Cheaper alternative to Halyuronix

[farmgirl]

Hi All, I have my very nice horse on Halyuronix (spelling?) as a preventative measure. I know there was some comparison with Lubrisyn, but is anyone aware of a cheaper alternative at this point? Thanks in advance. fg

[Melyni]

Does it have to be a paste form, can you /will you feed a powder form?

if so do a price comparison between the ones you are using and all the other HA supplements out there.

See if you can find one with 200mg per serving or more.

yours
MW

[farmgirl]

I can feed powdered form. I appreciate the tip re: 200 mg...thanks!

[pinkme]

Smartpak has its own brand supplemnet that was extremly close. I cant remember if I had to use two diffrent supplements or one, but I found a much more economic alternitive to Lubrisyn! I believe I enede up cutting the cost in half!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Hey, check out Conquer. It's about $100+ cheaper (gallon) with the same HA as Hyaluronex! ANd it WORKS!

[bthatasitmay]

ditto the Conquer gel

[Penthilisea]

My understanding is that the HA must be in gel or other semi goo form - the powder molecular size is not absorbed as well by a long shot.

[Nikki17]

I considered putting my mare on HA and talked with my vet about it. New research has found that HA is not absorbed orally. The only HA that actually does anything is the injectable form ie Legends. You may want to research some before wasting your money.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

I considered putting my mare on HA and talked with my vet about it. New research has found that HA is not absorbed orally. The only HA that actually does anything is the injectable form ie Legends. You may want to research some before wasting your money.

You might want to tell my horse that....4 days after going onto a gel HA product he was sound,and has stayed sound. A week after he comes off it, he's lame again. This is a horse whom I was paid out loss of use insurance on because he was so chronically lame.

But yeah, Oral HA doesn't work right?

lol

Even my anti-orals vet conceeded that the product I was using was undeniably working as well as the injectables ;-)

[farmgirl]

If Wishes, which gel do you use? Thanks, fg

[findeight]

Yeah, don't tell my almost 20 year old show Hunter it doesn't work either. Or my vet. We can tell when she is off of it.

But it does not work for all of them and sometimes the Legend is a better choice with at least once a month injection so you know it is there.

I tried several powdered supps. I will say that they did not seem to be absorbed well as the effect was nothing compared to both the gels, Hyalauronex and/or LubriSyn. Whatever, the powders didn't do much, if anything, so the cheaper cost was a total waste of money.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

If Wishes, which gel do you use? Thanks, fg
Hi there,

I use Lubrisyn ;-)

[Oldenburg Mom]

I'm still trying to figure out a way to order from Millburn Equine, as today a gallon of Conquer is only $175.50 ... and that includes shipping!!!

I did a test on Conquer—as I was using Hyaluronex—and the results were exactly the same. So... I switched. Much much cheaper than either H or L.

[findeight]

I'm still trying to figure out a way to order from Millburn Equine, as today a gallon of Conquer is only $175.50 ... and that includes shipping!!!

I did a test on Conquer—as I was using Hyaluronex—and the results were exactly the same. So... I switched. Much much cheaper than either H or L.


Hey, thanks. I'll look into that. BTW Conquer is backed by the vets at Rood and Riddle (as investors).

[Oldenburg Mom]

Hey Findeight, you were the one that turned me on to this stuff way back when.

If you figure out a way to order from Millburn, let me know would you? That's a huge savings ...

[findeight]

Got about 45 days left in the LS. I'll post if I can get the Conquer and where it was...or maybe mention to my vet and he can carry it.

[Janet]

I considered putting my mare on HA and talked with my vet about it. New research has found that HA is not absorbed orally. The only HA that actually does anything is the injectable form ie Legends. You may want to research some before wasting your money.
I use Hyalun. About $0.90 per day.

MY vet says it IS absorbed orally (through the mucus membranes of the mouth), but not well through the stomach (gets digested instead of being absorbed). Which is why you squirt it into the corner of the mouth, rather than putting it on the feed.

[meaty ogre]

I too am very interested in cheap HA. I have 5 horses including 2 rescues, and would like to start most of them on HA, but have been hesitant as I'm not sure if its cost effective. I have been doing adequan for 2 of them but can't afford to put them all on it.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?PGGUID=24D80303-77BF-4447-8FBD-4B660A0E629C&ccd=IFH003&utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=free&utm_content=37994,37993
In my searching I came across this stuff. It has 100mg HA per serving, which is 1/2 of the targe 200mg amount another poster suggested, but at only $60 a gallon I could double the dose and still be well under the $175/gallon conquer price, no?

I wonder if there is a supplier that sells liquid HA by the gallon that might be cheaper still?

[Oldenburg Mom]

Well, I just got off the phone with the manufacturer. I cannot believe that this is the same stuff, but apparently, it sounds like it. $60 a gallon? I'm floored...it does come from a fermentation (as opposed to animal) source, it is a low molecular weight ... I don't know, folks. Have we been taken for a ride with the $200, $300 and $400 a gallon manufacturers?

Somebody want to be a guinea pig and try it?

[meaty ogre]

Hey OM, as far as I can find in my research so far, the HA harvested through yeast fermentation and that harvested from rooster combs is the same molecular weight. High molecular weight is good, so I'm not sure who told you it was low molecular weight? The studies on HA are sparse, but from what I've been able to find on google scholar the lower molecular weights may be more readily absorbed but didn't have the same clinical effect.

At any rate, I still haven't found a lower priced option. I did find one wholesaler but they do not distribute directly to the public. Maybe if I get my hubby to call and buy it through the feed company? I don't know if it would be any cheaper though and then I'd also have to worry about figuring doseage and finding out what solvents were in it and if it's safe. If I do go with this stuff I'll let you know my observations.

Also, I have come across several sites that claim higher efficacy is obtained by oral dosing vs. topdressing, claiming it is more readily absorbed through mucous membranes, though I find that counterintuitive if it is a large molecule...organic chem. and biology are a distant memory though.

[Janet]

Also, I have come across several sites that claim higher efficacy is obtained by oral dosing vs. topdressing, claiming it is more readily absorbed through mucous membranes, though I find that counterintuitive if it is a large molecule...organic chem. and biology are a distant memory though. From what my vet said, the issue isn't the abstract efficacy of the absorbtion. But if it goes into the stomach it gets (partially) digested before it gets to the mucus membranes.

[Oldenburg Mom]

I do NOT trust rooster combs, or indeed any animal source. Why? It just seems wrong to feed an herbivore to another herbivore. I guess the yeast fermentation just seems "cleaner" ... wow, I can't believe I just wrote that. *sigh* Talk about prejudice.

Anyway, what really chaps my @ss is the discrepancy in price. I am very very suspicious we have all been taken to the cleaners ....

[meaty ogre]

Hey O'mom, and anybody else who might care, I ordered the stuff and it came today (boy, valleyvet is quick!).

I also ordered an oral syringe doser so I'll give it to them that way since some claim that is the best absorption route. I'll try to remember to update in a couple weeks to see if I've noticed any difference, though I will tell you in advance I haven't been riding a whole lot lately, and I ride less still when the weather gets too cold!

I will say the stuff smells and tastes delish! Cherry syrup as good as any candy. Yum. I considered putting myself on it just cause it does taste so good but I don't know if its approved for humans? :)

[Oldenburg Mom]

Ah MO, I am VERY VERY VERY interested in how this goes. I mean ... if this stuff works the way the other stuff does, I'm going to explode. The difference in price is HUGE.

Have you tried the others ... e.g., Hyaluronex, Lubrisyn, Conquer...???

[qhgirl1]

I use Hyalun also

[farmgirl]

Hey MO, Just wondering how the testing is going.... thanks, fg

[LarkspurCO]

I have used both Lubrisyn and Conquer Gel and have found them to be equally effective. I did the math as a cost comparison and found Conquer is MUCH less expensive. Prices have changed since then, so I have updated the math, and present the findings here, as a public service to COTH:


Conquer gel is twice as concentrated than Lubrisyn. A half gallon is the equivalent of one gallon of Lubrisyn, which costs $100 more


Conquer Gel - 1/2 gallon stable pack - $250 (http://www.kvvet.com)
10 mg HA per ml – 10 x 1892 ml = 18920 mg HA total
18920 mg / $ 250 = 75.8 mg HA per $1


Conquer Liquid - 1 gallon - $275 (http://www.valleyvet.com)
200 mg HA per ounce (6.76 mg/ml) 6.76 x 3785 ml = 25587 mg HA total
25587/$275 = 93 mg HA per $1


Lubrisyn - 1 gallon - $350 (http://www.lubrisyn.com/)
5 mg HA per ml – 5 x 3785 ml = 18925 mg HA total
18925 mg/$350 = 54 mg HA per $1


Measurements used:
3785 ml per gallon
1892 ml per ½ gallon

[Oldenburg Mom]

Conquer Gel - 1/2 gallon stable pack - $159.95 (http://www.kvvet.com)
15 mg HA per ml – 15 x 1892 ml = 28380 mg HA total
28380 mg / $ 250 = 113.5 mg HA per $1

http://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=2058 $159.95 = 177.43 per $1


Conquer Liquid - 1 gallon - $275 (http://www.valleyvet.com)
200 mg HA per ounce (6.76 mg/ml) 6.76 x 3785 ml = 25587 mg HA total
25587/$275 = 93 mg HA per $1


Lubrisyn - 1 gallon - $350 (http://www.lubrisyn.com/)
5 mg HA per ml – 5 x 3785 ml = 18925 mg HA total
18925 mg/$350 = 54 mg HA per $1

How about this!!!!

[LarkspurCO]

How about this!!!!

Holy cr@p! I think I will buy two! Thank you.

Let me update this:


Conquer Gel - 1/2 gallon stable pack - $250 (http://www.kvvet.com)
15 mg HA per ml – 15 x 1892 ml = 28380 mg HA total
28380 mg / $ 250 = 113.5 mg HA per $1

Super-duper Heartland price -$160 (http://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=2058)
28380 / $160 =
177 mg HA per $1

[LarkspurCO]

Wait a sec - OM - is this the same product with an older label? Just checking.

http://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=2058

[Oldenburg Mom]

Wait a sec - OM - is this the same product with an older label? Just checking.

http://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=2058

Dunno. I'll check though. What do you think?

[LarkspurCO]

Dunno. I'll check though. What do you think?

I don't know. I thought you knew.:lol: The label shown on the Heartland web site isn't the current Conquer gel label.

[meaty ogre]

Hey MO, Just wondering how the testing is going.... thanks, fg

Hey Farmgirl, it's only been a week and I wanted to give it 2 before a full update, but I will say I am encouraged so far.

Also, since I didn't see the flex force in the price comparison chart,
It's 100mg/oz, 128oz in a gallon, so 12800mg for $60
I'm coming up with 213.3mg HA per $1

[A Mouse For Me]

I had been giving my horse Conquer gel and decided to give Flex Force a go as it is MUCH cheaper. I give it two thumbs up! I notice no difference in his response between Flex Force or Conquer (both responses VERY positive.) I dosed both the same way (directly into the mouth via syringe.) I plan on continuing to dose it this way, as this way I am sure he is getting it. It smells great and my horse actually seems to like it, he slurps it out of the syringe.

[Gayla]

So what if you can't get to the barn every day? On top of feed and then in the mouth when you can??

[A Mouse For Me]

I never put it on his feed. If I miss a day, I don't worry about it.

[meaty ogre]

It's been a little over 2 weeks so I'll add my update too, although A Mouse for Me's is probably better since she has tried both products and can compare. I will say I did use the Conquer gel/paste in the dosing syringe (like dewormer) for a couple weeks with one of my horses when it first came out, but I didn't notice a big difference then.

I give the dose via an oral dose syringe, prior to a meal. Nobody has formed an objection to it, they don't run when they see me coming with the yellow gun.

The biggest difference I have seen is with my 24yo paint. He has longer strides and is landing heel first now, a first since I've had him. I have been working on his hoof angles and contracted heels for many months now, and I can't say 100% that the flexforce made the difference (an excellent farrier and good nutrition no doubtedly help), but he does seem more comfortable and willing.

The difference in my TB is very minor, just a general decrease in stiffness I guess is the best way to describe it.

I was sufficiently impressed with it that I started the elderly rescue foster on it, and have noticed that he too is more peppy and seems more comfortable. Again, I can't attribute his improvement solely to the flexforce; he was emaciated when he arrived and I don't doubt the food is primarily responsible for his feeling better.

However, having said all that, I am impressed enough with the product that I will reorder. I'm tempted to reorder now before the company realizes how overpriced the competitors are and jacks their price up too.

A while back I started reading the fine print on Legends and Adequan, and it struck me that with adequan, they say that the serum levels of HA peak at about 2 hours post injection, and then remain at "therapeutic" levels for 96 hours (i.e., 4 days). I guess that is why they push the loading dose so much now, but that's an awful lot of money for a short fix. I felt like I wasn't seeing results with the Adequan, but I admit I was looking for more long-term results, when I really think this product is very short-acting. For me, if I use Adequan again, it will be within a day or so of an event where I want to help ensure my horse's soundness (i.e. like a show or clinic), and I'll do the daily oral dose of flexforce for maintenance. Some people have great luck with Adequan but for me, my $40 is better spent towards a gallon of the flexforce.

[dalpal]

You might want to tell my horse that....4 days after going onto a gel HA product he was sound,and has stayed sound. A week after he comes off it, he's lame again. This is a horse whom I was paid out loss of use insurance on because he was so chronically lame.

But yeah, Oral HA doesn't work right?

lol

Even my anti-orals vet conceeded that the product I was using was undeniably working as well as the injectables ;-)

Amen....my horse is softer than ever on the Lubrisyn. I was afraid that the difference was in my mind, so I had a very skeptical friend get on and ride..and she agreed that he was MUCH softer and could feel a difference.

I'm a skeptic to feed throughs myself.....however, I decided to give the Lubrisyn a go when two barrel racing friends said that they haven't done any hock injections since putthing their horses on Lubrisyn. I do see a difference. The lady at Lubrisyn made a point when she said that the Legends wears off quickly and the feed through does not.

[dalpal]

Also, I have been putting it on my horse's feed and still seeing reults.

[2hsmommy]

Hey Farmgirl, it's only been a week and I wanted to give it 2 before a full update, but I will say I am encouraged so far.

Also, since I didn't see the flex force in the price comparison chart,
It's 100mg/oz, 128oz in a gallon, so 12800mg for $60
I'm coming up with 213.3mg HA per $1

I bought the Flex Force also, about the same time frame and I've gotta say, it's really helped my 18yrold TB.
My horse is moving much more freely, no creaks or anything. Seriously, even at the walk, he can swing me enough to keep a hula hoop going.
I'm happy with the results I've seen.

[Dapple Dawn Farm]

Hey A Mouse For Me...how much of the Flex Force do you give? 100mg or 200mg

[Altamont Sport Horses]

I'm ready to order some of this stuff. So do you still feel Flex Force is just as good and if so who has the best price? Looks like Heartland has gone up quite a bit on their Conquer gel.

And my last question is the Liquid as good as the Gel?

[Oldenburg Mom]

When I spoke to the senior chemist at Flex Force's manufacturer's HQ, I specifically asked why their product was so much less expensive. His reply? "Perhaps it's a reflection of the other companies, not us." Interesting POV. I'll be VERY interested if the prices on L, H and C come down.

[Dapple Dawn Farm]

Well, at that price I think I'll give the FF a try...

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Forgot to ask where you get the Flex Force from (best price)?

[dalpal]

I have used both Lubrisyn and Conquer Gel and have found them to be equally effective. I did the math as a cost comparison and found Conquer is MUCH less expensive. Prices have changed since then, so I have updated the math, and present the findings here, as a public service to COTH:


Conquer Gel - 1/2 gallon stable pack - $250 (http://www.kvvet.com)
15 mg HA per ml – 15 x 1892 ml = 28380 mg HA total
28380 mg / $ 250 = 113.5 mg HA per $1


Conquer Liquid - 1 gallon - $275 (http://www.valleyvet.com)
200 mg HA per ounce (6.76 mg/ml) 6.76 x 3785 ml = 25587 mg HA total
25587/$275 = 93 mg HA per $1


Lubrisyn - 1 gallon - $350 (http://www.lubrisyn.com/)
5 mg HA per ml – 5 x 3785 ml = 18925 mg HA total
18925 mg/$350 = 54 mg HA per $1


Measurements used:
3785 ml per gallon
1892 ml per ½ gallon

Well, considering that Lubrisyn is a gel.....sounds to me as if they are actually cheaper than Conquer...a 1/2 gall on of Lubrisyn is 195.00 retail...the Conquer here says 250.00.

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Has anyone here used Acti-Flex 4000 by Cox Veterinary Lab? It has Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, etc.....and HA 125mg per 1 oz dose.

http://www.coxvetlab.com/products/acti-flex4000.htm

[dalpal]

Has anyone here used Acti-Flex 4000 by Cox Veterinary Lab? It has Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, etc.....and HA 125mg per 1 oz dose.

http://www.coxvetlab.com/products/acti-flex4000.htm

I know many people swear by it...I bought it once and saw no difference.

[2hsmommy]

Has anyone here used Acti-Flex 4000 by Cox Veterinary Lab? It has Glucosamine, Chondroitin, MSM, etc.....and HA 125mg per 1 oz dose.

http://www.coxvetlab.com/products/acti-flex4000.htm

I've been meaning to order it......
I bought the FlexForce b/c of this thread. Really liking the results! And the price!! The Lubrisyn was a little to ouchie on the wallet...
But thanks for reminding me to relook at the Acti-Flex.

[LarissaL]

I used Acti-Flex for about two months. I saw enough improvement that I'd order it again (especially from Big D's with the free-quart-with-gallon-purchase). My TB is 15 and not really arthritic or otherwise stiff. Just not 110%. He pops and cracks a bit after standing, doesn't really offer his hinds for cleaning (rests his toe on the ground instead of lifting it) and zigzags a bit going downhill. No reactions in flexions, adding/reducing work, etc.

I've not tried any other supplement listed here, so don't really have a frame of reference. But on the Acti-Flex, I experienced a lot less cracking, he would offer his hinds and lift them to mid-cannon level and was much more willing and straight on trails. After 2 months, I moved to injectibles. Adequan had a great response, but unfortunately he reacted to the carrier. Ichon (I know, off label use) has improved him, a tad bit greater than the Acti-Flex but significantly less than the Adequan.

I gave the free quart to a teenage STB in the barn who was a little resistant to working in the round pen and on hills. His owner wasn't planning to consult the vet, so I figured what the heck. She reported he was much more willing and began eagerly cruising down hills.

[A Mouse For Me]

Dapple Dawn, I only give a 100mg dose. I see a great response from that in my horse, so I haven't bothered to double dose him.

[Trumpet]

Has anyone ever tried the Flex Force pellets?

[MissKatie]

Anyone feeding Acti-flex put it directly on feed?

[Altamont Sport Horses]

Anyone feeding Acti-flex put it directly on feed?

Acti-Flex 4000? Yes. They eat it fine. The one horse I have kept on it has been doing great. I started using it after a friend of mine was using it on her horse and he no longer needed injections while using the Acti-Flex.

[Skip's Rider]

I just ordered the liquid Force-Flex from Valley Vet. The horse in question has done great on Lubrisyn for the past 4 years. Unfortunately, I just can't afford it anymore. So, keep your fingers crossed for us!

[Cowgirl]

I ordered the Flex Force as well, as it is so inexpensive. I have a 24 year old with carpitis (arthritis and inflammation of the knee joints) and a coming 9 year old mare with no issues except that she's in heavy training (PSG level dressage). The old guy has lately been having some trouble with the cold weather and is pretty stiff to walk so I should be able to tell fairly quickly whether this is helping him or not. I'll give it to my girl as a prevention.

In the past, I have used: legend, adequan, conquer, lubrisyn and hylamotion. I felt (with the old guy) that the legend was superior to the orals. I kept the mare on lubrisyn during show season last summer. She never has had any issues, but she stayed pretty fluid on it.

[Cowgirl]

I just received my Flex Force yesterday, so have not yet started it. I did, however, find some interesting articles:

http://findarticles.com:80/p/articles/mi_m0ISW/is_249/ai_114820697

http://www.southernstates.com/articles/eq/health/spring2007_scooponjoint.jsp

The first one seems to indicate that oral sodium hyaluronate beats the injectable, in terms of serum levels, after seven days. This is consistent with the product information on Legend, which indicates that the effect only lasts about seven days; adequan, four days. It can also imply that the injectables beat the orals for the first seven days. In any event, for consistent levels, the orals do have value.

The second article indicates that it takes about three weeks for levels to build up with the orals to equal the effect of an injectable. So I plan to give it about a month before I decide whether or not it's helping my poor arthritic old horse.

I also read an old Horse Journal article from 2005 that stated that the powders have about a 25% efficacy of the liquid or gel joint supplements. This is consistent with what others have said. Personally, I have experienced this with BL Solution vs. the pellets. I had a much greater positive response to the solution.

[LarkspurCO]

I'm ready to order some of this stuff. So do you still feel Flex Force is just as good and if so who has the best price? Looks like Heartland has gone up quite a bit on their Conquer gel.

And my last question is the Liquid as good as the Gel?

I contacted Kinetic Tech and asked about the Conquer liquid versus the gel. Turns out that they're equally effective, but the gel is more expensive (must cost more to make it). I've been paying extra for gel for no reason!

I also had the wrong concentration for the gel, and have updated my earlier math. It's still much cheaper than Lubrisyn because it is twice as concentrated. Here's the correct info:


Conquer Gel - 1/2 gallon stable pack - $250 (http://www.kvvet.com)
10 mg HA per ml – 10 x 1892 ml = 18920 mg HA total
18920 mg / $ 250 = 75.8 mg HA per $1
1/2 gallon Conquer gel = 189 100 mg servings: $1.32 per serving

Conquer Liquid - 1 gallon - $230 (http://www.heartlandvetsupply.com/cart/product_info.php?products_id=2882)
200 mg HA per ounce (6.76 mg/ml) 6.76 x 3785 ml = 25587 mg HA total
25587/$230 = 111 mg HA per $1
1 gallon Conquer liquid = 256 100 mg servings: $0.90 per serving -
Conquer liquid wins

Lubrisyn - 1 gallon - $350 (http://www.lubrisyn.com/)
5 mg HA per ml – 5 x 3785 ml = 18925 mg HA total
18925 mg/$350 = 54 mg HA per $1
1 gallon Lubrisyn = 189 100 mg servings: $1.85 per serving

[findeight]

My be a little off topic but cannot resist.

I saw a product at a boutique cosmetic and "spa" shop touting a PURE HA GEL serum for the "mature" face.

2 ounces for $58.:eek:

I always think that behind a bottle of "designer water" there is a guy with a garden hose.

You suppose there is a guy with a gallon of LubriSyn behind this one?:rolleyes:

Heck, I've been mixing the stuff with my face grease for 3 years now. For what it costs, the mare can dam well share it;).

[Penthilisea]

Yep, I believe HA is the main ingredient in Restalyn as well.
I had great result with Lubrisyn for years, but now I just feed MSM, much cheaper on the wallet, and I am not keeping my horse working over fences anymore.

[Maybeapril]

Are you guys talking about the Flex Force with HA? I looked at the site and they have a few different options.

[Druid Acres]

Are you guys talking about the Flex Force with HA? I looked at the site and they have a few different options.

I think everybody is talking about this stuff (http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=24d80303-77bf-4447-8fbd-4b660a0e629c). It's liquid HA without the other joint ingredients like glucosamine. WAY cheaper than Conquer and similar products.

This thread has inspired me to order some!

[Maybeapril]

Great thanks. I'm going to order some also. I have about a month's supply of SmartFlex repair that I need to use up and then I'm ordering the flex force. I wonder if he could have both at the same time. Any ideas on that?
So, is the HA the most effective ingredient for joints in things like Smart Flex repair and other joint supplements that have all those other ingredients in them?

[Oldenburg Mom]

I did it! I ordered some from Valley Vet, of the cheap-o stuff.

I was a staunch supporter of "the other stuff", so I will see exactly what the difference is, especially since one of my horses is not sound without it!!!

I feel cheated by the other companies that are charging so much ...

It arrives on Monday/Tuesday. I'll give a report back in a week or 10 days or so.

[etopolsk]

I have always used Ascend from Valley Vet, which has some but not a lot of HA.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=6a4ab79d-6531-4c94-98c6-6cdeffb3d211

Would anyone use both? It is for pony hunters.

[Parker_Rider]

a) I <3 COTH! Can't even say how easy you have made my life trying to pick out supplements for my mare. HA cost per ounce?! Amazing!

b) Bought some Flex Force today after reading this thread. We'll see how it goes, I'm afraid she might be too far gone injury wise, but I'm hopeful! Will update after it comes in.

[Skip's Rider]

Looking forward to seeing what you think O-Mom. I ordered Force Flex from Valley Vet, and horse has been on it for 4 days. He's a 20-year old Appendix QH and had an arthritic left hock when I bought him as a 12-year old. I started him on Lubrisyn 4 years ago after reading about here. He was having a hard time with his lead changes and would swap out even on a circle. He has done great on the Lubrisyn. One time, the Lubrisyn must have frozen during transit because after 4 days on a new container, he started having trouble again. A new supply rectified the problem.

I went straight from giving him Lubrisyn to giving the Force Flex. It's been 4 days now, and so far so good. I think I'll have a better feeling for it after another week to 10 days.

[2horseowner]

I've been using Flex Force for 2 weeks-I can tell a difference in both horses. I use a drench gun instead of top dressing feed. Both don't mind the taste at all. Horses seem to feel freer through hind quarters and pushing evenly. I've been giving an ounce to both. Will probably drop to half ounce next week. I'm glad I waited for this instead of paying the $$$ for the other stuff.

[Cowgirl]

Flex Force is more of a gel than a liquid, FYI. Started it yesterday. Both of my horses lapped it up. It's cherry flavored.

[hollyhorse2000]

OK. I just caved and ordered some. I already do Adequan and Legend, but if I was able to do those a bit less with this stuff, I'll come out ahead. I'll let you know how it goes . . .

[Cowgirl]

Well this is odd, but I swear my old guy is responding to it immediately. He was gimpy in the walk, but not last night. The night before I started him on it and gave him a double dose. Perhaps he was really needing more H.A. We will see how it goes. For the last two weeks, I have had to stop trail riding him because he was gimpy in the walk. I'll have some time to take a look over the weekend, but really I wasn't expecting to see any results for three weeks.

BTW, Valley Vet sells a one ounce pump that fits on the top of gallon jugs. I bought them for mine and it works beautifully.

[hollyhorse2000]

Oh, crap. Wish I'd seen that before I placed my order. In the absence of that, how do you measure out one ounce?

[Cowgirl]

Call them and see if they can add it in. They probably haven't shipped it yet.

Ask around and see if someone has a dosing bottle (i.e. the bottle that one quart amounts of BL solution or other stuff comes in, because you can use that after you clean it up). If you can't find one of those, you can use a syringe. Put some of the stuff in a smaller tupperware container, and suck up about 30ml into a syringe (that's one ounce approx) (i.e. 30 ccs) and use that to squirt in the mouth or on food.

[Skip's Rider]

Well, Skip has been on Flex-Force for almost 2 weeks, and he's doing great! We switched from Lubrisyn and have not noticed any decline in his performance. In fact, his lead changes seem a bit better. But that's probably due to the warmer weather we're having. The point is, so far he's doing at least as well on the Force-Flex, and it costs way less than the Lubrisyn. YAY!!!!!! (keeping fingers crossed that this continues)

[Coreene]

Because of this fabulous thread and alb the wonderful research that some of you have done, may I just say: THANK YOU, LOVE YOU!!! And my horse loves you, too. And so does my wallet.

[hollyhorse2000]

Well, for starters it passed the palatability test, so that's good news.

The quart comes with the top that you squeeze into to measure out an ounce, so that works fine.

Can't say that I'm seeing a change, but I was using it more to stretch out my regular injections that seeing a specific change.

At this price, I'll continue to use it in the can't hurt-might help department.

[Parker_Rider]

Well, more effective or not, I have to squirt it directly in my horse's mouth because she hates the taste!! I think it's definitely helping out with the longevity of her recent injections though, she's moving freer all around, and the target joint (stifle) is freeing up a bit easier once she's warmed up (as opposed to staying stiff throughout the ride like it usually does). So who knows... at $20/month, it's definitely worth keeping her on it!! I'm so glad I saw this thread!!!

[appychik]

Has anyone used the pellets? (See: http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=3913f148-03b4-490f-a6a1-79c1f0f8d3de)

They definitely seem cheap enough to try. Liquids just aren't feesible in a boarding situation... too cold right now to keep with his supps and no guarantee that he'll actually receive it daily as needed.

Oh the joys of boarding!

[Parker_Rider]

Has anyone used the pellets? (See: http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=3913f148-03b4-490f-a6a1-79c1f0f8d3de)

They definitely seem cheap enough to try. Liquids just aren't feesible in a boarding situation... too cold right now to keep with his supps and no guarantee that he'll actually receive it daily as needed.

Oh the joys of boarding!

Oh the joys of boarding indeed... this is why my mare isn't getting her flex force today! haha. I mean, I am by no means an expert on this stuff, but the pellets have the same mgs of HA as the liquid, and it's cheap enough to give it a go. I know a lot of people are squirting the liquid on feed anyway, so essentially the same means of feeding it to them. I'd try it and see if it makes any difference. I saw your videos on the other thread, and it looks like this might help your boys, especially since they're in rehab for joint related lameness. Let us know how it works if you get it!

[OdhinnsMom]

I'd be really interested to know how many people are giving the cheapo stuff as a top dressing or squirting it in their mouth...so those of you posting updates (THANKS!!!), it would be really great if you could include that info. too!!:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin:

[Parker_Rider]

I'd be really interested to know how many people are giving the cheapo stuff as a top dressing or squirting it in their mouth...so those of you posting updates (THANKS!!!), it would be really great if you could include that info. too!!:winkgrin::winkgrin::winkgrin:

I'm squirting it in my mare's mouth just because she hates the taste and won't eat it as a top dressing. But apparently she's the only one who doesn't like it :)

[Oldenburg Mom]

Looking forward to seeing what you think O-Mom.

Started two horses on it and within 24 hours, bingo! They are moving so much better, and their attitude is less cranky.

I'm FURIOUS at the other companies ... simply furious! This is the same stuff I've been paying $300-$400+ a gallon for. Do you know how many $1,000's I've blown through! Grrrrrrrrrr :mad::mad::mad::mad:

I feel so gullible!

[Personal Champ]

I've been following this with interest. I had a student order it for the real Personal Champ, we started it yesterday.

So far, so good. He's not really fit, so he tends to be stiff when we start, even with lots of walking. Today, even with the damp and cold weather, his trot was more loose immediately. We are squirting directly into the mouth.

I will probably be starting another TB on it in the next few days. This guy is 11, minimal miles, but was left to stand in a stall his whole life and his hocks are stabby.

[2horseowner]

My 2 horses are doing really well on-3+weeks. The only issue is I'm at a boarding barn, and I give it w/ the drench gun. To make things easier, I'm going to buy the pellets next time. One likes the taste, the other thinks it's yucky and runs if he sees the drench gun! A really great product.

[Cowgirl]

I am giving my horses a cup of sweet feed and putting it on top of that. They eat it right up.

I can feel a difference in my coming 9 year old mare who has been on it two weeks now. She is schooling PSG and she seems more supple to warm up and more willing to sit down on her hocks in this difficult new work she is doing. Last summer, I had her on Lubrisyn during show season, but I didn't notice any difference. Last summer, however, she was only showing 2nd and 3rd level and probably didn't need the additional support.

FWIW, The Horse Journal did a study a while back on the efficacy of powdered HA supplements vs. the liquids and gels and they found that the powder only had about a 20% efficacy compared to the liquid or gel supplements. I find this to be true with BL Solution as well (the pellets did nothing for my old guy, but the liquid gave him pain relief). Both of my horses were getting double dosed with Corta RX powder (HAHA Simke, I bought the last case they had in the US) and that gave them 80 mg of powdered HA per day. But the addition of the FlexForce seems to have done something to make my mare a little more supple and fluid.

It will be interesting to see if anyone thinks the pellets are doing anything.

BTW, as far as cheap joint supplements go, I noticed that Walmart carries human grade Glucosamine Sulfate (the better form of Glucosamine) that would cost about $20 per month to feed 10,000mg per day. The horse form of MSM is cheaper than the human form, though.

[canyonoak]

Bumping this up and asking those who have been using the stuff for 30 days or more to say if they still like it/notice a difference/feel it is comparable to the more expensive stuff?

I have no problem paying less and believing in efficacy,LOL: after all, lipstick all comes from the same 2-3 manufacturers, gets stuck in a tube, and then is priced according to the name on it, the advertising budget and the targeted audience.

I have ordered a gallon of each--Flex Force HA and the other one with more stuff in it.
But always nice to get more data.

thanks,

[2horseowner]

FWIW-I have been on it for at least a month, vet came out to see horse and noticed how much freer he looked-really stepping under and round. I told her what that I was using Flex-Force HA liquid. She was impressed. I had been using a syringe to give it, but got tired of that, so I just top dress the feed now. I think this is a really good product.

[Dapple Dawn Farm]

My guy's been on the flex force for about 3 months now. I started giving it to him when I noticed he had a "hitch" in his gait every now and again...I haven't seen/felt the "hitch" since..FWIW...

[Skip's Rider]

My horse has been on it for about a month and is still doing great. We switched from Lubrisyn and haven't noticed any decline in performance.

[badawg]

I ordered the pellets for my young mare with no real issues. Just getting into our hard training season. I know, I know...there isn't really any point in feeding joint supps prophylacticlly, but it makes me feel better. But, I'll let you know if I notice any difference!

[OkLurchers]

Awesome thread! Have any of you used Corta-Rx HA liquid? I was wondering how Flex Force compared to it.

[Cowgirl]

FlexForce is made by the CortaFlx company, fyi. I had been using CortaRx powder supplement (the one they discontinued last year and replaced with more expensive pellets, and i bought a case when they did that! LOL) It has 40 mg HA in it and I was double dosing both my horses.

I added the FlexForce to that, and I did notice a difference in my mare. She is much more supple to warm up and more willing to sit on her hocks. I have been feeding it about a month now and will continue. I am very very pleased for the price.

[Sabovee]

I've had 5 horses on it for the past 3 weeks. These include...

14 yo TB @ PSG and just starting BN eventing - no lameness issues, but I have noticed a marked improvement in the quality of his work/freeness over his back - he has also stopped the occassional buck in the canter :)

14 yo TB @ 1st level - hock arthritis. Horse is going SUPER, he's never felt so good. Had hocks injected in the fall, but I feel like it's helping to maintain them and bring him to a level I haven't felt before.

11 yo TB rehabbing - has previous lameness/stiffness/hock issues.

10 yo Canadian @ 3rd - much more freedom in his work, increased ability to sit, quicker to unlock his back in warmup

9 yo TB @ TL - Showing more suspension, overstep and freedom.

I initially gave the full ounce dose for the first week and now am maintaining it with the 1/2 ounce. I give it to all but one directly into the mouth via syringe.

I LOVE THIS SUPPLEMENT.

[spacehorse]

I am also jumping on the bandwagon. My OTTB has been on Corta Flx Rx, the one that has 100 mg HA per 1/2 oz. I am curious to see how he responds to this, as this has no painkillers in it. I will also keep everyone posted.

[Druid Acres]

My draft cross with ringbone has been on it for about 3 weeks now. He is definitely feeling better - galloping and bucking in the pasture yesterday and trotting sound for the first time in months. He hates the winter cold and hard ground, so the spring weather is helping him too. I also started him on some MSM, so maybe that's kicking in as well.

Considering the cost though, I'm happy with the Flex Force and will keep my horse on it indefinitely.

[Cowgirl]

I am keeping my mare on the one ounce dose. She is also still getting the powdered HA in the corta rx, but I don't think it does anything.

[LookinSouth]

BTW, as far as cheap joint supplements go, I noticed that Walmart carries human grade Glucosamine Sulfate (the better form of Glucosamine) that would cost about $20 per month to feed 10,000mg per day. The horse form of MSM is cheaper than the human form, though.


flex force makes a glucosamine as well for a pretty good price. 14,000 mg per ounce

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=f35d26bd-0a0b-4271-ac75-9444bb5af2e4

[canyonoak]

Thanks for the replies!!

I ordered a gallon of the straight hyaluronic acid and a gallon of the Flex-Force with HA and will report back in about 30 days..

and for those who are still thinking about ordering:
valley vet supply has both items on SALE in the latest catalog (Equine Edition Spring 2009)

[prbygenny]

Hi, I have also been one watching this thread for a while and have finally decided to give this a try but I have a few questions that maybe someone could help me with.
1st when you ordered how did you have it delivered? I know it is suppose to be in a cool place and am wondering if anyone had it delivered reg. mail was it ok?
2nd I board and am wondering for those who board how are you giving this to them if you can not be there everyday? I know my BO would pour it on the food but will that work?
3rd How are you storing it? We do not have a fridge in our barn so do you keep it in your house fridge and bring it to the barn everyday? What about if you are a boarder how do you keep it if you want your BO to give it to your horse. ( I am mostly wondering about when the real summer heat comes and it gets really humid, how will people store it)
TIA.

[LookinSouth]

Hi, I have also been one watching this thread for a while and have finally decided to give this a try but I have a few questions that maybe someone could help me with.
1st when you ordered how did you have it delivered? I know it is suppose to be in a cool place and am wondering if anyone had it delivered reg. mail was it ok?
2nd I board and am wondering for those who board how are you giving this to them if you can not be there everyday? I know my BO would pour it on the food but will that work?
3rd How are you storing it? We do not have a fridge in our barn so do you keep it in your house fridge and bring it to the barn everyday? What about if you are a boarder how do you keep it if you want your BO to give it to your horse. ( I am mostly wondering about when the real summer heat comes and it gets really humid, how will people store it)
TIA.

these are great questions and ones I have not really thought much about since at the moment I have my horse at home (we rent house/property). However, this is likely to change for me come summer/fall and I will probably be boarding. If you are one of those boarders who goes to the barn every.single.day (like me when I boarded) it might just be easiest to bring the supplement dosed out in a container and pour it on a small amount of grain?
Feed it as soon as you get there and your horse will be getting his supplement everyday. Or if my BO had a fridge I would just keep it there and dose it myself when I got to the barn.

[2horseowner]

I have decided to switch to the HA pellets for the summer. I bag my supps, so it'll be easier this way. I do prefer the liquid, so I hope the results will stay the same.

[Druid Acres]

To answer an earlier question about feeding liquid supplements:

Where I board, the horses are fed free-choice hay but the owner generally feeds anything else if they choose to do so. My horse gets such a small amount of pellets that it's easiest for me to store his feed at home. I also keep my supplements at home and mix everything up myself in recycled supplement buckets (I like them because they have lids). I then take a bucket out whenever I go to the barn. With my system, everything is stored where it's cool, things are mixed correctly, and major spillages don't occur.

In the summer (and yes, this is slightly crazy) I keep a cooler in my car with that blue ice stuff and keep the bucket in there so it doesn't cook in the heat. Also, I've learned that if I miss a day and don't get to the barn, MY HORSE WILL NOT DIE! That was quite a revelation for me.

I've been using my system for a couple of years now, and so far so good.

[eidra]

Any ideas on how to get this stuff to Canada? Valley Vet doesn't seem to ship up here, and I would love to try this stuff on my horse!

[Little Indian]

Conquer has 200mg of HA per serving and is pretty reasonable.

[spacehorse]

Has anyone else been able to locate this stuff anywhere else other than Valley Vet?

It will cost me an additional $16 for 'shipping and handling'. :eek:

I checked Jeffers, KV. This stuff isn't even on the Corta Flx site...

[2horseowner]

KBC International has it, but you have to call to see if it's in stock. I wish I could find it at another place w/ cheaper shipping too. Anyone else?

[purplnurpl]

I'll give it a go.

I'm pretty much not on the band wagon but I need something quick.
I'll report back. If I see a difference you'll know it really worked for my horse. Currently I give Legend monthly.

[Calamber]

Conquer has Propylene Glycol and a preservative in it. Neither of which I would feed to a horse if I can avoid it.

[spacehorse]

KBC International has it, but you have to call to see if it's in stock. I wish I could find it at another place w/ cheaper shipping too. Anyone else?

I did see Flex Force stuff there- but I did not see the specific HA product that it seems only Valley Vet stocks? :confused:

[LookinSouth]

Has anyone else been able to locate this stuff anywhere else other than Valley Vet?

It will cost me an additional $16 for 'shipping and handling'. :eek:

...

I was wondering the same thing. My husband wasn't pleased about the 16.00 shipping and handling charge, quite frankly neither am I! :no:

[2horseowner]

I went back to KBC, and the only Flex-Force HA was in pellets., (4lbs). I wonder why they quit carrying the liquid? I am going to email the company and see who else sell it. I agree that $16 to ship is ridiculous. Sounds like Dover's shipping.

[meaty ogre]

I've seen the flex force HA 200 (200mg per ounce) on e-bay. You'll have to plug in your zip code to check shipping...may or may not save you $.

[2horseowner]

Holy Cow! I went on ebay and it's $94.50/gallon PLUS SHIPPING! A 4lb bucket of HA pellets is $67 + Shipping!:eek: I think I paid $75 total even w/ the $16 shipping. Usually ebay has good deals, but not this time.

[LookinSouth]

Holy Cow! I went on ebay and it's $94.50/gallon PLUS SHIPPING! A 4lb bucket of HA pellets is $67 + Shipping!:eek: I think I paid $75 total even w/ the $16 shipping. Usually ebay has good deals, but not this time.


but if the gallon is 200mg per ounce then feeding a 1/2 ounce would be equivalent to the regular Flex force sold at VV that is only 100mg per 1 ounce serving. So I think the ebay gallon ends up giving you more bang for the buck.

[2horseowner]

My inability to read completely! You're right about "more bang for the buck", can you find the 200mg any where else?

[LookinSouth]

My inability to read completely! You're right about "more bang for the buck", can you find the 200mg any where else?


I haven't found it anywhere but it sure would be nice huh?

[acking01]

I just started my horse on Grand HA a couple of days ago. It's an apple-flavored powdered supplement that has 200mg of HA per ounce. I ordered mine from Smartpak for $42 a month. Hopefully it'll do the trick and I'll let ya'll know if I notice a difference.

[Maybeapril]

Any updates on your horses who have been on this stuff for a while now?

[appychik]

Gus is on the Flex Force HA pellets, at 1oz a day (so 100mg HA daily). I've not noticed any more lameness, then what's normal for him. He's been on it for about 60 days, give or take a bit. He does seem to be slightly better, but now we're dealing with another issue (had a run-in with the electric fence).

Just started Gringo on 1oz daily last week. We'll see if I notice any improvement... as he's pretty much "dead" lame right now again (has old coffin bone fracture that just won't heal).

FWIW, shipping and handling for me is around $13. I always end up ordering more Magnesium 5000 pellets too... not sure if that makes any difference at all (more FOB weight?).

Anyways, the product is cheap enough and it certainly isn't hurting anything, so it's worth a shot in my book.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Holy Smokes. I didn't realize this thread had taken off again!! I'm waaay behind.

UPDATE: I just ordered my second gallon ... not yet out of my first. I've got two horses on it. The acid test is my mare—she is NOT sound without this supplelment—and I had her on the "higher priced" stuff when she was in work. Ok, she has been out of work for almost two years now ... she had a foal last year ... and she has started in work again. I DO give her an extra ounce 1 hour before she is worked.

Results: so far, sound as a dollar, just like the "higher priced spread" (for those of you who remember the old margarine commercials!! :lol:)

Ha! I'm thrilled. Oh, and by the way, the new stuff is now slightly pink! :lol:

Meaty Ogre—you were the one that found the stuff!!! Thanks a TON!!!

[meaty ogre]

Aw, shucks, t'weren't nothin', ma'am. :)

I was shocked to find such a price discrepancy! Since I'm pregnant and my herd is relegated to pasture-mowing as their current exercise, I've not re-ordered. Upon stopping, I did notice my TB seems stiff behind. Fortunately his farrier has done wonders for his front-end issues. When I put him back to work I'm definitely going to re-order this. HA is the only oral supplement I've noticed any difference with (glucosamine, chondroitin, msm in various dosages and combinations/brands did nothing for any of the horses I tried them on). It does seem to go a long way (gallon lasted months for a couple of horses) so definitely worth the cost for me, and I am pretty darn cheap if I do say so myself.

I keep checking back to make sure they haven't jacked the price up due to COTH-induced buying surge, but so far so good!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Well, I'm grateful beyond measure! I'm just p!ssed at all the other manufacturers.

The sad thing is there's no competition on the price ... as nobody else is selling it!!!! Go figure!

[OkLurchers]

I put my WB mare on the HA from Valley Vet after reading this thread in March. So far, so good. I think she's more comfortable on it. She was diagnosed with a bit of high ringbone in Feb.; vet said to "give her a bit of bute before hard work." Injecting coffin joint was an option "if I planned to run her up & down the road" (translation: good idea if I were going to show her a lot). She was bred week before last (pg test next week!!), I thought the HA would be a good try since I'm going to keep her fit as possible.
I've been doing oral dosing daily, but I have a question for you experts: I give about 2oz b/c that seems to be equal to 200mg--is that right?

And, thank you, thank you Meaty Ogre, you rock!

[Skip's Rider]

Like O-Mom, I'm extremely grateful. This thread appeared right at the time when I knew I couldn't afford the expensive stuff anymore. We're not quite finished with the first gallon, and I'm THRILLED with this stuff! Horse seems to be going better than ever, and I'm saving a mint.

[Oldenburg Mom]

...when I knew I couldn't afford the expensive stuff anymore.

That's what happened to me too.

It's very poor business management (IMHO), as well, that will literally kill the "goose" (us) that laid the golden egg. I would be crowing about the "higher priced spread" if they hadn't been so greedy. But now ... I hope they crash and burn!

[Maybeapril]

I ordered a gallon, I can't wait for it to get here! I will let everybody know how my guy does on it. He has a little over a year old torn lateral meniscus in his stifle. He is pretty sound at the walk, but some days he seems stiff. I want him to be comfy. He was on Furnace EQ from Thera cell which was really helping but expensive. I've taken him off it and I can tell the difference. I'm hoping HA will work since it's so much less expensive.

[Coreene]

Every day when I push down on the pump - had to get a pump, measuring it out was driving me mad - I thank this thread. Cheers!!!

[RealityCheck]

Does this need to be kept refrigerated?

[Oldenburg Mom]

Nope. Well, at least I'm not keeping mine in the fridge.

[JB]

Every day when I push down on the pump - had to get a pump, measuring it out was driving me mad - I thank this thread. Cheers!!!

I still don't have a pump, but I keep a great deal of my scoops that come with the varying supps and vitamins and whatnot, over the years. I have one scoop that holds 29.6cc :lol: So, a little glug into that and I'm right at the 30cc mark :D

It doesn't get grungy because I have to add a little water to the ration anyway due to the powdered nature of some of Fat Boy's supplements, so the little scoop just gets cleaned as I pour the water - double duty :D

[Skip's Rider]

I'm still extremely happy with Flex-Force. My horse actually seems to be doing better on it than on the higher priced stuff. His lead changes are better than ever, and that says something for a 20-year old horse. Just bought my 2nd gallon. Even with the freight charge, it's still way less money than I was spending before.

[appychik]

Not sure if I ever posted about my experiences, but I love the stuff too. Gus is on the pelleted stuff and it seems to be making a HUGE difference. Gus's strides are more fluid and he doesn't have as many "hitches" as he did prior to starting the Flex Force HA pellets. I'd love to do the liquid, but it's just not feasible in my boarding situation.

I did try the product on Gringo. Granted I didn't do more then a couple weeks, but I've not noticed any changes. I think he's just destined to be a gimp (fractured coffin bone).

FWIW, Gus has been on the Flex Force HA for about 70 days. LOVE the product... a lot!

[MoonPie730]

I read this thread and I think I want to give Flex Force a try with my 9 yr old holsteiner mare. We have not had any soundness issues with her so far and we have not had to give her injections so far, it would be more as a preventative. I do have two questions however, first does it need to be refridgerated? Second, do the pellets work just as well as the liquid?

[appychik]

I read this thread and I think I want to give Flex Force a try with my 9 yr old holsteiner mare. We have not had any soundness issues with her so far and we have not had to give her injections so far, it would be more as a preventative. I do have two questions however, first does it need to be refridgerated? Second, do the pellets work just as well as the liquid?

I don't think it needs to be refridgerated (but don't quote me on that). Secondly... I've only used the pellets and I do think they've helped Gus out a lot. Not sure how they'd compare to the liquid... same concentration of HA though. :yes:

[Oldenburg Mom]

Many people feel the liquid works better than the pellets ... but having never tried the pellets, I couldn't say. Many times I will put the solution directly into the mouth ... whether or not it is absorbed more quickly or better ... I couldn't say.

Boy, this is a helpful reply, isn't it. :rolleyes:

[MoonPie730]

Okay so does the liquid version need to be refridgerated? I can do liquid, it would be easier to do pellets, but liquid is defintitely doable. I will most likely have to do pellets or put it on top of her grain. Anyone else use pellets and see comparable results?

I would love to know if it needs to be refridgerated, that will help me make the decision btwn pellets and liquid.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Refrigerated, no, IMHO. Unless maybe you live in Phoenix. I've been using this—or a comparable—for years and I've never had a problem.

[Coreene]

I don't refrigerate mine, just squirt it into his feed and we're off and running.

[SaddleFitterVA]

I have 4 horses in my barn getting the Flex Free. I use the Lubrisyn pump and bottle (fits better). A scoop would not work for me. Too messy.

I will say, I tasted both it and the lubrisyn and the Flex Free is sweet and cherry. The Lubrisyn was rather tasteless...just the same slimy texture.

I do not refrigerate.

[KrazyTBMare]

I ordered Flex Force about 3 weeks ago. And I am loving the results. My mare responds really well to HA supplements and I had her on Hyla Rx but it was a little pricey. She has a tendancy to get sticky behind esp in the canter. But the last 1.5 wks her canter has been AMAZING. Just absolutely wonderful. I am really loving this stuff. And I LOVE the pump!

[MoonPie730]

Thank you everybody! Okay I will be ordering the liquid since I don't need to refridgerate. Can I squirt it on top of the the feed, is that as effective as in her mouth? Should I be supplementing her before I ride her? Does anybody give the 2nd dose on days they are jumping, showing, or just a hard work out in general? This will be my first time giving a joint supplement, so i want to be thorough.

[Oldenburg Mom]

I have one horse that is not sound without it. I give it to her every day in her feed in the morning. The evenings I ride (when I get home) I ask the person that feeds—about 3 hours before I ride—to give her a full dose in the mouth.

Is it necessary? I haven't a clue ... but it makes ME feel better.

[Bedrock]

At kv it is 55.00 per gallon plus 8.00 shipping and it has 100 mg ha per ounce. Maybe spreading 20 tons of sand by hand this morning has my mind in a boggle, but I figure this to be a pretty good deal. 1 ounce = 30 ml Am i right or just a little confused by the heat?!

[Skip's Rider]

Moonpie, I find it sufficient to supplement my horse one time per day. He gets 30 ml (100 mg) in the evening top-dressed on his grain. When I started giving him Lubrisyn a few years ago, I found that the recommended 75 mg wasn't quite enough for him but 100 mg worked just fine. So, the recommendations aren't written in stone. I would start out supplementing once a day and see how it goes.

[Maybeapril]

Force Flex has worked wonders on my gelding, he's been on it about a month. He has a torn lateral meniscus and he went from being off at the trot in the pasture to being sound at the trot in the pasture. It has been too hot for me to ride and start bringing him back, so I'm not sure how he will do undersaddle, but I have be extremely impressed!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Well, hold on to yer butts, people. Get this: they've just come out with a 200mg per ounce version! It's being sold on ebay for 94 + 12 shipping. That means you get to use half a much (15 cc's)

Let me just say this: for all the others out there that are selling this stuff at much higher rates ... what a bunch of CROOKS!

[Skip's Rider]

Well, hold on to yer butts, people. Get this: they've just come out with a 200mg per ounce version! It's being sold on ebay for 94 + 12 shipping. That means you get to use half a much (15 cc's)

Let me just say this: for all the others out there that are selling this stuff at much higher rates ... what a bunch of CROOKS!

YAY!!! This will cut down on the shipping costs overall. Crooks -- you got that right.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Skip's Rider,

Wow, you aren't kidding ... I'm really glad about the thread, though. It sounds like many people have made the switch. The killer detail: I found out today that VV actually told the manufacturer they were charging too little. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: Do NOT ask me how I found out!!

[Horsezee]

Anyone know where I can get a pump for the gallon of the Flex Force HA? The pumps I already have on hand do not look like they will fit. TIA :)

[tisor]

i have a yearling that soffered a kick to the fetlock and had to have arthroscopic surgeru after some cartiledge damage. hes been getting adequan and legend shots and though those have run their recommended course im supposed to continue with osteon and platinum... somethign else insanely expensive...

will this replace that? boy is going sound now by the way!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Anyone know where I can get a pump for the gallon of the Flex Force HA? The pumps I already have on hand do not look like they will fit. TIA :)

Yup, V. V. has one. Just ask for the gallon pump ... it's about 3.00 or so.

[Horsezee]

Yup, V. V. has one. Just ask for the gallon pump ... it's about 3.00 or so.

THANKS! :)

[retrofit]

I have used Conquer, Lubrisyn, and Hyaluronex. My horse responds equally well to all 3, provided he gets 100+ mg of HA daily. I comparison shop & buy a large container. As long as it ends up <$50/month, I'm good with that.

I found that the liquid was even more temperature-sensitive than the gel. I made the mistake of ordering a gallon of liquid in January. It probably froze in some UPS warehouse along the way. Within 2 weeks, my horse's joints were clicking like crazy and he was stiff & resistant. Kinetic (makers of Conquer) replaced it with a 10-pack of gel. I thought that was pretty decent of them. Ever since that experience, I stick with the gel.

[Skip's Rider]

.....The killer detail: I found out today that VV actually told the manufacturer they were charging too little. :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: Do NOT ask me how I found out!!

NOOOOOOO!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: I have talked with the Corta-Flx people on the phone and found them to be very level-headed. Let's keep our fingers crossed that they don't listen to VV.

[Cowgirl]

I am half way through my second gallon and still pleased with it. BTW, it is more economical to order two gallons at once: the shipping is only like two dollars more for the second gallon.

For shows or when I can't be at the barn, I went to REI (any camping store as well as the Container Store also has them) and bought a dozen one ounce nalgene bottles (they do not leak). I just squirt into those from my gallon and leave them for the BO to dump on the feed. They also give me premeasured doses for shows. Here's a link: http://www.rei.com/product/402057

If anyone is near a Vetline or Vetlink store, they sell the gallon pumps there too.

I think it would be a good question to ask the CortaFlx folks about heat sensitivity. I'd like to order another two gallons, but am afraid to do so at this time of year.

Flex Force does have a powdered glucosamine supplement, but it contains the other form of glucosamine that is not as well absorbed. I would still buy the human stuff from Walmart over any of the horse glucosamine supplements.

[lemonpoppy]

I have a question about this stuff (and actually all HA supplements in general). Everything I've ever read on the subject has said high molecular weight is better, and low molecular weight HA fragments could even be pro-inflammatory.

But on the label of the Flex Force HA it says low molecular weight. So what's the deal? Is molecular weight actually not all that important?

[Sabovee]

Just ordered another gallon of the Flex Force from VV - label is the same as the last batch but it is slightly pink instead of white/clear... anyone else noticed this?

[Skip's Rider]

Yes, mine is slightly pink too, but it seems to work as well as ever.

[Iwantapony]

Can someone provide a link to the seller on ebay? My search didn't turn up the quoted price. Thanks!

[Oldenburg Mom]

Search for Flex-Force. That will bring up the store that carries them ...

[EquineLVR]

resurecting this..I am also ordering the Flex Force today.. but do you need to keep the glucosamine supplement?

I have mine on the Acti Flex 4000 and does not seem to be doing much so I am going to switch to the Flex Force, but didnt know if I should keep some of the other items in teh powered form like MSM and Glucosamine..

Thoughts?

[Cowgirl]

EquineLVR, seeing that you are from my area, you probably know Dr. Swanson? He really wants people to use MSM. It's a potent anti-inflammatory, as well as providing some building blocks for the joint. I've taken it myself and it really does work as an anti-inflammatory. Since arthritis is caused by inflammation, I would continue to give MSM.

I just added the Flex Force to my regular cortaflx/msm regimen and didn't remove anything. But now I think I'm going to go to adequan and msm. At some point, you are spending enough that you can do frequent adequan injections instead. I like the Flex Force HA, but don't think any of the orals can compete with the injectables.

[Skip's Rider]

I stopped giving Cosequin shortly after I started my older guy on Lubrisyn about 5 years ago and have never looked back. Short recap -- he had an arthritic hock when I bought him as a 12-year-old. Put him on Cosequin, but after a few years, he needed something more. Started Lubrisyn -- it worked great! Stopped the Cosequin -- no change. I switched to Flex-Force a while ago because of the cost and actually think my guy is better on Flex-Force than on Lubrisyn. BTW, he's now almost 21 years old and is doing GREAT! Flex-Force is the only supplement he gets.

[Tegan]

Bringing this back up for a quick question.

For those that have had success, do you feed a joint supplement with MSM, Chondroitin, and Glucosamine, or just the FlexForce alone?

I've always used oral joint supplements as a preventative but haven't ever noticed a huge difference. So I'm going to try this force flex!

For my mare, I think I'll keep her on SmartFlex I Support while adding the FlexForce because I'm quite overprotective of her.
My gelding is on 5,000g MSM in his breathing supplement, so I think I will try adding the Flexforce to that and scratching the oral joint supplement.


Has anyone found the difference between a low molecular weight HA and a high molecular weight HA? It seems that the low (in the flexforce) may be less effective?

[shadytrake]

I would like to resurrect this thread for some long-term updates.

So how is everyone doing on the Flex-Force? Still using it?

I have been reading this thread with great interest and think it is worth a try on my gelding.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Well, let's see. I'm on my 5th or 6th case? I'm sold...

st, I sent you a PM.

[Lexus]

I use it as a preventative on a 6 year old 17h Dutch WBX and an 8 year old large pony campaigning in the regulars. Neither has issues **knock on wood** so I have never noticed a real difference. I use in order to give them both long and comfortable competitive careers.

[Skip's Rider]

I'm still using it on my 21-year-old, and he's doing great. I also put my 10-yr-old on it. Folks in my barn were so impressed with what it has done for my older guy that at least 7 other horses in the barn are now on it.

[kgro632]

I ordered Flex Force Sodium Hyluronate because of this thread. I started out with the 32 day 100 mg dose quart. I just recieved my gallon.

Well I'm sold. My horse got hock injections in April and I started him on this a month ago.

Well, my farrier came today and commented on how much more comfortable he seems in his hocks. He saw an improvement after the injections but even more so today.

I guess he has now been shod twice since he recieved the injections, once before the Flex force and then today after the 30 day.

Is it the Sodium Hylauronate? I really don't care!! I'm sold. It's cheap and if it helps his hocks feel better I'm all for it!!!!

Thanks to everyone that has kept an update on how their horses have been on this supplement!

[shadytrake]

Just a quick update. I quit using the "generic" injection and switched to the Flex Force Sodium Hyaluronate Solution from Valley Vet and let me say this stuff is amazing for the price!!

I got a drench gun and give the gel orally whenever I go to the barn for a lesson plus my trainer gives it to my gelding on the days she rides him. He basically is getting it 4 times a week in the double dose. He loves the cherry flavor!

My trainer and I were not really expecting much of a result but after 2 months, my guy is more flexible and is getting his lead changes much easier. He also seems to have an even better work ethic (and he was a hard worker already).

We are schooling to 3' now and hope to go 3'3" and 3'6" by next year. I do add in the Legend shot before a show as an extra helper. I am so excited that I didn't have to go with joint injections.

I am sold.

[Haf N Haf]

I feel confident in trying this now that I've read through this thread. I'm a little worried about how to deal with this supplement during the freezing months as nowhere in my barn is protected from the elements. But maybe I can bribe my BO to keep it in her house and feed it to my guy or bring it with me at night and keep it in my car while I'm at the barn.

I was getting ready to order Conquer paste but I feel much more comfortable with the price of this.

My guy just got his stifles injected and is going fabulously, but these are his second injections this year (first time in January) and the vet said he'll probably need them every 6 months.

He's on SmartFlex senior and Adequan, but I'd like to see how long I can extend the time between injections.

[KrazyTBMare]

I did not have an issue with the HA freezing though we dont get the freezing temps like up north. However, last winter we had over 2 weeks where we had over 6hrs at night below 20 degrees. I also feed the Flex Force liquid MSM and in the winter the MSM did get very thick and would not work in the pump.

[retrofit]

Haf n Haf - Get a small fridge & keep it in there.

[Haf N Haf]

Haf n Haf - Get a small fridge & keep it in there.


My barn is a little "rustic." :lol: There's no where to plug in a fridge. In fact, if I want to use my clippers, I have to drag out this huge extension cord from way inside the tack room.

But my horsey gets to live outside 24/7 and he gets to eat grass and he's really happy!

He ate it last night for the first time (as I just got it) and he LOVED it. He's always been a pretty good eater, but I've never tried a liquid. My BO gave me an old deworming tube. But I found that hard to fill. I think a clear one might be easier. Or a small tupperware type container...

For those that board and use this, what do you find to be the best approach? It's going to be easiest to keep it at home.

Does anyone add it to something at home and take it there? I'd thought about doing that, but I worried it would make it soggy on the drive out there. Barn is 30 minutes from home.

[KC and the Sunshine Band]

Hi All, I have my very nice horse on Halyuronix (spelling?) as a preventative measure. I know there was some comparison with Lubrisyn, but is anyone aware of a cheaper alternative at this point? Thanks in advance. fg


Careful now, the H. dealer will come on here and bitchslap you for thinking you should try anything else. Lots of alternatives out there regardless of what someone might say about it.

[Druid Acres]

My horse with ringbone still gets the Flex Force HA and is still doing well. I've decided that this winter I'm going to switch to the pelleted form (also available from Valley Vet) to avoid the freezing issue (my barn is rustic as well).

Flex Force also has a pelleted MSM that I use too -- the combo of these two inexpensive supplements, plus my good farrier, seem to keep my horse comfortable.

[Oldenburg Mom]

Druid Acres,

I would not go with the pellets. They are far less effective ... and I think you'll find that those that have tried them agree. I could be wrong ... but I believe that is the consensus.

BTW, everyone, there's a lady on Ebay selling the 200 mg per serving for less than $40, delivered.

THAT is cheaper than wholesale, delivered.

[KrazyTBMare]

Druid Acres,

I would not go with the pellets. They are far less effective ... and I think you'll find that those that have tried them agree. I could be wrong ... but I believe that is the consensus.

BTW, everyone, there's a lady on Ebay selling the 200 mg per serving for less than $40, delivered.

THAT is cheaper than wholesale, delivered.


Found that. Interesting that she is selling that as I have searched ALL over and cannot find that product listed for sale anywhere. It def is cheaper as the quart of the 100mg HA is $25 + shipping and her quart with 200mg HA is $32 + shipping. Wish it was offered in a gallon size. Though its still a great price. Thanks for posting.

[appychik]

I would not go with the pellets. They are far less effective ... and I think you'll find that those that have tried them agree. I could be wrong ... but I believe that is the consensus.

I've used the pellets on Gus for probably over a year and a half (not sure exactly when I started, but I started because of this thread). I haven't tried the liquid, so I can't compare, but did notice an improvement in Gus when being on the pelleted HA versus no HA.

Plus in MN, the liquid is very inconvenient... no way around it in a boarding situation. So, for the time being, pelleted it is. I would be willing to try the liquid though if my boys are at my own place... some day.

[hollyhorse2000]

I do not have trouble with it freezing, even through last year's terrible winter. If I get concerned for any reason, I actually wrap it in one of my mare's polar fleece coolers.

BTW, this stuff is great. I've been using it for more than a year now and haven't injected her hocks since I started using it. Yes, I'm also using a Smartpak product with glucosamine/chondr and MSM, and monthly Adequan, but I used to do her hocks yearly.

[IFG]

The liquid did freeze on me last winter. That said, I noticed that the last gallon (200 mg/ ounce from Ebay) is much thinner than the earlier stuff. Anyone else notice that?

[GPD123]

bringing this back up briefly~~

i'm about to start my guys on the Flex Force, but was wondering if anyone knows of someplace else to buy it? Do any tack shops carry it? I tried asking S-Pak to special order it for me but that was a no. My only problem is, that a gallon cost $60 which is GREAT, but I will go through a gallon per month with 2 horses on a normal dose, and 1 horse on a double dose. The shipping is $13 which will add up after a while. even with the 13 dollar shipping, it is still much cheaper than other alternatives- just wondering if it is out there somewhere else. Thanks!

[Skip's Rider]

GPD, I've gone to ordering two gallons at a time. The shipping is only a few dollars more than the shipping for a single gallon. So, per gallon the shipping is much more economical if you order more than one gallon. I have two horses on FF currently. One gets 1 oz/day and the other gets 1/2 oz/day. The shelf life is long enough that ordering two at a time is not a problem.

To avoid the freezing problem, I dispense the FF into 50-ml centrifuge tubes (yes, lab geek here). I take two to the barn with me every day. If I'm away, the BOs will keep them in the house and take them to the barn at feeding time. Keep in mind that there is a residual volume that you can't get out of the container. In my case, I have to put 35 ml in the tube to be able to pour 30 ml (about 1 oz) out of the tube. I reuse the tubes, so that residual volume isn't a loss.

[IFG]

Just an update. Jeffers now has Flex Force, and it is slightly cheaper.

[myhorsefaith]

Resurrecting for Spring 2011 :)

I've been thinking of starting this regime for my 3 horses.

Problem is, I board, they are 25 miles away, and I cannot expect the liquid to be dispensed on their grain the 3 days a week I am not there.

So- I've been thinking of a master plan. Is 4 days of oral dosing enough?

Do you think it could be a good idea to feed the pellets daily, which I KNOW they will get, and when I am there, dose the liquid in a smaller dose? So basically, I'd be using a combination of liquid and pellets.

Thoughts?

[Skip's Rider]

For a about a month this winter, Skip missed his dose, on average, about 2 days a week. He seemed to do fine with that. That's different from getting 4 doses per week every week, but it's the only info I have. I would be interested in hearing from folks who have tried the pellets. Skip has done so well on the liquid that I didn't want to risk making the change to the pellets.

[myhorsefaith]

Thanks

I ended up ordering the pellets and the liquid. Between the 2 I will figure something out.

My next question is- can you give TOO much HA? So if they got the 100mg HA in pellets, but 4x a week a squirted the liquid in them- they would be getting 200 mg HA 4 days out of the week. Would that be too much?

I guess i could always reduce the doses of either the pellets/liquid, or both. I guess I will have to play around with it.

[goodmorning]

My next question is- can you give TOO much HA? So if they got the 100mg HA in pellets, but 4x a week a squirted the liquid in them- they would be getting 200 mg HA 4 days out of the week.

You might be able to give too much - but I know people who have their horses on 200mg of HA, plus Legend injections - so, I'm thinking 200mg is OK.

[KrazyTBMare]

Im sure 4 days is better than none.



Since this thread is active again I wanted to post some results with this HA.

I started my 3.5 y/o on it for total support as hes a big, growing horse. On a side note, he has a big boggy hock left over from his OCD that was surgically removed. Completely cosmetic but ugly.

I had him on it for approx 4 days and looked at his hock, which previously looked like a large plum was sticking out of the inside part of his upper hock, and it looked smaller. Probably was just imagining it. Until a week later, I looked at it and it was considerably smaller - just a gently bulge instead of a bulbous swelling. Hes still in work and thats the only change. I didnt start him on it for the boggy hock but this is a nice bonus.

Pic - sorry bad cell pic on the left is the after and the before is the right
http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/190135_1857187196618_1449009522_32051799_6654119_n .jpg

[Such Life]

I started my mare on LubriSyn about a week ago and have noticed HUGE differences, BUT, I live in Ontario Canada, where HA for horses is regulated by the vets (i was in the states for a trip, so was able to grab some at Dover when I was there)

BUT I would reallly like to get my hands on the cheaper stuff as I only have about a month and ha half left of the LubriSyn

Any suggestion how to get it into Canada?

We do have an HA product called HA-180 http://www.omegaalphaequine.com/products-ha-180.php
But I can get the "dog" version of this with no problem since apparently its not regulated for dogs and the manufacture has stated that it is exactly the same compound! but its still pretty expensive, and that $60 stuff sounds like a dream come true (if only I could get in TO ontario :S)

[Larissa]

Have any of you bought your Flex-Force/Conquer/Lubrisyn/joint supplement of choice, or really any other supplement, from someone other than the retailer? Where did you find it advertised? I tried the Flex-Force for my 19 y/o gelding, hoping his NQR issues were a touch of old-man-itis but yet another vet check has indicated it's likely a mystery injury of sorts :sigh: I used less than 20 days of it so it would still do someone else some good. Just not sure how to FIND that someone else. Appreciate any help!

[SolarFlare]

Such Life - I'm in Ontario too. I buy the Flex Force HA from Valley Vet and have them ship it to a mail drop in Niagara Falls, NY. I drive over the border and pick it up myself as I'm about an hour away.

If you would like the info for the mail drop I use, let me know and I would be happy to give you the info.

You won't be able to get it shipped directly to you in Canada - my understanding is that it is due to our different labeling regulations and other legal issues.