Squamous Cells in Penis - help & jingles please

[Altitude Rider]

My 20 y.o. gray Andalusian/QH has been diagnosed with Squamous Cells in the urethra area of his penis. He had been kicking at his penis and straining to pee, so hoping it was just a bean I decided to clean his sheath (with some help from my neighbor). Well it was a bit bumpy inside that area, not smooth so I took him into the vet and he was diagnosed.

He's very shy in that area and it took a lot of drugs both times to get him to even drop a little. The vet talked a bit about some options - cutting the cells out and/or partial amputation but b/c he is older and won't drop then it would most likely involve anesthesia, which isn't a great option either. The vet seemed a little grim and couldn't offer much. He did suggest Frankensense oil as a homeopathic remedy to try.

It's been 2 weeks and he seems to be dropping weight, which only happens when he is in heavy work (and he's not). He's still kicking at his penis and peeing still looks uncomfortable, sometimes he goes twice in a row, a little bit at a time. He is also getting some weird lesions on his belly, like open wounds. His cough is getting worse (was diagnosed with COPD a long time ago but never been a big issue) and sometimes I have found some weird chunks of stuff that he has coughed up.

I am really scared about what's going on. I have owned him for more than 16 years. There isn't much info on the web and I have read all the related threads here and contacted some COTH'ers for advice. I know there isn't a quick fix but ANY advice or guidance would help. It's been a crappy year and I am not ready to deal with the inevitable! He goes back to the vet next week, with my other older gray that has melanoma's! :cry:

Please share any info, good or bad. Thank you.

[Quinn]

I have no information to share. What I do have is hope for you and him and trust you'll find an answer whatever that may be. Could the lesions on his stomach be urine burn? I'm very sorry you're faced with this. Jingles and prayers to you today.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[animaldoc]

I don't know where you are, but I would get a second opinion by a board-certified surgeon if you haven't...there may be something you can do. These grow quickly though, so you don't have a ton of time.

[Sanity Rules]

I don't know where you are, but I would get a second opinion by a board-certified surgeon if you haven't...there may be something you can do. These grow quickly though, so you don't have a ton of time.

:( Totally agree! Friend of mine had 2 or 3 inches of her 23yo gelding's penis amputated for the same reason. He did fine under full anesthesia, but every horse is different I must admit.

I am VERY concerned about your horse given the signs and symptoms you've described. :(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:(:( :(

Many jingles and prayers to you and your brave boy.

[cosmos mom]

We have a 15 year old pony at the barn with squamous cell cancer of the penis. The mass is mainly on the penis head. The vets have said that a surgical penilectomy to remove the affected area and reattach the urethra to the penile shaft is the regular course of action. The surgical quote was $2000 for the procedure through the recovery stage and the surgery is said to have a good sucess rate when the sheath is not involved. Currently, the vet has our pony on daily bute to reduce the swelling and an antibiotic due to tissue breakdown. Twice a week, we load the pony up with acepromazine and clean the sheath and penis really well, then we apply a chemotherapy cream followed by panalog ointment (a steroid). We are to continue with this until the surgery is performend to help reduce swelling, tissue breakdown and metastasis. We are having the surgery done towards the end of october. The pony is mych happier and more comfortable since we started this regimen. Good luck with your guy :).

[Nezzy]

I'm sorry. we had a Leo App with Cancer in his penis. it started as a stalklike thing with a ball shaped thing hanging down. i went to clean the sheath and found it, so the vet sedated him, she took a look and she scheduled to remove it. we had the choice of re-sectioning( amputation of an inch or two) at any time, but we decided to keep an eye on it. Every 6 months for 5 years, we had him sedated, had the lesion checked and no problems. the next 6 month visit, the entire penis had become necrotic and we had to put him down. But he was Fat, He was eating, and his coat was shiny. If i could do it over, i would have had the re-sectioning done As soon as we found the first tumor. Good luck to you.

[Watermark Farm]

Hi, just wanted to second AnimalDoc's post, go research surgeons and find someone with experience with urinary tract issues.

Has your gelding been evaluated for the presence of urinary tract stones??? PLEASE get on this quickly, as you do not have time to waste.

My gelding is 22 and had a huge bladder stone removed 18 months ago. Two follow-up scopes showed a lesion in his bladder. Biopsy showed it to be transitional cell carcinoma. I have been lucky to have worked with two really fine surgeons who have a lot of combined experience dealing with the urinary tract. They in turn worked with several pathologists who shed light on my horse's very unusual case. What they eventually decided is that the very non-traditional transitional cell carcinoma does not seem to spread, however, it has served as the basis for my gelding's bladder stone ---- the stone "grew" out of the lesion and was firmly adhered to the base of the bladder. It pays to research your specialists, and get second opinions.

I hope you get to the bottom of things with your gelding quickly!

[JenRose]

When my old guy was 21 he developed a ulcerated mass on his penis. Took him to the vet clinic, and vet thought it was squamous cell carcinoma but wanted to "try something first" before we headed to the surgery center for a biopsy.

Apparently the habronema worm lesions ("summer sores") can present similar in a similar manner.

http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/71801.htm&hide=1

After much attention to the area with creams and cleaning and oral meds, the "cancer" healed. My poor fella is not shy & quickly learned life was easier if he would just drop when I leaned over to look under his belly. :eek:

Jingles & hugs for you and your boy.

[Altitude Rider]

Thanks for all the responses and nice thoughts. I will do some more calling around to different vets in the area as there are many to choose from since I am in Aiken. My regular vet is so busy I can't even get back in until late next week. I talked to another vet and didn't get warm fuzzies from him...I am open to suggestions from anyone that knows the vets in this area. And I will take a list of other possible things it could be when I go back to the vet so we can be as thorough as possible.

The UGA Vet school would be a good option but he's not the best traveler and gets pretty stressed in new living situations especially without his buddies. And then it would obviously be really hard for me to continue to maintain my small farm and job with him being there and me wanting to be with him all the time. Money is a bit of an issue but I can't just give up on him yet. I'm really afraid the surgery would mentally send him over the top even if it helped physically.

Hopefully it is something else, the vet just seemed very sure of what he was seeing, but obviously you never know.

Just bought 25 pounds of carrots and I am spending as much time as possible with him and all the boys right now. I get these weird moments of denial but then it all comes flooding back.

Thanks again everyone. Will update when I know more.

[cloudyandcallie]

You are near UGA? They have great vets.

However, if you want a 2nd opinion, call John Malark at Edisto Equine near Charleston, he is a great surgeon.

I haven't had the experience with horses, but when my cat was a year old, he had to have the penis removed and the urethrea was pulled down, no penis at all, because of kidney stones. Cat lived to be 15 yrs old, almost 16 and died of bladder cancer. But had a great life with kidney stones not lodging where urethrea narrowed to go into penis. And urination is easier too.

Good luck. UGA is great vet school for dogs/cats/horses, and the students stay there with your animals!! They aren't left all alone. I had dogs and cats there and the students took great care of them and the surgeons took great care of them

[Altitude Rider]

Today I was able to get Cody into my regular vet to do the biopsy. Three vets were there and all agreed it was squamous cells below the urethra and then we found some more potential areas on the outside of the upper penis. We pulled two areas for biopsy.

Last night his sheath started swelling. I gave him a dose of Naquadex and a dose of Qualiprim to see if it would reduce that, which it didn't. I had called another vet and said this is an emergency. That vet never called back and luckily my regular vet called and had a cancellation.

The swelling was apparently caused from a yeast infection that had formed in the last two weeks since the last visit when he was originally diagnosed. Apparently the yeast can come from the squamous cells. This was in addition to the weight loss & lesions. He was SUCH a good boy while doing the biopsy. There were 2 vets, two techs and me hovering over his penis and he never attempted to be naughty.

Things are happening fast with this. All vets agreed that he will likely need amputation of the lower part of his penis and they will refer me up to UGA. I called UGA to discuss with the recommended surgeon...hope to talk to him tomorrow.

We gave him a big dose of banamine for pain. Blood flow from the biopsy's stopped and he is on SMZ. His attitude is really good, thankfully. Stall rest for two days and then back to normal for now.

It sounds scary and expensive but I will do whatever it takes. I am about to build a new barn but I am already deciding what to cut out of the barn to pay for the surgery.

Will update after biopsy results and vet consultation.

Thank you so much for the PM's, info and good wishes.

[Woodland]

We lost a beloved shetland pony to this - it was tragic! :cry:

[Woodland]

The pony was about 14. He had been my daughter's and she gave him to her little girlfriend when she out grew him. We noticed he rarely dropped to pee and was becoming irritable which was totally not him! The vet was out and recommended a trip to Purdue for a complete work up. At Purdue it was determined that it had metastasized to the internal organs and the decision was made to bring him "home" to the farm and have him put down. He was the sweetest most lovable golden palomino pony God ever made. I loved him so much. The kindness he showed so many children can never ever be measured.

[Watermark Farm]

Altitude Rider, thanks for the update, and I am sending good wishes your way! Have faith that what's meant to be will ultimately happen....the universe works in ways we cannot always understand, especially with horses!

Katie

[Sanity Rules]

Today I was able to get Cody into my regular vet to do the biopsy. Three vets were there and all agreed it was squamous cells below the urethra and then we found some more potential areas on the outside of the upper penis. We pulled two areas for biopsy.

Last night his sheath started swelling. I gave him a dose of Naquadex and a dose of Qualiprim to see if it would reduce that, which it didn't. I had called another vet and said this is an emergency. That vet never called back and luckily my regular vet called and had a cancellation.

The swelling was apparently caused from a yeast infection that had formed in the last two weeks since the last visit when he was originally diagnosed. Apparently the yeast can come from the squamous cells. This was in addition to the weight loss & lesions. He was SUCH a good boy while doing the biopsy. There were 2 vets, two techs and me hovering over his penis and he never attempted to be naughty.

Things are happening fast with this. All vets agreed that he will likely need amputation of the lower part of his penis and they will refer me up to UGA. I called UGA to discuss with the recommended surgeon...hope to talk to him tomorrow.

We gave him a big dose of banamine for pain. Blood flow from the biopsy's stopped and he is on SMZ. His attitude is really good, thankfully. Stall rest for two days and then back to normal for now.

It sounds scary and expensive but I will do whatever it takes. I am about to build a new barn but I am already deciding what to cut out of the barn to pay for the surgery.

Will update after biopsy results and vet consultation.

Thank you so much for the PM's, info and good wishes.

Our prayers and thoughts go out to you and yours. Keep the faith that your vets know the best and kindest thing for your boy.
Amy and Eagle.

[animaldoc]

We'll keep jingling for your boy. Dr. Peroni at UGA is great (we've known him for years).....

[Nezzy]

Good Luck! i hope they are able to get it all. A friend of mine had a horse who had the surgery in 1987. Her horse lived for years afterward. Keep your chin up!

[knz66]

our 20 something year old pony had this and we elected for a paritial amputation. The surgery went fantastic, healed great and was never any issues. We mainly didnt want it to spread up in to his bladder where once there, is basically untreatable.

I wish you and your boy the best of luck and give him a carrot for me!

[Altitude Rider]

Woodland - how did they determine it had spread to the organs??? Will they check for this before he goes to surgery??

He looks so happy but my gut keeps telling me it's worse than I think. Too many other immunity type things keep showing up. The vet did say the "lesions" on his belly were likely a result of the cells as well.

I can't believe I have to wait until Tues or so for the biopsy results which were sent to Clemson.

The gray with the Melanoma's seems to be about the same. I can peek at the large tumors periodically when he drops and they don't seem to have changed much in the past two weeks. Besides being bit by my naughty TB and needing stitches, he is OK.

I haven't heard back from UGA yet. Also have a message into Edisto Equine.

Thanks for all the background with other cases and also all the support.

[equinelaw]

I hope you get good news, or at elast less bad news. Whatever the best possible news can be:(

[Katie-Nicole]

So, it's obvious that I'm studying for microbiology. I read your title and got a chuckle. I'm like "So? I have squamous cells too." But squamous cell carcinoma is a whole different ball game. :( I have no experience here, but wish you guys the best for a quick recovery!

[blackstallion]

Many jingles for you and both your fella's.

[Woodland]

They palpated, and xrays showed the mass. It was bad - he had an odor about him - cancer smells - I can't explain but the smell foretold his condition. I just knew - we would have done anything - but it was to late. :cry:

[Altitude Rider]

I spoke with Dr. Malark this morning. He was very nice and gave me some good, honest information.

In summary:
Likely would remove 1/2 or most of penis, especially if biopsies confirm it is also up high and on the outside of the penis as well as the lower part. 50% chance that they get it all and is successful. 2-3 years of good life expectancy if all goes well in surgery. 1 day pre-op, surgery, then 3-4 days in the clinic, then 1 week stall rest. Apx. cost $1,500 for surgery & front desk will call back with recovery cost estimate. Since they can't tell how long it's been an issue then I think that factors into how successful the surgery can be or not.

After biopsy results next week we will do a rectal exam, ultrasound and check lymph nodes (with my regular vet) to look see if it has spread and then make a decision from there.

Dr. Peroni from UGA has not called back.

Cody seems a little depressed today but is eating fine. :(

[cloudyandcallie]

I spoke with Dr. Malark this morning. He was very nice and gave me some good, honest information.

In summary:
Likely would remove 1/2 or most of penis, especially if biopsies confirm it is also up high and on the outside of the penis as well as the lower part. 50% chance that they get it all and is successful. 2-3 years of good life expectancy if all goes well in surgery. 1 day pre-op, surgery, then 3-4 days in the clinic, then 1 week stall rest. Apx. cost $1,500 for surgery & front desk will call back with recovery cost estimate. Since they can't tell how long it's been an issue then I think that factors into how successful the surgery can be or not.

After biopsy results next week we will do a rectal exam, ultrasound and check lymph nodes (with my regular vet) to look see if it has spread and then make a decision from there.

Dr. Peroni from UGA has not called back.

Cody seems a little depressed today but is eating fine. :(

John is great! Trailer down and let him see the horse. Take all your vet records or have them sent to him. If anyone can help your boy, John can. And he tells you upfront the survival rate.
Good luck.

P.S. My cat Davis was depressed when he had to lose his penis to live, but after the operation, he was just as much a tomcat as before and could beat up other cats for 15 more years. Once the pain is gone, your horse will rebound mentally and physically.

[Altitude Rider]

Woodland - before they did the x-rays, did your pony show any of the other symptoms that my horse has been showing (losing weight, odd lesions, coughing swelling sheath or gunk from his nose)??

This morning he went out and grazed for a while and then went to this stick growing in the pasture to scratch himself (the stick had been a tree, now all the leaves are gone). It went on for a while so I went out to get him and take a better look. The stick was 6" deep into his sheath!! He didn't even want to move away from it. I took him up to the wash rack and rinsed the whole sheath, inside and out and then applied toad jelly to the outside of it and right at the belly button area.

I just came home from a polo game and he is back at the stick. The area around the stick is completely worn down from him spending so much time there, although this is the most time I have noticed him doing this. He used to rub the outside of his sheath when the bugs were really bad and that made more sense.

Someone asked me the other day if my vet had "sat me down to really talk about what is happening" to my horse. And with some of the replies I get to this thread (our prayers are with you), I am so afraid that he is really getting to a bad stage. I think my vet is waiting until we have the biopsy results (even though they all agreed what it was) and do some x-rays but I wish they would be more upfront instead of looking grim.

Next step may be a trip to UGA where there are lots of vets to look, scope, ultrasound and possibly surgery. I just want to know so I can make the best decision for him...I am really trying to listen to what he is telling me as well.

[Nezzy]

i'd remove the stick, as well. Good luck.

[cloudyandcallie]

Nezzy's right, move the stick.

If the penis is itching, ask vet for something non-steroidal to use, or put zinc oxide on the inside of the shealth.

If the penis is hurting, ask vet if ok to use bute or banamine to help him.

Obviously if the cancer has spread beyond the penis, the prognosis is grim.

But if it has not spread, and John Malark says you can give him 3 or 4 more years of a good life, I'd go for it.

Good luck.

And I hope your other horse is better too.

[Altitude Rider]

The results are back and confirmed the squam cell carcinoma. Middle stage according to the numbers.

Vet is going to call his contacts at UGA since they have not called me back. He will discuss with them and then we will go from there. Based on other things going on with Cody, he says it may have spread into the lymph nodes but that would require further testing.

Dr. Malark said 2-3 years if they are successful at removing it all and said it is about 50% chance of success. $3000 for surgery there. If we go the surgery route, I will likely take him to UGA b/c they have 24/7 care. Of course there are many worries about the surgery - age, stress, colic, $$.

Cody has not been scratching on the stick in the last few days since finishing the course of SMZ so maybe that was from the yeast infection that had occurred between vet visits. Swelling in sheath is gone but still not comfortable urinating, which I guess is b/c it is so close to his urethra.

Going back to vet on Friday...will update after info from UGA.

Jingles please...really, really sad. :cry:

[hollyhorse2000]

I just wanted to add my sympathies. This sounds very difficult on many levels. I'm very sorry . . .

[Watermark Farm]

That's so hard to see your horse hurting. I am sure that once you get all the facts and look at it all, you will be able to decide what course to take. Have you got him on some high doses of probiotics? That will help with the yeast issues and offset the SMZs.

[Nezzy]

very difficult decision to make. Either way, you are doing what's best for him. HUGS!!

[Altitude Rider]

Last night was the final dose of the SMZ. I will look into adding probiotics. I have started adding rice bran & grain balancer to his diet of Beet pulp, Senior Elite (which I think may have some probiotics in it) and flax seed. Also have upped his hay at night and he is on grass during the day.

I have the full report which was done at Clemson, but it's full of language I don't understand. As mentioned we will be back at vet on Friday and will go through it, line by line, with vet.

Does anyone know how they do testing of the lymph nodes? How do others interpret the "middle stage" of this?

Thanks again for all the good thoughts.

[cloudyandcallie]

Last night was the final dose of the SMZ. I will look into adding probiotics. I have started adding rice bran & grain balancer to his diet of Beet pulp, Senior Elite (which I think may have some probiotics in it) and flax seed. Also have upped his hay at night and he is on grass during the day.

I have the full report which was done at Clemson, but it's full of language I don't understand. As mentioned we will be back at vet on Friday and will go through it, line by line, with vet.

Does anyone know how they do testing of the lymph nodes? How do others interpret the "middle stage" of this?

Thanks again for all the good thoughts.


I don't know the term "middle stage" but I do know how they test lymph nodes as my cat had it done at Briarcliff years ago when she had cryptococcus and years before my then boyfriend had his cocker done in st louis when the dog had lymphoscarcoma.

The vet takes out a lymph node. Both dog and cat had theirs removed from their necks since the lymph glands were swollen there. I'm not sure where it will be removed on your boy, but they sedate them and take one out, a realitively simple operation on a dog or cat, more dangerous on a horse of course since you have to worry about colic every time you put them under sedation.

So UGA will really do a good job. When my dog Raleigh Oliver had orthopaedic surgery there, a nice student spent a lot of time with him since I had to drive back and forth, and Raleigh gave his "vet" a dozen red roses when he got out of the hospital. Now we'd probably give a card for gas!

Good luck. The vets there are teaching vets and will do everything possible for your boy.

[equinelaw]

Last night was the final dose of the SMZ. I will look into adding probiotics. I have started adding rice bran & grain balancer to his diet of Beet pulp, Senior Elite (which I think may have some probiotics in it) and flax seed. Also have upped his hay at night and he is on grass during the day.

I have the full report which was done at Clemson, but it's full of language I don't understand. As mentioned we will be back at vet on Friday and will go through it, line by line, with vet.

Does anyone know how they do testing of the lymph nodes? How do others interpret the "middle stage" of this?

Thanks again for all the good thoughts.

I don't know anything about your horses condition, but I do have 120 lbs of Senior Elite that has been looking for a home. Can you use it? It about a month old but stored in a sealed plastic trash can.

[sid]

Oh my, I just read this thread. I send you and Cody best wishes and good luck in what appears to be a rather rare medical condition.

I've had more than my share of "rare" horse conditions come my way in the last 22 years, and the only I can advise is keep a good team of vets who tend to this with your and Cody's interests in mind, trust your instincts and ask a lot of questions regarding his hope of recovering to a relatively normal life.

Cancer is an anomoly in horses as compared to colic and the other "well known" problems to treat. Get the best you can in this area who will give you straight talk.

I'll keep you and Cody in my prayers.

Susan

[Altitude Rider]

Cloudy - thanks for the lymph info. That sounds like a big step. I am just so nervous about putting him under anesthesia. I think the best thing will be to get him up to UGA, do as much work-up without going under and then if WE (vets, myself & Cody) feel he can handle it, we can go for the surgery.

I guess there are 4 stages of cancer. Whether he is a 2 or 3 is what I am not sure of, either way, it's not a great position. My vet said most people don't find it until stage 3 or 4.

Sid - it is rare and I know my vet is not dancing around the issue, he just hasn't dealt with it very much. I google and google to get more info but there just isn't much there or it's all in medical terms. My friend who is an ENT Dr. seems pretty worried about him based on what I have told her. No one wants to say "your horse has X number of months, years to live" and I understand, b/c no one really knows.

When I went to UGA last year with my TB for colic, they were all over it and very professional. I was there for all the scopes, rectals (way too many of those, poor guy) and other testing. They kept me informed and kept his blanket on as the constant fluids made him shiver. I felt confident in their work. So I am guessing we will be up there next week (and of course I have to move into my new place starting Wed.).

Equine Law - yes, I will take the Sr. Elite off your hands! What a great local product. I will send a PM with my phone number and I can come pick it up.

Watermark - I found a tube of probiotics in the barn and gave him a dose last night, thanks for that info. Hard to think of everything to do right now.

I'll start poking around his lymph nodes in the back end to see if I find swelling. I wish it were more simple to determine if it has spread (besides my own gut feeling).

Thanks everyone.

[cloudyandcallie]

They'll just do a biopsy from the lymp node and tell you the news, good or bad.

I know with humans stage 3 cancer is bad.

But then check out holistichorse, I think it is email karen@holistic horse, just sent me an email about hemp and cancer diets for horses.

As one poster said, cancer is pretty rare in horses, aside from the grey melanoma issues.

I hope your boy's cancer hasn't spread and he will survive his surgery well..

Along with Equine Law's feed, to keep the gut working after surgery (or any illness) get some seminole version of happy hoof, it used to be happy hoof but now they have something else, and it is mostly fiber and will keep the gut working when a horse is laid up in a stall. Seminole is sold in SC, as my widowed aunt's boyfriend gets it for his overweight mini over in Orangeburg, so check your local seminole dealer.

good luck. keep us posted.

Added: and remember, lymph nodes can get swollen without their being cancerous, when there is an infection or cancer, the white blood cells multiply and the lymph nodes swell. So hang on and wait for the verdict of the doctors. They will be able to tell you what is going on with out eveyrone speculating.

Sometimes when the "mother" tumor is killed off, by removal usually, with radiation and/orchemo, the other tumors disappear. (Lance Armstrong being the perfect example)

I had a dog with lymphosarcoma (including a tumor on his testicles, and the vet removed the tumor without removing the testicles, vet said Boo had had them 14 yrs and could keep them still altho I said take them off.) who lived for 2 years, on pain meds, and died at age 16. As opposed to Donnie's cocker in St. Louis who only lived 3 months. It depends on the stage and the animal.

Hang in there.

[Altitude Rider]

I am checking out the Holistic Horse, thanks for that tip. Two people have recommended Frankensense oil so I may be ordering that.

All my vet books are packed away until next week and I have looked on the internet a bit but need an answer to a dumb question....

Where are his lymph nodes in the back end??

Oddly enough, his Goiter seems to be smaller than it was a couple of weeks ago. Maybe the SMZ had something to do with that? (I like to tease him about his Goiter, he doesn't think it's funny though!) :D

He is pretty perky today and was playing with the TB for the first time in a while. That was fun to see.

[cloudyandcallie]

I am checking out the Holistic Horse, thanks for that tip. Two people have recommended Frankensense oil so I may be ordering that.

All my vet books are packed away until next week and I have looked on the internet a bit but need an answer to a dumb question....

Where are his lymph nodes in the back end??

Oddly enough, his Goiter seems to be smaller than it was a couple of weeks ago. Maybe the SMZ had something to do with that? (I like to tease him about his Goiter, he doesn't think it's funny though!) :D

He is pretty perky today and was playing with the TB for the first time in a while. That was fun to see.

Run your hands over the back of the legs and just on the inside of the legs. Any swelling on the inside or back of the legs above the hocks?

Then on the stomach area under the rib cages back towards the shealth and back towards the tail, on either side of the sheath

Humans have, hmm, is it 138 lymph nodes? I cannot remember how many horses have.

When Boo the Aussie had lymphosarcoma, he had swelling at the back-insides of his hind legs, and just behind his front legs on his body, and of course on both sides of the neck (like when humans get swollen glands when they have colds or the flu).

And ask your vet if apple cider vinegar will help with the whizzing (urination). My dogs, cats, and horses all get a little apple cider vinegar daily to help regulate the PH of their urine.

And run your fingers down his throat latch area, the same area where you see the pix when horses have strangles. You can tell if there is any swelling there. When cancer gets into the lymphatic system, it can show up in the lymph nodes all over the body.

My vet says I don't need to be using more than a tablespoon a day for Cloudy, and that I give him more than he needs, but he's a warmblood so he drinks the stuff.

[Sanity Rules]

Jingles, Kisses, and [Hugs] to you and yours! Sending lots of prayers your way too! :cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry::cry: :cry::cry:

[cosmos mom]

Mad jingles for you! Our pony just had the surgery on Monday and did really well. They removed 1/3 of the penis. He is so much more comfortable now! Every case is different. Our pony had the bad smell, he wouldn't drop his peepee and about a month before the surgery, on one of the tumors ruptured and bled. We pushed the surgery ahead beacuse his comfort level was decreasing. It cost about $1800. Do what is best for your guy- only you can know what that is, and no one should judge you for it ;).

[Altitude Rider]

Cosmos Mom - I am so happy the surgery went well for your pony! That makes me feel better about us moving forward with it. How long was he in recovery at the surgical facility? How long for stall rest when he came home?

Last night I spoke with an animal communicator to ask Cody how he felt about the surgery. She said that he said he was a bit confused as to how he would pee if they took some of it off but as long as he could still pee then he thought the surgery would make him feel better and add more years to his life. She said that he is very happy in his body and was very honored that I gave him the choice about surgery. I asked her to relay to him to understand that I would not be abandoning him if I couldn't be there for every moment after the surgery and that I would only leave to take care of his buddies back home. She said he understands and knows that I would never abandon him.

I took him out on a bareback ride after the message from Joy, the communicator. He was happy to get out and we talked about the upcoming changes. It was a huge weight off my shoulders. I am still nervous about it but I want/need to do all I can for him. Note: Cloudyandcallie gave me the tip of Holistic Horse.com which is where I contacted the communicator. I really, really liked her....thanks again Cloudy.

Today I sat down with my vet and we went over all the pros and cons of surgery. I have decided that it will be beneficial to him...maybe a little scary for both of us but that it will be better in the long run. The vet said he is in good health overall, the cancer was caught soon enough to have a good chance for the surgery to be successful and that he would be in good hands at UGA. They will also do a full work-up at UGA to be sure he is a good candidate for the surgery.

So I will get moved to my new house next week and then allow the boys to get settled in for a week or so before taking him to UGA for the surgery in apx. 2 weeks. I will spend as much time as a I can up there with him but will likely have to come back for a day or two while he is recovering. It is a relief to have made the decision.

I will post when we get through all this and thank you all so much for the good wishes. Keep us in your thoughts!

[cloudyandcallie]

Good luck.
If you can be there when he comes out of surgery, do so.
When my friend's horse had surgery, he heard us talking when he woke up and so he wasn't as dazed and confused as he could have been. My friend went back later that day to edisto to sit with him.
Visit him as often as you can. If you can, get someone to feed for you at home, and can spend the first one or two days with him after surgery, it can make the difference between "giving up" and living.
If you cannot, leave something with your scent on it, something big, like sweatshirts and your bedding, so he can smell you in his stall.
When they wake up from surgery in a "strange" location, the hospital, they can panic and/or give up.
I always take my dogs and cats home from surgery when they wake up.
Cannot do that with a horse, but I had my friend go sit with her horse every day at Malark's till the horse came home.
While a lot of people disagree with me, I think animals can be influenced to struggle to live if their owners stay with them and talk them thru the recovery period. They then feel that you will be coming back to get them and take them home from the hospital.
And get ready to make lots of alfalfa tea for him, I assume that is what UGA gives to recovering patients.

[cosmos mom]

The vet clinic said that they would keep him about 3 days after surgery to be sure he was peeing and healing ok. Actually, they called us the next day and said that he was doing so well, he could go home that day! They know that money is a concern, so sending him home early saved us about $200. He is on antibiotics and bute. We check his temperature daily and watch him to be sure he is not having issues with urination, but he's doing incredibly well! He is on daily turnout, no riding for the first 14 days , then starting back to work slowly over the next 14 days. He is a new man! Good luck! please let us know how it goes.

[freshman]

Amputation of the penis in these older guys d/t scc and it is a relatively routine procedure. Most are geldings in their teens or 20's and they do very well with the surgery and recovery; I recently saw one in his early 30's undergo this procedure w/o complications.

It does involve general anesthesia and a short hospital stay so that the horse can be monitored closely for urination or complications such excessive swelling or bleeding. Even though most don't seem to have any problems, it makes sense to keep a close eye on these boys, since they are usually a bit older and it is better to keep on top of their hydration status, etc.

Of course, only you and your vet can decide what to do or if he has other conditions that make him a less than ideal surgery canidate. But if the horse is uncomfortable and is having difficulty urinating, then something has to happen. The surgery is not so bad and I've never seen a horse have any issues, urinary or, err, psychological problems that owners seem to think will be a big deal. They have a stump and they pee freely ,and while most won't drop out of the sheath to urinate, this is not a big deal. They do so w/o discomfort; it's business as usual for a gelding, no need to learn new tricks.

[Sanity Rules]

My friend had a 23 yo Standardbred who had about a 1/3 or the penis amputated for the same reason. He is doing wonderflly! Even competing in Competitive Trail Rides! Don't give up hope!!!!!! :D:D:D:cool::cool::cool::yes::yes::yes::cool::cool ::cool::D:D:D

[Altitude Rider]

Great feedback!

I will FOR SURE be there during and after the surgery. If he only has to stay for a few days, then I can stay the whole time. I have some people to take care of the horses at home but my concern with them is that they will be at my new house with a slightly different set-up. I freak out a bit when other people take care of my horses so I have this need to come back and check on them...even if I came home for an hour or two then drove back to UGA I would be alright. (OK maybe I am a bit of a control freak!) :D

I have a feeling he will heal quickly so he can get home. There has already been less stress in the barn since I made up my mind about the surgery Thursday night. Last week the boys were looking at each other and asking "why does mom cry every time she walks out here??" No more of that!

[cosmos mom]

you have a plan of attack now! Excellent!

[Nezzy]

i think this will all work out and he'll probably live a long life. Good Luck and Let us know how he does.

[cloudyandcallie]

Encouraging news that cosmos mom has the pony who is recovering so well.

It's not as invasive surgery as colic surgery, so hopefully he won't be under too long and he'll be up and groggy and ready for food, something that he won't be happy to miss when he's having alfalfa tea or the like.

Surgery this week? Take deep breaths, relax, and park in the parking lot and we'll all hope for good news when you report back.

[cosmos mom]

new update on our pony jellybean: He was trotting in the field today! Less than one week after surgery!!!

[Buffyblue]

Jingles, and best of luck with the surgery and recovery!

[cloudyandcallie]

new update on our pony jellybean: He was trotting in the field today! Less than one week after surgery!!!


This is inspiring!

[cloudyandcallie]

Cody is not feeling well today.:(

We hope he will feel better and get to Athens for his surgery this week.

Is Cody feeling better tonight?

[blackstallion]

Still jingling in Virginia for your fella's!

[cloudyandcallie]

Still jingling in Virginia for your fella's!

Cody was colicky this morning. :(

[Altitude Rider]

Cloudy posted a brief about Cody colicing today and I will provide some detail.
The last time he coliced was Dec 06 and that was brought on by the new TB, dehydration and an abscess.

I went out to feed at 6:30 am, a half hour earlier than normal, because the farrier was coming out for Ready at 7. Walking out to the barn, I see Ready and the "white boys", Cody & Sticks, in the moonlight so I go in the tack room to prepare feed. They all usually go off to pee or poop at this time, until served, so I am mixing the feed as usual.

Ready eats first and I notice Cody is still outside his stall. Then I go get the white boys feed and Cody is still not in his stall to eat (oh crap!). I drop the food for Sticks and walk into the run behind the stall and there he is, laying in the pee area right behind the stall, where he NEVER lies down. I can't believe it!

I check breathing, gut, etc but it's beyond obvious. He won't get up so I run to get phone...find out vet on call and ring her at 7 am. she's an hour away, so I give banamine. I got him into stall with a big effort & gave 10cc IM.

She finally arrives and rectals without drugs but I tell her he is hard to tube. So she gives first dose and we try the tube. He is coughing, blowing and then the nose begins to bleed, a lot! Wait that out and one gallon of blood later and another big doe of drugs (Dorm this time I think) and we try the other nostril with a smaller tube (Note: hes' a big boy). He will not take it all the way down, completely controlling that last passage on his own. Finally he let's it go and we get the oil, etc into him.

He was drinking fairly well but no poop by 2:00 so I take him for a hand walk and he has two small poops. Then I followed someone's advice to add a bit of feed into 5 gal of water to get him to drink and WOW, it totally worked. barely any feed but he sucked down 10 quarts...then 2 gallons fresh. I mixed another batch, also about 10 quarts and he drank all that, slower than first batch but he drank it.

Still scheduling surgery...I believe he is uncomfortable when he tries to pee and I saw him kick at it at least 3 times today. He really snapped back to normal this afternoon and I want him to be strong before we go to Athens.
I hope all goes normal tonight. Seemed fine at 9:30.

The colic seems like he is talking. Is he saying no to the surgery? Is he feeling my stress about the whole thing? Is he saying, get me the he## over there, NOW? I haven't been sleeping well and I know they all feel my tension. It's confusing but I still feel like it's the best choice. If we get to Athens and after more testing they determine he is not a good candidate, then that would be different.

Many people reached out to us today, people who have known us since we moved here as well as new friends via the COTH...all with a deep love of horses. It is so appreciated and helps keep me going. thanks everyone!

[Nezzy]

Stay Strong. I think the surgery is the right move.

[cloudyandcallie]

Hope you two are in Athens now.

Both of you are just stressing out and the pain from his cancer could be making him not want to drink enought water.

And the water trick worked without having to hook up the IV.

Good luck and I hope you can get some sleep.:yes:

Yeah, Cody is better this afternoon and is manuring well. Hope y'all will get the call to go to Athens so you can get the surgery done. Good luck.

[ivy62]

good luck and jingles from NY.......

[chai]

Altitude, I am sorry to read about the colic on top of the cancer diagnosis. I hope he came through the colic ok and you are good to go for the surgery. Would you mind describing where the cancer is? I am asking only because my Shire has two golfball sized lumps up in his sheath, near where the sheath attaches to his body. Two vets have examined him and we did an ultrasound of the lumps and the vets believe it is from being gelded poorly. I hope that's what it is but the possibility of cancer has always been in the back of my mind.

I hope your dear boy made a full recovery from the colic...what a long day for both of you, and everything will go smoothly at Athens. Best of luck to both of you.

[Altitude Rider]

First, Cody is doing fine after the mild (soft impaction) colic. Have been able to get lots of fluids in him and going light on returning to normal feed.

Dr. Peroni from UGA called this evening to discuss the surgery for Cody and to schedule his arrival next Tues and surgery on Wed. He explained that it would hopefully be like a circumcision and only take a small amount from the bottom to be less envassive and less time under. He said amputation could be a little more complicated but they will determine when they see it.

I expressed to him that sooner than next week was better for horse and myself if at all possible...and after more conversation (below), he is working on moving up the date.

He said that it can spread into the lungs of older horses but is pretty rare, however a chest x-ray could help determine. I let him know he had been diagnosed COPD a while back but that it was really off and on.

Next he discussed the lymph nodes. He said that the squamous cell carcinoma commonly spreads into the lymph system. I let him know of the other things that had occurred, the colic, weight loss, yeast infection, lesions on belly, random nose goop and coughing periodically in the morning. He then sounded a lot more serious and said that a full work up and all this history will help us make a better determination of if it has spread. He said it could be multiple conditions going on as well but we could make good decisions once he is up there.

He did say the surgery for the penis would still be a good choice but again, we could make better decisions upon arrival. He is going to consult with a couple of other specialists in house and make sure that they would be available when we arrive...he is also going to let the scheduling staff know to coordinate with all these people and see if we can get him in sooner.

He seems totally back to normal after the colic yesterday and we are easing back into normal feed schedule. I am sure there will be some pre-op instructions.

Chai - Cody's issue is in his urethra fossa, the area where you would feel around for a bean when cleaning the penis/sheath and they feel sort of rough or cauliflower like. My Arab has lumps (soft but not squishy) on the outside, upper part of his penis and inside the upper part of his sheath, these are melanoma's. We didn't need to ultrasound to determine...the Arab's are like grapes but black and bluish. Cody did have a biopsy but it is very different.

Thanks again everyone. Will keep you posted.

[cloudyandcallie]

Get some sleep you and both horses.

The anxiety of waiting till next week is not good for you mentally, just keep giving him water with dissolved grain and keep him hydrated so when he does have surgery, he'll have lots of water in his gut.

Good luck. Moving, sick horse, all the stress. Keep eating and have a glass of wine.

[equinelaw]

Fingers crossed they move it up as soon as they can. Please let me know if you need anything at all:yes:

[cloudyandcallie]

Equinelaw gave Cody a lot of Honey's things to help him feel better.

[Altitude Rider]

UGA called this morning. Dr. Peroni consulted with Dr. Hart who will receive Cody. She is not able to take any new patients until next week...so the plan is still to go up early Tuesday and do all the initial testing. Then the docs will consult about the results. The concern lies not with cutting off the affected area but with all the other things that have been going on which seem immune related. If all looks good we will do the surgery on Wed. and hopefully go home late Friday afternoon.

I'm OK now that I have a date set and talked with someone more familiar with all this than my vet (who is very good at all the normal stuff). This allows me to get 90% moved into my new place (closing today). The horses can still stay here where I am renting until Cody is recovered enough, then I will move all the boys to our new home.

Very kind of equinelaw to donate feed and stuff to Cody. Cloudy was emailing like mad on Monday when the colic was going on, keeping us staying positive.

[cloudyandcallie]

Get moved, get settled and get something to boost Cody's immune system.

Darn, what's the product I used to use on Cloudy and Callie? It was made in Utah. For immune system boosting.

Keep Cody hydrated till surgery and get an immune booster for him from a local feed/tack store in Aiken.

[cloudyandcallie]

Good luck in Athens today and tomorrow.:yes:

[cosmos mom]

Any word? Still jingling!

[cloudyandcallie]

They are in Athens now. If all goes well, surgery tomorrow.

Keep your hooves crossed for Cody.

[gabz]

everything is crossed. Hoping for the absolute best for Cody and his "mom".

[cloudyandcallie]

Yeah Cody! All the tests went well.

Glad you are back home and that your cancer wasn't as advanced as local vet thought it was.

And what a brave horse to go thru all the other testing.:yes:

Cody keeps his penis!!!

[Blacklabs]

Thanks for update, so glad all went well.

[Proud To Be Spotted]

Cody keeps his penis!!!


What a great line.

I'm glad it all went well.

[amdfarm]

That is a great line!! I'm glad it wasn't as bad as first thought, too. Hope he's doing well after all those tests. Poor guy!

Jingles...

[Altitude Rider]

The trip up to UGA went well. Because he is believed to have COPD, we did lots of testing on Tuesday. General physical, blood work, tracheal wash (nearly passed out during this procedure), scoped trachea and esophogas, initial check of the penis and lymph nodes, etc. Dr. Hart was concerned that he is aspirating feed into his airways b/c it showed up on the trach scope although lung fluid and x-rays appeared normal. We decided we would do another trach scope Wed. AM to look at it after not being in the trailer and without feed (he ate breakfast and then we took feed away). There didn't appear to be nearly as much feed in the trach the next day and we got to look at his guttoral (sp?) pouches as well. His eppiglotis appeared to be a bit enlarged but not blocking anything.

SO, finally Dr. Peroni, Dr. Kay and cute Dr. Argentina (I forgot his name) all came to examine Cody's penis. They all looked and discussed the biopsy results then Dr. Peroni said NO WAY was this horse a candidate for surgery. The mass was not nearly large enough to remove it and he was even questioning the biopsy although they did all agree it appeared to be squam cells just at the really early stage. We agreed to scope the bladder and urethra to double check that area for squam cells, stones or anything weird. It was all normal...poor Cody, this was the most brutal of the testing but he took it like a man.

They all decided it should be treated with a Chemo cream, 5-FU (I think, it's in the barn) every 3 days. This requires sedation and he doesn't like to drop so it's not very easy either. I was able to apply it yesterday but he wasn't too happy about it. Now I need to watch for any adverse reactions, swelling, blistering, trouble urinating, etc. We go back in 3 weeks for a re-check and possibly more COPD testing.

UGA was GREAT. It's hard to watch them do all that stuff to your horse but at the same time it is very cool to learn new things. They explain everything to you and they were great about letting me stick around. I stayed in his stall until nearly 8 pm Tuesday night and then was back in before 8 am the next day. Cody was such a trooper!

Thanks everyone for all the insight and jingles. It was REALLY hard to wait to get answers from Dr.'s that are familiar with these things. I understand that the vets in town just don't see that kind of thing very often and weren't really sure which direction to go with it.

[Quinn]

I am so thrilled for you! Excellent report. You'll both be in my thoughts for continued good health. Jingles, jingles, jingles but really happy ones.

http://community.webshots.com/user/ballyduff

[Watermark Farm]

I am so happy to hear that Cody's testing went well. Poor Cody. That testing is not at all fun. The bladder scope alone is very tough on them. Big hugs to Cody from all the creatures at Watermark Farm.

[blackstallion]

YAY Cody! Glad all went well and the diagnosis is good news! Maybe it's a mixed blessing that he went to the hospital for his penis, and he need attention to his COPD issues. Hope he is feeling better all around in 3 weeks :)

[cloudyandcallie]

It is great news that Cody will be around for another Christmas with his family in their new home.:D

And with the cooler weather, and less humidity, I hope his lungs will improve.

Good luck and keep us posted on his recovery.

My only question is uh, how do you train him to drop to put the creme on his penis?:lol:

Treat/reward system?