Feeding Dilemma of a 2 year old

[Personal Champ]

I'm looking for some wisdom, here. I've read the threads on RBs, oats, complete feeds and I'm still lost.

I have a 2 1/2 year old Appendix mare. She looks great when she's not in a growth spurt, but I just can't quite cover her ribs while she's in one. She may look really good 2 weeks out of a month, but the other 2 she looks ribby. Coat is good, she's got great feet, personality is wonderful, she's just not as consistently perfect weight-wise as I would like.

She is currently on 2 pounds of Strategy twice daily, and I'm experimenting with 3 dry quarts of alfalfa cubes and 2 dry quarts of Beep once a day. She gets MSM and Equipride, but recently ran out of Equipride and am putting off buying more until I figure out the feeding thing.

I can do alfalfa, I can do flax, I can do oats. I have easy access to Southern States products.

What should I be doing for this mare?

Oh, and she's currently a touch over 16 hands at the wither, a touch higher in the rear, with an average frame. She should mature to 16.2 or so, going by her full sister's size.

TIA

ETA: She has free choice grass hay 24/7 - rounds in the field, and the rare occasion she's in, squares in the stall.

[Sanity Rules]

Oy. We always fed our youngsters like yours 3 pounds of Strategy twice daily, all they can eat hay, made sure they had salt licks in their stalls (white ones, not the mineral ones), and if they still needed weight we supplemented with a cup of Purina Athlete once a day. If they still needed weight, we had the vet come out to look at teeth, etc.

Be careful feeding dry beet pulp ... had a horse choke on it in the past! I would also extend that warning to dry alfalfa cubes.

[Personal Champ]

She's had her teeth checked, and has a white lick.

The Beep and Alfalfa are soaked, I was just giving the dry measurements of each. Sorry!

[Sanity Rules]

She's had her teeth checked, and has a white lick.

The Beep and Alfalfa are soaked, I was just giving the dry measurements of each. Sorry!

:D

[Ride'emCO]

Maybe switch to a higher fat feed? I used Mccauley's Top Breeder for my youngster from age 1-4. It kept him shiny and in very good weight, and I fed VERY little. Switched to Strategy at age 4 because he needed more calories from carbs and less from fat - he was exceptionally "laid back". :lol:

The top Breeder has Beet Pulp, Rice Bran and Flax, and contains the same % of protein as Strategy - 14%. I loved it for my guy, who is a VERY refined Oldenburg, 1/4 TB.

http://www.feedhorses.com/feeds/specialapplication/TopBreeder.cfm

Because I fed so little, I added a MultiVit with probios, and Rice Bran Oil (though the RBO was probably unnecessary).

I wish I had a pic on this computer of him as a 2 year old, so you could compare his body type to your mare...

[Empressive Award]

I am going through the same thing you are with my 2 year old TB, with the exception that I was worried that her malnutrition as a baby when she was abandoned had stunted her growth.

I've fed her every combination of things I could think of to put weight on and she still looked ribby. I posted several times on her about her weight and the suggestion was alwasy to try beet pulp and alfalfa.

I tried, and personally I saw no difference in their affect on her body after over a month of feeding. I then came across the threads about Purina VS. TC vs other name brand and the supplements they manufactored.

Because I have always loved TC and their quality of products, I gave the TC Growth and 30% supplement a chance, and I fed according to the chart on the bag and I have to tell you I could not be more happy with the results! She has a glowing coat, has grown 3 inches in the last month, is no longer ribby, and is starting to fill in.. She actually looks like a horse now and not an alien.

I have to say that I enjoy the simplicity in her feeding program... I dont have to measure out all these supplements and feeds and soak them, etc etc. Maybe you should consider giving TC a shot. It seems like a lot to be giving your girl, Strategy, alfalfa, and beet pulp daily and she's only 2. If she's going to or has become a hard keeper, is is because of your feeding program and maybe you're missing something or because she really has other issues with her weight that make her a hard keeper?

[betsyk]

I thought they were supposed to be a little ribby, or at least on the lean side, to guard against joint and bone issues? My 2-y-o Anglo Arab just has some covering over his ribs but less than my adult horses; no bones sticking out, still looks babyish, not growing terribly fast. We still have pasture so he gets all the grass he can eat 24/7, a flake of alfalfa, maybe 2 lbs oat/corn mix, and ration balancer. He's 15.1 and 850 lb.

[Empressive Award]

I've never heard of keeping a horse "lean" to guard against joint damage. I wouldnt say my girl is fat either. You can feel her ribs just under her skin and a thin layer of fat, but they are not blaringly obvious anymore. Prior to this month, she was a "runt" compared to other horses her age, even the vet thought she might be stunted. Turns out she just needed the right combo of vitamins and minerals to support her fat and protein intake. The vet agrees they she is going thru a healthy growth spurt and as long as she is receiving proper nutrition and isnt in work (which she isnt), she should have no bone or joint issues.

Maybe the best bet is to ask the vet. It oculd be a feeding issue, it could be a teeth issue, it could be a breed thing. Some breeds take longer to grow and fill out and will have the "lean" look for the first 4 years of their life before they start to look mature.

In my case simplicity in the feeding program was what my girl needed to get on the right path. Before, I thought I would have to give her 2 plus years to grow enough to support a career under saddle, and now the vet thinks that she will be able to start her undersaddle career in the spring as long as she maintains healthy body weight and growth.

I'm no expert, ask your vet. I just thought I'd share my experience.

[Personal Champ]

EA, how much TC growth and 30% are you feeding yours?

I don't think she'll be a hard keeper because when she's stable in the growth stages see looks great - just when she grows up she thins out. And I don't want her FAT, just not ribby looking.

[Hampton Bay]

I have a 2-yo Arab who is about 15h and 800lb right now, and I have had him for about a year. He's grown about 4" since I bought him, and has had several growth spurts, then levels back out.

Every time he has gone thru a growth spurt, he has gotten a bit thin. Once he stops growing for a bit, he plumps back up. It did take him until he was a full 2 years in May to really start to look good, but he had some major skin issues as a yearling and the vet thinks that because of those issues, he just took a while to really start to look good. Almost like he was malnourished a bit because his body was putting all its resources to fighting the skin issues.

For him, free-choice hay or 24/7 pasture seems to help the most. He improved a lot when the BO started turning him out 24/7, even though our grass is far from lush down here. Now he gets whatever grass he can find, just a tiny bit of a ration balancer with a vitamin/mineral supplement, and a handful of alfalfa cubes (just to keep him busy long enough to let my weanling filly finish her handful of feed). He is in a really good weight now, but last month when he was growing a bit he thinned out some.

I really think it's normal for them to do that, and as long as they are getting good nutrition they should be just fine. 2lb of Strategy does not seem like enough to meet her vitamin/mineral needs though, so you may want to add a supplement for that. I feed Manna Pro's Sho-Glow and really like it. But I have mine at home now too, so I have the freedom to leave them out 24/7 so that the majority of their diet is grass (hay in winter) and I can just give them enough feed to get the Sho-Glow into them.

[3Spots]

Among the warmblood breeds I think the vets frequently recommend to keep them ribby rather than risk OCD.

My 2.5yo only gets hay and maybe 4x a week gets a "treat" of vitamins, horseshine and beet pulp. He is a little ribby, also a tad over 16h and expected to be 16.2hish. He also gets ribbier when in a growth spurt.

Of course, he is in CA and not getting full turnout, so that might explain why he doesn't need 4-6 lbs of a fortified grain supplement!

jan

[Equibrit]

Dump all the mix and match stuff and feed Triple Crown Complete.

Follow the KISS principle!

[Personal Champ]

Well it seems that others' babies get ribby during growth, too, so I don't feel so bad now. I've never had a horse that had not finished growing before I bought it before!

Since she does have free choice grass/hay and 24/7 turnout, and since some ribbyness seems to be okay, would she be better off on a ration balancer than a grain? She doesn't work at all.

[3Spots]

Personal Champ,

I'd go for a ration balancer rather than grain. When I bought my guy as a yearling, he was on pasture and a handful of grain w/vitamins, and my vet recommended we keep that up. No grain/sweet feed except to hide the vitamins. I kept him out 24/7 until a couple months ago, and I am just now considering a ration balancer for him as he is starting to learn about long-lining and has been ponied about on trail and getting more activity.

The Macauley's site mentioned above has a nice-looking ration balancer, M30. I am use Farrier's Formula Work Plus for my riding mare, and it would be suitable for my youngster as well. I have access to TC30%, but it seems to have less vitamin mix than FF or that M30. I wish we could get all the feed brands that everyone else seems to have!

As long as they have access to all the hay they want, I wouldn't be too worried about ribbiness. Especially since your girl looks fine when she's not growing. If I have to add more, my first thought would also be soaked beet pulp and alfalfa pellets and then oats.

jan

[Empressive Award]

In response to the earlier question aboiut what I feed, here's the answer:

I feed approximately 3 lbs now of TC Growth, 1.5 lbs of TC 30%, 4 oz of Biotin and 2 TBS of Canola oil. The oil does wonders for her coat, acts as extra fat, lubricates the digestive tract, supposedly aides in digestion and coats the grain so the Biotin sticks to it and not the bucket. She maybe gets this mixture every other day. If I fed her every day, she would be fat, but I'm trying to moderate her fat level since she isnt in work. When she goes to training in spring we will up her grain to 2lbs 2x a day every day to support her energy levels.

Along with the grain she is on 24/7 turnout of a beautiful grass field of 25 acres with 3 other geldings. She is in excellant healht and has lost her ribby look, grown at least 4 inches in the last 3 months since moving to this new barn, and the vet is not at all worried about her growth spurt or fears that she will have joint an bone issues.

And for people who say Biotin doesnt do jack for a horse... I am now a believer in it. My girl was so sun bleached and her coat was so fried from being outside and not brought in by the BM like she was supposed to that her hairs began to split and curl. He back had the texture of a brillo pad. After 1 month of Biotin 100 in her grain, her dead coat had shed and a beauitful dark, shiny soft coat had grown in. She looks like a different horse. Mind you this was in the middle of summer, and she has not bleached out at all since the new hair grew in.

I'll try posting pictures of the before and after.

I love what TC does for a horse when its a balanced diet.

[shakeytails]

All babies (foals, calves, puppies, etc.) get a bit ribby during growth spurts. They're not mature animals, their bodies are changing rapidly. If they get too thin, feed them more. When they're all grown up then you can worry about a consistant weight. I don't even know how much feed (in pounds) any of my horses are getting. If they look like they might be losing weight, I feed more. If they're getting chubby, I cut back. It's really a simple concept that tends to get overlooked for some reason.

[Hampton Bay]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE M30 by McCauley! I so wish I could get that down here. My mare looked downright amazing after a month on just a couple cups of that stuff.

I do the same thing shakeytails does. The two young ones get a vitamin/mineral supplement (Sho-Glow) to meet their vitamin/mineral needs, a bit of lysine, and then grass/hay and a very small amount of alfalfa cubes. If they are looking a bit thin, I give them a bit more alfalfa and hay. If they are a bit chubby, the alfalfa gets cut out. My 2-yo looks great right now. The filly is growing a bit so she is a touch ribby. She gets some extra alfalfa.

It really is that simple. Make sure the vitamin/mineral needs are met, and then add more hay/grain if needed.

[Personal Champ]

I will look into the ration balancers, then.

EA, I would be really interested in seeing those before and afters.

[City Ponies]

OK now I feel like I neglect my youngsters!!

IMO - they are supposed to be ribby during growth spurts and I would not alter feed rations during them as you just end up giving them a yo-yo diet. Let her be ribby but supplement her with for free choice alfafa hay (not cubes) and/or oil.

When my guys were younger they got Blue Seal Victory, 10% protein, 16% fat because we had joint issues with both of them til end of yearling year so we decided to take it slow on growing!

After yearling year we switched to Sport Formula which is 11%/12%, which both my mare and now 3 yr old get. However, since my 3 yr old has been on it since he was 1, he has reduced from 3 lbs a day to now 3/4 of a lb a day. He is as fat as can be on free choice grass and timothly/orchard mix 4x a day. The do not get any additional supplements but do get warm bran mash and soaked alfafa in the winter for digestion.

An QH Appendix is a pretty hardy breed and should be realitively easy keeper even when young. I would stop worrying, stay with the MSM and Strategy and just get through the growth spurts for another few months.

I don't see a reason to really supplement a good feeding program unless there is deficiency in nutrients from forage or they have special needs that require it. IMO less is more if you keep tract of the quality of what you are feeding.

[ladipus]

i feed 3#/day Progressive Nutritions ProAdvantage Hi-fat formula to my 3 1/2yr old wb that needs some weight/covering of his ribs along w/2#'s/day plain soaked beetpulp, 1#/day Buckeye Ultimate finish for added calories,and fastrack which is a probiotic that helps w/ digestion, plus a mixture of free choice alfalfa,and timothy/orch squares while inside,and pasture and a mixed hay round bale when turned out and he's starting to put on the weight.
Also having his teeth done every six months has helped alot,along w/ doing a panacur power pack,and i also have him on strongid c2x daily dewormer,and paste deworm every 6 months w/ equimax

[thelonestarcarriage]

I feed purina strategy as well. I was mixing it with athlete too and weight builder supplement. If you want a cheaper way of putting on weight start mixing vegetable oil in the feed. 2 c for every thousand pounds of horse per day. It has worked wonders for my smaller horses and even my draft horse. Good luck.

[Personal Champ]

Unfortunately I don't have access to alfalfa hay, only cubes.

Since everyone else thinks that a slight ribbiness is okay, I guess I'll just stick to what I'm doing and see how it goes. She looked fabulous yesterday - perfect weight, even wither and croup. Too bad it will all go to hell in a few weeks when she grows again!

[JB]

Uhhh, ok, I give - joy, what's the deal? You've bumped old thread after old thread, with posts making it sound like you were the OP, yet all these threads have very different original starters, and some of your replies don't make sense :confused:

[Seal Harbor]

Come on JB are you not going to watch the free stream Malaysia vs Indonesia football online?? :lol::lol::lol:

A new form of SPAM!!

[JB]

Oh dang Seal, you're right! :lol:

fwiw, I've reported the poster, so hopefully all these posts will be removed and we can carry on LOL

[naturallyluvhorses]

Hello! I would love to weigh in on your feed question.

I personally love ration balancers and recommend them to friends often. But, I'd like to spread some light on the subject. Ration Balancers are awesome when used per the feeding directions. (Some are much better than others.) The provide all the nutrient requirements for your horse, protein, vitamins, minerals, etc. however, they are made to be low in calories. Some horses, especially TB types generally need more calories then a Ration Balancer provide.....especially when growing or working! As several people have stated, you may not want your mare to be too overweight while still growing. From my research it is best for them to just have a very slight covering over their ribs....but that is somewhat of a personal preference.

I've done allot of product comparisons and I'd highly recommend Tribute Equine Nutrition products. They are a high quality and not too pricey. I think I read you are from PA, and I believe their products are available there.

The Essential K is their ration balancer and then I often use Kalm Ultra along with it for added calories. Kalm Ultra is a high fat, high fiber feed so its a good way to calories safely and its already got plenty of beet pulp to simplify your feeding!

Beet pulp is a great form of digestible fiber, but not high in calories. It will likely not aid in weight gain unless you are feeding a poor quality hay.

One other little known fact: Vets get NO equine nutrition training in vet school. Unless they take the time on their own to get further education, they really aren't the best source for feed advice.

I hope you found this info helpful! Have a very Merry Christmas!!