Teaching *FORWARD!* to a Dressage Horse?

[Synrgystyk]

For the past few months I've been riding a 1st/2nd level dressage horse pretty regularly. (I'm still not a dressage rider, but now I might actually be able to play one on TV! :lol:) At home he's very willing and has a great work ethic.

This weekend we went to Frying Pan for an "intro to XC" outing and I discovered that, while this boy has no problem moving off the leg, he's never really learned that "forward" means "forward even if you don't want to." So I need suggestions for remediating this hole in his training. I'm already planning on off-property trail rides (can bring him to the barn where I board -- 300+ acres, varied terrain, stream crossings, natural obstacles, cows, etc.) and incorporating tarps and other "scary things" into our ring work.

Has anyone else dealt with a "sheltered horse" who's just never had to learn the "forward" lesson? As I said, at home he's very responsive to leg aids and tries to please -- he'll work until you say stop, so this isn't an issue with the "work." He's just never learned that forward means forward in *all* situations. (I always incorporate this lesson as part of initial training.)

So if anyone's got other suggestions or ideas, let me know.

Thanks,
Lorree

[broodmare]

you hit the nail on the head. leave the ring, hack, trail ride, gallop. most of them come right around because it is fun. even better in company so he can practice both leading and following.

[asterix]

bwhaahahahaha. Yes. My giant wb was 9 before he managed to sufficiently communicate his dislike for the dressage life and get started on a new career.
He had been worked either in a serious FEI program (indoor, polo wraps, 1 hour bubble wrapped individual turnout, etc.) or by a very timid amateur (indoor, well, you get the picture) until then.

In the 8 months before I bought him he was foxhunted a couple of times, in addition to more traditional jump schools. This seemed to REALLY help him -- any chance you can do that?

Otherwise, lots of hacking out with buddies, learning to just GO.
Probably a ways away for your guy, but mine did the Training 3 day, yup, that was a definite GO. Now he has a big Go button and enjoys pushing it, sometimes without my prior approval :lol:

But it took a while. In terms of boldly taking me to the jumps, to be honest, that took a long while. It did come, but it just took time, correct work, blah blah blah.

Oh, and fitness. Big help there. Unless you've done it with him, I imagine your guy has never done any sets. Start doing them, even if you are shooting for Novice. Helps a lot!

[Synrgystyk]

Broodmare and Asterix,

Thanks! I'm glad I'm not the only one who's run across this issue. No, he hasn't done conditioning sets or galloping -- and very little riding in company. He's a breeding stallion so I have to be careful with the "in company" thing. :eek: :lol:

Luckily, his owner really wants to get him out and compete. According to her he likes to jump (based on him free-lungeing himself over fences in the indoor) and a jumping saddle is on order. Now that we're (he and I) sorta on the same page dressage-wise, I'm planning on incorporating more "eventing" oriented exercises and conditioning. He's fit enough for 45 min or so of dressage work, but he'll need more before we do much in the way of jumping.

I don't know if he'll end up liking XC enough to compete at eventing (BN or N is likely as far as his owner would want to do), but he needs to learn "forward" regardless. But even if we just do CTs and the occasional trail ride/XC school, I think he'll really benefit from the variety. (He was starting to like the big open field at FPP. A bit more exposure to that sort of environment should hopefully start to pique his "forward" interest.)

Keep the suggestions coming!

Lorree

[Bogie]

I, too, was going to suggest foxhunting. It definitely installed the forward button on my warmblood! However, since he's a breeding stallion, that might not work :lol:.

I would still do most of your riding outside of a ring. My warmblood is much more forward in a field or out on the trail. I also make sure that I do a lot of transitions within gaits (canter - hand gallop - canter, for instance). I find that creating a "surge" within a gait is very helpful at making them think forward.

[Synrgystyk]

Bogie,

"Surges" within gaits! I hadn't thought of that (though we've been working on extensions a bit -- he has them better than I do). Personally, I'd love to go foxhunting with him, but it might be a bit more "interesting" than I'd like. I'm working with him on riding with other horses (we can school dressage movements in a ring with other horses and he'll stay focused even when passing in close proximity) in a trail or XC school situation, but he's easily umm...distracted. Apparently it's very "intriguing" for him to watch another horse jump. :rolleyes:

Interestingly, when schooling at FPP, he seemed to prefer watching the Friesian to watching my horse (big pinto Paint/TBX). Both are geldings. I think if we use the Friesian as a "lead" horse, he'll follow him anywhere.... :eek:

Lorree

[yellowbritches]

I've had this issue, but with a former Big Eq horse. He had the most lovely, rhythmical canter that you could jump out of all day long, and he had a "hand gallop" (ever so slightly bigger canter), but he had ZERO clue about GALLOP! I actually got him to get it a bit more at Frying Pan...I just kept saying, no, really, GO FASTER. It took a few tries, but he did finally gallop on a little and enjoyed it...he was never going to be fast, but he did finally figure out gallop.

The other thing that works is taking them out with a horse who DOES gallop. Usually a little competition/follow the leader, lights their fire a little. And if you can work in a BIG ring, or better yet, a nice open field, spend time each ride working on not just lengthening the canter (he should do that easily), but really getting out of the saddle and galloping him on a bit.

[Synrgystyk]

Amanda,

Yes, galloping (more than our current do-you-really-mean-go-*fast*? barely hand gallop) is in the future. But I'm waiting for the arrival of the jumping saddle before I do too much in that area -- removing the velcro'd knee rolls and shortening the stirrups in the dressage saddle just isn't enough as I discovered on Saturday. *I* really need to crank my stirrups up for any sort of terrain, speed, or jumping.

Hopefully the jumping saddle arrives sometime in November. Until then we'll work on trails and natural "steppable" obstacles -- and incorporate tarps and stuff into our ring work.

Luckily, once we're ready, I've got no shortage of willing galloping companions. :D

Lorree

[CBudFrggy]

Funny that he watches the Friesian jump! I've seen reining horses come to our barn from "out west" and the first time they see a hunter jump can be a big spooky thing. Apparently, they've never seen a horse jump before.

[sunnycher]

When I lived in Reno, I hunted with the Red Rock hounds, and Willy Arts (dressage trainer from Ca) would send his babies (mostly) who got 'stuck' up to foxhunt for a few months. It always worked wonders for them. It was really fun watching a bred-for-dressage moving horse to an EXTENDED trot - just WOW!!! Good luck!

[Blugal]

Normally I'd suggest ponying, but it sounds like that might not be do-able in your situation. I saw a big WB stallion being ponied off a 14.2 or so QH through a huge creek this spring - didn't like the idea at first, but got the hang of it eventually.

It always helps to pony with a western saddle (and a smart pony horse). They figure out pretty quickly that they don't have much choice in the matter, and stop worrying about whether *they* want to do whatever it is. I think this is the crux of "go means go" - it's a response, not a choice.

[Synrgystyk]

Funny that he watches the Friesian jump! I've seen reining horses come to our barn from "out west" and the first time they see a hunter jump can be a big spooky thing. Apparently, they've never seen a horse jump before.

Yes, he watched both horses jump, but the only one that seemed to pique his interest was the Friesian.

Lorree

[Synrgystyk]

Normally I'd suggest ponying, but it sounds like that might not be do-able in your situation. ... I think this is the crux of "go means go" - it's a response, not a choice.

Blugal,

I'd love to try ponying with him, but I don't think it'd be safe. He seems to assume that *any* other horse is a potential "mate" even if it's a gelding. Too bad, really, since the barn where I board has riders of all disciplines and I can think of a couple (horses and riders) who'd be more than willing to provide ponying services.

I may have to rig up something with a lunge cavesson and lunge line for our first few encounters with stream crossings. I don't think he's ever been asked to cross running water -- the barn property is on either side of a small, shallow river -- and he was throwing huge fits about stepping over a barely-visible rivulet at Frying Pan Park.

You hit the nail on the head with the distinction between "response" and "choice." He thinks it's a choice. Now I get to teach him that when I add leg, I mean FORWARD NOW and expect the response to be immediate. :yes:

Lorree

[Janet]

... and he was throwing huge fits about stepping over a barely-visible rivulet at Frying Pan Park.

You hit the nail on the head with the distinction between "response" and "choice." He thinks it's a choice. Now I get to teach him that when I add leg, I mean FORWARD NOW and expect the response to be immediate. :yes:

Lorree
That is another aspect of the same thing, and I would work on that FIRST, before worrying about "going faster when I say so".

Start with something he finds SLIGHTLY scary (funny colored rail, small flowerbox, rolled up tarp), with wings or something ot make it harder for him to sneak around the side, and going towards home. It is more a quesion of patience and determination than actual riding technique. Eventually he will figure out that if you say "go over that tarp", he HAS to go forward over the tarp. When he will go over it without even hesitating (because "you say so" as much as because "it isn't scary anymore") do it with soemthing else, possibly more scary. Sometines you may need ot get off and lead, or have him follow another horse. But the exercise isn't "completed" (even if it takes several sessions to complete) until you get the response of "I am going forward over that scary thing because SHE says so".

And of course LOTS of praise and reward when he does.

Then that mental response should carry over to galloping in the open, though you may want a lead the first few times.