Is an Appaloosa a breed or a color?

[Melyni]

Is an Appaloosa a breed or a color.

What do you all think?

MW

[2Mares]

How about a color breed? :D Since they do have the specification of NC, I guess I'll lean more towards breed. The spots are just a characteristic of the breed and there are exceptions to the standard in all breeds. However, I've always joked that I have a registered mutt. She's registered appy and colorado rangerbred, with tb and qh mixed in there.

[oldenmare]

Gee, Mel - all those spotted horses just look alike to me!!!

[RiddleMeThis]

Both.

[birdsong]

Breed!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appaloosa

Also:
On the other hand, Norwegian Fjord Horses, Appaloosas, American Paint Horses, Friesians and other breeds with distinct physical characteristics or pedigrees that also usually have distinctive or colorful coats might considered a color breed by some, they technically are a pedigree-based breed. For example, Appaloosas are usually spotted, but a solid-colored offspring of registered parents can still be a registered Appaloosa. Likewise, a solid-colored American Paint Horse that has registered parents may also be registered.

[Sakura]

A breed that requires color as a standard.

[in_the_zone]

Breed, but they sure have started looking a lot more like Quarter Horses over the last decade or so.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Melyni - Are you trying to start something? ;)

[Daydream Believer]

Well, the closest thing to the original appaloosa that the Nez Perce had exists today in the Spanish Mustang strain/Colonial Spanish breed. Here is a really nice stallion standing in the Dakotas...the sire of a colt I am bringing into VA.

http://www.sorraiamustangs.net/CrazyLegss.htm

His sire:

http://www.sorraiamustangs.net/Troubleshooter.htm

Simrat who posts here stands Paisano, and appy also:

http://www.akalranch.com/


The main source stock for our bloodlines is Choctaw Indian stock descended from horses the Nez Perce that fled to the south brought with them. A few Nez Perce appaloosas did make it out. Several feral Spanish herds also gave us some appaloosa traited horses of Barb descent. I'm one of several breeders trying to bring back the full leopard pattern also that we lost due to some poor breeding choices made before the color patterns were understood.

So...while there is a registry that registers appy spotted horses of QH and TB descent...there still are a couple appy's around of the original Native American type. They are very rare and very treasured!

[MistyBlue]

The breed does not require color as a standard. It requires for registration *either* a colored coat pattern ~or~ mottled skin and either sclera and/or striped hooves. A solid coat app is registerable as long as it has mottled skin and either striped hooves or white sclera. Those are the acceptable characteristics for registration for the ApHC. So no, colored coats are not necessary.
The breed does have it's issues...like Quarterloosas who look just like an AQHA with coat pattern. But a really Appy appaloosa has one helluva great personality and athleticism. A tad too smart-ass for some owners though. :winkgrin:
And of course not many "lookit my horse" lovers are fond of the rat tails some have or the mottled faces or funky looking eyes. They're not a horse for everyone.

[shawneeAcres]

I feel that the original appaloosas bred by the Nez Perce indians was pretty much a breed. When they were taken from the indians and dispersed, the "Spotted hroses" were crossed with almot anything, including drafts. George Hatley, who tried to resurrect the "original" appaloosa looked long and hard and found as many good individuals as he could, he then carefully choose a Ferzon arabian stallion and used him to reintroduce some refinement into the breed. There was no "QH" infusion until the 60's really, and actually some "QH"s were actually appaloosas, some are registered BOTH registrys and were called "roan". Unfortunately the original goal of the appaloosa horse club was totally derailed thru the 70's with the "QH" contigent. There was a push to try and close the studbooks, but of course, that never happened. And now I am sure it never will. The "true" appaloosa is definitely a breed with it;s own body type, and strong consistency which the indians prided the horse for. However, I would not consider it a "breed" today. Of course, WArmbloods are not "breeds" either, they are simply a "type" with a studbook, but breed denotes something much more "pure" i.e. arabs are a true breed.

[shawneeAcres]

The breed does not require color as a standard. It requires for registration *either* a colored coat pattern ~or~ mottled skin and either sclera and/or striped hooves. A solid coat app is registerable as long as it has mottled skin and either striped hooves or white sclera. Those are the acceptable characteristics for registration for the ApHC. So no, colored coats are not necessary.
The breed does have it's issues...like Quarterloosas who look just like an AQHA with coat pattern. But a really Appy appaloosa has one helluva great personality and athleticism. A tad too smart-ass for some owners though. :winkgrin:
And of course not many "lookit my horse" lovers are fond of the rat tails some have or the mottled faces or funky looking eyes. They're not a horse for everyone.


The appaloosa really could not require the color or characteristics, as most apps are heterozygous, therefore when bred together, there is a 25% chance that the offspring will not have color or characteristics. The characteristics are as important as color, only a horse carrying the lp gene will show characteristics.

[JWB]

They're a breed - They only take horses from Appaloosa, TB, Arab or QH gene pools. If it was a "color" registry, you'd be able to register any horse regardless of parentage, as long as it had the spots... but if I cross an appy with a warmblood, spot's or no, I can't register it appy....

And I had a lovely "solid" registered appy. She had a spotted muzzle and striped hooves....

[Appaloosa1224]

Both

Appaloosas are a breed with a distinct heritage, but the ApHC has done a great disservice to them IMO.

You can also have a horse of a different breed with appaloosa coloring, but is not an Appaloosa. Kind of like those QHs with spots. It's fine if you like the color and add it to your program but don't call it an Appaloosa if it doesn't have mostly Appaloosa heritage.

[Fairview Horse Center]

It is a breed. My old gelding was registered App, and had no mottled skin, no striped hooves, and no white sclera. He was originally registered as a colt, only for breeding purposes, but then the registry voted that they truly wanted to justify being a breed, not a color registry, and would allow horses with no characteristics to be registered for show. They did not want to penalize their breeders that happened to foal solid color Appaloosa foals. I have not kept up, so maybe the rules have changed since then?

My boy at 30 years of age - dressing up for Halloween.

[sid]

It used to be a "breed". Not particularly pretty -- scant mane and tail hair, often Roman nosed...at least the F (foundation stock after they were almost exterminated) were. Also extremely smart, trainable and durable. There was a reason that the U.S. calavary ran most of the breed over a cliff when the Nez Perce were finally rounded up and a few smart military men kept a few for themselves. It was a very admired breed.

With the infusion/acceptance of TB, QH and Arab to make the horses more attractive, coupled with the fact that there were so few of them left and they had to be crossed out because of the close genepool of the few real Apps left ( I think the number I read was 40), the constant and consistent characteristics of the "breed" the ApHA have been bred out.

The ApHC created a "temporary" registration for those horses that did not display the ALL traits by color of the original foundation Apps -- that is, white scelera, striped hooves, mottled skin, and coat pattern (leopard, roaned, blanket or snowflaked). When a horse displays all of these they go into the P (permanent) registry.

While many of today's Apps will show all of these traits, from a body-type/conformation standpoint they can be markedly different in stature, endurance and behavior, due to TB, QH or Arab influence.

So...it is now a color breed. IMO and IME.

[shawneeAcres]

It used to be a "breed". Not particularly pretty -- scant mane and tail hair, often Roman nosed...at least the F (foundation stock after they were almost exterminated) were. Also extremely smart, trainable and durable. There was a reason that the U.S. calavary ran most of the breed over a cliff when the Nez Perce were finally rounded up and a few smart military men kept a few for themselves. It was a very admired breed.

With the infusion/acceptance of TB, QH and Arab to make the horses more attractive, coupled with the fact that there were so few of them left and they had to be crossed out because of the close genepool of the few real Apps left ( I think the number I read was 40), the constant and consistent characteristics of the "breed" the ApHA have been bred out.

The ApHA created a "temporary" registration for those horses that did not display the ALL traits by color of the original foundation Apps -- that is, white scelera, striped hooves, mottled skin, and coat pattern (leopard, roaned, blanket or snowflaked). When a horse displays all of these they go into the P (permanent) registry.

While many of today's Apps will show all of these traits, from a body-type/conformation standpoint they can be markedly different in stature, endurance and behavior, due to TB, QH or Arab influence.

So...it is now a color breed. IMO and IME.

The appaloosa registry is the ApHC (APpaloosa Horse CLUB) NOT ApHA (APHA is American Paint Horse Association), the "temporary" registry no longer exists, they now issue "N" numbers (non-characteristic) to true solid apps. They can be allowed to show by getting a "passport" and paying a fee and can only be bred to fully numbered, characteristic/coloreds apps.

[cloverlone]

ok,.. I asked this question in a previous thread so thank you Melyni for bringing it back up.

If you get color of an appaloosa with only 4% of the pedigree being appaloosa would you still call this a breed???? I don't know how to bold but, FOUR PERCENT!!!!!!!! I can't call it a breed at this point. I see (and some prominent German judges agree) a Holsteiner with the coat pattern of an appaloosa.

It will go to 2% easily and I even see 1% Truly amazing!

See for yourself (pedigree included):

www.cloverlone.com/CaptainAmerica.htm

gail

[webmistress32]

those of us who know the true appaloosa would know it whether it had spots or not.

trust me. I have a quintessential appaloosa ... and he is ALL appaloosa. ;-)

[HOH]

Definitely a breed - and I love them spots or not!

Interesting question, though, as I was able to obtain a non-breeding ApHC registration for a non-registered Appy gelding based on coat characteristics in order to show in Appy classes by sending in pictures of him.

[NoDQhere]

I really shouldn't get in on this thread as we no longer breed Appaloosas but I see so many opinions that are a bit off base. ShawneeAcres has really explained it quite well but I'll add a bit more.

While the US calavary did destroy many of the Nez Pierce horses, they also took many of them and gave them to farmers in the midwest who crossed them with draft horses. THAT is where the majority of "pickle heads" came from in the Appaloosa breed. When Lewis and Clark "discovered" the "Palouse horse" they described them as being of the quality of the finest "English courser".

IMO, the Knabstrup horse is MUCH closer to what the original Palouse horse was than either the mustangs posted by DDB or the Quarterloosas we see today. My mother owned the stallion Stardance F-1399 his entire life. He was the first Appaloosa horse east of the Mississippi River. She bred many nice Appys over the years and never had a pickle headed one.

An Appaloosa is a breed. No matter what the %, if you have the color, you also have the things that make an Appy an Appy. The breed has an amazing history and there are several good books out there for anyone who wants to learn about the breed.

[Appaloosa1224]

An Appaloosa is a breed. No matter what the %, if you have the color, you also have the things that make an Appy an Appy. The breed has an amazing history and there are several good books out there for anyone who wants to learn about the breed.

I strongly disagree. If a horse is 90% QH and has spots you would stil consider that horse an Appaloosa? According to the ApHC it would be registrable, but the horse is essentially a QH. The true Appaloosa (as true as you can find them) has a very different look than those that look like QHs with spots. I think if you took a foundation Appaloosa and took away the spots you would still be able to tell that it's an Appaloosa.

[shawneeAcres]

ok,.. I asked this question in a previous thread so thank you Melyni for bringing it back up.

If you get color of an appaloosa with only 4% of the pedigree being appaloosa would you still call this a breed???? I don't know how to bold but, FOUR PERCENT!!!!!!!! I can't call it a breed at this point. I see (and some prominent German judges agree) a Holsteiner with the coat pattern of an appaloosa.

It will go to 2% easily and I even see 1% Truly amazing!

See for yourself (pedigree included):

www.cloverlone.com/CaptainAmerica.htm

gail

These horses are NOT APPALOOSAS, they are Holsteiners with a bit of "bastard" blood according to the Holsteiner registry (due to the fact, that the Holsteiner is much more of a "breed" than most of the other warmbloods are). I see no point in these horses frnakly, I mean they are nice, no doubt, but what is the point of a hrose with so little app blood and so much Holsteiner? Why not just breed Holsteiners? Or if it is a spotted WB you want go with the Knabstrupper

[sid]

Shawnee -- thanks for picking up my typo. I corrected to ApHC.

[cloverlone]

These horses are NOT APPALOOSAS, they are Holsteiners with a bit of "bastard" blood according to the Holsteiner registry (due to the fact, that the Holsteiner is much more of a "breed" than most of the other warmbloods are). I see no point in these horses frnakly, I mean they are nice, no doubt, but what is the point of a hrose with so little app blood and so much Holsteiner? Why not just breed Holsteiners? Or if it is a spotted WB you want go with the Knabstrupper

Gracious,,, I never called your horse anything so terrible! I find your comment rude and tasteless. A horseman knows good horses for who they are and can appreciate any good breed type w/out such judgment. I bring up something rare and should be of interest to any person breeding 'color and athletes .. No, it's not for everyone or maybe not for anyone here but there is something to learn of what the appaloosa blood is capable of. It's not like I'm trying to educate everyone here about how important the Holsteiner blood is on the international and national circuits.. I could go on and on about WHY Holsteiner and why not other options you mention. You could maybe ask me what Appaloosa qualities (strength of blood) I still see with so little blood to know what shows through to this stage. That would be productive to any program, no?

There was much going on in the AHHA years back with the negative comments, primarily from a single loud person (who was/is not a board member OR judge). Nobody here needs to be concerned with such politics. One of this countries former DAD and AHHA judges also always makes very good comments for these Spotted Holsteiners. Dr. Nissen himself looked at this foal then back at his pedigree, back and forth a few times and was pleasantly surprised. They have a place and that is on the A circuit.

[shawneeAcres]

Gracious,,, I never called your horse anything so terrible! I find your comment rude and tasteless. A horseman knows good horses for who they are and can appreciate any good breed type w/out such judgment. I bring up something rare and should be of interest to any person breeding 'color and athletes .. No, it's not for everyone or maybe not for anyone here but there is something to learn of what the appaloosa blood is capable of. It's not like I'm trying to educate everyone here about how important the Holsteiner blood is on the international and national circuits.. I could go on and on about WHY Holsteiner and why not other options you mention. You could maybe ask me what Appaloosa qualities (strength of blood) I still see with so little blood to know what shows through to this stage. That would be productive to any program, no?

There was much going on in the AHHA years back with the negative comments, primarily from a single loud person (who was/is not a board member OR judge). Nobody here needs to be concerned with such politics. One of this countries former DAD and AHHA judges also always makes very good comments for these Spotted Holsteiners. Dr. Nissen himself looked at this foal then back at his pedigree, back and forth a few times and was pleasantly surprised. They have a place and that is on the A circuit.

Not trying to say anything "terrible" and the comment of "bastard blood" was moreso what the WB people would be thinking, after all, appaloosas are looked at sideways by many europeans! I know your horses are lovely, but I don't understand the point in it. Perhaps you can elighten me. If a horse only has 4% or less of appaloosa blood in it, then I don't suspect a lot of appaloosa attributes are really going to show up, but then I could be quite wrong.

[webmistress32]

there are several competing registries for Appaloosas.

I think the foundation group is coming closest to the "real" Appaloosa breed (Nez Perce originals.)

I strongly dislike the Quarter Horse influence on the breed. Arabs would be much more appropriate ... or TBs for that matter.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I see no point in these horses frnakly, I mean they are nice, no doubt, but what is the point of a hrose with so little app blood and so much Holsteiner? Why not just breed Holsteiners? Or if it is a spotted WB you want go with the Knabstrupper

I disagree. Some people like spotted Warmbloods, and personally, I don't think the Knabstrupper is the same. The Knabstruppers I have seen are very much more (looks and movement) like QH/Appys, not warmbloods. I can understand totally why someone that liked Appy coloring would cross with a Holst, Hann, Old, Dutch etc. to get what they are looking for.

[Sonesta]

I disagree. Some people like spotted Warmbloods, and personally, I don't think the Knabstrupper is the same. The Knabstruppers I have seen are very much more (looks and movement) like QH/Appys, not warmbloods. I can understand totally why someone that liked Appy coloring would cross with a Holst, Hann, Old, Dutch etc. to get what they are looking for.

WHAT?????! What Knabstruppers have you seen that look like QHs or Appaloosas?

I know when we show our Knabstruppers people (and judges) come up to us and say things like "I've never seen an Appaloosa that moves like (or looks like) that before." When we tell them it's because it's a Knabstrupper, not an Appaloosa, they usually make some comment like "So THAT explains it."

[Laurel&HollyFarm]

You could maybe ask me what Appaloosa qualities (strength of blood) I still see with so little blood to know what shows through to this stage.

I took a peak at your website and your stallion is BEAUTIFUL! I would love to hear the answer to the question above. That is in addition to the beautiful coat.

My appy was so full of personality.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I have seen a lot of Appys that are incredible movers. In fact, one of the best movers I have ever seen in my life was an Appy/Arab cross - rat tail, no mane, mottled skin, and would have given any Devon GC a run for their money.

[Melyni]

Melyni - Are you trying to start something? ;)

It's a questions that comes up all the time in Knabstruppers as well. So I wanted to hear/see what other peoples takes on it were.
MW

[shawneeAcres]

WOuld like to clarify a bit, pelase excuse, me have been VERY sick the past few days and coming across harsh. I see nothing wrong with a cross between an app and a WB if that is what you like, I jsut didn't see the logic behind cutting the percentage DOWN so much on a cross til it is 4% or less, just didn't make a lot of logical sense to me. However, I know that those horses ARE lovely horses. THe thing that gets me is that the ones I ahve seen are heterozygous, so 50% of the time they are going to produce a solid, with no app color/characteristics, so what do you have then? A horse that really isn't accepted in any WB registry, not accepted as an appaloosa and not a full blodded WB, which to me might be a turnoff when marketing them. But whatever floats your boat! However, I still would not call them an "appaloosa", just a colored WB cross.

[SSFLandon]

My Appy from JG is a very nice hunter mover. She has a big reach in front with her shoulder and is getting stronger behind. She is 2.5 yrs. old. I am a trainer feel she could easily pin in a hack at an A show. She is built more like a TB and other then her color could be mistaken as one. She has a dainty head as well. I would like her to have larger eyes though.

I do find it interesting that these Appy Sporthorses are elgible as a breed with the Appy club. It seems odd that something with so much TB blood can join a purebred registry....

the whole topic is confusing!!

I think they need an Appendix Appaloosa registy ;)

[ToTheNines]

It all makes sense if you go to an ApHC breed show. The breed gets you there, but once you're there, you have to have something to do other than stand around and be a breed. Otherwise, they would be sort of like dog shows.

So there are western classes, hunter classes, jumper classes, games classes, in-hand classes, and more. So the type of App you have depends on what classes you want to do well in. Apps with TB tend to predominate in the hunter classes. If they had dressage classes, people would probably start clamoring to allow WB breeding.

Many ApHC shows also include foundation classes, for the traditional foundation bred Apps.

I personally prefer an App with some color, but if bringing in other breeds to improve performance in specific disciplines has resulted in solid Apps that's ok with me. I realize this is carrying the color argument to an extreme, but be careful what you wish for if you are breeding soley for some kind of objective standard and outward breed characteristics -- look what's happened to some of the dog breeds.

[5]

I've seen paintings of spotted oriental horses and spotted european horses.
Over which ocean did the Nez Pierce get their foundation stock?

[NoDQhere]

I've seen paintings of spotted oriental horses and spotted european horses.
Over which ocean did the Nez Pierce get their foundation stock?

They came over with the Spanish.

[Daydream Believer]

Yes, it is pretty well established the Nez Perce appaloosas were Spanish in origin...and correct me if I'm wrong but I think the Knabstruppers also got the pattern from Spanish horses?

The only horses left today that are the same as the horses they brought 500 years ago to America are the Colonial Spanish horses. They number about 3000-4000 in about 30 different and distinct strains. In certain western strains (usually called Spanish Mustangs however not all strains were ever feral) we have the remnants of the horses that some Nez Perce fled with south into the Indian Nations where the Choctaws and Cherokees were "relocated" earlier in the 1800's. We don't have many of them but there are breeders that are focusing on the original appaloosa patterns in the Spanish Mustangs.

Please...also realize...that the horses we have are different than today's BLM mustangs...our oldest registry is 50 years old and they have been bred in captivity for longer than that by the founders.

I have a black blanket pattern exceptionally nice stud colt coming in from S. Dakota in a few weeks. He is by the Crazy Legs stallion whose link I posted earlier.

http://sorraiamustangs.us/page29/page33/files/blocks_image_5_1.png

http://sorraiamustangs.us/page29/page33/files/blocks_image_0_1.png

This site is very interesting and from one of the breeders who are key in the LP project.

http://arrowrockspanishmustangs.com/APPY.html

[belambi]

Breed!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appaloosa

Also:
On the other hand, Norwegian Fjord Horses, Appaloosas, American Paint Horses, Friesians and other breeds with distinct physical characteristics or pedigrees that also usually have distinctive or colorful coats might considered a color breed by some, they technically are a pedigree-based breed. For example, Appaloosas are usually spotted, but a solid-colored offspring of registered parents can still be a registered Appaloosa. Likewise, a solid-colored American Paint Horse that has registered parents may also be registered.

With paints they are seperate stud books within the breed.

[belambi]

WOuld like to clarify a bit, pelase excuse, me have been VERY sick the past few days and coming across harsh. I see nothing wrong with a cross between an app and a WB if that is what you like, I jsut didn't see the logic behind cutting the percentage DOWN so much on a cross til it is 4% or less, just didn't make a lot of logical sense to me. However, I know that those horses ARE lovely horses. THe thing that gets me is that the ones I ahve seen are heterozygous, so 50% of the time they are going to produce a solid, with no app color/characteristics, so what do you have then? A horse that really isn't accepted in any WB registry, not accepted as an appaloosa and not a full blodded WB, which to me might be a turnoff when marketing them. But whatever floats your boat! However, I still would not call them an "appaloosa", just a colored WB cross.

In USA maybe. But very valuable in the rest of the world. ;)

[belambi]

WHAT?????! What Knabstruppers have you seen that look like QHs or Appaloosas?

I know when we show our Knabstruppers people (and judges) come up to us and say things like "I've never seen an Appaloosa that moves like (or looks like) that before." When we tell them it's because it's a Knabstrupper, not an Appaloosa, they usually make some comment like "So THAT explains it."

Sadly there are some ATROCIOUS knabstruppers around also. I realise that the Sonesta ones are absolutly stunning, well the ones that I have seen are anyway. However i have decided against adding knab to our warmblood x appaloosas at the moment because of how difficult it has been to get semen for Aus.
Our sportshorses compete in serious dressage, they go down well with the judges, never colour prejudiced, always judged fairly and sadly many people congratulate us on not using the knabs,like we had originally planned.. because they have only seen very average ones which people like to try to send 'off to the colonies!'

[belambi]

These horses are NOT APPALOOSAS, they are Holsteiners with a bit of "bastard" blood according to the Holsteiner registry (due to the fact, that the Holsteiner is much more of a "breed" than most of the other warmbloods are). I see no point in these horses frnakly, I mean they are nice, no doubt, but what is the point of a hrose with so little app blood and so much Holsteiner? Why not just breed Holsteiners? Or if it is a spotted WB you want go with the Knabstrupper

TOTALLY out of order.
all breeds are manmade, and have to start somewhere.

[flypony74]

Somebody say Appaloosa?

http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm176/flypony74/MEGIN2.jpg

[belambi]

Yep! ;)

http://i38.tinypic.com/a732u.jpg

[Sonesta]

Sadly there are some ATROCIOUS knabstruppers around also. I realise that the Sonesta ones are absolutly stunning, well the ones that I have seen are anyway. However i have decided against adding knab to our warmblood x appaloosas at the moment because of how difficult it has been to get semen for Aus.
Our sportshorses compete in serious dressage, they go down well with the judges, never colour prejudiced, always judged fairly and sadly many people congratulate us on not using the knabs,like we had originally planned.. because they have only seen very average ones which people like to try to send 'off to the colonies!'

Yes, there ARE some atrocious Knabstruppers out there (as with most breeds)! You must be very careful in choice of stallion and look also at their pedigree. But you CAN find some wonderful ones that produce well. Apollon (very little of his semen left), Conetti, Xanthos, Hamlet, and Pegasus are some good ones!

[ljshorses]

Well I love good Appaloosas and good Knabstruppers. I have a performance App mare (now 29 and obviously retired) that had a Wap Spotted filly (see pic of near leopard jumping) and my keeper filly by Apollon (solid black, pic is of her at the Future Event Horse Championships she was 2yo then she is now going under saddle and plan to event). The old mare was approved for Knabstrupper breeding so the solid black filly is a registered Knabstrupper. I sure wouldn't call her ugly. And She looks even better this year (got to get some recent pics of her) now that she's filling out. Since the Appaloosa as a breed unfortunately has many more bad examples IMO than the Knabbies, I lean to the Knabs. Too bad I didn't get spots but some day I will breed her to a Knab and will hope I get them, lol. P.S. ironically, since Apollon died the year my keeper "LJS Achromatic" was born we bred her dam to Atlantis a leopard grandson of Apollon (old mare not a frozen candidate). So her last foal and almost full sibling to my black filly ended up a solid dark bay, lol. We will eventually sell him, he is gelded and will probably stay here until under saddle unless I find the perfect home for him sooner. What I must say here though looking at the closely bred youngsters, the "spanish" influence is apparent. I love it and would love to have another spotted one by Apollon someday.

[darkmoonlady]

Simply decribed, wouldn't it be easier to say that the LP coat color gene (possibly others tbd) makes an appaloosa marked horse? Then from there we can say that a number of breeds including the horse breed registry known as the ApHC, as well as the POA, Knabstrupper, Miniature horse and others breed horses and ponies carrying that gene and its' characteristics.

[belambi]

Yes, there ARE some atrocious Knabstruppers out there (as with most breeds)! You must be very careful in choice of stallion and look also at their pedigree. But you CAN find some wonderful ones that produce well. Apollon (very little of his semen left), Conetti, Xanthos, Hamlet, and Pegasus are some good ones!


Fully agree..

[grayarabpony]

Yep! ;)

http://i38.tinypic.com/a732u.jpg

What's the breeding of this horse?

[atr]

Oooh... are we posting appy pix?

This one is 100% foundation-bred, (as you can tell by his jug head, ratty tail and wierd eyes...) His paternal line is incredibly prepotent--there are pictures going back 100 years of horses that look very similar.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/ACTRI/Walkerboise.jpg

[grayarabpony]

Atr, he does have a tail! I've seen a few Appies with no tails and that is sad. The flies must torture them to death.

His coloring is gorgeous.

[secretariat]

http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo37/kyderby1973/kayla_p_4_4.jpg
http://i359.photobucket.com/albums/oo37/kyderby1973/ZigSFG3.jpg

[Cataluna]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v635/Randelle/DSCN0382.jpg

[nightsong]

Appaloosas are a breed with a distinct heritage, but the ApHC has done a great disservice to them IMO.
You can also have a horse of a different breed with appaloosa coloring


Yup, yup, and YUP.

[RugBug]

The appy is a breed that is being ruined in a quest to mimic the AQHA.

This is the appy (http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g14/slorugbug/horse%20stuff/IntheSpotlight.jpg) that taught me the ropes. She was 20+ at the time of that picture and out of a retirement she did not enjoy. She was an AWESOME horse and if I could clone only one horse of all the ones that have been in my life, it would be her.

[LiveLikeUrDyn04]

I know I am coming in a little late on this one but I am working with a couple Appaloosa's for a lady while I am here in KY for school. She has so graciously let me ride them for free..catch is one hasn't been worked in years and the other isn't broke yet so I get to break him in the process!


But anywho...Here is sweetie...she is solid and you'd never think her to be app she has a few white random spots the size of my thumb print...

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v347/55/60/1393710930/n1393710930_30286343_2692.jpg

and here is her son, Maverick, and as you can tell he is full of typical appy color! He is my project to break and turn into a little hunter (well not so little at 16.1)

http://photos-h.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-snc1/v347/55/60/1393710930/n1393710930_30286351_5103.jpg

[Penthilisea]

Appaloosa is a breed. You can have no characteristc (aka solid) foals that are 100% appaloosa. However, the Lp gene is not confined to the Appaloosa breed, ala Knabstruppers, and POA's, etc.

[rainechyldes]

Appaloosa is a breed.
The LP gene gives spots, but isn'tthe only thing that makes it an appaloosa.

in the 1930s the appaloosa as a breed was almost extinct, and while I don't have the time to go confirm it, I believe....the studbook reflecting QH and TB lines had a lot to do with trying to bring the breed back up., they needed something to breed the remaining appaloosas to.

I'll agree that finding a non QH appaloosa can be a trial, trust me. I've been hunting them down this past year - but I'll also add the caveat that I'm looking for specific bloodlines, which makes that even harder. But they do exist, thanks to some excellent and long term breeders who have kept the true appaloosa breed alive for many generations, and not used them to mix and match with everything else to make a horse with spots:)

The place to look is the foundation appaloosa horse registry. To see real appaloosas.

[secretariat]

We like Rangerbreds as well.

[Appsolute]

I think it depends, ApHC is a disgrace, colored quarter horses. I joined last year to register my filly, and cringe at the monthly magazine. Many "Appaloosas" today are colored halter / WP / HUS quarter horses.

But, "Appaloosa" is most certainly a breed as well, with distinct conformation, athleticism and that appaloosa personality!

And I LOVE looking at photos of Appaloosas (especially the non "colored quarter horse" kind you have all been sharing!)'

This was Dancer, a 15 hand, athletic as hell appaloosa. He had one QH in his pedigree 8 generations back, a few TB ancestors, and one Saddlebred. He took me from walk trot to prelim level eventing, then went on to do well in Sm. Jr. Hunters.

http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/41996/2237349390101250289S600x600Q85.jpg

And this is my yearling filly, only 50% appaloosa (TB dam), Chocklate Confetti lines. All characteristics, and has that "appaloosa" personality, total barn favorite, rather hang out with the people then her heard mates, comes running to the gate when I arrive.

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/23304/2173609860101250289S600x600Q85.jpg

And in the end, I think there will always be disagreement in what an appy "should" be. I prefer the type that my horses are. Others, obviously like the QH halter horse look. But honestly this, gives me the willies!
http://www.dalportoranch.com/maid_prety_impresive.jpg