fence walker(trotter)...behaviorists please!

[columbus]

I am helping a friend with a Warmblood cross who is turning out to be a fence pacer. I am amazed at how fast she digs a trench in my sand. My Irish Draughts watch her like a Ping Pong match. I brought in a round chunk of yearling PonyCob who is trying very hard to get her to notice PonyCob is there. On one hand it is facinating to watch but I have watched her not eat any hay for 24 hours and didn't even "find" the water tank 25 feet away. I have taken her buckets of water and she is desperately thirsty and drinks but can't break her trance for long enough to quit pacing. I have placed hay along her course and tomorrow I am considering putting a horse in who will interfer more with her. What is the current state of thought on this habit and has anyone tried the shock collars for this habit or others. She is a very talented mare and could have a life if I can't find a way to break the behavior sooner. Very interesting. PatO

[equinelaw]

I have tried shock collars and didn't like them. Most horses will stop fence walking after they settle in. How long they can take varies by the individual.

From what you are describing she was settled in somewhere before you got her or you would not have her now. Do you know what she wants? Does she want back in a stall?

This is what is called an equine sterotypy and sometimes they are so ingrained changing the envronment makes no difference. Some times changing the environment helps.

She is not hungry or lonely or anything in partitclar, she is just addicted to the behavior itself. Is there any way to get rid of the fence? Like letting her have a run-in to her stall or putting her in a small herd in a huge field?

Have you tried a comerciil tryptophan supplement? They can help with stereotypies on some cases.

Some stereptypies are triggered by stress--liek moving to a new farm or losing an old friend. In time they stop or slow down. Sometimes they don't, but this mare would be very skinny if she always did this everywhere, no?

How long has she been doing this? It will always be a part of her make up and a reaction to change or stress, but for most horses it fades as they settle in.

[columbus]

She has a history of this type of behavior. She has always been one to pace at times of stress. She is bottom of the pecking order and has a terrrible time keeping weight on as she puts pacing over eating. This is why I thought to offer my place as I have more of a regular herd situation and with youngsters there is food out all the time. The owner has easy keeping Arabians and they have eating over anything as a priority. The mare was at the trainer and paced frantically for a month before finally accepting the routine. He tried stalling her and she just tore up the footing in the stall. She did very well in training though. I am hoping to get her aware of the new world sooner than a month. An obstacle is that my farm is adjacent to her home farm. The fence is the farm fences(hers and mine) Her old mates are less than 10 feet away...her new mates are about the same distance...all watching her...pace. It will be interesting to see how PonyCob does with her today...I am leaving work in a minute. The poor girl is very un appreciated at home and I guess she is my version of a rescue(one I can send home)...see if I can find her some peace so she can get some groceries and enjoy life a bit...take some deep breaths. Thanks all. PatO

[goeslikestink]

watch the younsters dont copy said horse,

anyways its all new rto her and she will proabably take some time before she settles down

the quickiest way i have found to settle horses down is to stick to riding them if the horse is ridable ie broken if not then work it

as you know , rountine is important ok, what i mean and hopefully you will get is that

when people move neds the worse thing they do is wait----

we all know that the new enviroment ( doesnt matter if you next door its new )
has new freinds , new fields, new people, new feeding arrnagments, new this new that but
the one thing that stays more or less the same is the working side of things

owners work they have a 9-5 job, thinking of this mos people ride before or after or when they on holiday during the day but the time scale of wehn they ride stays the same

for yards that have horses and work horses they have a rountine and a time when they exercise all the neds
time scale work scale -- are you with me,

this time scale hardly ever changes -- this is the foundation of the horse as horse love to work so if you keep up the work side of things the hroses actually settle quicker

it helps to keep there mind focused-

for exsample-- you have a neddy and you want to go to a show-- thats all new stuff everytime you go------- but the work of the horse isnt so much

so if the horse is new dont leave it work it- be ground work and lunge linnig ro ridden work the horse give the horse soemthing to focus on in its mind

bring it in more often and do things with it -- dont over feed the horse as in to much engery food stuffs as this to can play on ahorses mind if it hasnt got enough work to compensate itself
some horses go hot, buck, blow, rear nap------ or pace the fence line moreso

so cut the grian -- feed ab lib hay--- dont put lots of hay on fence line for her in order for her to stop------ doesnt work
feed at regualar intervals and bring the horse in-

feed accroding to workload- by cutting the grian out for two weeks will get it out of her system and you can then start of again by trial and error as the horse will calm down
so if the horse goes welll fine, if not enough you add if the horse is to much you take it away and reduce the intake of feedstuffs till you have a happy meduim of one of control

[goeslikestink]

and by a small boys water pistol-- say no and squirk dont chase her or wave your arms i the air at her to stop or hit her,

really its down to working the horse in giving it something to do- to change its mind thats its not a good idea to fence walk or pace, its a vice but one that can be broken as its a habit that she been allowed to do and get away with for a long time

you could also try moving her to another part of your yard, whereby she cant see her old mates
or where perhaps its queiter as some horses dont like bissy bissy some do some dont
or move her to a bissier part of the yard - horse are social animals and some want to be in the thcik of things and some dont-- thats to include where her stable is situated aswell, some like open stables some dont dim stables can be more stressful than a well lite one to small a stable will also bring o n stress you have to look at what she is and the type of stable she in wether it s suits her needs
so the horse is comfy at the end of the day then they dont and wont tend to panic

[EventerAJ]

Have you tried tying her up? At least for an hour or so, with water and food? This may help her take a break.

In individual turnout, my mare goes through occasional pacing fits. It's like a switch flips, and she will run herself to the ground if I don't stop it (the longest I could bear to watch was 3 hrs straight trotting). But if I tie her to the "post of knowledge" she quiets down, I distract her with some food, and 10 minutes later she is grazing relaxed by herself.

If the horse has difficulty tying, use a Blocker tie ring. I used to think they were silly, overpriced gadgets... but I've cured 5 "anti-tyers" with one. :) Now the herd gets tied at feeding time, and will stand tied as long as necessary for the weakling to eat. (Or longer, if I accidentally forget them...! sorry ponies)

[mhtokay]

I bought one at a sale. I tried everything suggested here. I hated it and got rid of her.

[BuddyRoo]

We've got a trench digger too.

She's a nice mare. But it doesn't take much to get her stressing and pacing.

Remove a horse from the "herd"? Pacing.
Time to come in? Pacing.
Bugs? Pacing
Rain? Pacing
Bored? Pacing


About the only thing that really keeps her calm is having my very dominant mare out with her. We can remove all other horses but that one and she's fine. But when my mare gets taken out to work? It's over.

I think that these horses often REALLY lack confidence. The pacing to me is a self-soothing thing. Kind of like a little kid sucking their thumb in a stressful situation.

Some things that *might* help.

Put old bales of hay down along the fenceline--perpendicular to it. See you can get her off the fence and with something in the way. Try tying and feeding from a hay net for a few hours a day. If you have a roundpen, some horses do better in smaller spaces where there is no straight line to pace. Had a few OTTB's who just plain could NOT handle a big space...they needed something more confined but where they could still SEE other horses.

Also...a mild sedative of some sort may be beneficial...I'd talk to your vet.

But if there's a been there done that dominant horse who is dominant but NOT MEAN, that may help her relax too.

How often is she being worked? What is she being fed? Reducing sugar and really keeping her in good work might ease this as well.

[BornToRide]

What do you feed her besides the hay? Any grain, treats with molasses, etc? If so, I would remove ALL of it and only feed her hay, with minerals and vitamins as needed (non-grain based).

A diet high in sugars and starches can cause something like this...this article nbelow confirms it and it is not only limited to young horses I know from experience!

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080815170625.htm

[Sakura]

My stallion goes through this every spring... I just tolerate it because I know it won't last more than a few weeks... Putting hay in his path only results in paced-on-wasted-hay... However, he does much better if I pasture his harem in the field next to his, it is the only time he will settle down and graze.

Do you suppose this mare would do better if she were pastured with more than one buddy? Does she take an interest in pasture toys? Would it be possible to break up the monotony with a 30 minute hand grazing session.... and a 45 minute grooming session a few hours later (kind of implement a daily routine). I'd be hesitant about using a shock collar... it may end up making her even more unsettled...

[TrueColours]

well - my solution? Tell her that she is now an "outside horse" and the paddock is her new "stall" and she wont pace because she has no where to go BUT her paddock!

is that possible where you are?

I had a stallion several years ago and was in a boarding situation at the time so was limited in what I could suggest or try with him. His limit for being turned out was 5-20 minutes - and then the pacing and the running and the sweating and the lathering up would start and by 30-40 minutes he was covered in white lather if you missed bringing him in, the flies were swarming him and you now needed to bathe him and hand walk him for the next hour and then when you did put him in his stall he was miserable and angry as he was the only one inside and he'd stand and kick the walls and pace around and around in his stall and totally decimate the bedding, knock over water buckets, get sweated up again. It was well and truly awful

I sold him to a friend of mine who put up with this crap for about 2 days and then he decided that he was going to be an "outside horse"

It took 3 days of screaming, pacing, getting lathered up, refusing to eat and drink before he looked out and saw him calmly standing there at the round bale and eating, sauntering over to take a drink and then going to snooze in the sun once again before the habit was broken and now he can leave him out all day, bring him in, turn him out for an hour or all day and it doesnt matter any more to him. he isnt anticipating "coming in" any more

Two of my mares, 4 days ago, got pissed beyond belief that I was leaving them to last to come in (and they are ALWAYS last to come in, so no change of routine for them at all!) and they started screaming and galloping the paddocks flat out like a herd of wild tigers were after them. I took one look at them, told them they had lost their dinner privileges that night and were staying out with more hay to keep them company and that was it. Around 8:00 they clued in to the fact that they really were out for the night and settled down and started to eat instead of pacing and for the last 4 nights are waiting quietly and patiently at the gate (as they did before) for their turn to come in

Good luck - its maddening and frustrating and it makes you want to scream at times!

[Watermark Farm]

I have one of these. He doesn't do it when turned out in a group, but he's aggressive in a group, so I can't put him in the herd. I have turned him out with a dominant alpha mare, and the fence pacing has stopped.

I've had a few retirees who came here and fence paced for a long time. Horrible. Always in every case, they stopped eventually once I transitioned them to 24/7 group turnout.

It's a "disease of confinement" that man has created, like weaving, etc. Sad to see, but it can be changed with the right management.