AC4H Saves Two Exracers - Their Story

[Marli]

These two lovely geldings, Truth to Power and Toy Thief were saved from shipping to slaughter a few weeks back. Read their story here:

http://www.ac4h.com/T&TStory.htm

[Barbara L.]

Christy Sheidy says:
"Truth to Power and Toy Thief have both required some extensive veterinary work, none of which has been reimbursed by their former trainers, Philadelphia Park or the track's new retirement program, Turning for Home (which declined to take the horses despite the fact that, as horses that were stabled at the track and had raced there, they were eligible for the program.) To date their medical bills are over a thousand dollars."

Actually, the horses were not eligible for the program.

If anyone would like to know the criteria for putting a horse into Turning For Home, or wants to ask about our policy on purchasing horses from auction, just call and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

We have acquired over 60 horses in the program in the four months of its existence -- horses with no injuries and horses with severe injuries--we take them all, and we are very proud of the national praise we have received for our efforts. We hope to continue with the work we do, following our busines plabn and mission, and we thank Christy for the great work she does, too. Let's all stick together on this, ok?

[imissvixen]

Why not just state your policy here?

[MoJo]

Actually, the horses were not eligible for the program.

If anyone would like to know the criteria for putting a horse into Turning For Home, or wants to ask about our policy on purchasing horses from auction, just call and I'll be happy to answer any questions.

IMissVixen you raise a very good point. This is public organization and non profit, why not just state the criteria and policies for all to read? Certainly it would answer anyone's questions of interest on what the criteria is for this org. and moreso since it's a new org.

Also of noticeable mention is the footnote at the bottom of this story. Seems these horses according to Pa law were unfit for travel or sale. Besides the offender having reimbursed the 'ransom' for these two and he was traced to be known at Philadelphia Park, the bigger question is will Turning for Home/AC4H be pursuing prosecution to what by all accounts would be an easy prosecuturial case? There is clear evidence according to this story. Is Turning for Home/AC4H interested in working to prosecute?

[kcmel]

Christy Sheidy says:

Actually, the horses were not eligible for the program.

Why not?

[chaltagor]

The horses went from Phila Park to New Holland and were bought by a KB. ac4h bought them from him. I'm guessing Turning for Home only accepts horses if they're still at the track? If you look at their Horse Intake Form you'll find it asks for the barn no., stall and how long the horse can stay at the track.

confirm/deny?

[AC4H]

The vet reports gathered (over $1,000.00) are evidence for the prosecution of violation of PA law. I emailed Barbara asking if she intended to prosecute, I haven't gotten an answer back.

[AC4H]

Thank you Barbara for what you have done with this case thus far. I agree we all need to work together and we are.

[Nyminute09]

So is Philly Park working with you on this? Also, what is wrong with the horses you guys saved?

[Iron Horse Farm]

So is Philly Park working with you on this? Also, what is wrong with the horses you guys saved?

THis was my question.

Debilitating injury is not at all specific.

[AC4H]

Digital X-ray's

Toy Thief:

Chip fracture left front fetlock. Also Apical sesamoid fracture. Right front knee shows mild arthritis (shows swelling externally). Right front fetlock shows arthritis and looks a bit ragged.

Truth to Power:

Lameness right hind leg. Right hock shows arthritis and bone spurs. Stifle films need to be looked at more thoroughly. Right front fetlock large sesamoid fracture at base. Previous films taken in April provided by Barbara/trainer for review to today show changes.

[Nyminute09]

Wow they are some serious injuries!! The thing that bothers me though about going after the meatman is that while yes, he brought the horses to the sale, the trainers were the one's who gave them to him in that condition! They knew the damage that they inflicted and also, trust me, THEY KNEW where they were going!

Now is Philly going to press charges and if so, who are they going to after??

Also, I still do not understand why they weren't eligible for the Turning for Home program??

[kbean]

Seems to me that AC4H is to be thanked for saving the horses and that, while Philadelphia Park stepped up to make sure that AC4H was repaid for the horses, someone dropped the ball. Barbara L, WHY NOT state right here for all to see what your policy is regarding the intake of horses? Most horse rescue and retirement groups post their acceptance policies right on their websites, especially those that are 501(c)3s. Actually, transparency is legally required in a not for profit. So why don't you just tell us now what your requirements are? These horses raced at your track, were stabled there and you knew it! Why did you refuse to take them into your program? It seems that horses like these two would need the protection of your program more than most. You call yourself a rescue. If the horses you take in are on only on your track isn't that more of a retirement program? While you speak of "working together" which is vitally important in rescue in order to succeed, why not work with AC4H to help these two poor souls that came from your track? If all of the rescues and retirement programs don't truly work together as partners in an open and honest way, the horses pay the ultimate price.

Kudos to you for taking in 60 horses so far! Where are they? Have they been adopted out? Are the ones with injuries being treated by people who are equipped to do so? When they are ready to move on are they placed with contracts that make sure they will be safe in their new homes? For how long? Forever? Who checks on that? Are the places you send them checked on regularly? Can anyone go check on these horses? Do you have a list of each program that took horses in from Turning for Home and their adoption policies, the horses that went to them and their status? Their books, and yours should be open since you're a not for profit:confused:

[Nyminute09]

A friend if mine was told that this place is one of the facilities that takes some of the horse's from the program.

http://nextdancetbs.blogspot.com/

What I don't understand though, is that according to this blog, they put a horse down named Rowdy Rozell because he had a fracture of his hind leg and it wasn't healing properly!

Now they blame the trainer for not sending the X-rays to them for the horse... " his was the result of his previous owners leaving him to languish in their barn for several weeks without the surgery necessary to save him and then sending him to us saying he would recover after several more weeks of stall rest. No matter how many times we asked, we were never sent the x-rays of his leg and so by the time we found out what was really going on, it was too late."

But each place is getting a stipend to help with the care of each horse they take and also a Vet from the track vets the horse out before he goes.......And according to Barbara each trainer has to turn in the horse's papers to her for return to the Jockey Club....

You would think that X-rays would accompany the intake form and papers, or since the program is getting the stipend- WOULDN'T IT MAKE SENSE to have X-RAYS taken by a vet when the horse got to the farm to see the damage that has been done!! I mean other rescues do that (AC4H for example with Truth to Power and Toy Soldier) and THEY DO NOT GET MONEY from TURNING for HOME or any other source for that expense!!

That just seems very odd that the track vet or Barbara L wouldn't give up the x-rays to this place for review....

I just don't understand the guidelines of this program and when you go on the website http://www.patha.org/tfh.htm
there is NO detailed information about anything...why is it so hush-hush and you have to contact Barbara L for the info.

I am in upstate NY and would love to see something implemented at Finger Lakes like this, but the lack of details published leave me scratching my head...

[Lori B]

Daylight is the best disinfectant. If you want us to trust you and your policies, state 'em here.

[kbean]

Okay, so Barbara L is entrusting horses straight off the track, some injured, to a 21 year old college student who is majoring in Wildlife Management? How many horses? And they get a stipend? How much? Why don't the people taking the horses in get compete vet records? NONE of this makes any sense at all!!! Why all of the mystery? I just checked the websites of several TB retirement/rescue groups and they are chock full of info - retirement forms, adoption forms... Not so with Turning for Home. One has to call Barbara Luna. What's wrong with this picture? It sure sounds like there are horses paying the price here. Do the trainers and owners who turned their horses over know this? Wonder how they feel about it. How about some straight answers Barbara L?

[kbean]

Daylight is the best disinfectant. If you want us to trust you and your policies, state 'em here.

I agree wholeheartedly!!!

[Nyminute09]

My friend just emailed me the response she had gotten from Barbara L when she posted on COTH http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=161721 on August 11, 2008... and I quote Barbara...

"Or try Turning For Home, Inc. at Philadelphia Park. We have almost 30 horses in our program since we started it 3 months ago--many are big and beautiful. Some are on our website, and I am still adding more every week. You are welcome to meet me at the track to look at the ones that are still here, or go to sjtr.org, or rerun.org. You can also call reindancer therapeutic riding center to look at about 10 of them. They are in New Egypt, NJ. I've got a lovely 16.2 hand chestnut gelding I am thinking of for you right now that is still here at the track.
They come complete with vet records, xrays is available, current Coggins, and all background info.!!"

Hmmm... then why did they put this poor Rowdy Rozell down if he came with all vet records and the such?????? DOESN'T MAKE SENSE!!!!

[chaltagor]

I'm not trying to stir the pot or anything, but you can see Rowdy Rozell, he's still featured on the Turning for Home page: http://www.patha.org/tfh.htm

There is a dearth of information about the program and how it works on the internet. I don't think it's a big conspiracy; just doesn't have a big internet presence. There are still a few people who don't run to the 'net for everything!

[Barbara L.]

I will try to answer all these questions as quickly and to the point as I can.
Our website is a work in progress: I have not finished putting all of the info on it--believe me, WE HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE AT ALL! Seriously---you are all hellbent on attacking the program, if you are so serious about it, and I am not getting to you fast enough, CALL ME! I spend ALL of my time trying to work on placing these horses, fundraising, etc., not defending the program.

SO:
1) Criteria for program: trainers or owners who are based at Philadelphia Park for at least 6 months out of the year, and who want to find homes/safe haven for their retired or injured horses need only come to my office, on track, turn in the JC papers, supply me with xrays, digitals, ultrasounds or vet records, fill out one info sheet on a horse(s) that are based at the track. Intact males must be castrated. We do not turn any horse down due to lameness issues. It is a voluntary program, we do not make the trainers come to us, though in ruling that no trainer can send a horse to a livestock auction, we have become a very big outlet for many of them.

2) Toy Thief and Truth to Power were sent to New Holland at the early stages of our program. We did not turn them down--they were never presented to the program.
Immediately after we found out they were there and had been purchased by AC4H, the racing secretary and the head of the PTHA called in the shipper/trainer and spoke to him, told him to reimburse Christy for the horses, which he did, and warned him that if he (or any other trainer) were ever found to take horses to livestock auctions, they would have their stalls revoked.

3) When we developed the program, we decided not to purchase horses from auction--our best method of helping trainers and owners to perform responsibly is not to buy the horses back after they have already been sold, and the trainers and owners have made a few dollars, but to be here on track everyday, and offer them the opportunity to do the right thing. We try to keep an eye on the goings-on at these auctions to make sure that our horses do not end up there, and if one does, then the trainers will have to face losing their stalls. We made this very public back when those two horses ended up at New Holland.

4) We have a budget. Our budget allows us best to work from here, with horses that are at the track. We hope someday we can open the program up to a bigger group, but for now, with our budget, this is what we do.

5) We send the horses to retirement facilities that I personally check. Rowdy Rozell was not left to languish in a stall at the track, blah, blah, That bit of fiction was placed on their website by a young, overzealous volunteer who really only had the best of intentions.

6) Complete veterinary records DO accompany our horses to wherever they go, and we are on weekly, often daily contact with the farms on all of their conditions. We do not just send them off and forget about them. We choose the farms because they operate under AAEP guidelines for foster/rescue facilities, and we approve of their adoption policies. Of the 60 horses that are in the program, or on their way in, over 17 of them have been adopted, I have the contact info for every adopter. I have photos of every horse before he/she came into the program, as back up.

I'm sure you all have many more questions, and hopefully, I have answered the bulk of them. I will try to get on the stick with updating our website so that no one has to waste his or her time posting on a forum that I may not even get to read more than once week.

Does this clear things up a little?

[MMorgan]

So far, I have heard that Suffolk Downs has implemented a zero tolerance policy for trainers sending horses to slaughter. I wasn't aware of any other tracks taking such a position (sadly) yet, but wondered if your statement below means that Philly Park has such a policy as well?

"the head of the PTHA called in the shipper/trainer and spoke to him, told him to reimburse Christy for the horses, which he did, and warned him that if he (or any other trainer) were ever found to take horses to livestock auctions, they would have their stalls revoked."

Anyone?

[Barbara L.]

We implemented our zero tolerance policy that same day.

[MMorgan]

Thank you for clarifying, Barbara. That is fantastic news, but not widely known (or I am just very behind:confused:). Was there ever a press release?--word needs to get out and tracks need to be thanked for taking a stand IMO.

[TBdoITfaster]

Interesting.

You mentioned the budget for the Philly Park program. What percentage goes to operation expenses vs. salary?

Also- could not find Turning For Home listed as a valid 501c3 in Charity Navigator or the IRS website.
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96136,00.html Why?

[TBdoITfaster]

http://www.pennsylvaniaequestrian.com/news/PTHA-thoroughbred-horse-rescue.php

[chaltagor]

I don't see the "different wording." That's exactly what Barbara just wrote. Those could be the same horses we're discussing. She said "We implemented our zero tolerance policy that same day."

[MoJo]

Interesting.

You mentioned the budget for the Philly Park program. What percentage goes to operation expenses vs. salary?

Also- could not find Turning For Home listed as a valid 501c3 in Charity Navigator or the IRS website.
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96136,00.html Why?

SALARY??? I understand that some orgs. do have people on payroll but for any start up org. one would *think* that any salary would be backburner at least until operations get up and running succesfully.

[FairWeather]

Xrays arent owned by the track, they are owned by the person who hired the vet to get them. Sometimes those xrays aren't available, oftentimes the "owners" aren't willing to hand them over--it has nothing to do with whatever program gets the horses, unless they themselves took xrays.

[Nyminute09]

SALARY??? I ditto Mojo's surprise to that... How much of the budget does go to that???

I am not trying to be a ball buster at all, because I think the concept is a good one, but I guess the questions I have is that many of the horses have such debilitating injuries that they are just good as pastures pets at best... what happens if they cannot be adopted out? Do these places keep them and if so, once they exhaust the initial stipend do they get any more money to help with the care of the horse?

[lolalola]

Why is everyone "shocked" that such an operation would include a salary? I think Barbara is the only employee involved in the program, but do any of you work full-time for free, unless you are independently wealthy? Generally, programs that have some salaried employees are more successful than those who rely only on volunteers, because with an all-volunteer program you are basically depending on the goodwill of those volunteers. If they don't feel like doing something, they don't do it. There's no accountability.

I have been to the Next Dance TB rescue and the horses are very well-cared for. They are also holding horse shows at the farm to raise funds for the program. Why is there so much criticism in horse rescue? Every well-run rescue has a policy about which horses they will or will not accept. Rerun, for example, where Barbara was the executive director, only takes horses off the track. Many people over the years wanted to have them accept a former racehorse who has been off the track for a while - they can't do it. It's not their policy. Standardbred Retirement Foundation only take STBS - but there are people who are ticked off at them for not accepting a horse of another breed!
Give Philly Park some credit for doing this - they're way ahead of most other tracks.

[Xctrygirl]

I hesitate to post this, but for the good of him I will.

My boss and by default I guess I too had Toy Thief in my string when we were based at Delaware and Belmont a couple years back.

I was worried about him then as we claimed him from a known trainer who would maybe not have the soundest horses, but he did have a good vet.

He had soundness issues on and off and I believe was claimed from or sold from my boss, or his owner after I had switched jobs and moved onto a different trainer.

I wish I could tell you that this never happens, but after 3-4 years on the backside I found it does happen. More and more.

As we speak right now there is an old horse from my string on the CANTER listings. Yet when the trainer miraculously called me to tell me he was done due to being "off at the trot, but he gallops fine" :eek: (I have bugged him at the end of each year's meet and expressed my desire to be informed if he was ever done)
I was saddened to hear that his ankles are now 90% fused. Thus ruling out a useful role for me or friends I have mentioned him to as a potential sport horse. So I spent 3 days contacting people who knew him to see about giving him a great retirement asap. I spoke to the farm who stands his sire, I called his breeders, my old boss, his former owner, the TRF etc etc. When I started to get a line on the possibilities I called his current owner/trainer back to give him an update and when I mentioned 'retirement' it all fell to pieces. The trainer won't allow him to go to retirement. He thought I wanted him for a sport horse...I tried to explain there were options outside of the Trf he was even less inclined to listen.

I explained that I was initially interested in him myself, but the ankles precluded that course now. I mentioned retirement farms and he immediately launched into a diatribe saying how he wouldn't "..send a pig to any of the TRF farms." He has "plenty" of people who will take him. That was 10 days ago. 2 days ago the horse who was lame enough at a trot that the trainer said he was done, has been entered for another race at the track tomorrow. And there's nothing I can do.

This is the reality kids. The horses make money, and they are pushed until they are useless. Or less useful anyway. I saw it firsthand, and though I know there are exceptions...but right now I am very distraught.


I hope Toy Thief is ok, I know his legs weren't great 2 years ago. I hope someone can donate and get him to be sound enough to be a pasture puff.

~Emily

[Nyminute09]

Why is everyone "shocked" that such an operation would include a salary? I think Barbara is the only employee involved in the program, but do any of you work full-time for free, unless you are independently wealthy? Generally, programs that have some salaried employees are more successful than those who rely only on volunteers, because with an all-volunteer program you are basically depending on the goodwill of those volunteers. If they don't feel like doing something, they don't do it. There's no accountability.

I have been to the Next Dance TB rescue and the horses are very well-cared for. They are also holding horse shows at the farm to raise funds for the program. Why is there so much criticism in horse rescue? Every well-run rescue has a policy about which horses they will or will not accept. Rerun, for example, where Barbara was the executive director, only takes horses off the track. Many people over the years wanted to have them accept a former racehorse who has been off the track for a while - they can't do it. It's not their policy. Standardbred Retirement Foundation only take STBS - but there are people who are ticked off at them for not accepting a horse of another breed!
Give Philly Park some credit for doing this - they're way ahead of most other tracks.

I do give Philly some credit for setting up this program, but there are a lot of variables that are still unanswered! That's all...

I wish I was independently wealthy in that I could work for free:D, but to be honest, from what sources have told me- this salary Turning for home is not Paying her some minimum wage job!

I guess another question I have- is what happens when a farm gets full??? What happens to the horses that cannot be adopted? Does all funding stop for the farm after the initial stipend is exhausted?

I mean each owner is having $10 deducted from their purse everytime they run a horse! So, say that-Hypothetically- there are 9 races a day with small fields- say 7 horses! 9x7=63 x $10=$630 Say they race 216 days a year, so that comes to $136,080!

Now who gets that money? I mean these questions are going to be asked and need to be answered! I know as an owner myself, I do not mind contributing $10 per start towards the program- I think it is a good idea, but would also like to see some sort of budget sheet- which I am hoping we will all see come year end!!

JMHO!!

[EqTrainer]

I wouldn't get my panties too in a wad about that; if they have 60 horses in their care that gives each horse about $250/year budget. It costs me that much EACH MONTH to keep two OTTB's in rehab. It's not really a lot of money when it comes to horse care, trust me ;)

[MySparrow]

Why are so many of you harping at Turning for Home? Seems like a young but growing program serving a vital need. How about some support for something we all know is needed?

[rigoletto]

SO:
1) Criteria for program: trainers or owners who are based at Philadelphia Park for at least 6 months out of the year, and who want to find homes/safe haven for their retired or injured horses need only come to my office, on track, turn in the JC papers, supply me with xrays, digitals, ultrasounds or vet records, fill out one info sheet on a horse(s) that are based at the track. Intact males must be castrated. We do not turn any horse down due to lameness issues. It is a voluntary program, we do not make the trainers come to us, though in ruling that no trainer can send a horse to a livestock auction, we have become a very big outlet for many of them.

I'm sure you all have many more questions, and hopefully, I have answered the bulk of them. I will try to get on the stick with updating our website so that no one has to waste his or her time posting on a forum that I may not even get to read more than once week.

Does this clear things up a little?

Barbara, I hate to be a fly in the ointment but when I contacted you this summer about a horse at Philly that needed a place to go you specifically told me that TFH would not take the horse unless the trainer himself came in and filled out the application. Now in the first paragraph above you state that the trainer doesn't have to do so? If you remember correctly, I also offered to pay the $250 admission fee that was required at the time (and discontinued a couple of days later.) Maybe I'm not fully comprehending what you're trying to say. It's been a long day. But in my estimation, this was a case of a horse that needed a place to go, had been stabled at Philadelphia Park for over, raced at Philly exclusively and had someone willing to pay the donation to get the horse into the program. So because the person willing to do so was not the trainer or owner who was physically at the track, but a rescue person you've known for a couple of years, you turned the horse down? How did this help the horse? Just curious. And are you the sole decision maker as to when the horses are accepted and which one of the participating farms they are sent to? What happens once the stipends that go along with the horses run out?

Oh, and you and I both know that Suffolk's zero tolerance policy was started prior to Philly's.

Diana

[Linny]

Xctrygirl, you have learned why (sadly) alot of 'cloak and dagger" behind the scenes stuff happens in the process of getting horses off the track.
No one can be straight about what they are doing. People have to put up ransom money to claim horses that shouldn't be running. Horses like this one are too sore to use as riding horses but are racing because the trainer wont "retire" him.

[rigoletto]

Why are so many of you harping at Turning for Home? Seems like a young but growing program serving a vital need. How about some support for something we all know is needed?


Just looking for some honesty. All of the retirement programs are vital whether they're for Thoroughbreds or any other breed and they deserve our support. But when they are run in a way that doesn't serve the horses well, it hurts everyone. All new programs have growing pains, some more than others. But there seem to be some real red flags here. The site has been up for 5 months, long enough to have all of this info up and running. Protecting these horses is too important not to do it carefully.

[take_a_deep_breathe]

I have never posted before, but feel the need to address some issues here!
This Turning for Home program is a great concept, but seems like it was thrown into action a bit prematurely as there seem to be a lot of holes in it!

First off, to the individual who stated that not everybody runs to the internet for information- I have to inform you that almost 72% of Americans use the internet for one thing or another. I know in my experience with buying and selling horses almost 95% of the horses I have sold have been done so off of internet ads- not by word of mouth!

So my question is this- the website, as Barbara said, is a work in progress, but it really needs to be more detailed as you can reach a lot more people and potential adopters with it! Also, it really should include a list of all the farms these horses go to with links to each farm, so anyone interested can contact them directly- rather than contact her directly! That would free up more of her time and it will reach a larger population of people!

Secondly, to the individual who stated that they have been to Reindancer and the horses were well taken care of [edit], I accompanied a friend's daughter to a lesson there once and was very upset when I walked into the back barn that housed the thoroughbreds [edit]. While the facility is gorgeous and the stalls were clean, the horses do not look well! I went on the PATHA website and looked at some before pictures and many of them had lost tons of weight! Their top lines were gone and many were very sunken inand very ribby! I have dealt with thoroughbreds before and they are a different type of breed! They are not in the category of easy keeper! Now the people, who run the farm, were very nice to me but do not seem to be very knowledgeable in the care of thoroughbreds, especially ones right off the track!

I guess another question I have is what is the prerequisite for an approved farm? Also, besides Barbara, is there a committee who goes out and checks up on these horses since the track and horseman are funding their care?

People are not trying to be vicious here- just very curious as to what the procedures are and also making sure that everything that is being done is in the best interest of the horses! That's all!

[Calamber]

I don't mean to join into a mob attack on Turning For Home but I am very curious as how one thinks they are protecting a horse when their identities (their papers) are taken from them, they are eliminated from the JC database and the horse is no more. I find that puts them in a much greater risk in the future, since one has to think of that. Keeping the papers with them, and developing a different policy with the JC whereby the horses could be excluded from racing with a different procedure would be far better. There goes their breeders names, their sire and dams names, and the possibility of ever contacting them again if by chance they may want to help one of their own.
This is just shortsighted thinking imho.

[AC4H]

Barbara - I just want to know and need to know as I haven't gotten an answer. Are you going to prosecute this case? Thank you.

[BeverlyAStrauss]

"when I walked into the back barn that housed the thoroughbreds [edit]. While the facility is gorgeous and the stalls were clean, the horses do not look well! I went on the PATHA website and looked at some before pictures and many of them had lost tons of weight! Their top lines were gone and many were very sunken inand very ribby!"

All too often TBs will lose weight and muscle when they come off the track, for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, many of them have been receiving steroids or other drugs- they come off cold turkey and crash. It doesnt matter what you feed them or how much! Secondly, their whole physiology is changing. They no longer are kept in a stall for 23 hours and fed 20++ qts of grain. They are dead fit and need to let down. Very few TBs put weight on from the moment they leave the track. Most look worse before they look better- that is part of the game when these guys come off the track.

Please, let's keep working towards a solution, and let each program do what they can to provide futures for our OTTBs. We are all working towards the same goal, and hopefully all learning from each other on how to do things better or more efficiently. If you have questions, it is perhaps better to call the person who can answer you directly, rather than throw around "suspicions" in a public forum. If you want to feed the fire, post away. If you truly want answers, go to the source.

Just my 2¢

Bev Strauss
MidAtlantic Horse Rescue

[take_a_deep_breathe]

"BeverlyAStrauss;3553851 If you have questions, it is perhaps better to call the person who can answer you directly, rather than throw around "suspicions" in a public forum. If you want to feed the fire, post away. If you truly want answers, go to the source.

Just my 2¢

Bev Strauss
MidAtlantic Horse RescueB]"


Everyone is entitled to their opinion (that's what the first amendment is for) but these are not "suspicions" that are being thrown around!

I have been involved in thoroughbred breeding and owning for over 25 years and have seen first hand what happens to horses being let down when they come straight off the track! I have also seen the effects of epo and other steroids as horses were detoxing! Words cannot describe the pain I feel for them!

I went with my friend to Reindancer knowing that they had taken on the horses from the track! While I agree with you that some horses, when they come off the track lose weight immediately due to drugs, steroids, nerves- whatever, many of these horses were from Philadelphia Park who actually have a ban against using steroid effective April 1st.

But riddle me this batman! There was a horse; they called Big Mac that was at the barn! He is an ex-racehorse and was being used as a lead pony at the track. My friend informed me that he was huge (weight wise) when he came to them, but slowly started losing weight! When I saw him, he too like the other thoroughbreds, was all sunken in, had no topline and you could see his ribs! My friend told me that she was so upset seeing the decline of these horse's conditions week after week when her daughter would come to lessons, she pulled her daughter from the program and has gone to another facility!

So, this horse, Big Mac, #1- Was not being let down #2- Was not on steroids or any other drug #3- was not a nervous type horse. [edit]

So Bev Strauss, while you may be right that some horses decline when they come off the track, I will not dispute that, on this particular occasion, however, you are dead wrong!

[edit] I can only tell my story and make people aware of what I saw first handed!!

[SEPowell]

Hello Take A Deep Breath,
I know Bev well and I'm sure she'll check back and respond to your concerns.

My concern regarding this thread, and perhaps this is some of what Bev is feeling, is that Turning for Home is a new ambitious program, still in the learning phase of understanding exactly what they need to do to oversee their horses' care as well as fully understand the limits of what they can aspire to do. Somewhat aggressive and public questioning tends to create more questions than answers, and doubts linger long after the thread disappears. Contacting Barbara privately to discuss these questions, as she requested, is more appropriate at this point and I'm sure would help both the horses and the program greatly.

Observations like yours are very important for any rescue to know about. I'm glad you were so observant and I'm sure BL would appreciate it if you called her immediately should you see something like this in the future. If you have a camera, take pictures. Taking action like this will only help her make more informed decisions as she tries to manage many many horses and also encourage her to develop a system for monitoring the horses under her umbrella if she doesn't already have one.

[rigoletto]: Have you not yet learned that your aggressive manner does not help any tb rescue? You were on the board of TRF, have you already forgotten that not even the richest tb rescue in the country can save all the thoroughbreds all the time? [edit]

[LarissaL]

I went with my friend to Reindancer knowing that they had taken on the horses from the track! While I agree with you that some horses, when they come off the track lose weight immediately due to drugs, steroids, nerves- whatever, many of these horses were from Philadelphia Park who actually have a ban against using steroid effective April 1st.


The effects of steroid crash are longer term than you are guessing. I have a horse pulled from the track at the end of last October.. see the picture taken April 26, 2008. 6 months AFTER leaving the track and goodness knows how long after his last steroid injection.

October 20-something, 2007: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11321645@N03/2908135000/

April 26, 2008: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11321645@N03/2765346161/

Unless you have the blood tests on these horses, then yes, these are "suspicions." Fact is - horses have lost weight. Suspicion is - lack of care.

I don't know much about the program, but I should hope it has enough oversight to ensure the horses are getting adequate care.

[Lady Counselor]

OK, so I arrived at this party kind of late. And I don't know any of the players here. After reading through this thread, a few things jump out at me:

Philly has started a retirement program for TB? Good for them! This is new territory for most places and there are a lot of obstacles to navigate through. I imagine that there are also going to be changes implemented in the programs as issues arise and are dealt with. The need for homes for these horses is staggering. It can very quickly outstrip resources of any outfit taking them. If I was in charge of admissions, I would be pretty cautious about how many head I take in and what the chances of rehoming would be. That's a daunting task.

That being said, why is everyone sniping at BarbaraL? Is there some back story I haven't heard yet? If so what is it? Without that, this sounds like a lynching party starting up. I would truly like to know if these programs are being mismanaged or run by Celita types.

Posters are saying that the two horses were turned down by the very program in effect for them. Barbara states that the 2 horses in question were never presented the program. I don't know what the truth of the matter is, but it sure sounds like these 2 horses are not at NH now because of this program.

They have 60 head in the program now, seems to me they ARE using the $10 fees for the purpose for which they were intended. So why the bitching about salary, transparency, etc? Is the program truly in place or not? So the wording changed on the site...don't you think a new program is going to go through changes and growing pains?

It was asked when the zero tolerance policy was placed in effect. Why does that matter? It's in effect now isn't it? :confused:

The overwhelming sentiment that I am gathering from this thread is negative and borderline anger towards them. Would you rather they disband? If so then why?

You know, I am all for exposing the bad organizations in this world. There have been a few of them that have come to light on this forum. But....I also wholeheartedly support the many fine folks who are out there working to MAKE a difference in the horse world, and I really don't like seeing them get attacked in public like this.

I would REALLY hate to see people who are working to make positive changes get soured on it and walk away. There are too few of them out there to risk driving the good ones away. I sure as hell don't have time to give up my job to work at it full time....do you?

[chaltagor]

First off, to the individual who stated that not everybody runs to the internet for information- I have to inform you that almost 72% of Americans use the internet for one thing or another. I know in my experience with buying and selling horses almost 95% of the horses I have sold have been done so off of internet ads- not by word of mouth!

Well! I am the only one at my barn that goes online at least once a week! I know, it's amazing! Many people that I talk to daily don't go online whenever they want to find something! Just today I was telling someone about ac4h and she doesn't even have a computer! I didn't have any phone numbers so we were out of luck! She's looking for a beginner horse!

Did you call the AC about the horses at Reindancer! If they were so bad then that's what you should do!

BTW, no one can take a deep breathe, but everyone can take a deep breath! Writing with an exclamation mark at the end of every sentence makes me think you're 14 years old! This isn't Myspace!!11!

[take_a_deep_breathe]

Well! I am the only one at my barn that goes online at least once a week! I know, it's amazing! Many people that I talk to daily don't go online whenever they want to find something! Just today I was telling someone about ac4h and she doesn't even have a computer! I didn't have any phone numbers so we were out of luck! She's looking for a beginner horse!

Did you call the AC about the horses at Reindancer! If they were so bad then that's what you should do!

BTW, no one can take a deep breathe, but everyone can take a deep breath! Writing with an exclamation mark at the end of every sentence makes me think you're 14 years old! This isn't Myspace!!11!

OUCH... I must have struck a nerve with you- that wasn't my intention, but the truth must hurt!

Sorry for stating FACTS!!!!! (Yes exclamation points!) Trust me, my friend already had informed me that some people there were very tempted to contact the authorities, but never did! Instead, they moved their horses out of there.

And thanks for the advice on myspace! I do not have an account, but because of your suggestion I will have to look into establishing one!!!!!!!!

[Whisper]

Now in the first paragraph above you state that the trainer doesn't have to do so?
Oh, and you and I both know that Suffolk's zero tolerance policy was started prior to Philly's.
I'm not affiliated with the program, so could be mistaken, but I think you misread the first paragraph. I took it to mean that trainers are not required to participate, but that no horse can join the program unless its owner or trainer comes in and signs him up.

I also took the "same day" zero tolerance policy to mean the same day they discovered the trainer in question sent those two horses to auction, not the same day as Suffolk implemented its policy.

Take_a_deep_breathe, while I agree that a good website is an excellent idea for programs, especially of this nature, I don't think they should have waited to start until they could find a good web developer to volunteer and get all of their material up! Give them some time to get things together. :)

[lolalola]

I was the one who went to Reindancer a few weeks ago. In fact, I wrote a story about the Next Dance program that is in this month's edition of Horse News. Take a Deep Breath, if you live in Allentown you likely know who I am, and I may know you. I have owned TBs all of my life and am very familiar with them. The horses I saw last month looked fine, for horses that had recently come off the track. None of them looked like skin and bones. Go ahead and call animal control officer Mary Klink. I'm sure she will agree with me, unless something drastic has happened in the past month. People are going in and out of that barn all the time, and they hold horse shows there. There is nothing being hidden.

[lolalola]

I've also contacted the director of the Reindancer program and alerted her to this thread, and am hoping she will reply to this thread and answer any questions.

[rigoletto]

Hello Take A Deep Breath,
I know Bev well and I'm sure she'll check back and respond to your concerns.

My concern regarding this thread, and perhaps this is some of what Bev is feeling, is that Turning for Home is a new ambitious program, still in the learning phase of understanding exactly what they need to do to oversee their horses' care as well as fully understand the limits of what they can aspire to do. Somewhat aggressive and public questioning tends to create more questions than answers, and doubts linger long after the thread disappears. Contacting Barbara privately to discuss these questions, as she requested, is more appropriate at this point and I'm sure would help both the horses and the program greatly.

Observations like yours are very important for any rescue to know about. I'm glad you were so observant and I'm sure BL would appreciate it if you called her immediately should you see something like this in the future. If you have a camera, take pictures. Taking action like this will only help her make more informed decisions as she tries to manage many many horses and also encourage her to develop a system for monitoring the horses under her umbrella if she doesn't already have one.

Diana Baker: Have you not yet learned that your aggressive manner does not help any tb rescue? You were on the board of TRF, have you already forgotten that not even the richest tb rescue in the country can save all the thoroughbreds all the time? [edit]

Hello Suzanne Powell. Nice to hear from you, though not in such an angry manner. It's been years several years since I've heard from you so I can't imagine what I've done to upset you so.

Yes I was on the board of the TRF and of course I know that there is not a single rescue that can save every TB in need. You're preaching to the choir, but that's not what this thread is about. This thread was originally about two horses from Philadelphia Park - horses that need some help. It wasn't even about Turning for Home if I read the initial post correctly. [edit]

Were some of my comments on this thread a bit to harsh? To some I'm sure they seem so and if I've offended anyone I apologize for that. I should know better than to post on this forum or any other (something I rarely do anyway) when I'm stressed, upset or frustrated. This situation had me feeling all of the above at various times so maybe my comments should have been kept to myself. But when questions aren't answered when asked directly and privately, one's patience begins to wear thin.



Diana

[lolalola]

OK, contacted Pam.
She wrote:
This is a hate campaign that started with a boarder that was asked to leave our facility. I thought that she had left on pretty good terms but obviously that is not the case. She is good friends with some “track” people and the rest is history.

Anyone who has been to the farm knows what the real story is. The more I try to stop the rumors, the more these people seem to become energized.

They do nothing to help these horses and yet are the biggest critics.
Two weeks ago Barbara came out and took pictures of all of our horses. These pictures are on display outside of her office. I would suggest that anyone with concerns take a look. A picture is worth a thousand words.

[take_a_deep_breathe]

OK... if this is directed at me I have to tell you somethings...

1) Yes I live in Allentown, NJ and some of you probably do know who I am and our paths have probably crossed at one time or another at horse shows or the such.

2) My friend WAS NOT a boarder (Her daughter was a lesson student) nor is she or I friends with anyone at Philadelphia Park. (Monmouth yes.... Philly NO)

3) I know what I saw and will stand by what I posted. I have nothing to prove or gain by stating my comments. My postings are only in the best interest of the horses. The people I met the day I was there were friendly and nice and the facility is gorgeous and clean, I will give them that, but no matter how you cut the mustard- the horses were THIN!

I HAVE SAID MY PEACE AND AM DONE WITH THIS FORUM SO NO NEED TO FRET ABOUT HEARING FROM ME ANYMORE!!!

IT'S NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chaltagor]

My postings are only in the best interest of the horses.

Yes, you surely have changed some horse's lives posting your inanity in cyberspace. Oy vey. :rolleyes:

[Sixhorsessaved]

Diana Baker: Have you not yet learned that your aggressive manner does not help any tb rescue? You were on the board of TRF, have you already forgotten that not even the richest tb rescue in the country can save all the thoroughbreds all the time? [edit]

[edit] Diana Baker is a great champion of horse welfare, and has been for many years. She was formerly an esteemed member of the Board of Directors, Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, among her other numerous associations. I met Diana in this capacity and was immediately impressed with her dedication and unwavering passion to manage race horse transition from track to safe home. She helped me. She helped the horses I rescued. This impressive woman is heads above the rest in terms of sheer dedication to the welfare of horses in general, and of horses at risk of slaughter in particular. Thoroughbreds could not find a better friend. [edit]

[FatPalomino]

Amen

I know Diana and the previous poster's comments were completely out of line.

I also have known lolalola for many years. She is a wonderful woman and a very experienced horse person.

These are two of the very good people the world needs more of, that do everything they possible could to help horses and horse rescue. Trust me when I say very few people have gone to the lengths that these woman have to help horses.

Change doesn't come easily. There seems to be some reasonable questions in regards to Philly's new program. I hope that Barbara can clarify.

[Moderator 1]

We hope it goes without saying that all those posting to, or for that matter reading, this thread have the best interest of the horses involved at heart.

That being said, please avoid the personal commentary directed at each other. You're welcome to discuss this situation/program with the objective of clearing up any misunderstandings or gaining more information.

Though it can be a valuable source of feedback re: the horse industry, this forum is not provided as a means to make allegations or pot-shots against other groups or individuals. You're welcome to make observations and commentary, but please gear it towards maintaining a productive atmosphere where information can be shared vs. battle lines being drawn.

In cases where there are urgent questions requiring the specific attention of the individuals involved, the best tactic is likely to contact those individuals directly.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[SEPowell]

Since making my only post on this thread I have communicated with Diana Baker and clarified a misunderstanding on my part regarding backlash I experienced at New Holland after an HBO special on horse slaughter was placed on the internet. Diana Baker was not at all involved in the production of that special and therefore had no part what so ever in the resulting backlash I experienced at New Holland. I privately apologized for this misunderstanding to Diana and now I'm apologizing to her publicly. I want to also say that after I contacted Diana I received an extraordinary letter from her which gave me insight into her ability to look at a difficult situation, reach an understanding of it and move forward with a sense of collaboration and greater purpose. She is dedicated to horse rescue and more than willing to discuss related issues and find solutions.

[FatPalomino]

From someone who has is extraordinary helpful for Diana's assistance, thank you for posting this clarification.

Now, back to topic. Barbara L. or anyone else from the Philly Park program is going to answer these reasonable questions? Has anyone emailed her and received a response?

[Nyminute09]

Any updates on this Thread???