Grooming for LF Endurance--HELP!!!

[Highflyer]

Ok, guys, I need help. My mom is doing the Morven Park * next weekend, and my sister and I are going to be her pit crew. Neither of us have ever done a 3 day (and the friend who has and as going to help, just bailed). My mom's done the 1/2 *, but she's not super helpful explaining what we need to do for her. I have a copy of Jimmy Wofford's Training the 3 Day Horse, so I'll try to read at least the immediately relevant parts of that this weekend, but does anyone want to sum up the basics for us? Any tips?

[deltawave]

See if you can find a copy of the "Event Groom's Handbook" at alibris and have it delivered stat.

Basic tips: make sure your rider is ready for anything in the vet box: she ought to have a spare everything on hand, just in case. Spare bridle already fit to the horse, spare stirrup and leather at the proper length, spare gloves, spare crop, spare rein, spare shoe with studs that is the right size for the horse, etc. Make sure you have a cooler if it's not warm outside, and something waterproof to cover your "gear" if it's wet (a rain sheet is perfect). Make sure you have a snack and a drink for the rider.

Bring a halter and lead WITH the horse's number attached to the 10-minute box so you can control him without messing with the bridle. Slip it on over the bridle. Make sure you have plenty of buckets, sponges, 2 sweat scrapers and lots of towels. You may need to cool the horse rapidly and lots of cold water, sponges, scrapers and willing hands are necessary. Keep the saddly DRY when you're sponging and scraping--a saddle cover is handy for this. Also keep the reins dry if you can, this is why you need towels.

What will happen: the rider will trot into the 10-minute box and dismount. The vets will watch him trot in and usually that's sufficient. You immediately halter the horse; the vet crew will be right there to check vitals. As soon as they have their data, start walking the horse (listen to the vitals so you know if he's really stressed or OK) and get him cooled off. Loosen the girth and run up the stirrups. Check boots, shoes and studs. The rider needs to sit and rest and not be worrying about the horse, but she'll probably be watching like a hawk.

You'll have 7 or 8 minutes to cool and clean the horse up, then he needs to be jogged for the vets again, and vitals re-taken. You will need to jog the horse up and back for the vets; the rider will be hovering nearby. If all's well, tighten the girth, put on grease if your rider wants it (keep the reins absolutely clean and dry) and recheck boots, studs and shoes. Wash out the horse's mouth with a syringe if he'll let you; you'll have offered him a drink already earlier. Make sure the rider has crop, gloves, pinny, armband and helmet FASTENED. Leg her up, and off she goes!

Now clean up your gear and haul it over to the finish box, which is usually very close by or in the same exact area. Get your buckets and cooler ready to cool out again. When the horse comes in, the vets will again take vitals and you can strip the tack and get the horse cooled off. Make SURE you have the horse re-examined by the vets (they will tell you when they want him) and are RELEASED before horse and rider head back to the barn.

[KSevnter]

Don't forget the items (and person) needed for the C-Halt. You need bucket, sweat scraper, towel, the shoes (with the studs), an easyboot and water for your rider.

I lost a shoe on steeplechase there one year so it is imperative you have the shoes. Got another tacked on and was on my way in no time.

You will be fine, just ask the people stabled next to you to help put together your stuff for the vet box and you should be all set.

[curlykarot]

This has been discussed before, and in great detail! Lucky you! Here is the thread that you want to read, http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=146793
, and there is a link in that thread to another thread that is even more detailed. I had read both prior to grooming for a friend at the Virginia 1* this past May and found them very helpful.

I don't know if this is mentioned in those threads, but it was helpful to have both - a new small sponge and a new plastic syringe. The mare wouldn't drink out of a bucket and wouldn't let me get the syringe near her mouth. Dunking the small sponge and slipping it into the corners of her mouth was the only way to get her to drink anything before we got back to stabling.

[Highflyer]

Thanks, that is exactly the stuff I was looking for! (I don't know why I can never find stuff when I search, but I can't.) I'm going to print two copies--one for Morven and one 'cause I'm hoping to do the T3D next year :)

[cevent]

See if you can find a copy of the "Event Groom's Handbook" at alibris and have it delivered stat.

I second this! I had to buy it from the UK, but it's a great book:)

[bambam]

A while back I attended Gillian Clissold's preparing for a three day clinic which was geared as much towards grooming on that day for the first time as for the riding prepping for it and really pretty methodically walked through what would be needed. I took ridiculously detailed notes (I am a dork). I think I posted those notes on one of these threads. If you cannot find them with a search, let me know and I will email them to you (yes I typed up my notes from that day- I told you I was a dork and I was really worried I would forget something that my rider would need). I know asterix took my notes and used parts of them for a preparing for the 3-day post on the Waredaca Training 3DE site but my recollection is that what she posted was pulled mostly the rider stuff and less of the groom stuff but you should check that site.
The thread that JAGold started on this that is in the reference thread also has a ton of info.

[asterix]

yah, bambam's notes were great. The tips sheet I did from that and from running the T3d is at http://www.waredaca.com/competitions/2006/t3daytips.shtml
the stuff for the 10 minute box is at the end.
But bambam is right, it was written for the rider and not the groom. Her raw notes are probably more helpful for you.

You should probably decide ahead of time who is going to do what so you are very coordinated -- also don't forget to change stirrup lengths for your rider if you need to.

[yellowbritches]

Everyone has offered great advice, and there is lots of great info out there. Both on the board and elsewhere. I LOVE the Event Groom's Handbook. GREAT resource (I about wore it out as it was my bible early on in my job...I pretty much went from the frying pan to the fire and needed all the help I could get!).

Make sure EVERYONE knows there job long before the horse ever arrives in the 10 minute box, and STICK WITH THE JOBS. Someone needs to have control of the horse (we always try and have the person the horse is most comfortable with as it can be a high stress atmosphere). One or two people should be in charge of washing and scraping, and, if there are enough people, someone should be in charge of the rider (either the coach, an SO or a friend, as long as they aren't going to add to the rider's nerves).

Our rule is always DON'T BOTHER THE RIDER. Stick with your job, and keep an eye on the time. The rider's job is to take a breath, think about the course, get a snack or a drink (or throw up :lol:), and have any last minute advice from the coach. NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO SAY HOW THE COURSE IS RIDING. At this point in time, the rider should have a plan and should be very confident with their plan. We NEVER say, oh a fence is riding badly, etc, as we don't want them to worry about it, change their plan, and ride less confidently. A good example of this was a few years ago the boss had a student at a one star. A particular fence was not riding great, but he kept his mouth shut, reminded his rider of her plan. Meanwhile, a friend of the the rider was being frightened by her panicked family who tells her the fence is riding horribly! The boss' rider jumped around clear, the other rider did not. Obviously, each rider and coach need to do what's best, but our rule of leaving the rider alone really seems to work.

Good luck to your mom and you all! We'll be around on xc day. Hoping for beautiful but cool weather!

[GotSpots]

Our rule is always DON'T BOTHER THE RIDER. Stick with your job, and keep an eye on the time. The rider's job is to take a breath, think about the course, get a snack or a drink (or throw up :lol:), and have any last minute advice from the coach. NO ONE IS ALLOWED TO SAY HOW THE COURSE IS RIDING. What she said. Because if the bubble wrap surrounding the beast does its job and the stars align, I'll be the one looking suspiciously green next week, and as a bonafide subscriber to the kick-and-pray school of XC, I would much appreciate it if no one decides to tell me that Fence whatever is causing some small degree of unpleasantness.

[Jazzy Lady]

Attend the meetings with your riders. Often at a * they will give a bit of a "D box demo" which can be really helpful, and they will cover things in mandatory meeting. Bring a blanket to put all your stuff on so you know what is your "station". You can bring everything you need up there pretty early usually.

They should also assign a "timer" to each rider that will let you know how much time you have.

[EventerAJ]

Re-posted from May, 2008:

A Lost Art: Grooming at a REAL Three-Day

I was competing at VA 3D/HT this weekend, riding in the horse trial. I agreed to “help out” in the 10-min box, and offered a few pointers to the Groom Friday night. I should have been a little worried when I had to explain the purpose/contents of the “steeplechase bucket,” but I knew this groom had ridden one CCI* full-format (YRs a few yrs ago), and has done multiple short two-stars. Additionally, two other riders/grooms in our group had ridden a couple one-stars (though I think SC was cancelled for them?). Point being, they all had three-day experience and seemed capable. It did strike me as troubling when they admitted “we haven’t brought the pitchfork to the box yet.” What?! “Well, we brought the muck tub, but we had buckets in it and we didn’t take the fork. That’s why the muck tub is there, right, to pick up poop so the horse doesn’t step in it in the Box?” Trying not to laugh too hard, I explained that the muck tub was for ice water, not excrement…!


Saturday morning, I offered to go early to the 10min box and fill the buckets with ice water, since the Groom was following the horse from A to B to C. I was a bit annoyed when I arrived to find none of the gear laid out, but I set it up for them. I put down the tarp and started methodically placing the extra equipment and necessities, only to end up with a LOT of empty space on the tarp… many things missing. Important things, like extra whip, spare gloves, our own thermometer, extra reins…. I had been dropped off at the Box, had no transportation back to the barns, and had limited time before the horse started on A and the Groom left. I had no way of getting all those missing items, all I could do was PRAY that we didn’t need them! The groom was totally unaware that such things were needed for the Box. (I don’t completely blame the groom, though…it’s the RIDER’S responsibility to have all things prepared.)

Luckily everything was fine, and we didn’t need any of the missing stuff. But, it made me aware of the skills and knowledge needed to groom for a REAL three-day. I won’t get on the soapbox about LF vs SF in relation to horses and riders; it really hit me though, how our next generation of grooms (some riders-to-be) will be missing the experience of working The Box. It takes incredible preparation—all the extra equipment, the organization, time management, and choreography of a team. It takes focus, the ability to handle pressure and stress, while remaining completely calm for the sake of the horse, the rider, and the rest of the team.


For a groom, there is no comparison to a real three-day. It’s such a rush, an adrenaline high, for those 10 minutes—get that horse in, TPR, check shoes, halter on, stirrups up, loosen the girth, weave through traffic to your pre-determined station, towel on the saddle, reins to the ears, sponge and scrape and walk, sponge and scrape and walk (big circles not small ones!), change studs if needed, minute-four TPR and jog, back to station, sponge and walk, scrape, “TWO-MINUTES!” do up the girth, overgirth, check the noseband, towel the reins, rider up, rubber glove, leg grease shoulder to ground, stifle to ground, “ONE-MINUTE!” rider leaves, take a breath and cheer. It’s such an accomplishment to work as a team, get that horse down and send him out to run the course of his life.

I saw more confusion, and general lack of understanding than I expected that Saturday morning. Yes I know it’s a one-star; at this level it’s many riders’ or grooms’ first time, and you gotta learn somewhere! But there seemed to be less experience than ever. Used to be, there was still a lot more “been there-done that” from a coach, or among the riders and grooms—one to exhibit a feeling of calm assurance per team. Looking around the Box, I felt very lonely and almost antiquated… to sooo many riders/grooms/helpers around me, it was their very first time and they had no clue. (Again, some degree of cluelessness is standard for CCI*, but this was more).

I don’t profess to be a master three-day groom. Actually, I’ve only groomed at 3 long formats, since 2001 (and competed two, myself), and at least four short-formats (riding in two more). But I was very, very well “schooled” in the process of Endurance Day—my (very experienced) rider made darn sure I knew every small detail of preparation and execution of our plan. I dearly miss the long format three-day… not just from the saddle, but from the ground in the 10-minute box. We’re losing horsemanship with the loss of the long-format. God Bless Brian and Penny Ross for all their effort to host the VA CCI*, it is so important for so many reasons.


And for anyone out there hoping to do a long format, please keep supporting it! Go and groom first, for an experienced rider if you can, so you have a good idea of what to expect. That’s the best way to prepare… that way you can be there for *your* grooms!

For any potential grooms out there, here’s my personal Endurance Day list of stuff. Keep in mind every rider has a few particular items they like/don’t like, but these things have served me well: (please feel free to add… I may have missed something off the top of my head!)

STEEPLECHASE BUCKET: (to travel With Groom Following Horse, will go to Box)
-Halter (numbered) with lead rope, chain shank if your horse is rank
-Rag
-Water (bottle for rider)
-Extra shoes (WITH STUDS IN, prepared Fri night, know L/R, F/H)
-Duct tape
-Electrical tape
-Hoof pick
-Sponge/scraper (for possible C-halt)
-Vetwrap (optional)
-Extra studs (copies of what you use, maybe something diff if rider chooses), wrench
I like to carry the extra studs in a small baggie, with wrench, in my pocket

10-MINUTE BOX: (label and/or stripe EVERYTHING)
-Large tarp, to place everything on
-At least 4 buckets, 5 to 6 is better (one for drinking); muck tub
-2 quart-size pitchers, for pouring water on horse (better than sponges for immediate cooldown!)
-At least 2 sponges and 2 scrapers
-Appropriate clothing: irish knit, scrim, thermatex
-Several large towels and rags
-Halter (numbered) and lead rope
-Chain shank (even if you think you won’t need it)
-Chair (for rider)
-Water/gatorade (for rider)
-Boot jack, boot pulls
-Hole punch
-Powder
-Grease (and rubber gloves!)
-Electrical tape
-Duct tape
-Stud kit (you may leave this at the barn, if multiple horses competing, but be sure to have spare stud options!)
-Stick spray/saddle tite
-Woof boots (for walking horse home)

-Extra gear:
>Bridle (fitted to horse, with similar bit; or different, if rider prone to bit-change)
>Girth (make sure it fits!)
>Overgirth
>Martingale
>Breastplate
>Reins (unattached to spare bridle)
>Stirrup and leather (usually just pull it off the dressage saddle)
>Boots (horse) front and hind, bell boots
>Helmet
>Gloves
>Whip
>Watch
First aid:
>Bandaids
>Triple antibiotic
>Eye drops, saline, esp if rider wears contacts (extras!)
>Aluspray/wound dressing
>Bandage, wrap, gauze
>Vetwrap (2+ rolls), diaper/hoof boot (lost shoe)
>Thermometer (don’t *always* trust the vet’s!)
>Electrolyte paste (optional)
>Stethoscope (optional)
>Alcohol (optional, add to ice water for evaporation cooling)

[Highflyer]

AJ, hopefully we won't be that bad! :) My sister and I both came up through PC, and our combined training rally was run very much like a SF three day, complete with extra equipment box, jogs, vet box after xc, etc. Plus we played polocrosse, and I worked at a racing stable, so we have a lot of experience cooling horses out, between us.

[Jazzy Lady]

Another extra that most people don't have, but could be handy is a spare watch. My battery went dead on mine in the middle of steeplechase so I had no clue of my time. Luckily my coach ran and got me his while I was on C, but it would have been great to have on B!!!

[tlw]

Sorry if this is totally off the wall, but should one pay attention to regularly changing the diagonal when trotting during A and C? Does it make a difference to the horse (i.e., balance, etc.)?

[EventerAJ]

Sorry if this is totally off the wall, but should one pay attention to regularly changing the diagonal when trotting during A and C? Does it make a difference to the horse (i.e., balance, etc.)?


I spend more than half the time in gallop position, so I never pay much attention to my diagonal. I tend to be on the outside diagonal through any turns, just from habit, but it doesn't matter much. If you spend the whole 20 minutes on one, it might make a difference. I suppose you could change every Km, or every 5 minutes if you wanted. It probably depends on how your horse is conditioned; how often to you change diagonals on your trot sets at home?

I vary my trot sets a bit: 5 minutes posting, then 5+ minutes posting w/o stirrups, a few minutes sitting, and the rest in gallop position. I use the endless trotting to make *me* stronger, too! I'm most relaxed in gallop position, resting on the bridge, so that's what I use in competition (or for multiple horses on the day).

[pegasusmom]

Highflyer - e-mail coming your way!

[crittertwitter]

Wow, this has been a great thread, great references, etc. I'm doing the same - never groomed at a long format before and I'm feeling totally overwhelmed. Well, more like worried I'll miss or forget something.

Here are some questions and I'm sorry if they were answered in one of the threads or I'm overanalyzing and losing the concept... some of this is intuitive common sense, but I'm getting neurotic.

Q1: Are there limitations on the kind of linament we can use? e.g. are there any medications in Absorbine that are prohibited? Should we apply it directly to the legs or just add it to the water buckets? If we apply it directly to the legs before the grease, could that cause blistering?

Q2: Between steeplechase and C, should we stop our horse and sponge and scrape a couple of times?

Q3: Someone mentioned a large muck bucket for ice water? Is this in addition to the 4 buckets of ice water to have at the 10 min box?

Q4: Is there usually a good water source near the 10 minute box?

Q5: How much ice should we have on hand for the 4 water buckets at the 10 min box?

Q6: Some say the rider jogs the horse before mounting to go XC. Others say the groom jogs and then the rider comes over and mounts. This doesn't seem to matter, but will we be prompted by the vet/tech to jog a final time? And does it matter whether it is the rider who jogs or the groom?

Q7: How many holes do you loosen the girth at the 10 min box? We were thinking just one... Is it common practice to reset the saddle at the 10 min box or only if you see it has slipped back? Or even if it doesn't appear to have slipped?

Q8: They're calling for temps in the 70s/partly sunny - sunny. Should we use a cooler?

Q9: What's a good temp range when they first get to the 10 min box? What is an acceptable/good temp at the end of the 10 mins and before they head out for XC?

Q10: Can you think of any red flags? If the vet notes a red flag in vitals when the horse first gets back to the 10 min box, will they let us know?

OK, this is getting long! Sorry!

Ooops... I'm getting confused about preps/differences between C Hold and 10 min box... some say rider just trots by and you check equipment between steeplechase and final trot. And some seem to make great prep for this. What's the best prep for the horse?

[GotSpots]

Wow, this has been a great thread, great references, etc. I'm doing the same - never groomed at a long format before and I'm feeling totally overwhelmed. Well, more like worried I'll miss or forget something.

Rule 1: Do not panic or stress out. Your rider needs you to be calm. The folks near you in the barn need you to be calm. Almost everything can be worked out one way or the other, and even if you forget something, it's 95% of the time manageable. Take a deep breath. Done right, the box is a very calm place.

Q1: Are there limitations on the kind of linament we can use? e.g. are there any medications in Absorbine that are prohibited? Should we apply it directly to the legs or just add it to the water buckets? If we apply it directly to the legs before the grease, could that cause blistering? Yes, there are limits on what kinds of liniment you can use. Vetrolin is a no-no. In the relatively cool weather this weekend, our 10 minute boxes will not have liniment in them: we just use water/ice, sponge and scrape. I would not put liniment on legs before they go out on XC regardless.

Q2: Between steeplechase and C, should we stop our horse and sponge and scrape a couple of times? Only if there is a C hold/C assistance area. Unless you are within a designated place, you cannot assist your rider (except to hand up dropped eyeglasses) without giving unauthorized assistance. In general, after chase unless it's really warm, we often check shoes, hand the rider a water bottle, and may do a couple rounds of water/scrape if the horse is blowing, but last couple years at Morven everyone's been fine with just a pat on the neck and a sip of water if they'll drink.

Q3: Someone mentioned a large muck bucket for ice water? Is this in addition to the 4 buckets of ice water to have at the 10 min box? No, the large muck bucket is for icing legs back at the barn. If your horse will stand in it, it's a really good/easy way to ice legs and feet after XC.

Q4: Is there usually a good water source near the 10 minute box? Yes. Usually a water truck/big trough to dunk buckets in.

Q5: How much ice should we have on hand for the 4 water buckets at the 10 min box? They bring ice there and put it near the water truck. I usually use the equivalent of a bag split between four-five buckets unless it's really warm. The idea is to keep the water cold, but you don't need to overdo it (remember you are sloshing water on the horse and scraping it off just as you slosh it to encourage evaporation).

Q6: Some say the rider jogs the horse before mounting to go XC. Others say the groom jogs and then the rider comes over and mounts. This doesn't seem to matter, but will we be prompted by the vet/tech to jog a final time? And does it matter whether it is the rider who jogs or the groom? Doesn't matter who jogs the horse - whoever can run fast enough to make the horse look right. Yes, the vet/tech will prompt you, but keep an eye on them and ask as necessary - I want mine to jog if necessary no later than 6-7 minutes in, if possible so I have lots of time to get the rider back up and everything adjusted.

Q7: How many holes do you loosen the girth at the 10 min box? We were thinking just one... Is it common practice to reset the saddle at the 10 min box or only if you see it has slipped back? Or even if it doesn't appear to have slipped? I loosen a couple of holes, and reset the saddle only if I need to. I do not take off breastplate, or undo saddle pads. Be careful if you have one that tends to bloat that you give yourself enough time to re-adjust and re-tighten girth, and to snug up the overgirth if you are using one.

Q8: They're calling for temps in the 70s/partly sunny - sunny. Should we use a cooler? Only if you need it. We'll bring one with us, but I would be surprised if it goes on the beast.

Q9: What's a good temp range when they first get to the 10 min box? What is an acceptable/good temp at the end of the 10 mins and before they head out for XC? Depends on the horse. Not unusual to see a 103/104 temp, again, particularly in hot, humid weather (the latter and I would be icing/scraping pretty aggressively). 101/102 and you're pretty happy with them.

Q10: Can you think of any red flags? If the vet notes a red flag in vitals when the horse first gets back to the 10 min box, will they let us know? If the horse is limping, that's a red flag. If you see blood anywhere, that's a red flag. A horse that's not sweating is a red flag. A particularly high temp - especially on a cool day, ditto. Things you might not notice: the vet will flag if there's some sort of weird arrthymia going on or if the horse is labored in its breathing.


Ooops... I'm getting confused about preps/differences between C Hold and 10 min box... some say rider just trots by and you check equipment between steeplechase and final trot. And some seem to make great prep for this. What's the best prep for the horse? Again, depends on the day/horse. If the horse is hot, and they give you a C hold, you want to get their temp down. If the horse is fine and happy and puffed up with himself, give him a drink, slosh him a few times with water and ice, and send him on his way.

You're going to do great. Don't stress.

[crittertwitter]

Whew! Thanks, GotSpots! Great posts on the other threads, too. Invaluable info! :yes:

[Watermark Farm]

Hi, I groomed for a lot of young riders doing full format events during my college years, and I have to agree that "The Event Groom's Handbook" is a wonderful reference.

I assisted some experienced grooms in the endurance phases before working on my own, and that experience was essential, so many little tips and tricks that made everything work smoothly. Perhaps you can connect with someone with more experience and tag along as the "grunt" groom at some point?

Good luck in advance to you mom. She is lucky to have her daughters helping her!