"digesibility" of oil? Other "nutrients" besides fat?

[pintopiaffe]

So, Cocosoya says it's "20% more digestible" than regular oil

And Rice Bran Oil is highly touted by one dealer as the 'best, fastest weight gain' at only 4oz/day.

Is an ounce of fat an ounce of fat? Is there REALLY a difference?

The price of Cocosoya is getting close enough to the price of plain old veggie oil (or, rather, vice versa) that I'm being enticed by it. I used it one summer, bought 5 gallons worth, and fed it at a lower rate (2-3oz/day vs. 4-8oz) alongside flax and BOSS. Had the most outrageous fishbelly iridescent shine on every beastie out there...

But I'm MORE interested in value per dollar, and nutrition, and weight gain for a hard keeper.

[Chief2]

I get my Cocosoya at Equine Affaire, so I can pay the regular rate for it without shipping charges. Saves a bundle. The horses love it.

[pintopiaffe]

:D It's almost enough to justify a trip down... but it's like 6 hrs, at 17mpg... I probably still won't save over shipping... :uhoh: :lol:

If you get more than 200lb (even just an oz over) from Uckele, shipping is less, so doing a big order 2 or 3x/year makes more sense. Shipping's a killer right now though.

Hell, the cost of oil is a killer. 3x the price it was this time last year. :(

[SSFLandon]

IF YOU CAN FIND COCO OIL ONLINE CHECK IT OUT. IT'S ALMOST THE SAME AS COCOSOYA BUT, DOES NOT SEPARATE. IT'S GREAT! I CAN'T REMEMBER WHO MAKES IS BUT, A LADY AT MY BARN IS A REP.

[Dianna]

I would love to see them back that statement up with research.

[andy825]

all of the pure coconut oil I have seen has been for human consumption, and far too expensive to feed to horses. Is there a livestock grade type that is more affordable?

Good to know I can get cocosoya at Equine Affair. I was thinking about trying it but paying for the shipping was holding me back!

ETA- I just requested a free sample from Uckele's website. I'm so happy that I can see if he'll eat it before I buy a gallon.

[Raleigh's Mom]

If you get more than 200lb (even just an oz over) from Uckele, shipping is less, so doing a big order 2 or 3x/year makes more sense. Shipping's a killer right now though.:(

I wonder what the shelf life of unopened Cocosoya is? I just ordered a gallon for my hardkeeper (he's also a picky eater, so I ordered the smallest quantity, just in case he doesn't like it), but the shipping almost doubled the cost!

[pintopiaffe]

FWIW, if you look around, you might find *closer* shipping at close to the same cost.

I THINK I can get Cocosoya cheaper from Big D's than I can from Uckele. I haven't actually been through the checkout, but Big D's is in the same UPS zone as me, or at least only 1 away.

Shelf life is pretty good unopened... if he does not eat it, you can probably find someone to buy the rest off you. I bought some fish oil that way, worked out for both of us. BUT--even my pickiest loffed Cocosoya...

I would love to see them back that statement up with research.
That's exactly what sparked my question! Is oil, is oil is oil??? or what?

Is Rice Bran oil really worth double canola or soy? I know the Omega 3's argument isn't researched much in horses, but I've seen *some*. Does that make it *worth* it?

:sigh:

[deltawave]

Unless there is other stuff in it, oil is pretty much oil, and fat calories are fat calories (9 calories per gram) no matter where the fat comes from. Again assuming it's pure fat, it doesn't matter what the source is. One is not any more or less "digestible" than another in terms of calories.

[Simkie]

I would love to see the data backing up Uckele's "20% more digestible" number. Who's going to email them and ask? :D

I wonder what the shelf life of unopened Cocosoya is? I just ordered a gallon for my hardkeeper (he's also a picky eater, so I ordered the smallest quantity, just in case he doesn't like it), but the shipping almost doubled the cost!

I buy 5 gallons at a time, break it out into 1 gallon containers and keep it in the fridge. The container I'm currently feeding from is at the barn, unrefrigerated but kept in a dark place.

I'm more than a little neurotic about my oil--I'm paying for all those omega 3s, damnit, and I don't want them to degrade before my horse gets them. If I could, I'd have it in the fridge at the barn, too.

However, there was a woman at the barn who kept her 5 gallon jug in the (hot sauna!) feed room and took awhile--at least 8 weeks--to go through it all, and her oil never smelled "off" and the horses never refused.

[Druid Acres]

Coconut oil is amazing stuff - I melt a teaspoon of the "human grade" kind into my oatmeal most mornings. Here's a little article (http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/coconut-oil-studies.html) if you're interested.

I don't order Cocosoya due to the cost of shipping, although I do use several Uckele products. I just melt a few tablespoons of my coconut oil into a jug of canola oil that I use for my IR/EPSM horse.

There is a 50/50 coconut/canola mixture called Pop-n-Lite (https://www.snappypopcorn.com/productcart/pc/1-Gallon-Pop-N-Lite-4p54.htm)that you can get from popcorn supply places. It seems to run about $15 a gallon; not sure what shipping would be, but it may be more of a bargain than cocosoya. The "popcorn grade" of coconut oil may well be worth looking into.

[3Spots]

Why are people using Cocosoya? For omega 3's (i use Horse Shine, I couldn't tell the Omega 3 content of Cocosoya)? For fat?

It would seem that a dry version would be much easier to use/store/prepare as compared to oil, but I know this product always gets rave reviews.

jan

[Simkie]

I use it for omega 3s and for calories.

My horse is not a fan of powdered/dried fat supplements. It's easier to get oil into her (right now, anyway. I'm sure one of these days she'll change her mind.) There is usually more bang for your buck with oil, as well--the dry fat supplement that Uckele carries is only 29% fat. I've tried prilled fat with my horse, and she's not a fan.

[deltawave]

Coconut oil is amazing stuff

As long as your cholesterol is OK, maybe. Or it might be considered "amazing" if you're a hungry cardiologist looking for new patients. :lol: Coconut oil is precisely what is fed to lab animals when they're on the so-called "atherogenic diet". Which means when the researchers want the animals (rabbits, usually) to develop clogged arteries, coconut oil is THE STUFF to feed them. Dreadful stuff for the cholesterol levels. But horses don't have to worry about that, thankfully. :)

The more I read from this Weston A Price foundation, the more scared I get. :eek: The former is strictly a personal opinion. To each his/her own. :) I'll stack the piles and piles of published data about coconut oil and lipids against their "data" any day, any time.

[wateryglen]

From what I vaguely remember from my organic chemistry class....and oil molecule is an oil molecule is an oil molecule. Sure other stuff can be tacked onto the molecule; like a flavoring or other molecule but liquid fat is liquid fat. All oils are created equal in the calorie delivering department but may certainly have different flavorings, colors or whatever. But our intestines and horses intestines can digest oil molecules the same not matter their name, brand, thickness, color, flavor & cost etc. It's the oil molecule that delivers the goods. So choose the one your horse eats best that costs the least! That's my motto! Cheaper CAN BE BETTER!!!

[Druid Acres]

As long as your cholesterol is OK, maybe. Or it might be considered "amazing" if you're a hungry cardiologist looking for new patients. :lol: Coconut oil is precisely what is fed to lab animals when they're on the so-called "atherogenic diet". Which means when the researchers want the animals (rabbits, usually) to develop clogged arteries, coconut oil is THE STUFF to feed them. Dreadful stuff for the cholesterol levels. But horses don't have to worry about that, thankfully. :)

The more I read from this Weston A Price foundation, the more scared I get. :eek: The former is strictly a personal opinion. To each his/her own. :) I'll stack the piles and piles of published data about coconut oil and lipids against their "data" any day, any time.

My understanding is that the lab animals were fed hydrogenated coconut oil, making it a TRANS fat, and we all know what that does. I've been a Weston Price follower for about five years now and haven't keeled over yet. I guess we'll just agree to disagree on this one. :)

[deltawave]

Point taken that things can be done to any food product to make it less healthy. :sigh:

I just keep trying to figure out what W. Price's agenda is. There must be one besides just a healthier world. :lol:

[Melyni]

Warning you are treading on my PhD thesis!! I'll keep it simple.

Caloriewise a fat is a fat is a fat, 9 calories a gram as DW said.
Fats (lipids) are digested by interaction with bile (from the liver) to form little spheres called chylomicra. The fats in the food have to separated out a bit in order to form the chylomicra, eg oils are easier since they are already liquid, trans fats are harder. degree of saturation of the molecule is important as well. But no bile, no chylomicra, no absorption into the GI tract wall.

The chylomicra go into the lymph system and travel around a bit before they get into the blood stream at the lymph nodes (where the lymph reenters the BS)..
Significance of this is that they do not go to the liver first as everything else does.
BUT after that there are some very significant differences in the metabolism and useability of the various lipid molecules.

Is cocosoya 20% more digestible than other fats? Yes, if the "other fats" are solid and fully saturated. No, if they are also oils and also unsaturated.

Omega 3s (ALA,EFA and DHA) DO NOT SURVIVE PROCESSING, plus are very oxygen sensitive and light sensitive, thus processed oils are low in Om3s even if they started out with a decent amount the very fact that they are processed reduces the OM3s. If they are stored in the presence of oxygen and light (clear bottles without airtight seals, kept at room temperatures) the OM3s will further decrease over time. Don't plan on finding much in rice bran or rice bran oil or supermarket corn oil.

DHA, ALA And EFA are best fed in their original form if possible, eg as flax seed or algae or oil seed of some kind.

Clear as mud right?

Yours
MW

[Skip's Rider]

Coconut oil is highly saturated even without hydrogenation.

Most oils are 88 - 95 % digestible by the horse. So, what's the supposed extra 20% going to get you? Not much!

[Houdini1220]

I remember reading somewhere that unrefined organic extra virgin coconut oil is a good anti-viral and anti-bacterial....which (if true) would make it a better choice to feed for other reasons. Thoughts? (I'm not saying I agree with this per say as I do not know how true the above statement is)....I feel like I read it off of the Nutiva website.

[deltawave]

I'd be pretty suspicious of those claims instinctively. And my next thought would be "why is something with natural antibacterial properties necessarily better?" Bacteria are our friends much more than they're our enemies. :)