Any guidance in VA........pinto with huge skin allergy needs suggestions!

[florida foxhunter]

I have a dear friend in Warrenton, VA with a lovely pinto CTF foal (5 year old filly) who has had some sort of skin/allergic reaction in the last three months..........she's blistered, sensitive, hot and inflamed all over. She's been on a round of Dex......given ExTem (immune booster shots) and the doctors are at whits end! They're suggesting this "megadose" of steriods which her owner is afraid to do (causing founder).
She's been "off" anything that could provide a reaction (just grass, hay and a handful of the same type of feed she's always had).......They even put her on a "dry lot" the past week or two to stop anything in the pastures that may be causing her problems.
She's lived at this farm since she was a yearling............and they've even switched shavings a few times hoping an allergy to them may be the cause.

Two questions............any sugestions what this could be? AND.......any VETS in Northern VA (or research hospitals) that may specialize in immune diffencies????

Thanks..........

[oldenmare]

Och!!! Poor thing!

I've fed flax seed with GREAT results when having horses with allergic reactions. In these cases, I grind it right before feeding - mix in feed with a little water to make everything stick together (and reduce chances of choke). Also would recommend feeding flax seed to mare if baby is still nursing.

Highly recommend she contact Blue Ridge Equine Hospital (just north of Charlottesville). Great vets there - I highly recommend Dr. Paul Stephens - he saved my 5 month old a couple of years ago and really goes above and beyond - excellent facilty with fabulous reputation.

GOOD LUCK

[Caitlynsmom]

I had a horse who was having similar problems and it turned out to be
that the fly spray in the barn system had been changed to a new formula
and I capped off the nozzle in her stall and she is fine now.

[murphyluv]

Ditto Blue Ridge. Also, you have a PM.

[moribelle]

I have a dear friend in Warrenton, VA with a lovely pinto CTF foal (5 year old filly) who has had some sort of skin/allergic reaction in the last three months..........she's blistered, sensitive, hot and inflamed all over. She's been on a round of Dex......given ExTem (immune booster shots) and the doctors are at whits end! They're suggesting this "megadose" of steriods which her owner is afraid to do (causing founder).
She's been "off" anything that could provide a reaction (just grass, hay and a handful of the same type of feed she's always had).......They even put her on a "dry lot" the past week or two to stop anything in the pastures that may be causing her problems.
She's lived at this farm since she was a yearling............and they've even switched shavings a few times hoping an allergy to them may be the cause.

Two questions............any sugestions what this could be? AND.......any VETS in Northern VA (or research hospitals) that may specialize in immune diffencies????

Thanks..........

What is the fly situation like there? It's entirely possible your horse has allergic reaction to fly bites, and then has set up a bacteria driven allergy.
It happened to my horse, and much as it sounds "old school", we washed her in very warm salt water, YES, salt water, (it kills bacteria you know), and the effect was immediate!
Careful now, as our ponies are very sensitive with their skin, as you've noted already, not to do it too often. Your vet may laugh, but you can't argue with positive results!
Initially, your pony will stomp with the "zinging" of the salt effect, then settle down shortly. Or, if you are near an ocean, take him swimming! Good luck!

[moribelle]

I have a dear friend in Warrenton, VA with a lovely pinto CTF foal (5 year old filly) who has had some sort of skin/allergic reaction in the last three months..........she's blistered, sensitive, hot and inflamed all over. She's been on a round of Dex......given ExTem (immune booster shots) and the doctors are at whits end! They're suggesting this "megadose" of steriods which her owner is afraid to do (causing founder).
She's been "off" anything that could provide a reaction (just grass, hay and a handful of the same type of feed she's always had).......They even put her on a "dry lot" the past week or two to stop anything in the pastures that may be causing her problems.
She's lived at this farm since she was a yearling............and they've even switched shavings a few times hoping an allergy to them may be the cause.

Two questions............any sugestions what this could be? AND.......any VETS in Northern VA (or research hospitals) that may specialize in immune diffencies????

Thanks..........

Oh, and don't forget to wash in between her teats and back legs. This was the worst offender for my mare, she is so relieved now. Her tail is filling back in where she was rubbing it off and so is her mane.:D

[wateryglen]

I've had terrible problems with midge/culocoides allergies in 2 5yr old Canadian born fillies for past few years. Manes/tales rubbed off/out and terrrible midline rubbing/scrapes/oozing sores. I had best success with feeding ground flex seed, sometimes antihistamines (both OTC and prescription), and applying vaseline to all lesions 1-2 times/week. I found that fly mest sheets really helped. AND they both sustained "burns" from using oil based fly sprays ie: I was probably laying it on too strong/thick as I was trying to prevent the bites that start the allergy process. For what it's worth; my Virginny horses aren't bothered much by them. The flyspray that worked best BUT burned them was the TSC Horse & Stable spray.

[ChocoMare]

Read this: http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=155469 ;)

[wateryglen]

Nope, didn't work. Midges are a lot different than onchocerca. But it's worth trying for this otherwise very frustrating problem nevertheless.

We have a well known problem with midges in our area. Most folks just call them gnats! Walk in any deep grassy field and you'll know. They are worse near water & deep grass/weeds/woods. I foothunt with bassets all over this area and the "gnats" are horrible everywhere. And horses have to live out there!! Maybe because we've had a wetter summer than normal?

[pintopiaffe]

Get rid of ALL alfalfa in the diet, and clover as well (dry lot will eliminate clover/other fescues in pasture) this is the culprit in much of the photosensitivity of white horses or horses with white parts. I don't know a number for real, but I'd guess up to 90%.

If that is the source, you'll see a calming of symptoms within 48-72 hrs or so, can be a couple of weeks to completely go away.

If it doesn't help at all, *I* would go to a diet of straight oats and timothy for awhile. From there you can surmise what might be the problem. For some it's soy, for some even a small amount of mollasses, for some, CORN. For the rare horse, oats or timothy are the issue--removeal of them and replacement with barley, orchardgrass etc. can work, but by that point one would hope allergy testing would've been done.

I've had excellent luck in calming photosensitivity issues using a product called Izmine by Dynamite, it is one of their 'free choice' minerals, but force fed at 2-4oz/day makes a dramatic difference. As mentioned above, flax can be very helpful in calming things and then preventing them in the long run. MSM in a double dose (2g) can help quite a bit--some horses get quite flakey on that much. 1g seems to be the tolerance level of mine. Just FYI.

I've been dealing with Paints and Pintos for almost 20 years now. I've yet to have one that has not responded quickly and stayed healthy when processed feeds, and more importantly ALL alfalfa, even a whiff of it in a joint supp or vit/min are removed. I'm SURE there are some out there that have a different issue. But many respond very favorably.

[ksojerio]

Is she responding to the dex? If it is taking down the swelling, she could try using hydroxyzine, a prescription antihistamine, which helped my mare.

I treated my mare with dex and hydroxyzine for a year until I found I could treat her allergy homeopathically with flaxseed, garlic, quercetin and ACV.

[Tillie]

APF might also help.

[pintopiaffe]

I treated my mare with dex and hydroxyzine for a year until I found I could treat her allergy homeopathically with flaxseed, garlic, quercetin and ACV.

Ester C has been shown to help anecdotally as well.

ksojerio (http://chronicleforums.com/Forum/member.php?u=118743) where do you get Quercetin in horsey form/dosages?

[yellowbritches]

My young guy has extremely sensitive skin, thankfully, not as sensitive as the mare in question (he gets hives, but does not blister). We know of at least one food allergy, but in the past month or so we've really struggled with hives again, with no real idea what they were coming from. The boss mentioned them in passing to a local vet (not ours, but a good one) who said that a lot of these sensitive types are breaking out from a combination of two things...first, there is some little form of nettles growing up in a lot of fields in the area that they get into, then, in addition to that, ACID RAIN! He strongly recommended at the very least rinsing off my young guy after he gets caught out in the rain (or, I guess, avoid getting rained on). Also, bathing with a tar based shampoo, or, because it is cheaper with nearly as good results, Mane and Tail shampoo! A very odd set of circumstances, but I do know that my guy was breaking out FAR less when I was religious with his flysheet, and the latest and worst case of hives came after a very rainy few days. I am in Potomac, MD, so while not exactly local to Warrenton, very regional.

This, of course, is totally just a random theory. I would still suggest getting her to a good vet who specializes in this type of thing. We are very close to getting allergy testing done on my guy, as we are very obviously dealing with more than just his known food allergy.

Meanwhile, I will keep the flax seed and Ester C in mind for him!

[rigoletto]

I live about 10 miles from Warrenton and have just had a very similar issue with my yearling Quarterhorse gelding. He is a nurse mare foal that I've raised since he was 12 days old and he's never had any serious allergic issues before, though he was a preemie and is not the sturdiest guy. He has issues with extreme temps... He's sorrel with a lot of white - all 4 legs, face..

About a month and a half ago he started to develop what initially appeared to be a hell of a bad sunburn that just got worse over the course of a week. Then the skin and hair on every white part of his body started to slough off. The areas that had hair were oozing yellow serum. His eyes were swollen and had yellowish discharge. He was a mess, and in a lot of pain. I did some research online and decided to have bloods pulled to check his liver enzymes (which my vet initially said was unnecessary but I insisted. His SGOT, CPK and LDH levels were through the roof and his white count was high. We brought him to the Equine Medical Center in Leesburg for a liver u/s and biopsy but his liver was too small to safely biopsy. More blood was drawn so that more targeted tests, specifically for the liver (bile acids and SDH), could be done. They were normal. Made no sense. He was slightly jaundiced. I was told that with the other enzymes as high as they were, Flash's chance of survival were about 30% if the liver was fibrotic. If he had an infection, he could fully recover. We'd have to wait and see if he responded to treatment. He was a very sick little horse in the beginning of September. Today he was galloping around the paddock and bucking. We've had to make some big changes though. Different paddock, keep him out of the sun, different diet (no alfalfa), monitor water intake, lower protein and higher fat feed. It has been a very long six weeks and I've learned a lot about photosensitivity and the liver. I've had the benefit of consulting with some very good vets (here and in KY.) Flash is doing much better. He has gained back most of the weight he lost, his skin is just about all healed and he is acting like a normal 18 month old gelding again. If you'd like some additional info, feel free to private message me.

I think it's interesting that this mare is so close to me.... One thing I was told by both the vets and by an agronomist is that the severe drought last year and then the dry period we had this summer have possibly affected the forage a great deal. What wasn't appealing to horses before might be now. We're still not sure why Flash became so sick and we'll probably never know. But it pays to take a long hard look at your pastures.

Oh, and our veterinarian in KY recommended APF...

[sid]

Yes, look at your pastures. Check especially for areas of Pigweed that is common in them from late June through now. They like to roll in it because it is prickly and sometimes they even like to nibble on it. Pigweed thrives in a year after a drought (like last year and the bried period we had one this year). Most times it's not a huge problem, though I've seen it in the past, but do google for Pigweed poisoning. That may help.

As long as she has contact with what is offending her it the dex will do nothing. I would dry lot her for 3 weeks and see what happens and let her recover from whatever the offending substance is, pigweed or not, for her own well being and recovery.

[southern]

I am in Virginia and am going through this same problem with my TB. He had it last summer too but it was much, much milder and at the time the vets thought it was just a fungus. When it came back at the exact same time this summer (late June) the vets realized it must be an allergy and we had him allergy tested. He is allergic to just about every bug known to mankind, alfalfa, clover and cotton. We are going to start him on the desensitization shots as soon as his skin "calms" down. We have him on hydroxyzine for the itching and it does seem to make him more comfortable. We have also tried the dex when his skin flares up really badly (hot, inflamed skin and sores covering his torso and butt) but that doesn't really seem to help.

He was finally getting better and I thought we were through with it for the season and it just flared up again in the last two weeks - the same time that the little, black flies came out. I can't wait until it gets cold and this (hopefully) goes away and we can start the allergy shots.

If your friend does end up taking her horse to Blue Ridge, please let us know what she finds out. I would be interested to hear their diagnosis. I still worry that I am dealing with something more than allergies... like an autoimmune disease. It is very frustrating.

[rigoletto]

If the mare is still in the sun and this is a case of photosensitivity, she needs to be stalled during the day. And I'd have her blood drawn. Until then you're just guessing.

Forgot to mention that the first vet who looked at my guy totally misdiagnosed him (I was at the dentist and she was NOT supposed to examine him when I wasn't here) - I already knew it was secondary photosensitivity - meaning there is liver involvement. When the second vet came out to draw blood, she recognized it right away but still didn't seem to understand how serious an issue it was.

[TheOrangeOne]

I don't really think with something like this you should mess with the diet and fields and all of that until you have it under control. In my opinion, getting the horse feeling better is priotity one, and to me, that means taking him or her to the clinic and letting the vets run the allergy tests and such. Blue Ridge has always been great for me to deal with, the care of the horses there is fabulous, and the doctors are very good. That would be my suggestion, then once it's under control, gradually reintroduce things until you figure out the culprit if they can't find it at the clinic.

[HOH]

You've had posters with great suggestions as to how to narrow down and treat the poor filly's skin/allergy reaction. I think a professional equine dermatologist would be a good idea also.

I've had my horse successfully tested and treated for allergies with a series of subq shots. In the meantime, the allergy vet initially recommended Relief hydrocortozone spray and shampoo to sooth the skin irriation and said that any product with Omega-3's in it, like Omega Horseshine, would be beneficial.

[rigoletto]

I agree with those who are suggesting consulting a vet prior to doing anything else. Without getting to the bottom of what's going on, it's all just guess work.

I had very good luck with the Equine Medical Center at Morven Park in Leesburg. Everyone has preferences when it comes to veterinarians. I also like Piedmont Equine very much. This poor mare just needs some relief.

[pintopiaffe]

um, one would assume if the mare has gotten Dex, she's seen a vet. No?

[rigoletto]

um, one would assume if the mare has gotten Dex, she's seen a vet. No?


Yes, one would assume so, but since she is 3 months into this and still suffering, it sounds as if the vet she's seeing may be having a hard time diagnosing the condition. And there was no reference to bloods being done. Not all vets have experience with these issues. Sometimes it pays to get a second opinion. I've just been through this (or something very similar) and if I hadn't been proactive, gotten a second opinion and taken my horse to VA Tech/Morven, he might not have survived. He's not 100% yet but he's much, much better. Sounds dramatic, but I'd certainly want to leave no stone unturned.

There have been some good suggestions here, but with all of the issues this mare has had, I'd be very hesitant to do anything until I pursued a better diagnosis.

[gottagrey]

I'm liking the simplicity of using salt water. :) Many years ago I had a mare that for some reason broke out in some crazy skin allergy thing. First thought it was a bad case of rain rot, then who knows all I know is the poor thing was very nearly completely bald by mid summer. She did not have welts like I've seen on some of these horses these days. We did change her bedding to straw which seemed to help but you never know - what is the straw bedding or was it that she was already nearly bald her coat was starting to grow back now. After that I decided enough was too much. In the hot summer, I rarely bathed her except if I was going to a show. Rather than bathe I curried the sweat. If she was really hot, I'd take a sponge w/ vetrolin and use that but little bathing. I also became a bit lazy w/ the fly spray( now at a show I would definitely load up on the stuff) You know what? - she never ever had another breakout. Sometimes it's just so simple - the simple plain things work the best. I remember a time in Ireland - at a competition - a horse came back from X-country & while we were chatting I noticed blood coming out from under her hoof. What was perfectly natural to me - "GO GET THE VET PRONTO" was met w/ what that'll cost us 60 quid. So guy bent down scooped up some Mud/clay right where we we standing, packed in the mare's hoof and that was that. The trainer came up asked about the blood, I said something again about the vet, the mud packer said he'd packed it w/ mud; trainer said this mud here, yep. I'll be danged if that horse wasn't perfectly sound the next day! If it was here - she'd been on antibiotics, soaked in epsom salts for a week, wrapped w/ duct tape etc etc. i guess I need some of that Irish mud. Anyway I'm digressing.

My advise now is less is more...

best wishes to you and your mare - poor thing

[TheOrangeOne]

Generally if I call my vet and say "hey, muffie is having a bad case of hives, can I get some dex?", I can go pick some up and get instructions to give it for however many days. I keep it on hand just in general, so I don't really think that a course of dex means the horse has been really thoroughly examined by a vet.

[HOH]

I called my local vet first for my horse's bumps, itchiness, etc. He stated that he was allergic to something and prescribed Dex. The Dex gave the horse a few days relief but wasn't treating the cause.

At this point, I felt a dermatologist specialist was needed and we are now treating the cause.

All of the suggestions posted are great to give the filly some relief from her discomfort, but I believe the logical progression to solving her problem is to consult with an equine skin specialist.

[florida foxhunter]

Thanks for the comments. Yes, the vet has been involved in this for quite awhile and is at wits end. Last I heard they were doing the bloodwork. The mare has been on a sand lot for awhile........plus the feed is exactly the same as it's always been. Nothing's made a big difference, but as I mentioned, she seemed to be getting better as her winter coat starts to come in. She's at a lovely farm, with thick grass, impecable stalls. She gets extremely good care. and feed.
I haven't seen the mare in a year, and haven't been able to reach my friend for a few days........so can't give a honest current update.......
I imagine she's busy with the WIHS........but I have left a message for her to be sure to check this thread.......
Thanks all.......
I think one of her main questions was "WHERE" to go next.............who is a vet that is a "dermetologist" for horses???

[silver2]

Could she have a secondary bacterial infection? My dog is prone to those if she gets washed with dog shampoo (to which she is terribly allergic) - she is so itchy she rubs herself raw and it gets infected then rapidly spreads to her entire body- red skin, white and red bumps, pain, heat, itchiness, whining and complaining etc. The heat gives it away and it doesn't go away without antibiotics.