It just occurred to me...none of this matters

[LMH]

It actually hit me tonight as I walked Polo in to his deeply bedded stall, removed his hoof boots, gave him his soaked hay, after his morning Pergolide...then moved Julian to his pasture, after another day of not riding because he has kissing spine, which was just before I moved Milo, who is still recovering from that abscess over a month ago-or likely it is traveling again.

Guess what....NONE of this matters. What you feed, grass, no grass, muzzles, bute, devil's claw, joint supplements, pergolide, joint injections, soybean, flax or alfalfa. Trim like KC, Pete, or your farrier, shoe them, boot them or not. Deworm every 4 weeks, 8 weeks, once a year, use Wormcheck or DE or Quest. You can train by the German method, French method or no method, love Parelli, hate him, think Clinton is a babe or not. Bitted or bitless, treed or treeless, air pads, foam or sheepskin.

And guess what-not one single bit of it matters one bit. It doesn't matter if there is research because there are 10 more papers to disprove it. It doesn't matter if you know what you are doing or don't. It doesn't matter if you have owned horses for 10 days or 10 years.

You do the best you can, you read and research and spend more money that any decent lady could spend at Saks Fifth Avenue with an unlimited charge. You lose sleep, you read more, you argue with people on the internet you have never met and will likely never meet. Then you get insulted by some of those same people.

You keep trying and soak up those few minutes when it all comes together...you have the perfect diet, perfect trim, perfect equipment and guess what...less than a week later someone will founder, abscess or break. Then you spend the rest of your days worrying and nursing and trying again.

Or maybe it is time to stop a few months of supplements and take a vacation.

[Walela]

Mucho Jingles

[J.D.]

It actually hit me tonight as I walked Polo in to his deeply bedded stall, removed his hoof boots, gave him his soaked hay, after his morning Pergolide...then moved Julian to his pasture, after another day of not riding because he has kissing spine, which was just before I moved Milo, who is still recovering from that abscess over a month ago-or likely it is traveling again.

Guess what....NONE of this matters. What you feed, grass, no grass, muzzles, bute, devil's claw, joint supplements, pergolide, joint injections, soybean, flax or alfalfa. Trim like KC, Pete, or your farrier, shoe them, boot them or not. Deworm every 4 weeks, 8 weeks, once a year, use Wormcheck or DE or Quest. You can train by the German method, French method or no method, love Parelli, hate him, think Clinton is a babe or not. Bitted or bitless, treed or treeless, air pads, foam or sheepskin.

And guess what-not one single bit of it matters one bit. It doesn't matter if there is research because there are 10 more papers to disprove it. It doesn't matter if you know what you are doing or don't. It doesn't matter if you have owned horses for 10 days or 10 years.

You do the best you can, you read and research and spend more money that any decent lady could spend at Saks Fifth Avenue with an unlimited charge. You lose sleep, you read more, you argue with people on the internet you have never met and will likely never meet. Then you get insulted by some of those same people.

You keep trying and soak up those few minutes when it all comes together...you have the perfect diet, perfect trim, perfect equipment and guess what...less than a week later someone will founder, abscess or break. Then you spend the rest of your days worrying and nursing and trying again.

Or maybe it is time to stop a few months of supplements and take a vacation.

Glad you had that epiphany!! No matter what we do-how we do, horses still get sick, lame and survive and die.

I as a professional and a horse owner, I struggle with this everyday!! Glad to be in good company!:cool:

[Rick Burten]

you argue with people on the internet you have never met and will likely never meet. Then you get insulted by some of those same people.

That's what friends are for............ :D

[cloudyandcallie]

Well at least you had your "unbirthday party" when someone posted happy birthday.

It must be contagious, lots of abscesses, Cloudy has one also.

Just be glad it isn't worse, and keep soaking.

Hope all 4 (?) 4 right? of your horses enjoy the fall weather in Alpharetta.

[Pookah]

It sounds like your barn has the same problem as mine--those annoying horses just seem to thrive on benign neglect rather than my psychotic attempts at perfect care! There's nothing more frustrating than to do everything but wrap your horse in bubble wrap but fight one problem after another, while you watch the person who does zero special care have zero problems.

[lovemyrobin]

Oh yes, these moments hit us at times. Mine was two years ago, sitting on the bumper of my car at the barn. Sobbing my eyes out, telling the BO that I was "going to sell the herd" after being faced with another injury, still trying to pay off the last injury, and feeling totally overwhelmed.

But the moment passed, the "herd" is still intact, and we've actually had a great summer and hopefully a good fall and winter.

[irishcas]

Amen Sister!!!!

Funny how we know less than 1/16th millionth of a billion of what we think we know.

Damn horses are here to confound and test us every damn day.

Breathe, drink a glass of wine, vote for Obama and live to live another day!

Hugs baby.

Regards,

[monicabee]

I think special horses find their way to special owners... codependency :)

However, when i do see one of those no-worries owners suddenly confronted with a real problem, who do they come running to in a panic? The person with the trunk full of epsom salts, soaking boot, triple-antibiotic ointment, vet wrap, bandages, duct tape, etc. who has a wing at the local vet hospital named after them.

Sorry you have three special horses right now, though. That's a bit hard.

[FlashGordon]

Oh LMH I kind of get what you are saying.

When Dan died, this was all a shocking realization to me. I mean, managing him was down to a *science* and he was, as far as we could tell, a VERY healthy guy.

And yet, there was nothing that could have been done to change the outcome. That was the hardest thing to accept. Almost wish I could pinpoint something that could have been done differently, but there is nothing...

Made me realize how out of control we really are, even when we think we have everything under wraps.

All we can do is love them when we have them, try not to worry too much about the small things, because really... a clean stall, some decent hay, a field to stretch their legs.... and us to love on them once in awhile... really that is all that matters! To them, at least. ;)

[Altitude Rider]

LMH you summed it up perfectly. I had about a day and a half in the last 2 weeks that I didn't stress over all the sh*$ going on in my horse world but today I was back at the vet for yet another unplanned (fairly minor) issue.

The vet tech says to my horse, "Poor Guy! What did you do now??" I (jokingly) said, "Poor ME! I can't take having 3 horses with issues, it's just too much!"

I know how much energy, time, research and $ I put into my boys and wouldn't trade it for the world. Who cares if I live in a double wide so that they have a nice barn, pasture, the best hay/feed and more of my time?

All we can do is our best. Every time Ready starts licking me, Cody gives me "that" look or Sticks starts smiling, I just melt.

Friends, faith and wine keep me going, at least most of the time. The weirdest things make me break down and cry periodically but I just grab a handful of carrots and go out to my own slice of heaven...my backyard with my boys.

Thanks for the good perspective. And jingles for all of us.

[Laurierace]

You know as sad and depressing as it can be, its the learning aspect of dealing with horses that engages me the most. I know I can read, research, study and put my knowledge to work in the field for the rest of my life and I won't ever begin to know it all. Injuries and illnesses suck but they suck a lot less when you can reach into that mental book of knowledge and know exactly what the next step is. This too shall pass.

[H/J Anonymous]

The real question is how did horses ever survive in the wild? I don't know if mine would survive with a damp blanket let alone no blanket!!:winkgrin:

[Bank of Dad]

Blame it on the internet. Before this, I did 20 years of benign neglect and had miminal problems. I only knew a few horse owners, got a few magazines, read a few books. We did just fine, thank you. Now, thanks to all of you here, I have a trillion more things to worry about that I never knew existed. Wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then.

[KrazyTBMare]

Sorry things are going up the creek with your horses. The only thing I can say is know that you are doing your best and that is all you can ever do.

And also, no matter what happens - they are worth it. Even when they are lame, sick, or just pains in the butts - they are ALL worth it.

[Ride'emCO]

But the moment passed, the "herd" is still intact, and we've actually had a great summer and hopefully a good fall and winter.

Don't. Bait. The. Spite. Fairy.

I don't post these things - the things you haven't necessarily had to deal with in a while, like abcesses, soreness, NQR, the C word, ligament or tendon issues - because I'm terrified of TSF. I don't say "never", even if it' true. Especially about these things. When things are going well, we keep our mouths SHUT.

Jingles, LMH. It matters, trust me. It just seems sometimes like it doesn't. Which sucks. Big Time.

[meaty ogre]

I'm married to a feed dealer. He has some customers that just make him beat his head against the desk. One in particular races standardbreds, feeds them straight corn, shoes them himself with no formal training, and keeps his horses in a small paddock filled with rusty old farm equipment. THEY WIN A LOT. They are actually shiny and healthy looking. He will not budge on any of his long-held and scientifically disproven beliefs. His proof is in the checks he keeps cashing. It's just unbelievable.

It's a running joke between me and Mr. MO. Anytime I end up with a big vet bill he shakes his head and says Mr. Dimwit hasn't had the vet out in 40 years. ;)

[EqTrainer]

You know as sad and depressing as it can be, its the learning aspect of dealing with horses that engages me the most. I know I can read, research, study and put my knowledge to work in the field for the rest of my life and I won't ever begin to know it all. Injuries and illnesses suck but they suck a lot less when you can reach into that mental book of knowledge and know exactly what the next step is. This too shall pass.

Yup, that's it. That's what drags my tired ass up every morning and makes me love my job.

And LMH.. remember.. you are an ammy. Ideally you would paying someone to do all these things for you and know all these things :lol: I do this *full time*. How does anyone do it part time, I have no idea.

[Pippigirl]

I'm married to a feed dealer. He has some customers that just make him beat his head against the desk. One in particular races standardbreds, feeds them straight corn, shoes them himself with no formal training, and keeps his horses in a small paddock filled with rusty old farm equipment. THEY WIN A LOT. They are actually shiny and healthy looking. He will not budge on any of his long-held and scientifically disproven beliefs. His proof is in the checks he keeps cashing. It's just unbelievable.

It's a running joke between me and Mr. MO. Anytime I end up with a big vet bill he shakes his head and says Mr. Dimwit hasn't had the vet out in 40 years. ;)

OMG....that's too funny! I encounter people like that and it makes me wonder how the h*ll they can get by. I miss one day at the barn and it seems like that's the day out of 364 days that the horse cuts herself open...

[ChocoMare]

You know as sad and depressing as it can be, its the learning aspect of dealing with horses that engages me the most. I know I can read, research, study and put my knowledge to work in the field for the rest of my life and I won't ever begin to know it all. Injuries and illnesses suck but they suck a lot less when you can reach into that mental book of knowledge and know exactly what the next step is. This too shall pass.

Ditto.

While I love the learning, engaging, studying and research, I've chosen to take the less-is-more and KISS attitude. I do the best I can without making myself nuts over it and take full advantage of those little Joy Moments.

Hang in there baby. :sadsmile:

[marta]

but yet for others it seems to come with no effort. they don't know about diet, deworming, or danger of vaccinating. they feed their horses pounds of sweet feed, give them apple jacks as treats by the box, ride in saddles that never fit and their horses are fine. sound, no abcesses, no metabolic issues. they don't spend all their energy and free time worrying, analyzing the latest data, reading up on new research. at this point i'm wondering if could even be one of those people. i'd probably end up finding something to worry about even if i had one of those incredible horses which are ingorant-owner proof;)

[LongLeaf]

LMH - thank you, my sentiments exactly. I come here every day (mostly lurking), read posts about feeding and DEworming and foot care and I log off completely second guessing my horsekeeping practices. Then I look out the window and see 5 very happy, healty, dappled and glowing and sound (well...sound enough to be pasture puffs) horses and I think, "We're doing OK and what we do, works for us."

I've jumped on a couple of bandwagons only to hop off as soon as something negative was said / written about said bandwagon. I finally decided that what I do works for me, as evidenced by my herd. It may not work for everyone, but as long as my horses stay healthy and beautiful, I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

[Patty Lynch]

Hang in there Leah. It's times like this when I shut the computer down, just walk away for a little while and regroup.

[Tamara in TN]

And guess what-not one single bit of it matters one bit. It doesn't matter if there is research because there are 10 more papers to disprove it. It doesn't matter if you know what you are doing or don't. It doesn't matter if you have owned horses for 10 days or 10 years.

welcome to caring for a living machine :) pssst it's the same in dogs as well...do what's right by YOUR horse and go on with your life...he'll live or he won't and some INTERNET goober will always be ready to tell you what an evil dumbass you are....:lol:

best

[eventchic33]

I belong to the Blissfully Ignorant Club. I do nothing very special for my horses and never have. They get minimal grain, they get their wormer and shots regularly and if needed shoes. They aren't on a regular schedule for feeding times etc etc..... And yet...... I am a basket case waiting for something bad to happen or to end up with a special needs horse. But I still love my beasties, and thats the most important thing. We all do what we can to make it work for them and in turn they enrich our lives like nothing else can. It will get better sweetie. Hugs**

[Maude]

LMH, My sentiments exactly. I'm supporting 5 and have nothing to ride. It is depressing to spend all the time, money, energy and emotion just to have it all go to he!! in a handbasket. Guinea pigs...? Now that might be better although I'd get attached to those little rodents too.

[Auventera Two]

vote for Obama

I love you Kim!!! :lol: :winkgrin: :D

Seriously Leah, I am so sorry. I know your frustration - I really really do. I was faced with this a few years ago when we lost our horses in a barn fire. Geeze louise, you do everything right. The supplements, the farrier, the saddles, the training, the vaccinations, the feed, the worming. And it all goes up in a blaze. My mom and I felt like our horses died on our watch and it was almost too much to bear.

The hardest thing for me was sitting up alone at night thinking - jesus h christ, none of it mattered. For 10 years I took care of my mare down to the Nth degree and did everything right. I researched everything that could be researched and I spent months of my life just trying to make decisions and get education that would make things better for her. And in one terrifying inferno it's all gone. Just gone. I felt so empty, because it just seemed like no matter what you do, you're still damned.

I've been where you are and it sucks. But remember, it'll be ok. It always is. Even when they die, it will be ok again. Everything that was born is condemned to die. What does it matter if you squeak out another year or two with excessive vet bills and worry? Just do the best you can, love them and care for them with common sense and reason and leave the rest to fate. Since I was recently burned by the bandwagon, I'm moving on to a more simple approach to life. :D Remember girlfriend, this is a hobby. It has to be FUN or we shouldn't be doing it. Life is too short and too precious to live in a state of turmoil. :) I think the internet has caused people waaaaaay more stress than a person should ever have to deal with. LOL!

[Bensmom]

Hugs, girlfriend.

Boy, do I feel your pain! I have one currently at UF's vet school for an MRI, and one a year out from the suspensory injury, cautiously coming back to work. One lame IR horse at home, one lame TB at home, and that was just as of this morning. <sigh>

But, I can say that when I walked out of the restaurant last night on the way home from the vet school, and my boy that was in the trailer heard my voice, and began to call and call for his "mom" -- my heart just melted.

It is worth it. Really. Sometimes, though, the days seem Really Long.

Let us know how your guys are,

Libby

[Trakehner]

Originally Posted by irishcas "vote for Obama"

Yep, and you won't need to worry about your horses, you won't be able to afford em'.

Good luck on your low point with the beasts...it's especially bad when the horrid and nasty horses with the "coudn't care less" attitudes have absolutley healthy horses....maybe it's God's will that those who will care for their horses are blessed with horses that actually will need care.

Sucks anyway...and this after spending 2 hours with a vet last night helping with a friend's horse who had "choke" trying to get everything moving...scary stuff. Sure hope the shoes I was wearing clean up in the wash (heck, I sure hope they were washable, cuz' they sure weren't wearable after all the stuff came out of the poor horse's nose....ack!)

[JB]

You know as sad and depressing as it can be, its the learning aspect of dealing with horses that engages me the most. I know I can read, research, study and put my knowledge to work in the field for the rest of my life and I won't ever begin to know it all. Injuries and illnesses suck but they suck a lot less when you can reach into that mental book of knowledge and know exactly what the next step is. This too shall pass.
That is so true. I'm often in the same boat as LMH, just with 1 horse though (the other one I don't really ride, she blasts around the field, never hurts herself, of course LOL). In fact, LMH and I are usually constantly in some form of hell between the 2 of us. My horse gets going well, hers gets hurt; hers start going well, mine goes to pot. Never fails. At one point I think we threatened to stop talking to each other :winkgrin:

But yeah, the things I have learned, and undoubtedly the things LMH has learned, should serve us well in the future of our current horses, and in the futures of future horses.

Don't. Bait. The. Spite. Fairy.

I don't post these things - the things you haven't necessarily had to deal with in a while, like abcesses, soreness, NQR, the C word, ligament or tendon issues - because I'm terrified of TSF. I don't say "never", even if it' true. Especially about these things. When things are going well, we keep our mouths SHUT.
Seriously, no kidding. I bragged in one little e-mail to my trainer how well Rio was doing on something we started working on, and the next day, kid you not, he came up NQR. Well fine, trainer will just have to discover how well we're doing when she comes to visit! :rolleyes:

Jingles, LMH. It matters, trust me. It just seems sometimes like it doesn't. Which sucks. Big Time.
Yes, it DOES matter. In the end, it does matter. In the beginning, it does matter. In the middle, it does matter.

[BuddyRoo]

((hugs))

It's like some kind of special Muphy's Law for horse folks.

The more you know, the more screwed you are.

Ignorance truly DOES seem to be bliss. Because I see folks who don't deworm, don't vaccinate, rarely trim their horses' feet, cowboy around paying little attention to fitness level, don't call the vet, etc....and THEIR horses do fine.

Yet....even as I methodically vaccinate, deworm, trim, train, etc? My horse is the one who gets Potomac or is IR or has the stifle injury.

It's funny....my one mare has been with me for 17 years.

When I was still living back home (I was 12 when she was born, so she lived at home for many years)....mom didn't have a farrier out all winter. Didn't put water in the barn overnight if they were kept inside, didn't keep up on vaccs or deworming so much. And never a single colic, abscess, lameness, nothing.

Now? While I still have been pretty blessed to not have any major issues, it seems like I constantly WORRY. I think that if I didn't trim all winter now? I'd have a lame horse. If I didn't put water in over night? I'd have a colic.

Granted...I'm still a minimalist. I only supp for deficiencies, I don't grain if they don't need it, turnout as much as possible, etc etc.

But there are things I could never do now, things I could never let slide...because I know that now I know better and that Murphy's law thing would kick me in the hiney.

[Dispatcher]

That is a lot going on and you have every right to feel discouraged. But your horses WILL get better, I'm sure of it. After all, there are a lot of people on here jingling.

I wonder why nowadays there are SO many supplements and remedies out there for us to spend our money on. Horses got along just fine before them. I imagine a lot of the items make some little difference, but I don't think it justifies the expense. It's just mega profits for the companies who make them. The old fashioned remedies are still the best

Hang in there because as others have said, it DOES matter.

[SuperSTB]

Okay this is what you need to do:

1. pull out the camp chair- get a bottle water.
2. FORCE into your schedule, 2-3 hr time slot. This is an emergency special appointment that must be made quickly.
3. At such time- bring chair and bottle of water to barn.
4. Turn-out horse(s) and yourself (with chair and water)
5. Sit in chair in turn-out WITH horse(s).

Just watch. Bring no cell phone, no book, no baggage, no distraction.

You will learn something- and it's different for each person.

Everything you do with horses matters. It matters on a scale not yet quantified.

[WW_Queen]

The only hiccup with the "Why bother?" argument is that it's pretty fatalist. :)

Why bother not smoking, when you could easily get lung cancer from second-hand smoke? Why teach your children not to cross the road, when any day they could go chasing after a ball and get killed by a car? Why lock the doors at night, put on a seatbelt, eat organic food, get regular check-ups or bother going to work?

We're human, it's in our nature (well, most of us *lol*) to learn about the world around us, and to improve the quality of our lives and of those lives that are under our care. Many of us on this BB are inquisitive, interested in life and our horse's lives, and even thought ultimately we cannot control the world around us, we can just do the best we can. :)

Doing anything worthwhile in life involves some calculated risk, but maybe that's where the intrigue comes from, the unexpected.

One day they may engineer an intellectually brain-dead breed, one that has had the "flight or fight" instinct removed, no personality or free will, just operates on a "poop/sleep/eat/obey commands" basis.

[irishcas]

I love you Kim!!! :lol: :winkgrin: :D



Glad somebody does :D We got to get him in and the tired ole regime out :winkgrin:


Trakenher wrote: ep, and you won't need to worry about your horses, you won't be able to afford em'.

Sure I will :) I live frugally and am a Middle Class person so I'm sure I'll be okay.


Anyway, back to poor LMH, are you feeling better today?

Regards,

[2DogsFarm]

Ditto.

I do the best I can without making myself nuts over it and take full advantage of those little Joy Moments.

Amen to that and what Laurierace said!

As bad as it seems now, isn't it better to have an idea of how to fix the booboos instead of going into Blind Panic mode?

Nice to be able to help someone else too, even if it means you are digging into the Don't Ask How I Know This past.

[okggo]

Awww...for what it is worth, we can all relate!

I learned a long time ago in horses that the best bet was none at all. Hope for nothing, want nothing, aim for nothing, and anything will be icing on the cake.

Horses are walking accidents. No doubt about it. I had a mare put down in 2005 that I rode all of maybe 6 times, she was one pasture accident after another (puncture wounds, broken bones, canker/abcesses).

I now have 5 of the walking disasters. My first outing this year was a WB inspection where my mare happened to get a horrific case of scratches the week before and her leg blew up like a water balloon. Day of, she was lame. Day after, good to go.

You do the best you can b/c for whatever reason you love them (for me, I just feel honored that such a large and beautiful creature lets me in their presence). And just know that the best is never good enough b/c a very large part of a horses ultimate well being relies on the actions of the horse. Until we can start brainwashing them into being careful, you just mitigate the possibilities as much as possible and have lots of bandaids on hand!!

[LMH]

Wow...lots of interesting thoughts. At least I am not alone in my head. LOL.

FWIW, I am actually not feeling 'depressed and hopeless' though it sounds that way.:lol:

OK maybe I was a little overwhelmed yesterday. Just a little.

I really truly mean though-it doesn't matter.

Raise you hands if you have sound horses using Ramey's trim.

Now raise your hands for sound KC trims.

Raise your hands if you have sound horses wearing shoes.

Raise your hands if you have shiny glossy horses that eat soy

Raise your hands if you have healthy horses that eat only hay/pasture/ salt

Raise your hands if you live in a selenium deficient area, do NOT add Selenium and have sound horses.

Raise your hands if you have low fecal counts and do not use chemical dewormers.

You see, there will be hands raised on every single question.

It does not matter.

We can do more, do less, do the same and do different and for the most part most horses will be fine...it just is not worth the effort to make this more than it is.

I have a friend that had some personal issues. She left her horses in a field for a year with water, salt and some farrier care (all trims, no shoes). All were fine and healthy.

Another neighbor feeds 1/2 cup Omega Horseshine mixed in Purina sweetfeed.

The horses look amazing.

Another neighbor (YOU know who you are!) just feeds flax and what-VitaPlus from Farnam? I think that is correct? Salt blocks. Horses are shiny and lovely.

No mineral balancing....no worries.

I have fed (over the years) a cup of Gro N Win, Triple Crown 30%, Dynamite, Linpro, Equipride and Horsetech.

If I am honest about it, the look just fine on any of those products. I have had just as many issues (or no issues) with coats, hooves and fat depending on the time of year, etc.

It doesn't matter.

I *think* the deworming has made a difference. That one seems so. I did use daily dewormers for awhile, then no chemicals-now that seemed to make things go a little wild...but others will disagree

It doesn't matter.

I no longer do any kind of exciting designer trim. I really don't do anything that fascinating with the hooves. Trim from the top so there are no flares and megaroll.

Nothing else. My neighbor trims whenever-horses feet look lovely. Even overgrown they are sound. They don't live on special footing or anything.

Another friend has never had any hoof care training-just the internet. She rasps until it 'looks pretty.' All 7 horses have lovely feet and are sound...oh they just eat a cup of some kind of ration balancer-whichever one is handy. And certainly not enough to come close to NRC amounts.

It doesn't matter.

I think I am going to just stop the nonsense.

Just feed more something if they are thin, less if they are fat and forget it.

Make the feet 'pretty' and forget it.

There have been SO MANY mean ARGUMENTS over some of these topics. People have been made to look or feel stupid, ignorant, uneducated, inexperienced.

Maybe people need to feel really really smart and making things complicated or making a KISS program look uncaring is important to the ego...I don't know.

And, I may not have a degree in any of these topics and may not be a licensed professional....BUT somewhere yesterday I *think* some good old fashioned common sense kicked in and I realized.

It
doesn't
matter

OK it might. I could actually save enough money, time and energy to take that vacation-because you see I could actually LEAVE my farm. They will live without me.

Jaye-didn't you use to say somewhere that Horses live in spite of us not because of us.

Indeed.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=LMH;3568073]And, I may not have a degree in any of these topics and may not be a licensed professional....BUT somewhere yesterday I *think* some good old fashioned common sense kicked in and I realized.

welcome to boring old practicality....nothing to get excited about once you strip away all the fads and fashions and quirks and internet scares and goofy gear (maybe that could go under fads??) and zealots...

horses are just horses......

best

[Daydream Believer]

Amen Sister!!!!

Breathe, drink a glass of wine, vote for Obama and live to live another day!



Now THAT is a plan! The drink especially! :winkgrin: I would love to sit down for a drink with Obama. What a fascinating person he is.

To the OP...

Leah,

Hang in there. I KNOW how frustrating things can get. You saw the pics of my horses after this feed fiasco this summer. I have gotten weight off of some and not others. I just got back in from trimming one of the geldings who looks better than when I started but his damn crest is still as hard as a brick six weeks after soaking hay and trying so hard. I think I am going to buy stock in Foxden's Quiessence! UGH!

It is amazing how much intolerance there is in the horse world. So many opinionated people and it's "my way or the highway" mentality. You are right...there are so many ways to get it right and sometimes the people who try the hardest to do things perfectly end up in a mess. Look at me...I switch from plain oats and vite supplement to a $30/bag RB and my horses health fall apart. I do think people way complicate things and this summer has been a lesson to me to go back to doing things simpler. Feed a more basic feed...feed nothing they would not eat in nature and let them be horses.

[BabyGoose]

You know as sad and depressing as it can be, its the learning aspect of dealing with horses that engages me the most. I know I can read, research, study and put my knowledge to work in the field for the rest of my life and I won't ever begin to know it all. Injuries and illnesses suck but they suck a lot less when you can reach into that mental book of knowledge and know exactly what the next step is. This too shall pass.

Me too. Some of my horse friends think I am nuts for trying so hard to find a farrier that can do a good barefoot trim when their horses have got by fine for years with whatever farrier/trimmer/blacksmith was available at the time! But I love learning more about all aspects of horses. I love reading the research and the 10 other documents that prove that it's wrong. Everybody hopes that their horses will be sound and healthy all the time, but I also like to think that maybe something I have learned along the way, or go out of my way to do, or some new kind of feed, tack, I buy etc. will matter. And since I don't like to spend my money on clothes, shoes, makeup, going out to fancy restaurants.... then what the heck else am I supposed to spend it on but the horses.

Edited to add that it DOES matter. It matters to the horses that you are going the extra mile for when a lot of people would send them on the next truck to Mexico.

[Tom Bloomer]

The up-side to all this . . . SOME DAYS you get the elevator! :cool:

[Cherry]

Posted by Tom--
The up-side to all this . . . SOME DAYS you get the elevator!
Yes, Tom, but some people don't get the elevator nearly often enough! ;)

In the short term I think what we decide to do probably works, but in the end--no, I don't think it matters.... But LMH there are other people out there struggling too.... :(

I've been very blessed with my horse. I got her when she was eight and she was a mental wreck! I've done many things to try and make her better--most of it has worked--some days it worked better than others but I can tell my horse is much more at peace now in her skin.... She's only had leg problems three times since I've owned her and may have had an abscess one time (but the vet couldn't find it). I started out feeding grain but realized it made her crazy so she is now on a ration balancer and forage products and she acts like a "normal" horse. I only blanket her when it's below freezing (because she's old and not any too fat) but other than that I just don't fuss with her--no goop on the feet, no spray du jour on her coat--she's never had rain rot, or a cold, or any of the other stuff people complain about on this board. Right now we're battling some skin "thing" via a supplement and by bathing the affected area but I suspect it may be because she has Cushing's (although the test was really inconclusive due to the time of year it was done).

But you're right--it doesn't matter because she has terrible arthritis in her knee.... It's really starting to get in her way and any day now I will be forced to euthanize her.... :( She was twenty-three years old this year, her eyes are bright, she's alert, full of life and stoic--I don't know how I'm going to do this (send her to her grave).... :cry: My husband said if anyone else had bought her she would have been dead a long time ago--I think so too.... :yes: I think sometimes we do all this just for the horses--we have to feel like we've tried all the options....

I do think there is a cosmic plan going on that none of us are privy to but I am hoping in the end the answer is revealed (or I'm going to be really pissed!).

"God only knows, God makes His plans--the information's unavailable to the mortal man. We work at our jobs, collect our pay, believe we're gliding down the highway, but in fact--we're slip sliding away!"~~Paul Simon

[EqTrainer]

Horses are such individuals. Some thrive on nothing.. but truly, some do not. I get a lot of the "some do nots" here to fix and it's not pretty. It is also true that just because you get away with doing nothing today does not mean it will last forever that way. I see that one a lot, too. Horse who did just fine on nothing at 8 often fall to shit around 12-14.

The theory that has worked best for me has been do it one way. Not a whole bunch of other ways, but do it this way and stick to it. By doing this, I've managed to get it down to doing it one way for horses and another for ponies. Be good w/the long term plan. Take every sound, happy day as a gift, not your right.

If you really think about it, we expect just absolutely crazy things from horses. They are not designed to do what we want them to do. Actually, the fact that they go along with it at all is a freaking miracle.

[2ndyrgal]

It doesn't. I have friend that have their horses and suppliments and a very specific diet. Their horses look great. Mine get farm grown hay(grass) pasture, water and treats. Except for the 24 yr old TB (who looked like crap when I got him back from a college program) they are fat, shiny and happy. They are barefoot, and my farrier trims them every six weeks. I've taken care of $$$$ racehorses with everything done to the nth degree. All four of mine came down with a fungus that meant they couldn't be trained or raced for 3 weeks. The guy in the next shedrow? Never cleaned either horse or barely a stall, his equipment smelled like an old jock strap, his horses looked shaggy, filthy and unkeep. He won a lot of cheap races, and I seldom saw the vet in his barn. I had fans on mine, Gene Riegle said it makes them soft. He won everything in sight and piles of $$$ for years. I have a coupld of rules. My horses can be wet, they can be cold. They can't be cold and wet or they come in. I don't blanket, they grow hair. They have run ins which they use more for shade and a windbreak than for shelter. Soundest horse I ever owned was a little mustang. Ate very little, great coat, feet hard as a rock and perfect. He got pasture during the day, a flake of hay at night and water. Everyone complimented me on his lovely coat and feet. It is what it is. There aren't really any miracles. Beauty creams might make you think that "it will diminish the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles". I won't, just makes you feel better that you're doing something. Same with most suppliments. You can replace anything you want with them, except love and common sense.

[Silly Mommy]

Hugs leah.

I think I need to give you a call and straighten your arse right out!!!

[marta]

the weather was perfect here in NJ, my mare was shiny, and wearing her boots w/ pads at a walk looked like any other healthy horse as we went for our 1 hour long walk of the day. and let me tell you, after 5 months of not riding her, the last couple of weeks since we got permission to walk under tack have felt AMAZING!!!! i missed riding her so much. didn't realize how much until i got back on her...
so this was a good weekend.

[Tom Bloomer]

In the short term I think what we decide to do probably works
Somewhere I once read a statistic that indicated that on average a horse owner keeps a horse for 3 years. My experience with the local demographic in the "quarterhorse show world" correlates well with this statistic. A quarterhorse can be a "champion" by the time it reaches the ripe old age of 3 years. Then you never see that horse again at a show. Why? Are they already worn out and used up? Sent off to the breeding farm without knowing what problems they will develop and pass on to their offspring? Skeletal maturity is age 6, not 3. If a horse is lame at 6 and you've been breeding it since it was 3 . . . thinking it was going to mature into a sound horse . . . it probably came from another sound 3 year old . . .

If you use a horse hard, especially when it is young and not fully developed, statistically that horse is not going to have a very comfortable middle age or geriatric age. If you select and breed for popular aesthetics instead of bone and foot mass, don't be surprised if your long term results are a chronic lameness issue.

When "Ye old mare" (Miss Blackburn 101 - AQHA 1982 (http://www.blackburnforge.com/images/QonB.jpg)) began breeding breeding in '93, she was selected for bone mass and foot size, and KNOWN to be sound at full skeletal maturity, instead of what was becoming popular in the "modern quarterhorse."

She has produced 7 foals ranging in age from 6 to 14 years. She is still sound at 26. In the picture in the link, she was 24, AND she won ribbons that day in spite of not being in the show ring since '91. All of her offspring are SOUND. None of them were "used hard" until they were at least 4 years old.

The youngest had a pulled check ligiment at age 3. This one is also very fine boned compared to the others. Because of this injury (which is now completely healed) we don't allow him to carry riders who weigh over 150 lbs. because there is a known risk. We would not breed again to his sire or recommend anyone else to do so, because now there is a "known risk" to us with this sire producing horses that are too fine boned.

We selected and bred for long term soundness. We were conservative with not asking for hard work before skeletal maturity. Maybe we just got lucky with our horses - 8 times. But I'm betting my 7 year old gelding is going to be just as sound and frisky as his 26 year old momma when he gets to be her age . . . she is still the best ride on our farm. AND you still need to wear goggles and a neck brace if you're gonna ride her through all her "gears" popping the clutch. :lol:

We didn't do what everybody else was doing, AND we got a lot of harsh criticism and heard a lot of "snickering" about breeding "ugly" big boned, big footed horses. I've said it before, the truth is ugly.

[LMH]

Tom, you bring up a point I was pondering yesterday.

I decided my next foal is coming from some cowboy that owns a mare that was sound and ridden for work until her late 20's...she was bred to his neighbor's stallion that worked HARD until HIS late 20's.

Seriously I would look for athletic horses, not necessarily 'hunters' or such...sound solid athletic animals-first ingredient. Discipline specific is down on the list for me.

You actually made my point again-I still wonder how much of this side stuff MATTERS...it just seems some are sound and some are not.

Polo, my now 22yo. I showed him HARD for years. For some of those years he was boarded so his diet and care were not in my control...he was shod his entire working life...he ate anything from sweetfeed to pellets to ration balancers to whatever. Half the time he ate what no one else liked.

He NEVER had problems-was unsound ONCE when the farrier let his toes get long and he strained his tendons. Fixed his shoeing and good in 2 weeks.

His only issues what keeping weight off-hence his current battle with IR...He was just born carrying pounds.

I bought him as a coming teenager. He was started very slowly and not used hard until I got him...and he was almost 10 yo.

He served me very very well.

Since then I have been buying babies...and maybe that is more of the issue. Not really *thinking* about what I want (other than a daisy cutter hunter)...and not really REALLY looking at what mom and dad are bringing to the table.

I know more now than when I started and perhaps my challenges are a reflection of the learning curve I had to experience.

My KS horse is conformationally challenged...very long back so no wonder he has back issues.

My other boy is HUGE HUGE HUGE and his legs are a little challenged...all of the mass coming down on not the straightest of legs is bound to create more challenges.

Now my 5yo hell on wheels cocky, short backed, square shaped conformationally well put together boy? Solid as a rock.

By the way-that mare you posted-aboslutely lovely. :)

[snkstacres]

I have got to add something here. Horses, no matter how many I have, no matter how much I baby them, tend to be for me the greatest mystery. I am blown away but, after years of rescue, I cant believe what I have discovered. In my front field is a specific type of horse. Horses that have never really been cared for, just left on pastures. They have had babies all there lives, never ridden, farriered very very seldomly, no shots, nothing. They are all in there mid 20's to mid 30's and one a bit older than that. And you know what, none of them have arthritic issues, all of them are sound, all of them have great feet. They never have blankets on but they do have shelter. These guys run like crazy, they have moments. I have never had the vet out for an injury on these guys, it hasnt happened. They blow my mind.

The other field, it has the horses we have shown all there lives, taken good care of, kept them shod, vet, worming etc etc. Thats the crew that has all the issues. Ringbone, sidebone, navicular, horners syndrome, founder, arthritis, you name it. Its always that barn the vet comes to. I have come to the conclusion that humans were not a good thing for a horse.

and LMH, you are right, it matters not. I see horses living in little string paddocks filled with dangerous machinery and metals, they live just fine into there 30's on nothing. The horse standing in a nicely bedded stall, babied to the nines all his life, dies of anaphylactic shock. Go figure. There are so many variances and opinions in the horse world, things that work for one and not the other that I about give up on giving advice. That Mr. Dimwit lives next door to me, he lives around the corner, I see them all the time and there darn horses are just fine. I cant figure it out, gave up trying. I do what I believe is best for each and every single horse individually. There are no rules anymore. I have two horses here, one is 22, one is 27/ Neither has ever been farriered andwhen I decided it should be done ?????????????? well, they told me not a chance. Why is it that those two have the nicest feet you have ever seen? Of course, I do make sure they have ample room to wear them off and a variance in terrain, but still. They have no fungal infections, no thrush, never wore blankets and rain rot is unheard of for them.

If anyone ever figures it out, they need to write a book for us who should know it LOL. Of course, I think the jest of the book will be that there is no truth here anyhow. Each horse individually. NO RULES.

[Tamara in TN]

[QUOTE=Tom Bloomer, CF, RJF;3577096]Somewhere I once read a statistic that indicated that on average a horse owner keeps a horse for 3 years. My experience with the local demographic in the "quarterhorse show world" correlates well with this statistic.

hello Tom...

our numbers selling hay to horse folks is about the same....we have a core of about 20 buyers who have been with us since the first year (of commercial sales and that year was recorded as a "glut" of hay on the market and we still made it :))...

we have about 650 unique horse hay clients each year with the balance (1000 total) in alpaca,sheep dairies and cattle and exotic hay....

the horse "breeders" stay in long enough to realize that they will not make a profit w/in the IRS timetable...the middle aged women move on to yoga or tennis after their "crisis" and the kids grow out of the ponies and move on to 4 wheelers...

I'm sure as a farrier,you know horses who have a new owner every 3 years...we also can track horses from one place to another...and it's funny how a "new" aliment follows them from place to place....

it is most important to support the "core" horse people who are not going out of business anytime soon(vets, farriers, old breeders)...they repeat your name the most :)

[Lambie Boat]

I agree.

none of it matters.

people are crazy. horses are mud monkeys who like to eat and poop. everything else is just people stuff.

relax, enjoy life, take as long a vacation as you can stand/afford.

LESS IS MORE!!!!!

(PS: I've been the boarder with 8 supplements, 4 blanket changes, custom everything, special shoes, designer vet treatments, chiro, acupunture, massage, custom tack, best training available, fuss fuss fuss, buckets$$$$$, argh! NOW? barefoot muddy pasture ponies, sounder, healthier, and for sure happier)

[Tom Bloomer]

I know more now than when I started and perhaps my challenges are a reflection of the learning curve I had to experience.Since I married a "lifetime horseman" I was protected from having that "experience." It took me a few years to get used to having vets, trainers, and breeders call my wife and ask her for advice. It doesn't bother my ego if one of my clients calls my wife to ask her for husbandry or horsemanship advice instead of me. ;)

[MistyBlue]

It actually hit me tonight as I walked Polo in to his deeply bedded stall, removed his hoof boots, gave him his soaked hay, after his morning Pergolide...then moved Julian to his pasture, after another day of not riding because he has kissing spine, which was just before I moved Milo, who is still recovering from that abscess over a month ago-or likely it is traveling again.

Guess what....NONE of this matters. What you feed, grass, no grass, muzzles, bute, devil's claw, joint supplements, pergolide, joint injections, soybean, flax or alfalfa. Trim like KC, Pete, or your farrier, shoe them, boot them or not. Deworm every 4 weeks, 8 weeks, once a year, use Wormcheck or DE or Quest. You can train by the German method, French method or no method, love Parelli, hate him, think Clinton is a babe or not. Bitted or bitless, treed or treeless, air pads, foam or sheepskin.

And guess what-not one single bit of it matters one bit. It doesn't matter if there is research because there are 10 more papers to disprove it. It doesn't matter if you know what you are doing or don't. It doesn't matter if you have owned horses for 10 days or 10 years.

You do the best you can, you read and research and spend more money that any decent lady could spend at Saks Fifth Avenue with an unlimited charge. You lose sleep, you read more, you argue with people on the internet you have never met and will likely never meet. Then you get insulted by some of those same people.

You keep trying and soak up those few minutes when it all comes together...you have the perfect diet, perfect trim, perfect equipment and guess what...less than a week later someone will founder, abscess or break. Then you spend the rest of your days worrying and nursing and trying again.

Or maybe it is time to stop a few months of supplements and take a vacation.


Exactly....100% correct. Sucks when we finally accept this in some ways....but it can help a lot in other ways. Because shite WILL happen when you have horses.

I decided my next foal is coming from some cowboy that owns a mare that was sound and ridden for work until her late 20's...she was bred to his neighbor's stallion that worked HARD until HIS late 20's.

Seriously I would look for athletic horses, not necessarily 'hunters' or such...sound solid athletic animals-first ingredient. Discipline specific is down on the list for me

And this is a great help for the epiphany blues. :winkgrin: In my younger years of riding/ownership/working with horses I'd have to say that 75% of the horses I saw/owned/rode were grades and/or stock type horses. Worked on a large farm that did training, lessons, boarding, sales and trail rides. The lesson and trail horses were *all* auction horses. And almost all were either backyard grades (stock crosses) or from the trucklods of midwest stock horses coming into CT often. The amount of times I can remember having any chronic health or soundness issues is really really small. And this is a barn that kept anywhere from 60-100 horses at a time. No supplements, very little special shoeing (most went barefoot all winter) and no special barefoot trims, rarely was the vet out for anything other than annual shots or Coggins.
Got back into horses about 6-7 years ago or so. We bought a Dutch WB...hey, I'm an adult, decent income, homeowning person now and I could *spoil* myself with a "fancy" horse. And I loved that horse...adored the hell out of her. As I got back into the swing of horse ownership again...I was appalled at how common issues with horses are. Back then I knew very very few horses that had chronic issues or soundness issues, etc. Nowadays I have to think hard to name a few healthy always sound ones. :confused: My mare was a spooky, sensitive walking vet bill waiting to happen. Required almost constant care and the few times she was 100% meant I was just staring at her 24/7 waiting for the next new disaster. And I was "normal" because everyone else I know was doing the same thing.
Ridiculous, IMO!
I bought a companion horse for my mare about 18 months ago. A little AQHA bred and trained in South Dakota, brought eventually to a local auction a few years ago where my niece bought him after she got fed up and switched from TB and hunters to western.
I bought him off of her. (Ummm, sorry for the italics but I have no idea why I now have italics and can't find where to shut them off, LOL) He's trained to the nines, sound, healthy, sane, not spooky, no emotional or mental issues and can do pretty much anything in a respectably acceptable style. He'll never be tops at some of the stuff I have fun trying with him like dressage, but he'd do well in low to mid level hunters (If I felt like boring myself to death ;)), low level jumpers, reining (what he's been bred and trained for) working cattle, hunter paces, field hunting, etc.
So when (hey, regular font back yay!) I went to buy another horse, I was happily looking through auctions again for midwest stock type horses. Bought one from ac4h, he's from OK. Appendix QH, has the longer legged more narrow TB build than my other QH and is pretty much the same as Petey. Can probably do a little of everything and in many cases do it pretty darned well. Not top levels, but in *all* honesty who does everything top level all the time? He's 5, been there/done that attitude and healthy, sane and sound.
And all in all...both cost less than the plethora of walking vet bills out there. From now on I'm sticking to my fave kind of horses...ponies, stock type horses, crosses/grades, etc. And if they're from midwest type area bigger farms, all the better. I want to be done with constant never ending vet bills, emergency calls, stall rest, etc. Life's too short and I have to say my stress levels have dropped dramatically now that I don;t have to stare out my window all day wondering who;s going to get sick/injured next. Anytime I feel like it, I can walk down, tack something up and do whatever the heck I feel like on it...from a quiet trail ride to jumping to whatever. And that horse is ready, willing and able to do it. :yes:

[Katy Watts]

Some of it matters for some horses, some of the time. The important thing is to be able to decide what matters at this time, for this horse. It's called 'critical thinking'. If you try to do everything for every horse all the time, yes you will go crazy and throw up your hands.
There is also a lot of crap on the internet and if you believe everything you will become frozen from fear and inertia because everything will be wrong at some time for some horse.
Read less, observe your horses more.

[17handponyrider]

I just recently had the same thought that I can't make my horses sound. I think some horses are sound and some horses are not so sound. I have one mare that had a horrific accident as a 7 year old (killed most of the muscles in her back). She rarely misses a day of work and she is now 18. She is just sound by nature. Strangely enough she is a warm blood and a great mover, and has a great mind. So it is just not stock type horses that are sound. I have a lovely athletic Irish sport horse who falls in the "not so sound" category. I have spent a lot of money on him and as far as I can tell has never been truly sound the whole time I have owned him. Poor thing, has a heart of gold and is a true stoic so I have ridden him unsound (not knowing it) for years.