Still trying to learn. I have tbs.
I would be fine with him being AWS as a gelding. People are inquiring on him as a gelding and as a stallion prospect, and they ALL want to know if he can be registered with anything but AWS.
I now understand that he cannot be registered with 2 associations.

When I say the mare was bred down, I just think she could have been bred to a better stallion for the price. She could be bred to a nice AHS stallion instead of an AWS stallion. But some people are totally ok with an AWS breeding stallion and they have their own reasons. He is a very nice colt for what he is. I can't wait to see the foal by Redwine out of this mare.

[Carrera]

Just my $0.02 here...

I'd stay away from the Canadian Sport Horse Registry, they haven't been doing much in regards to approvals, mare inspections, and well calling people back.

From what little I know, others correct me if I'm wrong, a horse is registered with one and only one registry and then has to be approved with others.

[NoDQhere]

Depending on who the AWS sire is, the colt, if he is kept a stallion may only be able to be AWS. If, and it is a BIG IF, the AWS sire was of appropiate pedigree AND had met performance requirements the colt might meet RPSI. But I am pretty sure the SIRE would have to be presented to the RPSI and Approved, Book 1 before the colt could be presented as a stallion.

Like you say, as a gelding it doesn't matter as much. He will probably sell better as a gelding anyway.

[tri]

Geez, nodqhere, why don't you just lie, already.

The RPSI officials are wonderful people and I like the registry format that they have. It is actually very similar to the AWS in the multiple books, etc.

But, you don't have to take my word or nodqhere's word for the status of the RPSI in Germany. All you have to do is ask.

[NoDQhere]

Geez, nodqhere, why don't you just lie, already.

The RPSI officials are wonderful people and I like the registry format that they have. It is actually very similar to the AWS in the multiple books, etc.

But, you don't have to take my word or nodqhere's word for the status of the RPSI in Germany. All you have to do is ask.

Ask who? You, Tri, expert in all things "registry"? Your position on Euro Registries is well known on this BB. Saying RPSI is doing just fine is hardly a lie. Geesh, Tri, could you be any more abrasive and unprofessional?? No wonder you always post anonymously.

[~Freedom~]

I have an AWS colt, out of an AHS, German Hano., and Oldenburg ISR mare by an AWS stallion. What are the requirements for Canadian sport horse? Is he eligible for that? I am only asking b/c I have people inquiring on him wondering if he can be approved with any other registry. If I remember correctly, a Canadian Sport horse is recognized by OLD ISR?

To answer your question directly No you cannot register or have your colt approved CSHA. Only male offspring of approved CSHA can be included in this registry. If only one parent is approved then only half papers would be issued and I believe if the colt were left whole he could not be approved stallion as half approved. If he were gelded then the CSHA would not be interested anyways as they are a 100% breeding registry and non breeding animals are pretty much forgotten (unless they become famous for something). The other thing is that CSHA does not REGISTER animals but in effect only issue COP papers.

The CW could be an option but not as a stallion prospect for they do not recognize the AWS.

I would go with the RPSI if I were looking for another option.

[tri]

No, geesh, ask the RPSI. Ask them about their status in Germany. They will talk to you about it.....maybe nodqhere should do the same.

[NoDQhere]

No, geesh, ask the RPSI. Ask them about their status in Germany. They will talk to you about it.....maybe nodqhere should do the same.

We host an RPSI Keuring every year, and believe it or not, TRI, we do talk to them A LOT. In fact this year we went "touristing" with them. Lots and lots of talking. Mt. Rushmore, Crazy Horse Memorial, Custer State Park. They are wonderful to do business with but they are also our friends.

You like to insinuate "stuff" about all the Euro Registries, any chance you get. I'm guessing I'm not the only one who is sick of it. The fact is that I am more concerned with the RPSI's track record here in NA and so far it is pretty damn good. Besides, you are so loyal and enamored with your choice of registry, why do you give a darn? Unless you have Zweibrucken horses, what RPSI is doing is really none of your business.

[tri]

Methinks you protest too much!

Look, the officials at the RPSI are wonderful. Very caring, knowledgable, easy to work with. They are one of the fastest growing registries in the U.S. in part because they do have several books where unregistered horses and/or horses with non-traditional bloodlines can be registered and tracked which is the same as the AWS - which, by the way, nodqhere, is NOT my registry of choice and I do not have ANY horses registered with them.

But, if you want to claim that the registry in Germany has not declined in recent years, that is your choice. There can be a conversation with them, however, about how the popularity of the registry in the U.S. is what is keeping them solvent.

We have seen the fall out when registries fail or pull out of the U.S. marketplace - look at the Old Verband fiasco, look at the bind Selle Francias breeders are in when that registry pulled out. Discussing these issues instead of pretending it doesn't exist or doesn't happen doesn't serve anyone.

[NoDQhere]

Well, Tri, I do have to admit that you are the best when it comes to twisting things around.

There is a big difference between saying a registry has declined in recent years and saying a registry is nearly bankrupt. All of the smaller region registries have struggled, it is hardly a secret. Of course the NA $$ are helping their (RPSI's) situation. DUH! They are BIG over here.

RPSI does not have "several" books for unregistered or horses with non-traditional bloodlines. There is ONE and it is BOOK 2 which is only for recording. The EU rules puts RPSI in a position where they HAVE to record any horse presented to them.

I will protest when you start blithering your innuendos. It seems like maybe you have tried many of the Euro Registries and just haven't been able to "cut the mustard?" Just trying to figure out why you have such "issues" with all of them??

[tri]

There is ONE and it is BOOK 2 which is only for recording.

Patty, for someone who claims to have such knowledge and have spent so much time with the RPSI inspectors, you sure don't know your stuff.

The RPSI has 3 books for mares, Book I, Book II and Pre Mare Book. Here is a cut and paste directly off their website:

Mares may be inspected at age 3 or older for entry into a Mare Book. All mares must meet the above pedigree requirements, with an overall inspection score of 6.0 or above, and no single score lower than 5, in order to qualify for entry into Mare Book I. Mares with adequate pedigree but with an average score of 5, and no individual score lower than 4 at their inspection will be entered into Mare Book II. Mares who do not meet the pedigree requirements for the Main Mare Books (i.e. Draft, Quarter Horse, and other American breeds) will be entered into the Pre Mare Book.

Then they also maintain a separate book for the Knabstuppers and then a separate book for palaminos and then they have sport pony books.

SEVERAL BOOKS.

There is a big difference between saying a registry has declined in recent years and saying a registry is nearly bankrupt.

No twisting here. I said that the U.S. breeders are keeping the RPSI solvent. Perhaps you just don't understand what SOLVENT means.

[tri]

And, NoDQhere, you can try and twist things about me all you want. I have NO issues with any of the euro registries. All my mares are 100% branded and approved with multiple euro registries including the KWPN, the BWP, the Old Verband as well as the AWR. And all of my mares have competed up to the int'l level in grand prix jumpers.

Why don't you stop being so nasty and quit making up stuff about me?? What is your issue anyway?

[NoDQhere]

Methinks you like to split hairs:lol:.

[tri]

No hairsplitting. You said that you knew all about RPSI and that there was only two books. I've shown that there are 3 books for mares and then a couple more for others.

So stop jumping on me and telling me I'm wrong all the time and lets just try and get along.

[NoDQhere]

No hairsplitting. You said that you knew all about RPSI and that there was only two books. I've shown that there are 3 books for mares and then a couple more for others.

So stop jumping on me and telling me I'm wrong all the time and lets just try and get along.

You actually said "they do have several books where unregistered horses and/or horses with non-traditional bloodlines can be registered and tracked"

I corrected you by saying that there is one book for unregistered horses and/or horses with non-traditional bloodlines The rest of the books are for horses that do meet pedigree requirements but perhaps don't score high enough. No where did I SAY THAT RPSI HAS ONLY TWO BOOKS. Nor did I claim to know ALL about them, but we have been with them for many years so I have learned a thing or two.

I am not jumping on you, just trying to figure out your issues with the Euro Registries. Getting along is always preferable, but I did find your comments regarding RPSI to be a bit misleading, thats all.:sigh:

[tri]

Ah, see, when we communicate instead of jumping on me, we can see where the problem is. It would have been much better if you had just asked. I never meant it to come across that there were multiple books of non-traditional/unregistered horses, just that there were multiple books and the non-traditional/unregsitered horses had a place. I also said it was just like the AWS where the top books have the solid pedigrees and the bottem books takes care to the others so at least everything is tracked.

I think my sentence could have been clearer but you also took it out of context.