Stallion ideas for KWPN mare?

[Amoroso]

I'd like to be prepared for the 2009 season early this year, so here the stallion shopping begins! I've decided to try frozen semen on one, possibly two mares for 2009, and I'm looking mainly across the pond.

Here is a link for my mare's information and photos:

http://www.apexwarmbloods.com/kosette.htm


Here are my potential stallions:

- Furst Romancier (younger stallion with exceptional gaits)
- Rosario
- Sunny Boy
- Don Schufro (although I've seen some nasty looking heads on his foals)
- Idocus (this would be fresh semen)

Based on my mare, which would you choose and WHY? Thanks for the help.

[siegi b.]

Amoroso - it is impossible for me to look at your list of stallions and then try to determine what you are trying to achieve..... The horses you've listed are quite different from each other and also have varying strengths and weaknesses.

So your mare is by Uniform which means she's probably tall, maybe a little hot? What are you trying to improve on her? What does she need in order to make her the "perfect" horse? What does she reliably produce?

Then you look at the stallion and try to figure out what they reliably produce and if that complements what you're looking for.

[Amoroso]

Being by Uniform, she is a little hot which I would prefer to improve. She has a lovely neck, good length of back and good clean, straight legs. I'd like to improve the topline on the mare, but I'd prefer not to get too much additional length of back in the foal. The trick here is that I love the build and movement of the mare so there is nothing that grabs me or sticks out to correct, aside from the hot side of her. I'd prefer not to modernize her body style anymore, she has some TB in her pedigree and she herself already has a more modern type build. Her movement is great, although she could have a little additional length of stride if I was being really picky. Her collections are fairly good, but that could be another area to strengthen.
Her foals have all been quite lovely, and very easy going. She has produced a filly by Navarone, and a filly and colt by Freestyle. My Freestyle foal could have had some additional length to his back, according to the KWPN inspectors. They also mentioned that he could have displayed a little more length of stride and drive from behind. However, Freestyle himself is shorter in the back than most dressage style stallions. Hope this helps for information, I'd love your opinions.

[siegi b.]

The two that came to mind right away were

- Sir Donnerhall
- Florencio

Both horses will improve the temperament and provide a little more oomph to the gaits. They are also modern in type which wouldn't hurt in your mare's case.

[Formosus]

Isn't Florencio EVA positive?
If he is then as far as I know his semen cannot come into Canada.
THere is a son of his standing in Quebec, as far as what he will produce that is unknown since it will be his first year at stud (2009).

Does the stallion have to be KWPN approved? If so Sir Donnerhall is out.

[EquineLVR]

IDOCUS!!! Hands down..

We have an Idocus daughter in our barn and she can do it all.. hunters or dressage.. lovely girl.

Plus Idocus would give you an all arounder AND he matches her type.

[Amoroso]

Stallion does not have to be KWPN approved. They do, however, need to be approved with a recognized WB registry. I have no problem with registry A papers through the KWPN.

Florencio is very nice, but in watching his video I noticed that he tends to move rather wide behind. Did you find that Siegi, I noticed on your website that you have a foal by him so you are likely the best person to ask? Where is Florencio standing - I couldn't find a website for him? And...do you know if he is EVA positive?

Does any have feedback or comment on Sunny Boy? I like the combination for his breeding. The Donnerhall/ Pik Bube is a well proven cross and likely one of the best Donnerhall cross breedings. This makes up Sunny's Dam line, and of course the great Sandro Hit on the top side. His breeding is similar to that of Sir Donnerhall, without of course it being Sir Donnerhall (whom I'm not terribly fond of).

[siegi b.]

Amoroso - I didn't realize that you were in Canada.... yes, Florencio is EVA positive and stands at Team Nijhof in Holland. I've bred to him twice and will do so again - that's how much I like what he adds to the equation. And no, I have not noticed wide movement behind....

Sunny Boy in my opinion has not produced as well as Sir Donnerhall, for example. You may want to look at Sinatra Song (he's in the US) for another Sandro Hit son - I have a filly by him out of my Preferent mare Kadence, and while she seems to be a late bloomer, I think she'll be quite nice by the time she's a year old.

Another stallion I absolutely love is OO Seven, however, I would not use him unless the mare was in the 16.3 or better range since he tends to throw small size.

You also may try to get in touch with Home Again Farm (Mary Lou) who posts here to get her opinion on how Fidertanz would work with your mare.... I think that may be a good combination.

Good luck!

[Fairview Horse Center]

You may want to consider the Idocus son, Olivier. http://www.imajica.net/olivierphotos.html I think he would do what you are looking for with temperament, topline, gaits and collection, while not modernizing. His foals should be eligible for Register A Dutch.

[Amoroso]

While Oliver looks nice, I think I'd breed directly to Idocus going that route.

[Fairview Horse Center]

I love Idocus, but my Idocus out of my mare that is a bit on the hot side is definitely more sensitive/fussy/tempermental than her mom. Olivier adds the Gelderlander blood, with an incredible motherline. That should cool off the hotness a bit. My Idocus is also more refined than my mare was who is 3/4 TB.

[not again]

I don't know if he is approved KWPN, but we have frozen semen from Dressage Royal which is here in N. Am. and it is EVA negative. He has sired several licensed sons including the Hanoverian Damsey, who was I think eighth at the Bu Cha this year. He also sired Desperado, the current five year old World Champion.
http://www.hengste-kothe.de/9.html

His conformation and mindset would compliment your lovely mare. Good luck with whatever stallion you choose.

[diva4ever]

I'd look at Ironman or Titulus. Both move great and have superb temperments. The Ironman babies are as sweet as could be and I've only seen pics of the Titulus offspring, but they too are adorable. see ironmanonline.com for information on both.

[SidesaddleRider]

What about Consul?

I have a 4 yr old by him, out of a TB mare, and she is SO laid back you always needs spurs and crop to get her going, is a lovely mover, great jumper, and SMART (picks everything up very first time). She is built very uphill, short back, and has a gorgeous topline (even as a just started 3 yr old).

[Libera]

What about Contester? A nice solid stallion with already some babies on the ground and in the showring. Plus he is in the US and KWPN approved.

He should improve the topline in your mare as well as temperament.

[Amoroso]

I found out a couple interesting tid bits. One of the best repo vets in BC, Canada has found Don Schufro's semen to be difficult and not the most motile. It could be that particular shipment, but at $2100 CND each insemenation dose, I think I'd prefer something that he has used with success.
He used some Sunny Boy frozen last year, and had better success with it, pregnancy resulted from it at least.

I've also discovered that Iron Spring Farm has some Contango frozen left which might be an excellent choice for my mare, and he is approved dutch.

[Formosus]

Again, Contengo is EVA positive and just like Florencio his semen is not allowed into Canada because of that.
And there is the vaccination protocol to follow with EVA positive mare.
12 days post foaling a vaccination and then 21 days with no nose contact with other pregnant mares and then insemination. Do-able but it ads some constraints.
Keep looking!
Aint this fun.;)

[Amoroso]

Just found the spot on ISF website where it indicated that he was EVA positive. Moving forward...LOL. Fun, fun, fun.
There are several breeders in my area with Contango foals, so I wonder how they were able to get semen into Canada if he is EVA positive? In fact, the foal that won our keuring was by Contango - bred by Ruurd and Wieke Dykstra.

[Amoroso]

I'd look at Ironman or Titulus. Both move great and have superb temperments. The Ironman babies are as sweet as could be and I've only seen pics of the Titulus offspring, but they too are adorable. see ironmanonline.com for information on both.

They are both lovely, but I'm looking for a dressage stallion :D

[Formosus]

You can certainly ask them but more then likely they bought the mare in foal or they send the mare south of the border to get bred and brought her back in foal or they had old frozen semen that was not EVA positive (it would have to go waaaay back however, but possible).

[Bibble]

What about Farrington Keur? His offspring are incredibly talented and have great temperements. I've had two to start from scratch and they are extremelly willing horses who LOVE to work, and exceptionally easy to train. If the one thing you want to maybe add to your mare is topline and length of stride, I don't think you could go wrong with him in any way. My own humble opinion! Good luck!!

[Oakstable]

Farrington is an excellent suggestion and he is getting up in years.

Go for it.

[diva4ever]

They are both lovely, but I'm looking for a dressage stallion :D

But they are :yes:..they may have never shown a lot in dressage (although I think Titulus did some, maybe Ironman too in his earlier years). Most of Ironman's first breedings were to mares in dressage. And I know a dressage rider who rode him once said he should've been a Gran Prix dressage horse. Contact nsm (Nancy) and she'll tell you more...I really think either would match great with your mare. I know Ironman's got kids out right now excelling in dressage.

[Formosus]

Ok, this was getting a little annoying so I contacted Jos at Equine-Reproduction and asked about importing EVA positive semen into Canada and here is what he said:
(keep in mind that Jos is quite familiar with repro work in Canada)



<<In the past, semen was required to be EAV (the virus is "equine arteritis virus", while the disease is "EVA") free, with the stallion and semen being tested prior to importation. When the USA and Canada opened the border for the passage of equine semen between the two countries with no restriction, the requirement for "negative EVA" became somewhat of a redundancy, as the USA had no requirement that equine semen being imported from any country be EAV-negative. Added to that, EVA was present in the USA.

Upon review of the CFIA regulations currently in place (which you can do by going to the "Automated Import Reference System at http://airs-sari.inspection.gc.ca/Airs_External/Default.aspx), it now appears that there is no restriction in place for importation of EAV-free or positive semen. It should be noted that I checked only importation requirements for semen imported from the UK and Germany (Germany has EVA endemically present, the UK does not), but neither country's regulations make any mention of EVA.>>

So while the vaccination protocol is still needed for a non vaccinated mare it might be possible to breed her to Contengo.

Cheers