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View Full Version : Need some help picking a holsteiner stallion for a hunter



Rendaivu
Oct. 5, 2008, 07:53 PM
I realize that AHHA has a smaller stud book then some registries so I am looking for some help finding a holsteiner stallion for my mare. I want to produce a hunter. Here is what I am looking for;

Good size (mare is 15.3h)
Great trot (something along the lines of Don Alfredo)
Great jump

The mare has good conformation, A++ temperament, and is quite pretty. Jump and movement are decent but need some improvement hunter style ;)

I love love love Cunningham but am skeptical about his trot. I realize he has won most of his U/S classes only placing 2nd twice but an online video that I found didn't impress me for my mare.

I think Cabardino is too small for my mare though I do like him (bred another mare to him last year).

Does anyone have any suggestions for a holsteiner approved stallion that will produce a hunter with the above traits? Some suggestions would be greatly appreciated. :)

goodmorning
Oct. 5, 2008, 08:04 PM
Is Crown Affair approved AHHA? He's worth looking into.

What are the lines of your mare?

watertownrider
Oct. 5, 2008, 08:14 PM
Crooked Willow has a couple that are producing really nice hunters. Chaleon is producing some very fancy hunters that are winning on the line and in the hunters. They also have Acord III who's offspring are winning a bunch on the line and in the hunters. His offspring are very easy and quiet and move and jump great. Most Holsteiners don't move great as they have been bred for jumpers. You can check out Chaleon and Acord III at www.crookedwillowfarms.com

RockingN
Oct. 5, 2008, 08:41 PM
I second Crown Affair

but I REALLY like Cabardino may not be big enough but here he is anyway
http://www.charlotfarm.com/pour%20gagne.htm

if not then what about:
Superman
http://www.allstallionsdirectory.com/wbdirnew/holst/ho0028/ho0028ba.htm

Haven't heard of this one but Lord's Orion
http://www.lordsorion.com/

karin@dutchbreeders@aol.com
Oct. 5, 2008, 09:44 PM
Hi there!
Lupicor might be just what you are looking for! As long as your mare is short coupled, and doesn't have alot of knee action, he can give you great movement, scope, style and size. We adore our Lupicor X Goodtimes colt Carte Blanche SCF. He was the #1 Jumper foal in the country for the KWPN-NA last year. Our friends bred a Rampal mare to Lupicor and have a colt they adore that has it all going for him too....Beauty, movement, correctness etc. This colt, Duplicor, was the #3 Jumper Foal in the USA this year for the KWPN! Lupicor (Lux X Pilot X Cor de la Bryere) unfortunately did pass away at a very young age this year, but good frozen semen is available . Please see the below link for info and photos etc...


http://www.longwoodstables.com/Stallions/deWeimselbach/Lupicor.html

The US representative for Lupicor's sement is Longwood Stables. Tracy is great to work with, and can also help guide you.

Good Luck!!!
Warmly,
Karin

Bayhawk
Oct. 6, 2008, 12:01 AM
Crooked Willow has a couple that are producing really nice hunters. Chaleon is producing some very fancy hunters that are winning on the line and in the hunters. They also have Acord III who's offspring are winning a bunch on the line and in the hunters. His offspring are very easy and quiet and move and jump great. Most Holsteiners don't move great as they have been bred for jumpers. You can check out Chaleon and Acord III at www.crookedwillowfarms.com


This has to be one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. Holsteiners are phenomenal movers as was evidenced by last years Holsteiner stallion approvals where these "jumper stallions" were also proclaimed to be some of the best movers in the world !!!!!

You can always find many of the worlds top dressage riders (including Anky Van Gunsven) at the Holsteiner stallion approvals every year looking for their next dressage mount.

Get educated people !

Dazednconfused
Oct. 6, 2008, 12:22 AM
This has to be one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. Holsteiners are phenomenal movers as was evidenced by last years Holsteiner stallion approvals where these "jumper stallions" were also proclaimed to be some of the best movers in the world !!!!!

You can always find many of the worlds top dressage riders (including Anky Van Gunsven) at the Holsteiner stallion approvals every year looking for their next dressage mount.

Get educated people !

Moving great for dressage is an entirely different kind of movement ;)

busybee
Oct. 6, 2008, 08:24 AM
[QUOTEThis has to be one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. Holsteiners are phenomenal movers as was evidenced by last years Holsteiner stallion approvals where these "jumper stallions" were also proclaimed to be some of the best movers in the world !!!!!

You can always find many of the worlds top dressage riders (including Anky Van Gunsven) at the Holsteiner stallion approvals every year looking for their next dressage mount.

Get educated people ![/QUOTE]

You just proved her point, hunter riders don't want that movement. "Get educated". :)

Bayhawk
Oct. 6, 2008, 08:32 AM
[QUOTEThis has to be one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. Holsteiners are phenomenal movers as was evidenced by last years Holsteiner stallion approvals where these "jumper stallions" were also proclaimed to be some of the best movers in the world !!!!!

You can always find many of the worlds top dressage riders (including Anky Van Gunsven) at the Holsteiner stallion approvals every year looking for their next dressage mount.

Get educated people !

You just proved her point, hunter riders don't want that movement. "Get educated". :)[/QUOTE]

The quote was "most Holsteiners don't move great because they are bred for jumpers". Untrue and Uneducated ........no matter what you are trying to breed for.

fish
Oct. 6, 2008, 08:35 AM
[QUOTEThis has to be one of the most uneducated statements I've ever heard. Holsteiners are phenomenal movers as was evidenced by last years Holsteiner stallion approvals where these "jumper stallions" were also proclaimed to be some of the best movers in the world !!!!!

You can always find many of the worlds top dressage riders (including Anky Van Gunsven) at the Holsteiner stallion approvals every year looking for their next dressage mount.

Get educated people !

You just proved her point, hunter riders don't want that movement. "Get educated". :)[/QUOTE]

Can you imagine trying to turn Salinero or Bonfire into a hunter??????

Sakura Hill Farm
Oct. 6, 2008, 09:28 AM
Cunningham!

Oh! now I see he was in your first post!

Bayhawk
Oct. 6, 2008, 10:51 AM
Cunningham!

Oh! now I see he was in your first post!

According to the poster , the Holsteiner Verband approved , winner of all things Hunter , Cunningham , doesn't "move" well enough for her mare. Cunningham's father , Cassini I ....... top rated Hunter sire in the U.S. , must not move well enough either.

Quinn
Oct. 6, 2008, 10:54 AM
Would like to cast my vote for Cabardino. Beautiful animal with a lovely temperament and a jump that takes your breath away.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

Rendaivu
Oct. 6, 2008, 11:13 AM
According to the poster , the Holsteiner Verband approved , winner of all things Hunter , Cunningham , doesn't "move" well enough for her mare. Cunningham's father , Cassini I ....... top rated Hunter sire in the U.S. , must not move well enough either.

Here is the video i am judging by; http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=4561759

I, like most breeders, am trying not only to produce a foal, but produce the best foal I can. I believe my mare is a good mare or I would not be breeding her. However, I would love to see a more hunter type trot from her. The type of trot you see on horses such as Don Alfredo and Westporte. I am aware that Cunningham has been very successful (even placing over Westeport in a hack class). I am in no way demeaning this stallion or his impressive accomplishments.

I just am not sure that Cunningham would improve my mares trot. I think everything else would improve/compliment, just not sure on the trot. If the horse in the video is not the mentioned stallion, or you have another video to share that shows something different I would love to see it because I would really like to use him.

ponygirl
Oct. 6, 2008, 11:49 AM
Ariadus has had some hunter offspring at WEF do well so he might be an option.

fish
Oct. 6, 2008, 11:50 AM
Here is the video i am judging by; http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=4561759

I, like most breeders, am trying not only to produce a foal, but produce the best foal I can. I believe my mare is a good mare or I would not be breeding her. However, I would love to see a more hunter type trot from her. The type of trot you see on horses such as Don Alfredo and Westporte. I am aware that Cunningham has been very successful (even placing over Westeport in a hack class). I am in no way demeaning this stallion or his impressive accomplishments.

I just am not sure that Cunningham would improve my mares trot. I think everything else would improve/compliment, just not sure on the trot. If the horse in the video is not the mentioned stallion, or you have another video to share that shows something different I would love to see it because I would really like to use him.

I doubt there is any stronger supporter of Cunningham than I, but it is true that he is not an absolutely top hunter mover. His canter, jump, conformation, manners, etc., are awesome, but his trot does not beat Westporte's or Hush's, for example , in a hunter under saddle class if all horses show their best. If you look at Cunningham's entire record, you will see that while he almost always wins all his classes, including the U/S, in the Conformation divisions, he is more often 2nd or 3rd hacking in the Regulars or AA (which he has just started under his owner.) It is his success as a model which can easily give him the edge so he sweeps the confo. divisions.

If you like Cunningham for your mare otherwise, however, I would encourage you to call Mary and ask to see more videos. Personally, I very much liked Cunningham's trot at his keuring, and IMO, my 2003 colt by him is a better hunter mover than either of his parents.

I wish you success in finding the best match for your mare.

showjumpers66
Oct. 6, 2008, 12:04 PM
Just keep in mind that when you breed for that trot, you are also breeding the scope and power out.

I would put in another vote for Cabardino. I wouldn't worry about the size as he seems to be adding size to his foals. My friend's TB mare has been bred to Balta' Czar, Just the Best, Rio Grande, and Cabardino. This mare is a very narrow, light boned mare. Her colt by Cabardino is the nicest of the four and is also much heavier boned than the others. He was at a bit of an ugly age, but he is a very, very nice colt.

http://www.photostockplus.com/home.php?user_id=18633&tmpl=29&event=215401&action=viewphoto&photo_id=11658169&album_id=215409

http://www.photostockplus.com/home.php?user_id=18633&tmpl=29&event=215401&action=viewphoto&photo_id=11658151&album_id=215409

EquineLVR
Oct. 6, 2008, 12:42 PM
Apiro...

arizonard
Oct. 6, 2008, 12:58 PM
I don't think Apiro is approved AHHA...

Rendaivu
Oct. 6, 2008, 01:01 PM
Apiro...

I would use Apiro in a heart beat but he is not approved AHHA :(

CAJumper
Oct. 6, 2008, 01:06 PM
Liostro, Liocalyon, Chaleon...those would be my top picks. Cunningham if he's approved (not sure about that?).

ponygirl
Oct. 6, 2008, 01:29 PM
Cunningham is approved AHHA. He's lovely

Samotis
Oct. 6, 2008, 02:31 PM
I would vote for Chaleon. He has a great canter across the ground and a very good trot. Fab jumper too. Not to mention a great mind.

He also puts a beautiful head and neck on one.

I just got back from an Old NA inspection and the site champions were very uphill dressage bred babies. My colt and a couple other hunter bred foals did not score great in the movement because they were too "flat".

To each his own, but you do want to at least try to breed to a stallion that is known to produce a flatter hunter type movement.:)

Good luck.

Foxtrot's
Oct. 6, 2008, 02:51 PM
Please.....easy, Bayhawk. The tone of this board has improved considerably in the last little while. It is fine to have a viewpoint at odds with everybody else, it is just how it is phrased. Thanks.

horserider12
Oct. 6, 2008, 02:54 PM
my colt is by cartano (grand prix jumper) by carthago who is the leading holsteiner stallion in germany. He is absolutely bred as a jumper, both mother and father were on their nations teams and grandfather has been to the olympics twice, but he is winning in the hunter breeding as a 2 year old and is a drop dead gorgeous mover, will definitely get a top hunter hack prize as it is a combination of that hunter trot with a floaty dressage movement, and he free jumps to die for. He is very easy under saddle Yes, he will be a jumper in the long run for me, but i am looking forward to doing the hunters in these younger years as he will be highly competitive. You should look into carthago lines.....

EquineLVR
Oct. 6, 2008, 03:02 PM
sorry missed the detail about AHHA - I also second and third Chaleon.. I live right by him and we have one 4 yr old in our barn - LOVELY babies.

Sakura Hill Farm
Oct. 6, 2008, 03:16 PM
Which registries in the States are Cunningham progeny eligible for registry in? AHHA, for sure, and then....? Was he approved in Germany? That would open up BWP and KWPN but I am not sure of his status. Can someone shed some light on this?

fish
Oct. 6, 2008, 03:38 PM
Which registries in the States are Cunningham progeny eligible for registry in? AHHA, for sure, and then....? Was he approved in Germany? That would open up BWP and KWPN but I am not sure of his status. Can someone shed some light on this?

He's fully approved AHHA and ISR/Old. N.A. He was approved as a 2 (or 3?) y.o. in Germany, but was imported to California directly after the approvals and never did a 100 DT. AHHA and ISR approved him on the basis of his show record in the hunters.

GOV told me they would not accept him or his offspring because a hunter record-- even including national championships at the highest levels-- is supposedly insufficient proof that a horse can really jump.

Sakura Hill Farm
Oct. 6, 2008, 04:24 PM
Thanks!

Sebastian
Oct. 6, 2008, 08:45 PM
Hey Rendiavu,
As fish can attest to...I am also a HUGE Cunningham fan.

FWIW, here is a little video of my mare (from a year ago) when she was first under saddle (about 3 months here). Her dam was a Landgraf daughter and, beautiful as she was, did not have much of a trot. As you'll see from the vid, my filly did not suffer in that department -- and has only gotten better with time and training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5FEZkMo3WM

Enjoy, and good luck!
Seb :)

TKR
Oct. 6, 2008, 09:41 PM
What about Love Affair? Isn't he AHHA and a hunter type?
PennyG

Donella
Oct. 7, 2008, 12:20 AM
Is frozen an option? I am not a hunter breeder nor do I really know anything about it, but I do know beautiful is a big deal as is a nice jump and this stallion sure looks fantastic! He is Landadel x Contender!
http://www.fp.agenturserver.eu/kempkehof/englisch/hengste_lancado.htm#Fotos

Talk about BEAUTIFUL face and check out the foals!

spacely
Oct. 7, 2008, 12:59 AM
Probably not the most popular suggestion, but I have a yearling by Chaka Khan out of a TB mare that I just adore. She's definitely going to be a hunter & moves better & better as she gets older. Her picture is below as well as his. I need to take new pictures as she has grown & filled out a ton since that pic was taken a few months ago. Otherwise Cunningham, Chaleon & Cabardino are all great suggestions. I have seen both Chaleon & Cunningham in the flesh & both are lovely boys.

I wasn't a Cunningham fan for a long time but saw him at the Old NA inspection & very much changed my mind about him. I'd rather have one jump like him than win the hack any day. :yes:

ShowjumpersUSA
Oct. 7, 2008, 01:36 AM
(Donella.... beautiful stallion!)

As for a Holsteiner hunter stallion, I think all the usual suspects have been mentioned. I have never bred one of my mares to any of them (yet) but you couldn't make a mistake if you picked one of these while blindfolded. And it's easy to sell a foal by a popular stallion if it doesn't have the movement you're looking for.

Just one thing I want to mention. A story to tell... I have a colt who moves like a dream hunter. He's by Campesino...who didn't move like a hunter at all! I was amazed by the movement he got from his mother. I can't help but wonder how much the stallion contributes to the foal's movement? I know the jump was transmitted but the movement at the trot is totally mom.

In the picture above of the beautiful Chaka Kahn filly, you can definitely see the TB influence, although she is the color of her sire. CK is a high bonneted stallion, but is only half (at best) of the equation.

All of this to say, I hope you really like your mare and won't be disappointed if the foal is very much like her. A stallion can only do so much. I do think you can improve, but not completely change the mare. You can add power and scope... but I'm just not at all sure about the flat knee movement you want if the mare doesn't already have it.

One thing you could do is go to Crooked Willow's website and look at the videos of the Chaleon foals. If the other stallion's websites have similar videos, you might want to look at those, too.

As for size, I think Cunningham has them all beat. He's a big boy.

spacely
Oct. 7, 2008, 02:02 AM
Showjumpers, she's also the color of her mother as well.;) While I agree you can see the TB influence in my filly, she's actually more refined than her dam & a better mover. Chaka himself isn't a great mover for the hunters, but out of the right mare, I have seen some lovely movers by him. He did well in the regulars & in the jumper ring out here. I've added a pic of her dam above. I'd love to put the mare back to another C-line stallion to see what she does.

I actually tend to think the mare has more influence on movement than the stallion. I could be way off base, but JMHO.

DownYonder
Oct. 7, 2008, 05:50 AM
GOV told me they would not accept him or his offspring because a hunter record-- even including national championships at the highest levels-- is supposedly insufficient proof that a horse can really jump.

Not because it is "insufficient proof that the horse can jump" but because of reciprocity with Germany. Stallions approved by Oldenburg (GOV) here in the North America are also automatically considered approved for breeding in Germany, and in Germany they do not (can not) approve stallions based on hunter performance.

I am curious, though - is Chaleon the grey stallion that used to be here in Georgia? If so, I saw him quite a few years ago and thought he would make a really lovely hunter stallion.

fish
Oct. 7, 2008, 09:07 AM
Not because it is "insufficient proof that the horse can jump" but because of reciprocity with Germany. Stallions approved by Oldenburg (GOV) here in the North America are also automatically considered approved for breeding in Germany, and in Germany they do not (can not) approve stallions based on hunter performance.



I do wonder if the Germans/Europeans might consider changing this, considering that a hunter winning in the recognized divisions certainly(IMO) proves at least as much as can be proved in a 100DT, and hunter trainers have long been a large part of their market.

I find it interesting that Cunningham's picture and h/j achievements are included in the recently released book on descendants of Cottage Son available only in German, but Germans "do not (can not) approve stallions based on hunter performance."

I've been happy to see a great many WB registries making efforts to learn more about and be more welcoming to h/j than they have been in the past. If, however, these registries really do want h/j people to respect and desire their registrations, I think respect and desire for the horses and what they do must be fully reciprocal.

I have long found it ironic that so many registry reps. would lambast hunter people for failing to register their horses while simultaneously defending the fact that hunter people have frequently brought their horses to inspections only to hear the inspectors proclaim "we're not breeding hunters!" "too hunterly," and the like, demanding that hunter prospects be presented in ways potentially detrimental to h/j careers (e.g. over-stimulated for the sake of elevation/suspension) for the sake of WB approval.

I think opportunities to learn from the Europeans are wonderful, but enjoy even more occasions when the learning goes both ways, with mutual respect for the sometimes different goals which can often be pursued by the same horses.

EquineLVR
Oct. 7, 2008, 11:27 AM
Not because it is "insufficient proof that the horse can jump" but because of reciprocity with Germany. Stallions approved by Oldenburg (GOV) here in the North America are also automatically considered approved for breeding in Germany, and in Germany they do not (can not) approve stallions based on hunter performance.

I am curious, though - is Chaleon the grey stallion that used to be here in Georgia? If so, I saw him quite a few years ago and thought he would make a really lovely hunter stallion.


I am about 99.9% sure Chaleon has never stood in Georgia.. I believe Crooked Willow imported him themselves and he has always been there.

DownYonder
Oct. 7, 2008, 12:20 PM
I do wonder if the Germans/Europeans might consider changing this, considering that a hunter winning in the recognized divisions certainly(IMO) proves at least as much as can be proved in a 100DT, and hunter trainers have long been a large part of their market.

I am not sure it could happen, since hunters are not a tradition in German, and not something that is deliberately bred for. I think there would also be a very loud hue and cry from German breeders and other registries if one of the Verbands elected to approve a stallion based on its performance in the hunters. It could be it is not even legal under German breeding law and might get the Verband in trouble with the Agricultural Ministry.


I find it interesting that Cunningham's picture and h/j achievements are included in the recently released book on descendants of Cottage Son available only in German, but Germans "do not (can not) approve stallions based on hunter performance."

Cunningham was temporarily licensed by the Holsteiner Verband in Germany as a young stallion before he was exported to N.A. His approval was based on his potential as a young jumper stallion and had nothing to do with his success as a hunter after he came to the U.S. I would think that his license with the Holsteiner Verband has probably expired by now since he hasn't met the mandated performance requirements.

DownYonder
Oct. 7, 2008, 12:23 PM
I am about 99.9% sure Chaleon has never stood in Georgia.. I believe Crooked Willow imported him themselves and he has always been there.

Thanks, I guess I am thinking of a different one - a very handsome grey Holsteiner stallion who was in these parts about, um - 6-8 years ago.

not again
Oct. 7, 2008, 12:47 PM
http://www.charlotfarm.com/pour%20gagne.htm

showjumpers66
Oct. 7, 2008, 12:58 PM
If you are game for frozen semen, you might consider Discovery. I saw him at his Holsteiner keuring and he definetly had a hunter jump.

goodmorning
Oct. 7, 2008, 06:52 PM
You know, I was just looking up who Vida Blue was by, and was very happy to discover she is by Chambertin. I am very fond of these horses stemming from Cambridge, I know the mare is a large part of the equation, but Cambridge is a classy looking individual, and I can't help but notice this in his offspring - not to mention they seem to be most successfully crossed with Cor De lines - so the the jump is all there ;) Anyways, Vida Blue is quite nice, so you might want to look into the likes of Chacco Blue, Chalan, Catoki, and Cascall. Not sure if they will get rid of the knee action, but thought it would be worth a mention.

ShowjumpersUSA
Oct. 7, 2008, 09:00 PM
Showjumpers, she's also the color of her mother as well.;) While I agree you can see the TB influence in my filly, she's actually more refined than her dam & a better mover. Chaka himself isn't a great mover for the hunters, but out of the right mare, I have seen some lovely movers by him. He did well in the regulars & in the jumper ring out here. I've added a pic of her dam above. I'd love to put the mare back to another C-line stallion to see what she does.

I actually tend to think the mare has more influence on movement than the stallion. I could be way off base, but JMHO.

Yes, I see she is the color of her dam but more refined. For a C line stallion... do you mean Corde or Capitol?

I also think movement comes primarily from the mare. Chaka Kahn did a nice job on your mare, by the way. :cool:

ShowjumpersUSA
Oct. 7, 2008, 09:05 PM
Cunningham was temporarily licensed by the Holsteiner Verband in Germany as a young stallion before he was exported to N.A. His approval was based on his potential as a young jumper stallion and had nothing to do with his success as a hunter after he came to the U.S. I would think that his license with the Holsteiner Verband has probably expired by now since he hasn't met the mandated performance requirements.

Actually, Cunningham was approved but not licensed by the Holsteiner Verband. He was imported before he did his 100 day test. Consequently, he was not licensed in Germany.

He was temporarily licensed by the AHHA... but don't know what his status is now.

spacely
Oct. 7, 2008, 11:18 PM
Yes, I see she is the color of her dam but more refined. For a C line stallion... do you mean Corde or Capitol?

I also think movement comes primarily from the mare. Chaka Kahn did a nice job on your mare, by the way. :cool:

I mean Corde but I wouldn't be opposed to trying a Capitol line stallion on her either. The goal is a hunter. The mare needs a leggy stallion first & foremost.

showjumpers66
Oct. 8, 2008, 12:11 AM
Cacique is Cambridge/Linaro and is approved with AHHA. I have a stunning 3 year old Holsteiner mare by Cacique. Vega is a very nice hunter type, but much of that type is coming from her dam, Foxen (by Pregelstrand out of TB mare). Foxen is the great-granddam of the approved stallions, Balta' Czar and Aslan. For what it is worth, Vega is in foal to Apiro. :winkgrin:

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/VegaInsp1.jpg

http://www.silvercreeksporthorses.com/images/VegaTrot.jpg

Silly Mommy
Oct. 8, 2008, 12:36 AM
Ariadus has had some hunter offspring at WEF do well so he might be an option.


IME, Ariadus' get jump AMAZINGLY, but move like sewing machines at the trot.

DownYonder
Oct. 8, 2008, 06:28 AM
Actually, Cunningham was approved but not licensed by the Holsteiner Verband. He was imported before he did his 100 day test. Consequently, he was not licensed in Germany.

He was temporarily licensed by the AHHA... but don't know what his status is now.

Sounds like the Holsteiners use different terminology than Oldenburg (with which I am most familiar). With Oldenburg, if a young stallion is "approved", he gets a temporary license that allows him to breed till the end of his 6 y/o year (he needs to do at least a 30 day test during this time - generally as a 3 y/o). If he hasn't completed his performance requirements by the end of his 6 y/o year, his license automatically expires. He can earn the license back by completing the performance requirements.

sixpoundfarm
Oct. 8, 2008, 07:13 AM
Cacique is Cambridge/Linaro and is approved with AHHA. I have a stunning 3 year old Holsteiner mare by Cacique. Vega is a very nice hunter type, but much of that type is coming from her dam, Foxen (by Pregelstrand out of TB mare). Foxen is the great-granddam of the approved stallions, Balta' Czar and Aslan.[/url]

I wish they had some jumping photos of Cacique available, but he's mostly been pointed at a Dressage career. I ordered the 100 DT video just to see him jump a little. LOL.

ponygirl
Oct. 8, 2008, 09:06 AM
IME, Ariadus' get jump AMAZINGLY, but move like sewing machines at the trot.

I got one that just got an 8 on trot at inspections. She and her dam move really well. No sewing machine here :)

ponygirl
Oct. 8, 2008, 09:08 AM
I wish they had some jumping photos of Cacique available, but he's mostly been pointed at a Dressage career. I ordered the 100 DT video just to see him jump a little. LOL.

If you like cambridge sons, take a peek at Catiago. http://www.birchhollowhorses.com/Catiago.htm

showjumpers66
Oct. 8, 2008, 12:53 PM
This is the only one that I am aware of - http://www.horsegateranch.com/Pics/horse/1.jpg

Silly Mommy
Oct. 8, 2008, 01:54 PM
I got one that just got an 8 on trot at inspections. She and her dam move really well. No sewing machine here
__________________


Ahhh, but here is where there is disconnect. An 8 at an inspection is not what she is looking for - she wants HUNTER movement. One that I had recently, scored very well at inspection (was a stallion candidate, blah blah blah) Once he started his hunter career, won all his jumping classes, but had too much knee action for the flat classes.

ponygirl
Oct. 8, 2008, 04:40 PM
Ahhh, but here is where there is disconnect. An 8 at an inspection is not what she is looking for - she wants HUNTER movement. One that I had recently, scored very well at inspection (was a stallion candidate, blah blah blah) Once he started his hunter career, won all his jumping classes, but had too much knee action for the flat classes.

She has very little knee action. She has tremendous freedom of shoulder as does her dam. My mare that got a 9 in trot has boat loads of knee action and was, believe it or not, a high pinning hack horse in the hunters on circuit at WEF. Blows my mind.

baywithchrome2
Oct. 8, 2008, 05:02 PM
Another owner of an Ariadus who is screaming to go to the hunter ring... complete package for the A-circuit - type, jump, movement and that modern, leggy head turning look that would capture a judge's eye. Is she the perfect daisy cutter? No, but I'd bet she'd pin top 3 in a very competitive hack. I actually wish mine had more knee action as I tend to like more action in front. IMHO, a nice combination of a horse who can be competitive in both the o/f as well as hack.

She's also got a huge stride and a ton of scope... getting down the lines in the Working Hunters would be no problem for her.

http://avenir-farm.com/#/papillon/4515505494

I've seen Ponygirl's Ariadus in person... she could go to the hunter ring in a heartbeat.

Bonus points with Ariadus... you'll also get a helluva tail.

goodmorning
Oct. 8, 2008, 05:11 PM
I have to agree with Silly Mommy here - there are many, many videos of Ariadus offspring available online, and I would say that most are not hack winners. In fact, there are quite a few with too much action for the hunter ring at all. However, he does make some lovely hunters, and with the right mare, I'm sure he could produce a lovely trot - but this is not an area I'd look for him to improve on.

Sebastian
Oct. 8, 2008, 06:57 PM
Actually, Cunningham was approved but not licensed by the Holsteiner Verband. He was imported before he did his 100 day test. Consequently, he was not licensed in Germany.

He was temporarily licensed by the AHHA... but don't know what his status is now.

Just so no one gets confused... Cunningham is approved AHHA.

Seb :)

BravAddict
Oct. 8, 2008, 09:00 PM
Haven't heard of this one but Lord's Orion
http://www.lordsorion.com/

I know Lord's Orion. He is a very nice horse but he is not going to do much about the 15.3hh mare. He is quite "Lordy" about the neck and was known for his nice temperament and jump rather than an exceptional trot.

Silly Mommy
Oct. 8, 2008, 09:11 PM
Thanks goodmorning.

I LOVE my Ariadus, I just wouldn't suggest him to this particular poster who already on the fence with Cunningham who I like quite a bit. I would breed a mare who didn't need help in the movement department to Ariadus ANY day!!!

My Ariadus-

http://wolfdenfarm.org/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/markelmira.jpg

Seekorion6811
Oct. 9, 2008, 04:18 PM
If I were you, I would look at Lotus T. He's big, has beautiful form over fences, is a lovely mover and stamps his legginess, topline and hindend on all of his babies. www.prairiepinesfarm.com.

Sakura Hill Farm
Oct. 9, 2008, 04:49 PM
We would like to second Lotus T. We bred our Alla"czar mare to him as a total last minute stop-gap measure--- it was August, the mare had been bred twice and had not taken with other stallions frozen twice and we were doing an inspection with the mare in heat...though the kindness of Andras we bred the mare right after her BWP inspection . can only say that the resulting filly is just lovely. She has already been sold so I feel able to refer you to our website, www.SakuraHillFarm.com (http://www.SakuraHillFarm.com) under "Young Horses", Innocence S. The added benefit is that Andras and his wife could not be nicer to work with. We would repeat this cross in a heartbeat.

risingstarfarm
Oct. 9, 2008, 05:02 PM
I'm a Lotus T fan as well. Lovely stallion that really stamps his get!

EquineLVR
Oct. 9, 2008, 11:04 PM
I'm a Lotus T fan as well. Lovely stallion that really stamps his get!

Totally agree. I love Lotus T.

Rendaivu
Oct. 10, 2008, 08:21 AM
Lotus T looks interesting, I have not seen him before. Anyone know his show record? I would love any pictures of offspring. Is there an online video for him?

VolteVT
Oct. 10, 2008, 09:06 AM
FWIW - I would suggest Concerto Grosso. I would certainly expect him to improve height, trot and jump. He himself was shown lightly in hunter breeding and under saddle here in VA with excellent results.

He is under-utilized (IMHO) but consistently produces very fancy youngsters with super minds. He is local to us so I've had the opportunity to see many of his foals and he has improved on the mare every single time.

risingstarfarm
Oct. 10, 2008, 09:05 PM
Lotus T looks interesting, I have not seen him before. Anyone know his show record? I would love any pictures of offspring. Is there an online video for him?

Contact Andras! He will send you video and photos. Lotus was 3rd (as a 3 year old, behind older stallions) at the 2004 100dt. He's since shown in hunters (and I believe jumpers) in Florida. I've watched a lot of Lotus hunter rounds on video and think he's really a lovely guy. I sold a Lotus T gelding last year - he's four and his owner absolutely adores him. Very attractive and talented - he was an easy foal and obviously one that will go far. Go to www.prairiepinesfarm.com for info.

fish
Oct. 10, 2008, 09:40 PM
Lotus T looks interesting, I have not seen him before. Anyone know his show record? I would love any pictures of offspring. Is there an online video for him?

You can search his show record on the USEF site. Do a horse results search for Lotus T, owner's last name SZIEBERTH.

sniplover
Oct. 10, 2008, 11:41 PM
I was just at the AHHA inspection here in Florida. Andras brought a lot of horses and 90% of the foals were Lotus T (will be labeled once I get my program back).. here's the set from the inspection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/24994333@N03/sets/72157607916213624/

can't re-
Oct. 11, 2008, 10:57 AM
My Lotus T yearling was Premium at her AHHA inspection. Zora is out of a Challenger mare that was a Grand Prix jumper and is a flat mover. I think Lotus is a good choice to produce a hunter with the right mare, though I'm not sure he would be the best choice for this mare.
Here are pics of Zora and one of her dam Chimere.