Powerpac worming question

[BelladonnaLily]

Getting ready to order powerpacs and I have a question. In the past, I have always used Safeguard instead of Panacur because I've always managed to get it a little cheaper. This year I'm trying to further economize and I'm wondering I can make 5 powerpacs work for 6 animals.

One animal is an approx 300lb. 12h small pony. Then I have 3 large ponies. One is pushing the limit so she'll definitely get the whole thing along with the 2 horses, but the other 2 are probably in the range of 700-800 lbs. One slightly less, one slightly more (1/2 QH). Can I share a little of theirs with the small pony? How would you work this? The double tubes say to treat up to 1100 lbs.

[JB]

I wasn't sure what "share a little of theirs" meant :confused: Don't underdose by any means.

If you go with liquid fenbendazole from www.agri-med.com you can economize even further.
http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/product/SFEGRD125

4.6mL/100lb That's 14mL for the 300lb, 37mL for the 800lb, 46mL for a 1000lb horse, etc. That's the "double dose" for each day (single dose is 2.3mL/100lb).

By doing that calculation to see how much each animal needs for the 5 days total (ie the 300lb pony needs 14*5=70mL total) you can figure out how many mL TOTAL of liquid fen you need, and then can order enough bottles to get that. For the above 3 horses, you're at 485 total mL, which is 4 bottles of the 125mL liquid. That's $62 (+shipping). You can do the rest of the math :)

[BelladonnaLily]

Well, for most of mine, I have always given the full dose. My 2 horses and lg pony mare are both 1,000+ lbs. Last year when I powerpac'ed my yearling, she was roughly 750 lbs and the vet advised me to give the full tubes, so I have always done the same with my tanky large pony gelding. I've never powerpac'ed a small pony (or the small lg. pony we have this year). As I've always double dosed Strongid in the spring, and been told some triple dose, I've never worried so much about that. I usually give the small pony womer for about 400 lbs when doing ivermectin, etc.

I will look into the liquid...never done that before. Do you just top dress feed? I have a couple hard to worm ponies so I'm not sure I want to syringe liquid..I feel certain we'll waste and make a mess.

I never really worried so much about overdosing the common wormers but thanks for the heads up...I'll do the math. I guess this was really a silly question now that I read it. Too early...

[JB]

Yes, top dress the liquid - doesn't seem to taste at all. If you run into trouble the first day, add whatever flavoring you need to.

Here's a decent way to calculate the weight more accurately than a tape
http://www.gaitedhorses.net/Articles/horseweight.html

It's basically ( (heartgirth x heartgirth x length ) / 300 ) + 50

[BelladonnaLily]

Thanks JB for not making fun of me! I have alot of blonde moments before my morning coffee. That helps alot! :)

[myhorsefaith]

This is going to sound stupid- but why don't more people know about this, and take advantage of the liquid form? Seems like a no-brainer to me being that it is cheaper and easier. Why isn't it marketed for horses in this form? I know there are dewormers out there that are, but why not liquid fenbendazole?

[Simkie]

This is going to sound stupid- but why don't more people know about this, and take advantage of the liquid form? Seems like a no-brainer to me being that it is cheaper and easier. Why isn't it marketed for horses in this form? I know there are dewormers out there that are, but why not liquid fenbendazole?

Why would it be? Both Intervet (Panacur) and Durvet (Safeguard) make a BOATLOAD of money on their "power pack" products.

Cattle people are not willing to spend nearly the money that we are. If either company priced their cattle wormer at the same level as their horse wormer, they would not sell any cattle wormer.

It's up to us to be savvy consumers and research all options.

[JB]

This is going to sound stupid- but why don't more people know about this, and take advantage of the liquid form? Seems like a no-brainer to me being that it is cheaper and easier. Why isn't it marketed for horses in this form? I know there are dewormers out there that are, but why not liquid fenbendazole?

Because the average owner, and heck, the average BM/BO, doesn't usually have a clue as to what chemicals they are actually using. They know they use Equimax, or Panacur, or Safeguard, they by the things labeled for horses and follow (mostly) the directions on the label. They have no idea that their Safeguard is a 10% fenbendazole paste, therefore have no hope of realizing an alternative when they see it.

[shawneeAcres]

The same thing applies to other products for hroses/cattle. go to Tractor Supply and buy the probios paste for horses a tube will cost you about the same as a tube for cattle which is THREE TIMES the amount for horses! Same exact product but you get three times as much for about the same cost. Well worth reseraching when buying products to see if active ingredients and % are the same across different types of animal products.

[kelser01]

Sorry for the dumb question but I cant seem to find a label of both online. Would
http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_34539_-1______14602|14625|34539?listingPage=true&Special=false
also work for horses? I just see that it is available at Tractor Supply so I could just pick it up. Thanks!

[kelser01]

Good gravy! Never mind :) Ok, last question I promise! How about the goat one? I really wish TSC would put more info on their products online!

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?mpe_id=12075&cm_cr=No+Campaign-_-Web+Activity-_-Cross+Sell+Up+Sell-_-ProductDetail_Espot1-_-Safeguard+Goat+Wormer&catalogId=10001&productId=34642&evtype=CpgnClick&intv_id=15001&langId=-1&storeId=10551&ddkey=http:CategoryDisplay

[Simkie]

Sorry, my math was wrong. To use the pellets, you would have to feed about 2.5 pounds of the 0.5% pellets per day per 1200 lbs of horse to powerpac.

[myhorsefaith]

Well, I certainly learned that I can be saving a boatload of cash :) Thank you!

Has anyone used this liquid stuff and mixed it in their feed? Did they eat it all up?

Thanks!

[onthebit]

I have used the liquid. I was nervous b/c a couple of the retirees boarded here tend to strongly object to changes in feed but to my amazement they ate their feed plus their top-dressed liquid wormer with no complaints.

[JB]

Good gravy! Never mind :) Ok, last question I promise! How about the goat one? I really wish TSC would put more info on their products online!

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?mpe_id=12075&cm_cr=No+Campaign-_-Web+Activity-_-Cross+Sell+Up+Sell-_-ProductDetail_Espot1-_-Safeguard+Goat+Wormer&catalogId=10001&productId=34642&evtype=CpgnClick&intv_id=15001&langId=-1&storeId=10551&ddkey=http:CategoryDisplay

Given that it's
Contains 10% Fenbendazole for the removal and control of stomach worms in goats. Dosage is 2.3 ml per 100 lbs. of body weight.
Yes, it's the same thing. 10% fenbendazole. Just remember the "power pack" is double dosing for 5 days - 4.6mL/100lb for each of 5 days.

FWIW, it's cheaper at agri-med, though you'd have to figure in shipping to see if overall it's cheaper. I just ordered 5 of the 125mL bottles, and shipping was a bit under $9, but the product itself was, I think, $15.50. That does make the agri-med product a little more per bottle, assuming the TSC bottle is also 125mL, which I cannot tell from their site.

I did try to syringe the stuff in the first day. Yeah, that didn't work well :rolleyes: They ate it without hesitation in their food.

[BeastieSlave]

Has anyone used this liquid stuff and mixed it in their feed? Did they eat it all up?


Yes and yes :yes: This is one of the things that makes me feel so smart - Thanks COTH!

[chicamuxen1]

If you want to save money then buy the really big tubes made for cattle that you use with a caulking gun. the directions for how much per weight is on the tube, cattle and horses are the same. Just insert the really big tip into the pony/horse mouth and count the clicks. Big time savings and you know you are getting the entire dose into the horse.

chicamuxen

[myhorsefaith]

Dang, days like these when I find awesome info, I realize how stupid I've been (and will continue to be) for so long. :lol:

Thanks for the info. Its liquid febenzadole from here on out!

[kelser01]

Anyone know what kind of a shelf life the large tubes have after they are opened?

[gabz]

You can re-use the paste dewormer tubes if you buy in bulk. Or simply mix the dewormer with some oats/ grain / pellets and molasses.

I've saved some Ivercare dewormer tubes. They have the extra large handle... but for the fendbendazoles you'll need the LARGE dewormer paste tubes (the fat ones).

I keep several around in case I need to "inject" crushed bute & peppermints or something else.

[halo]

So whats the difference between the Safeguard suspension 125 ml. and the Safeguard suspension 125 ml. for Goats, other than the Goat wormer is cheaper?

http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/product/SFEGRD125A

[Equibrit]

http://www.nelsonwholesale.com/Nelson_Wholesale_Livestock/Cattle/Cattle_Wormer.html

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e079c9-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

http://www.cattlestore.com/pc-368-130-safe-guard-196-pellets.aspx

1# Safeguard Pellets for Cattle
Pellets may be top dressed on feed or blended with the ground feed. Fenbenzadole removes lungworms, stomach worms, intestinal worms, bankrupt worms and nodular worms in cattle. Feed at the rate of 1 lb. of pellets per 1000 lbs of body weight for one feeding. 10# bag shown. ANY ITEM THAT NEEDS TO BE KEPT COOL/COLD WILL BE SHIPPED VIA "2ND DAY AIR" AND EXTRA CHARGES WILL APPLY. GOT TO BE A TYPO!
HOEPEL $ 7.00
http://www.westernranchsupply.com/body.php3?cat_id=1&sub_id=5

[gabz]

Be cautious about transferring goat dosages for horses.
I'm not sure about all products - but goats need higher doses for SOME vaccinations than horses and I'm not sure how that transfers.

So - be sure to do your math correctly and follow vet instructions when using a product labeled for another animal. Particularly ruminants versus non-ruminants.

I had a vet try to figure out how much HORSE paste dewormer to use on my goats. I wasn't very confident in her math and computed it myself. Now I just use the pellets for them. It's MUCH easier.

[JB]

Be cautious about transferring goat dosages for horses.
I'm not sure about all products - but goats need higher doses for SOME vaccinations than horses and I'm not sure how that transfers.

So - be sure to do your math correctly and follow vet instructions when using a product labeled for another animal. Particularly ruminants versus non-ruminants.

If it's all a 10% fen mix, at 2.3 or 4.6mL/100lb, that's the same as a horse product, unless there's something else involved that's not obvious.

The goat product listed has the following
Contains 100 mg fenbendazole per ml. Dosage: 2.9 ml orally per 125 lbs body wt.

2.9mL/125lb is the same ratio as 2.3mL/100lb. 100mg/mL is 10%. Everything I found for Safeguard for cattle, horses, and goats is all the same - 10%, 2.3mL/100lb for the single dose. Canine seems to be different - it's a 22.2% mix.

So, the answer is, I can't see anything that makes the "goat" product a little cheaper :confused:

[gabz]

JB - I was just posting a caution regarding goat products in general.

Yes, 2.9 for 125 pounds is the same as 2.3 for 100 pounds (with rounding up)

I just don't want anyone to think that every goat product (or sheep) can be used for horses.

[JB]

Yes, you're right, sorry, I thought you were cautioning this particular issue :) One should not assume that drugs/products can just cross species :)

[BaileyTW]

Hi, I just caught this thread as I was looking for where to buy a PowerPac for my gelding. I have never PowerPac-ed before, and the price is just crazy! So, to equal one tube (one day) of the PowerPac (1250 lb horse) I would need to give a double dosage of the regular (2.3 ml/100 lbs) doseage of the goat stuff to him each day?

so thats 4.6ml/100lbs, and a full syringe assumes 1250 lbs, so he'd get 57.5 ml a day for 5 days? which means I save $10?

BUT, his actual weight is closer to 1000 lbs (he's a bit stubbornly skinny... why we're powerpac-ing him) so... should I do that instead of the full one tube serving? then were down to 2 goat bottles and I save $25 doing the goat stuff.

Just want to clear this up before I buy one or the other.

[JB]

There is a Safeguar Power-Dose that is for, I think, 1100lb (though they do also have one for 1250lb), which is cheaper than a Power Pac or a 1250lb Power-Dose. However, I think the liquid will still be cheaper, just not by as much as if doing a 1250lb PP.

Yes, for the liquid, you give 4.6mL/100lb a day for the double dose. If he's REALLY 1000lb (I would really err on the heavy side), that's 46mL/day.

Have you done the heartgirthxheartgirthxlength/330 + 50 calculation to see what that says his weight is? Try that and see how it compares to what the weight tape says.

[Countryclips]

Anyone ever had the power pak not work? My daughter has a 6 month old filly that she wormed with 2 other wormers and she was still high egg count so did the power pak for all her horses did another egg count 2 weeks later and she was still high. Very high. She just gave her Equimax and is waiting to see if that does the trick. This baby takes the wormer well so she is getting the full dose.

[BaileyTW]

Thanks for all the info! I got the liquid dewormer, it was BY FAR the cheapest!

I'm a poor college student, so I need to save where I can! thanks again!

[HandsomeBayFarm]

Am I right in that a ML is that same as a CC?

[Posting Trot]

If the PowerPack isn't working, it may be that you're dealing with worms that have become resistant to fenbendazole (the active ingredient). This is a known problem.

You should consult your vet.

[JB]

Am I right in that a ML is that same as a CC?
Yes :)