Speak to me of intermittent water cooling...

[asanders]

When I first started seeing/heaaring about people frenetically soaking and scraping and soaking horses, I was intregied and a little perplexed.

I tried to apply my basic chemistry, physics, and metabolism to the problem, but I was still a little confused. It just seemed like hosing (constant water change) would be more efficient.

I just came in from a ride, and thought about it some more in the shower, and finally got interested enough to do some searching.

Now I'm hoping someone can tell me if I've read this right:

Is it that actually allowing the surface tissues to reheat has a circulatory effect that increases deep tissue cooling?
ETA: see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9458396
I'd really like the references to the original work, because I haven't actually found the paper that compares the water on water off method to constant flow.

[nj2]

Not sure of any "original research" but my guess is that the intermittent nature of "cooling out" goes back to the fact that you do not always have a free flowing supply of water such as a hose to use and will frequently rely on buckets of water for a water supply - hence intermittent water

[asanders]

Not sure of any "original research" but my guess is that the intermittent nature of "cooling out" goes back to the fact that you do not always have a free flowing supply of water such as a hose to use and will frequently rely on buckets of water for a water supply - hence intermittent water


That was kind of what I thought. But I had some people swear that you had to get the water off in between. They were scaping away, even when they had a hose. I thought they had misunderstood the science... but now am not so sure. Hence the questions. Anyone?

[ybiaw]

I think it has more to do with that the water that comes to rest on a horse's body is quickly going to warm up to near the horse's body temperature. But putting cool water on, and then REMOVING that water which has had a chance to warm up, you are able to continually put COOL water on the horse.

Does that even make sense? It does on my head, but as I was typing, I got lost. :confused::lol:

[War Admiral]

I think it has more to do with that the water that comes to rest on a horse's body is quickly going to warm up to near the horse's body temperature. But putting cool water on, and then REMOVING that water which has had a chance to warm up, you are able to continually put COOL water on the horse.

Yep, makes perfect sense. That was the finding in the study done prior to Atlanta '96. The standing water on the horse actually goes well OVER the horse's body temp. if you've got a hot horse in the sun, I believe.

[JoZ]

I learned PART of this a long time ago. I used to hose my horse off then scrape him, more because I generally put him right away in his stall and (I know this is silly) the BO didn't like water drips all down the aisle. It was a VERY clean and tidy barn. But I digress.

When I wasn't in a hurry, I'd hose or slosh my horse off and then hand-graze him, and at first I'd think (rebelliously, LOL) "and I'm not going to even scrape you off so you can stay cool". I was thinking of being wet on the beach or after running through the sprinkler, but boy is it different with horses. In 2 minutes that refreshing water I had left on him was the temperature of a cup of tea! So scraping is really key.

BUT... I still am stuck on wet/scrape/wet/scrape vs. HOSING. I would think that constant hosing would move off and replace the water that was absorbing body and/or sun warmth. So I still am unconvinced.

[ybiaw]

Yep, makes perfect sense. That was the finding in the study done prior to Atlanta '96. The standing water on the horse actually goes well OVER the horse's body temp. if you've got a hot horse in the sun, I believe.

OMG I feel so smart. :D

[deltawave]

It's probably splitting hairs, sponge-and-scrape vs. a continuous stream of cool/cold water. But in many circumstances (such as a 10 minute box at a three day or a remote endurance ride) a continuous stream of cold water is totally impractical, not to mention wasteful.

[BumbleBee]

I always thought it had to do with the evaporation after each scraping session, Like when you sweat if the air is dry it cools you down as it evaporates, in humid areas(like Ontario) your sweat builds up so no cooling really happens as a result of the sweat.

The scraping before rewetting may be more helpful in bucket situations.

Our well water is ICE cold even in the summer so one good hose is all it takes.:yes:

[goodhors]

We scrape the belly, lower neck, water collection areas that have now got the heated water from the top of body. Flowing water, from top of body to lower body, is heating up as it moves, removing heat of body.

Scraping of the all-over body, will aid in breaking the water tension of surface, helping heat get off the body.

Studies I know, say the water has to have air moving over it, or the wet on large, hot body, is like putting a jacket on. Heat can not escape the water layer. So this is where misters, with large fans behind them, both wet and cool the heated body. These studies are the pre-Olympic works done in cooling for the larger, WB style horses in humid air of Atlanta summers. Cattle studies, for milk producing cows. Hot cows don't give as much milk. Spraying them wet only cools for a moment. They will actually overheat being wet, but not having fans to remove the water. Can happen fairly quickly too!

So if I can hose to cool, I will scrape lower horse body only, until I am finished with him. When done cooling, I scrape the whole body clear of water, let the hair stand up to aid in drying body a bit faster.

If I am in the Vet box, with buckets of water, 10 or less minutes to cool each horse, I scrape everything downward, to keep water moving on horse body, removing the heat, sweeping water off the belly area. Running water does the best, but needs constant renewal with more cold water. We may apply sloppy, dripping ice water rags to hot spots, under tail, throatlatch area, between ears if horse allows. Gets water flowing to remove heat.

Good fit animals, have an easier time cooling, body works well to do this. But extreme temps inside body, call for extra aid to cool the horse quicker. We were told the water cools the outer body, bloodstream, which then circulates and keeps bringing heat of interior to surface for cooling the animal. Thermometer is the true way to know if horse is cool or not. Skin can feel like cold meat, yet interior is not cool yet. This is the reason we go back again, check later with thermometer for true indication of horse interior temps.

We do temp checks every 30 minutes for a couple hours AFTER they have been cooled and stalled, following extreme exhertion in competitions. Have had big temp difference from finish to cooled down. Sometimes the deep bodied animals, Sporthorse large body, large animals of 1400-1600 pounds, so the interior may not truly be cooled though the outside few inches of body is cooled. We have seen this happen, so don't want the rising temps to surprise us, hurt the horse. We keep checking temps, gives us peace of mind.

Breeding DOES make a difference. When we competed Arab crosses, I would have laughed at how hard working the groom of WB horse was. My Arab crosses almost cooled themselves even in extreme work and humidity. Sure spoiled us, we didn't really KNOW much about proper cooling then, could have helped them a lot more. Had to learn when we switched breeds, after putting a nice mare into Thumps with ignorance. She recovered all right when some helpful folks gave us good advice at the finish, but it took a VERY LONG couple of hours work cooling her down. Swore we wouldn't do THAT again and haven't. Horses work hard for us, we fix them up after to prevent problems.

[asanders]

So to recap...

Drip dry is no good.

Scraping/sponging
1) gets heated water off
2) breaks surface tension allowing heat to escape

Constant flow of cool water is
1) OK as long as it is not pooling on the horse
2) Not available in the 10-min box
3) Wasteful

If you have an arab, you can blow on them gently and they will be fine... ;)

Thanks all.

[ybiaw]

So to recap...

Drip dry is no good.

Scraping/sponging
1) gets heated water off
2) breaks surface tension allowing heat to escape

Constant flow of cool water is
1) OK as long as it is not pooling on the horse
2) Not available in the 10-min box
3) Wasteful

If you have an arab, you can blow on them gently and they will be fine... ;)

Thanks all.

:lol:

[goodhors]

So to recap...

Drip dry is no good.

Scraping/sponging
1) gets heated water off
2) breaks surface tension allowing heat to escape

Constant flow of cool water is
1) OK as long as it is not pooling on the horse
2) Not available in the 10-min box
3) Wasteful

If you have an arab, you can blow on them gently and they will be fine... ;)

Thanks all.


Amazing condensing of information! Do you work for Reader's Digest?

Yes, I think you have it about right!!