Ration Balancer type feed making horse HOTTER?

[RedMare01]

I changed barns in June, and I love the new place. The only problem I'm having is with the feed. At the old barn, my mare was eating whole oats (3-4 lbs/day), a vit/min supplement, and grass hay. She is an easy keeper, 14 years old, in good weight, and ridden 2-3x a week in dressage. She has always been a bit on the hot side, but very manageable.

The new barn uses McCauley Brothers feeds. They have excellent, very high quality feeds. The BO started her on the Original 12% pellets, which is a complete oat based feed, at the lowest number of pounds (I believe 4#/day) to meet all of her nutritional needs. She continued on grass hay. She stayed on this for a couple of months, and was having loose manure, so it was then decided to switch her to a ration balancer type of product, called Alam. In the past month, she has gotten so hot on this feed, I fear combustion will happen any day now :lol:.

I wrote to McCauley brothers and got a very nice response from their nutritionist who was surprised that she would be hot from this feed. She was a bit hotter on the 12% pellets, but not nearly like she is now. My other option is M30, another ration balancer.

Opinions? I am stumped.

Alam: http://www.feedhorses.com/feeds/specialapplication/alam.cfm
M30: http://www.feedhorses.com/supplements/M30.cfm

Caitlin

[gloriginger]

Hum, it seems to me that you are comparing apples to oranges...I definitely wouldn't feed 30% protein if she is hot on 11%...

what are the restrictions with your horse/ the BO?

To me something like the WB100 would be more like what you were feeding and were successful with for your mare.

http://www.feedhorses.com/feeds/specialapplication/WB100.cfm

[Jennwarr84]

How many lbs of the Alam was she getting per day?

[RedMare01]

How many lbs of the Alam was she getting per day?

I believe 3-4# total per day, which is just above the recommended minimum. She weighs about 1100 lbs.

Caitlin

[Ride'emCO]

Alam is NOT a ration balancer, it is a low-nsc, grain-free, beetpulp-based pellet. It is 11% protein, 6% Fat, 20% Fiber feed.

I'm very surprised that your mare was high on it! My TB did wonderfully on it. Let us know what you find out...

[Ride'emCO]

Hum, it seems to me that you are comparing apples to oranges...I definitely wouldn't feed 30% protein if she is hot on 11%...



Protein does not make a horse hot, sugars and starches do. Further, a ration balacer is higher in protein because you feed LESS of it, so the total protein (in grams) your horse gets a day is what counts.

[Simkie]

Some horses have allergies/sensitivities to various ingredients and sometimes those sensitivities can manifest as "hot."

Horses can be sensitive to alfalfa, corn, wheat, soy, etc. I think alfalfa, corn and soy are the major players.

It's frustrating that McCauley doesn't list their ingredients (at least I wasn't able to find them.) If they're on the bag, you may want to take a look and see what the top few things in the Alam are. I would compare to the 30 % supplement.

gloriginger, feeding 1 pound of a 30% protein product is NO different than feeding 3 pounds of a 10% protein product. The point of the high protein ration balancers is you feed a very small amount and that small amount has all the vitamins and minerals your horse needs. There is nothing wrong with a 30% protein feed and protein does not make a horse hot.

[gabz]

The ALAM says : HIGH LEVELS OF DIGESTIBLE ENERGY ...
it also indicates that it is good to add weight to "extremely thin" horses.
It appears to be a feed meant for horses that are having digestive, chewing, and absorption problems, which your horse does not have.

Although the M30 says it can be fed with oats, the Calcium: Phosphorus ratios in the feed do not support that.

But you could try just the M30 with the current hay the horse is getting and go from there. I would start with 1 pound per day and see how the horse does in the following 2 - 4 weeks. Bump it up if you feel she needs more. If the horse were getting alfalfa hay, then I might add some oats, but with the calcium where it is in the M30, I would just do that alone.

If you want to feed more volume you could consider alfalfa pellets with oats, without upsetting any balances.

[gloriginger]

I know what a ration balancer is---I don't see the 2 choices she listed as any way similar.

My mare is HOTTER with higher protein, so yell at me all you want

Protein=energy

[Melyni]

Cut the Alam intake to .5lb a day, increase the hay if need be.
Alam is bit too high in nutrients for an easy keeper. She certainly does not need the 3-4lbs.
Also check what kind of ha she is getting does it have any alfalfa in it?

Might need to change to an all grass hay.
YOurs
MW

[Ambrey]

Protein=energy

Calories= energy. You can get calories from carbohydrates, proteins, or fats.

That said, I wonder if your mare is now getting just too many calories? Is she putting on weight?

I also have a friend who insists that anything with beet pulp in it makes her horse insane.

I was under the impression that ration balancers were low in calories, more a supplement mixed with some protein source. This looks more like a concentrated calorie source, like Triple Crown Complete, which made my horse a crazy moose.

[gabz]

Calories= energy. You can get calories from carbohydrates, proteins, or fats.

I was under the impression that ration balancers were low in calories, more a supplement mixed with some protein source. This looks more like a concentrated calorie source, like Triple Crown Complete, which made my horse a crazy moose.

TC Complete is a "whole feed".. that is, it includes the fiber (forage) that a horse needs along with the vitamins, minerals and other nutrients. TC Complete is similar to many senior feeds.

Ration balancers are a CONCENTRATED feed supplement. Typically, you feed 1 - 3 pounds ONLY per day, per 1100 pound horse. They look like they are high protein, but that's because you only feed a SMALL amount.
Percentages. it's all about percentages in the total volume/ration. 1 pound of my ration balancer is about 3 measuring cups. Not very much at all.

It's like a person taking a vitamin and using metamucil instead of eating a balanced diet that includes roughage and fiber.

Gloria - what Simkie was trying to say is that you can feed 3 pounds of 10% protein for a total 30%; or feed 1 pound of 30%. 10 x 3 = 30; 1 x 30 = 30. Doesn't matter if it's a "whole feed" or a ration balancer.

The benefit of a ration balancer is that it doesn't carry all the "other" stuff - grain by-products, oats, corn, soybean hulls, beet pulp, etc. etc. that some horses react to. Ration balancers are very good for horses that need VERY little "grain" but still need added vitamins, minerals, and similar nutrients.

[blackstallion]

I don't use that brand, but I only feed my TBs about 1 lb. ration balancer (30% protein), horseshine and all the grass hay they can eat per day. They look wonderful and are not hot. Ironically oats makes my horses jumpy.

[Daydream Believer]

I had a foal get extremely hypersensitive and acted bizarre on soy based RB this summer. I took her off and in a few days was completely normal temperamentally. I've seen adult horses also get pushy and on the muscle on it also. We took them off of it and put them on alfalfa pellets and oats and they went back to normal. I have found an article written by a biochemist in horse nutritional products that state that the phytoestrogens can cause that in some horses. Phytoestrogens can be found in some other legumes like alfalfa and clover also but the soy is very concentrated compared to the others.

It might be worth a try to take the horse off, put it on a non soy diet and see what happens. If it is another ingredient, you might have to do some trial and error to figure out what it is.

[EventerAJ]

Alam is not a ration balancer. It is a feed recommended for EPSM-type horses, tying up, horses that go spazz on sweetfeed, etc. I noticed a HUGE difference in one horse last yr when we switched him to Alam. Prior, he was on Top 10 (10% fat, 10% fiber, 10% protein), 6+ lbs per day, plus 5lbs oats, and a cup of M30. He would not keep weight, was very grumpy, mouthy, and occasionally "spastic" under saddle. Had plenty of turnout (12hrs+), free choice hay, and a course of gastrogard.

Three weeks on the Alam, his attitude was much improved. No more nipping, far less girthy, happier outlook on life and better effort in work (much calmer and more focused). He maintained good weight on 5lbs of Alam and a cup of M30... yes, he *gained weight* with 5lbs of feed, whereas he was losing weight eating 11lbs of sweet/oats!

Before this horse, I didn't buy too much into feed=behavior. And Top 10 is a very good quality feed-- every other horse was doing great... and this guy ate it for over a year with no apparent problems. But then minor symptoms turned into bigger issues, which were eventually cured with the Alam. I've used it on 3 different horses, none of them went hyper or crazy at all. The label on the bag actually says it may be fed freechoice... I don't think I'd ever do that, but it is beet-pulp based and quite mild. You don't need to overfeed ANY feedstuff simply to meet "nutritional requirements." Meet your energy needs first; then add a supplement (ration balancer, etc) if necessary. If your horse gets all his energy from grass, great! Just make sure the protein is adequate. A horse can get almost all his vit/min from good quality forage. Add grain simply for energy/weight gain. Choose the type of grain that best suits your horse's digestive system and energy requirements.

I've used McCauley's for 7 yrs, love the company, products and service. They will go out of their way to help you and get your horse fed right.