Beefing up a teenaged TB

[FlashGordon]

It looks as though I have a 17-18 y/o TB gelding headed my way.

Right now he's out on grass and not getting much else.

He has lost all the muscle in his topline and is very hippy and ribby. Probably a body score of 3.

He has some stuff going on in his right front foot. He may be metabolic. We should know more later today or tomorrow.

I have enough Progressive GB and Envision to get him through for awhile, but I would like to switch him to something that is a little more accessible. I have to have the Progressive drop shipped, which I CAN continue... but what about Triple Crown perhaps? He definitely needs a good dose of protein, for his feet and muscle tone.

Also have MagOx & Devil's Claw which I think would both benefit him.

And of course beet pulp... I am thinking that is where we should start. I am afraid to just start feeding him up... I've had skinny horses come my way before but none in such poor shape, and most youngsters not older like this guy. Ironically despite his bad condition he is perky and happy.

His feet... oy... what a mess... :no: They are tiny nubs at the moment and the right front heel is just mushy. But that's a whole 'nother post...

[Lady Counselor]

Personally, I would look into trying Senior feeds. They metabolize easier, and that will help him. Also do beet pulp, and feeds such as Omegatin, or other high calorie feeds. Corn oil is also supposed to be almost all calories.

[FlashGordon]

Thanks LC.

Also... worming....... I want to worm him SO BADLY but know I should probably wait to see what we are dealing with as far as his feet and metabolic issues go...

EqT I could pester you with all these feed/worming questions but figured you've got enough on your plate... ;)

[BuddyRoo]

Easy does it.....

Remember that moves and such can be stressful and on an already undernourished body, even more so. So you don't want to throw a ton of variables at him at once.

Were it me...here's how I'd go about it.

1) Get him home. If he's been on grass hay, that's where I'd start. Free choice grass hay. As much as he'll eat. Keep it in front of him.

2) Exam, check teeth, fecal. Deworm per your vet's recommendation. Mass killoff is obviously a concern in a horse that age w/ unknown deworming history. If he appears to have a large load based on the fecal, I'd start deworming with ONE DRUG AT A TIME...not combos. You can power pak at the end of it all to cover the encysted and such. Again, listen to your vet...as I am not one. ;)

3) Slowly introduce grains. Too much can be a problem. If possible, feed several small meals a day. If it were me, I'd probably start out with beet pulp and oil. Or Safechoice with oil. Since you're concerned about the metabolic portion, molasses free beetpulp would be the safest bet really. You could also soak some alfalfa cubes if you want.

4) RE: the feet? Good nutrition will help with the growth. But you can also stimulate bloodflow to the area by rubbing (with your hands) the coronet band. Make sure you've got a GOOD TRIM on him and keep up...you can affect a lot more change if you're willing to trim every 2-3 weeks instead of every 5-8 where it's always playing catch up. More frequent trims will net you a result more quickly IME.


We just did this with a horse. Started in April. Was short about 250 lbs. Could see every rib. hips. Spine. Feet were HORRID.

In just a few months, he's looking GREAT and all we did was what I just posted. He wasn't a "hard keeper". They just weren't FEEDING HIM!

BEST WISHES TO YOU!

[FlashGordon]

Buddy Roo, that is awesome! Just what I needed.

I will admit I am a little gung-ho right now, I tend to want to FIX EVERYTHING all at once and must remember it will take some time. Especially with this older fellow who's had a really rough 6 months.

I know he's always been healthy and in good weight so I am hoping we can get him back there.

Thanks so much for the plan you laid out, that is helpful...

[EqTrainer]

Unfortunately if he is metabolic - and there is no way to tell right now if he is, and given his recent past he could be situationally metabolic - nothing TC makes or Safechoice would be an appropriate option. What else can you get up there?

[Melyni]

I'd start out with really good hay,
Then add in a small amount of a high fiber low glycemic feed,
then add in some flax seed and one really good vit min supplement.

Until you know wether or not he has IR or EMS don't use any feeds with lots of starch or sugar, eg no molassed feeds.
Can you get ADM's Senior Glo? Thats a good feed for older horses with IR issues.
Or Pm me if you need more specific suggestions.
MW

[BuddyRoo]

The metabolic thing does pose a bit of a problem...but if he's IR or has PPID/Cushings, beet pulp will still be safe.

I wanted to give you some links to our project horse....

This was the day we picked him up: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a183/syoung78/20080404EliCheyCougar124.jpg

And here is the ongoing thread....if you go to post #176 or post #204 you can see pics that are recent from Sept/early Oct.
http://forums.horsecity.com/index.php?showtopic=29079178&hl=The+Eli+Project

[FlashGordon]

BR, those pics are great!! What a turnaround. That is good to see.. hopefully there's a chance for this guy.

We're bringing him over this afternoon. Mixed feelings, really, but at least the horse is going to get a chance.

Thanks guys for the info, I'm probably jumping the gun on a lot of things. Right now I'll just be happy if he has an uneventful ride over...

EqT, up here it is a bit sad, Nutrena, Blue Seal, or TC if you want to get "fancy!" But I can hunt around. Melyni I'll look into that ADM product. And I can always continue getting the Progressive shipped. Dan sure did well on it...

[Hannahsmom]

I'd start out with really good hay,
Then add in a small amount of a high fiber low glycemic feed,
then add in some flax seed and one really good vit min supplement.

Until you know wether or not he has IR or EMS don't use any feeds with lots of starch or sugar, eg no molassed feeds.
Can you get ADM's Senior Glo? Thats a good feed for older horses with IR issues.
Or Pm me if you need more specific suggestions.
MW

Melyni the ADM Senior Glo was recommended to me also but when I got the bags I saw that it had molasses and cane sugar in it so not good for an IR horse which is what I felt I was dealing with.

To the OP, I had a TB that went thru a MAJOR insulin issue this year and in that time I dealt with a huge weight loss and muscle wasting. What has put weight back on my horse is Purina's WellSolve LS, plenty of good grass and grass mixed with bit of alfalfa hay, some sort of rice bran however you can get it in them. If you can do the beet pulp instead of grain with a good mineral/vitamin that is even safer. And finally, I have been worming like crazy following EQTrainer's recommendations. I was a bit hesitant but did the plunge and did the DD Ivemectin, then DD Equimax, then another DD Ivermectin. Plan to do the powerpak after the first frost. I think the worming really helped. If the horse's appetite isn't great, try APF as an appetite stimulant.

17 is NOT old. I plan to compete my will-be-17-TB at Prelim again next year if all goes well. There is a 25 year old Morgan at my barn that regularly does 30 mile competitive trail.

[BuddyRoo]

Well...wishing you the best of luck. The guy in the pics I linked to is 12ish. We think. Someone somewhere had put some buttons on the guy but he'd basically just been sitting in a field for a few years being neglected.

The "before" pics honestly looked way better through the camera than they did in person. Camera really DOES add some extra pounds! LOL

And I agree w/ the above poster...a well cared for horse can be pretty active well into their 20's.

My BuddyRoo was being ridden regularly until he was 30.

My mare Chey is 17 now...just started jumping her at age 15. She's doing great.

My friend picked up a TB a few years ago who we were told was 18. He was FULL of it and jumped like a rock star. Later found out that he was 28. I was jumping a 28 YO horse! Eek! Had I known his age, I may not have done it...I was just working off of how he acted. Who knew?!?

So maybe this guy will come around for you.

What is his name? I wanted to say "Welcome home X" but I don't know what to put in X. :cool:

[FlashGordon]

Thanks BR for the info and the stories about your older guys. I am pretty sure, given his paperwork, that he is 17.... but I'm going to try and trace his tattoo. I think it'd be fun anyway to find out his JC name, bloodlines, race record...

His name is Windsor, I've been calling him "the horse" or "old man" or "grey horse" I think in an attempt to remain at an arm's length! But alas no chance now that he is coming home to me. I'm trying to be cautiously optimistic, I think he will either do really well or not well at all so we will see in the upcoming weeks...

I've never been on him but several of my friends have and they love him, and said he is just my type of ride. It'd be nice if he were riding sound someday, but for now I can't get past the trailer ride that is happening in just a few hours!

Anyway thanks all for the feeding advice and the encouragement!

[Buffyblue]

If you have Blue Seal in your area, you might look into their Trotter. I kept a 30 something mare who was missing 10 teeth (and probably IR) in great shape with Trotter back in the 90s. Didn't know about rice bran at the time or I would have added some of that. She also got a nice timothy mix hay - whatever she would/could eat. For an extra vitamin boost, I used Horse Sho Glo by Manna Pro. And I had her on Strongid C2x per my vet's instructions. No one ever believed her age! Lost her at around 37-38 to heart failure - still with her beautiful show legs and her great physique! Good luck with your boy - a mere CHILD compared to my Buttercup!

[aiken4horses]

http://www.completerider.com/starvedhorse.htm

Here's a great article on feeding thin/starved/neglected horses.

You can adjust to your specific case.

I highly recommend Blue Seal Vintage Senior. It kept my 30 year old guy blooming. It's extruded (like Rice Crispies), easy to digest and they love it.

Remember, slow and easy, add only one thing at a time so you can watch to see if you get the right results.

Feed companies do a lot of research in making their feeds "complete", you're only second guessing them by adding all kinds of un-necessary supplements.

Good quality hay/feed, lots of fresh, clean water available at all times and exercise. And love, lots and lots of love!

[FlashGordon]

Thanks for the info guys, it is much appreciated.

Aiken4horses, that was an interesting article, thank you.

He's getting lots of grass hay right now, and that is about it. He has so much going on... the abscess, the large laceration, rain rot, a bit of a cough... and so much stress with the move... and having spent the last few months in a field, with no care, and no feed, getting picked on. yikes.

He was looking pretty tired today, tho he did perk up as I worked on him.

I'm reluctant to start grain of any kind at the moment until we get a better idea of how his system is faring... vet is due out again early this week.

[BuddyRoo]

I think that is smart Flash. Give him some time. Grass hay free choice...just do a holding pattern for a few days til you can ALL get your bearings.

If there's anything I can do for you, please PM. Been through this quite recently and have had great results.

One foot in front of the other...one variable at a time. Patience grasshopper.

;)

[FlashGordon]

I think that is smart Flash. Give him some time. Grass hay free choice...just do a holding pattern for a few days til you can ALL get your bearings.

If there's anything I can do for you, please PM. Been through this quite recently and have had great results.

One foot in front of the other...one variable at a time. Patience grasshopper.

;)

Thanks BR. You are right. Patience....

He seems like he is hanging on, and doing ok, but I can't help and worry. They are so fragile, really. And he's had so much change, and his system is so weak.

But I can feel good energy coming from him and I think in time he'll come around. I just need to remember....

Patience.... :)

[Gayla]

I bought/rescued a mare from Craig's list back in April. Her foal is finally weaned this week and after months of good feeding/worming she is perking up and looking good. The feet are a problem but I am only now able to really get into that now that the foal is not our constant companion. She is 18 and as far as I can tell sound. She is a joy to be around. Best 400 bucks I ever spent! :D Good luck...I am sure your guy will be just fine when he gets to you.

[Hampton Bay]

If you find out he is not metabolic, TC makes a senior feed that is really nice. I seem to remember it is 13% NSC, though don't quote me on that. I just remember it is low. It is 12% protein I think, and higher fat. Beet pulp and rice bran based, with just enough oats to make it look textured.

Good luck with the new guy! I'm sure he will be like a new horse in no time!