When a friend takes advantage . .Dec Update pg 3

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

and stiffs you on board and hay, what do you do? I've been boarding a friends horses for a few months for pasture only (no hay included) until October and getting paid each month has been a struggle. This month the payment never came, hay hasn't been purchased etc. I just keep getting excuses and lies and now emails/messages won't be returned.

They are supposed to be leave by the 1st and all fees settled but in my heart I don't believe it's going to happen. It's eating me apart and I'm tired of crying over it. I'm a single mom with 4 of my own to take care of and I feel so betrayed. I've already fed them 35 bales of my own homegrown hay and only have 3 more left. I can't afford to go spend $15 a bale on hay to feed 3 horses that aren't mine, one of which is pregnant.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I've really lost faith and feel like a friendship has been lost due to this. :( I've been keeping it to myself for weeks and didn't want to air my dirty laundry, but some insight would be greatly appreciated. I never believed she would do this to me, or to the neighbors who provided breeding services to her.

:sadsmile:

[FlightCheck]

You have learned the unfortunate lesson that friends and business don't work.

Has she been coming out to see them, or have they been more or less "dumped" on you?

Check your state's laws. In my state, you cannot hold a horse for unpaid bills - if the horse is abandoned unto you, there is a legal process you must go through.

If she has been coming out, you must confront her - even if the thought makes you want to hurl.

Good luck - so sorry that this has happened.

[Hazelnut]

Send an email and leave a phone message. OR say this if you see friend.

"I have no hay left to feed your horses between now and October 1 when they are moving. And I have no $$ to buy hay. You owe me XXX (what you will pay to replace the hay you've fed) for the hay I have provided. Please provide your own hay immediately or move your horses early."

Easier said than done...but what else can you do? :( You're stuck. :confused:

Good luck!

[appaloosalady]

I sooooo feel your pain. I have a 3 yr old filly on my farm that belongs to a friend of my daughter. Her owners have decided that she isn't "fun" anymore and don't want her anymore. They haven't paid board in 2 months. I think they are waiting for ME to find a buyer for her and take my back board out of her sale price. Any idea how well unbroke 3 yr olds are selling in MI right now? I have a couple of people that I know I could give her to, but I can't do it without her owners signing her over to me first. In the meantime, she is eating my hay, grain, etc. without paying for it.

I have learned my lesson - trying to be nice to people, when it comes to boarding their horses, usually ends up biting you in the a$$. I wish you the best of luck with your situation - it stinks.

[BuddyRoo]

I dunno...not all "friend" boarding deals go south. I board at a friend's place and I pay my board.

They're obviously in a tight spot. And they're probably ashamed and just trying to ignore a problem that is not going to go away.


I think if I were in your shoes, I would try a slightly different approach. The guilt trip.

IE: via email "Dear friend--I can't imagine what kind of tight spot you're in right now but I can only assume it's really stressing you out because I haven't heard from you at all. Look, I'm not mad, I don't hate you. It's just that I'm a single mom with 4 of my own to feed and I cannot afford to feed yours. I simply can't. It's not that I don't WANT to help you out in that way, I just don't have the money. I'm afraid your horses are going to start going down hill now that the pasture is drying up. I've already supplemented them with my hay--and now I'm out. I can't buy them anymore. Really. I have no more money.

You've got to come and get them or bring some hay. Or bring some money. Something. Otherwise, in order to protect my own and myself, I'm going to have to start legal proceedings. I don't WANT to. Lord, I don't want to. But I am going to have to go there because I can't feed them and I don't want to see horses starve.

Please call me. Email me. Bring hay. Come get the horses. Whatever. But I cannot feed them."

And then, check out your state laws for stable liens and start the paperwork.

[Woodland]

This has happened too me so many times :sigh: Here is what I say:

I value our friendship enough that I want you to move your horses to another barn immediately. The finances of me keeping your horses for you will pull our friendship apart, and I do not want that.


Remember Never Ever subsidies someone else's hobbie EVER!

[RockinHorse]

First of all I think you have to realise this person is not your friend. If they were your friend they would at least try to communicate with you.

Since you two were friendly at one time, I assume you know where this person lives. I would not rely on email and voice mail, I would go to their house and try to speak to them in person. It is one thing for this person to ignore emails and screen calls, it is nother thing to ignore someone on the doorstep.

[chai]

It's sad to say, but I think Rockinghorse is right. A person who would take advantage of you, especially in your situation as a single Mom trying to make it on your own, is not a friend. This is the type of situation where you will see a person's true colors, and it sounds like your 'boarder' is a taker.

I think you should send her a registered letter demanding payment and making it clear that the horses will not be allowed to leave the property unless all bills are paid in full.

I had a boarder who was so up against if financially that she sometimes paid me in dollar bills and change, and my board was only $150 a month. She was often late but she always paid. I think you should ask your boarder to give you some $$ immediately as a show of good faith that she doesn't expect you to feed her horses out of your pocket.

Be prepared, though. Intuition is a powerful thing and if you have a bad feeling about this boarder, you are probably right.

Best of luck to you.

[audgesmom]

and I am walking away from the co-op I established after 3 years of trying to make it affordable for my friends to keep their horses.....I am so relieved to give notice to my land owner, dissolve the contract and walk away with my sanity sort of in tact....I am out a lot of money ..and I am too nice....I will go to rough board with a friend and NEVER NEVER NEVER be late...I have been on the receiving end...and would never do that to a friend.....

[deltawave]

Next time ask for a deposit up front that will cover a month or two of upkeep, and get something in writing that states you will assume ownership of the horse in the event that bills are not paid for ____ months.

Does she have a fenced yard? I'd take the horse and tie it to her back porch, as long as you know she's home. :)

ETA that it's not YOUR actions that have led to the loss of this "friendship". This lady is no friend of yours, and it's none of your doing.

[Wanderluster]

I find it completely despicable for a "friend" to assume that you are able and willing to feed her horses. How tough is your hide? You might have to lock up her assets until she has made financial restitution. I would not allow the horses to leave until she has given you a either a cash/money order for the costs that you have incurred.
It is not the time to be emotional, you have a family to provide for, and taking advantage of your kindness does not replace the hay and grain that you have fed to her animals. Develop your spine, you'll need it as your children get older. Sorry if this sounds harsh, my experience has taught me to take care of family first and friends later, AND I choose my friends carefully.:)

[fitzwilliam]

So sorry this happened to you, - document everything you can, take photos of her horses in you place with dates and check your small claims court regulations or talk to a lawyer friend. I agree this person is not your true friend! I was in a coop boarding situation for over 8 years with the same people and other than a few minor tiffs never had anything this ugly. Good Luck and don't lose your faith in everyone because of this.

[Hilltopfarmva]

In most states you cannot prevent the horses from being moved without a lien filed and that takes about three days, through an equine attorney. Plus, you have to give the owners notice you are going to file a lien, hence the three days. So, that gives the owners three days to move their horses. I have been through this with friends (not anymore) and people who have boarded here. I send a registered letter of my intent to file a warrant in debt and a lien, in my boarding contract it states that, but I send it out in writing anyway. If they pay and move their horses, great. If not, we go to court. I win if they show up, if they don't show up and don't ever pay your only satisfaction is that a judgment will be filed and it will screw up their credit. Sorry you are going through this, but most of us who board any horses, whether one or one hundred, we end up with a few who just don't pay. Good luck! Sarah

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

I have been feeling really guilty about posting this and was going to delete it tonite. Unfortunately I'm one of those people who wears my heart on my sleeve. :( Your support and similar situations (though I'm sorry you had to go through them too) are a bit comforting. I've pointed out the situation to the owner several times - need hay, need farrier, etc. She knows money is tight and I've reminded her several times. It doesn't make a difference. I feel pretty pathetic that now I just cry in frustration. I do have boarding paperwork that states I can do a lien and I hate to do it but this isn't fair. I pointed that out to her this week as well and she didn't reply.

I think the hardest part in all this is being lied to. I'm one of those people who will go out of my way for people in my life. But don't ever lie to me. I know how it is to be low on funds and scraping to get by. But I have NEVER skimped on board when I used to board and my horses never did without. I would go without before my horses would. I'm not a boarding facility - we got our own place 2 years ago and I had room to help out so I did. And it's all come to haunt me. Even with my neighbor I've told my friend several times to "at least make a good faith payment!" but its either that the check was lost in the mail or its ignored. They haven't heard from her in months and are owed a few thousand. I feel guilty every time I am there to hang out. They even said they didn't picture her being like this and especially not doing this to me. It pisses me off when I see pics of her new horse she's sharing on the internet while I'm sitting here waiting for the others to be paid for.

Can somebody please pull the SUCKER sign off my back now?? :o

[genevieveg17]

and stiffs you on board and hay, what do you do? I've been boarding a friends horses for a few months for pasture only (no hay included) until October and getting paid each month has been a struggle. This month the payment never came, hay hasn't been purchased etc. I just keep getting excuses and lies and now emails/messages won't be returned.

They are supposed to be leave by the 1st and all fees settled but in my heart I don't believe it's going to happen. It's eating me apart and I'm tired of crying over it. I'm a single mom with 4 of my own to take care of and I feel so betrayed. I've already fed them 35 bales of my own homegrown hay and only have 3 more left. I can't afford to go spend $15 a bale on hay to feed 3 horses that aren't mine, one of which is pregnant.

I just don't know what to do anymore. I've really lost faith and feel like a friendship has been lost due to this. :( I've been keeping it to myself for weeks and didn't want to air my dirty laundry, but some insight would be greatly appreciated. I never believed she would do this to me, or to the neighbors who provided breeding services to her.

:sadsmile:

I am sorry you are going through this FHH. I hope it gets resolved soon. Hopefully a little public humiliation will result in some action.

[gieriscm]

File the lien and be done with it. The sooner this is behind you, the sooner you can stop stressing over it. Do you have a boarding contract with your friend?

Also, I find it interesting that your friend can afford internet access, and probably a cell phone, but can't come up with the $$$ to feed her horse. Priorities...

Also, you have no reason to feel guilty. You have done nothing wrong, other than not being independently wealthy so you can support your friend's horse habit... ;)

[amdfarm]

Also sorry you are going through this. I went through it once and that was enough. My so-called friend (no longer) kept her horse w/ me for many months, including some winter months. After a couple months of not paying and basically disappearing w/out a trace, I called her mom and "tattled" on her grown daughter for not taking care of her horse/board. (She was also in the process of making payments on a new horse, a coming yearling, but couldn't pay for the one she already had!!) She baled her daughter out and the horse was moved not long after that. :D

Good luck and if all else fails, call her parents!! ;)

[deltawave]

I think the hardest part in all this is being lied to. I'm one of those people who will go out of my way for people in my life. But don't ever lie to me

This is not your fault. You have a good heart, but a thin skin. There are far worse flaws. :) File the lien, thicken your skin, and remind yourself you're doing no wrong.

[cdalt]

I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this. I, too, have allowed myself to be taken advantage of by a former "friend" who boarded with me many years ago and never again! I think that you need to confront her in person (go to her home, as some others suggested) and tell her that, if the horses are not moved by October 1st, you will file a lien on them. This may motivate her to get them off your property (and feed bill). I'd be surprised if you can recoup what she owes you, but at least the problem won't be ongoing. Chalk it up to a hard learned life lesson (as most of them are) and move on.
P.S. Hope Aiden is getting better - keep me posted.

[Woodland]

Can somebody please pull the SUCKER sign off my back now?? :o

Usually I am the one who is wearing it. Sorry it got pinned on you. My Husband is always saying "Woody" pull your spin out of the closet and wear it today - PLEASE! I just hate being a doormat, but on the other hand I want to believe that all people are good and have good intentions. I mean I know that is wrong, I just wish a spade would be a spade would be a spade and my faith would be intact. :(

[smilton]

I know the feeling. A "person" has now had a horse at my house for 9 months but has not paid board, supplied feed or cared for horse for the past 4 months (was late on all previous months). Still wants to be chummy. Have been asking "person" to move horse for 2 months with no action taken. Finally calls back this week to say she is moving 15hrs away but has yet to figure out what to do with horse. @#^@#$%!!!!!
This is a horse with chronic lamenss issues and a hard keeping TB. Just Great. But majically she can afford to go on trips. @#$#@$!!!

[lizathenag]

Can somebody please pull the SUCKER sign off my back now?? :o

Only you can pull off that sign (and not put it back on!)

I am so sorry for your situation. It sucks.

[sfstable]

It pisses me off when I see pics of her new horse she's sharing on the internet while I'm sitting here waiting for the others to be paid for.

Can somebody please pull the SUCKER sign off my back now?? :o

From this comment do you mean she has a new horse at a different facility ?

Looks like she has dumped the "unwanted" ones off with you because she knows that you will take care of them. You really do need to send her certified notice to remove her horses so that you can begin the process of putting a lien on them. By all means, do not feel guilty about doing this -- you are not the one who created this course of action.

She is no longer your friend !!

[clint]

FHH, I'm so sorry you are going through this. Unfortunately, since this has been going on for a month, I think you should file the lien. At least then you will be able to proceed if no payment or hay is forthcoming. The only time I ever got in this situation the owner agreed her horse needed to be sold and I found a buyer, who paid me the money owed me and the balance to the seller. In this economy, with that many horses and that owner, that is probably not an option. If you have filed the lien, you can proceed quickly.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

Just thought I’d post an update. The horses left on October 2nd. It turns out I knew the hauler when he arrived to get them. I was surprised he was hauling them as he’d been stiffed by her the last time he hauled one up here for breeding. He’d lost the check and called to get another one that was never sent again (4 months ago). He said she was supposed to pay him cash when he got there with the horses or they weren’t getting off the trailer and he’d drop them off at the local TB rescue. Board was sent via Paypal eCheck on September 30th and of course it’s not clearing the bank. This is the second month in a row this has happened and why I’d said if it was coming paypal it needed to be done via credit card so payment was immediate.

I’m hurt and angry that [she] would do this to me. So much for the benefit of the doubt. I provided care and services and got ripped off. My boyfriend said he knew the payment wouldn’t clear and she was just playing a con game with us. All her broodmares are up for free lease now. I know there aren’t papers on one of them as she never paid the owner for the mare so they are holding the JC papers. Several people sent me PMs and have had this same experience with this person in the past. I wish I’d known and not been such a sucker.

I keep waiting for the morals and conscience to kick in and the bills to be settled up. :cry:

[FindersKeepers]

So sorry you were in that spot! At least they are gone now.

I board my retired mare with a good friend...and I am MORE attentive to making sure everything is taken care of on time because it's a friend. I guess some people are just programmed to take advantage. I feel like I'm taking advantage by giving her what she wants in exchange for board, so I always try to do extra.

I feel so blessed to have the perfect retirement home for my girl, and to be asked only to feed and do stalls a few days a week in exchange, and to be able to trust that she has the best of care...the thought of purposely stiffing her, or not putting in my time, makes me sick.

[gieriscm]

Just thought I’d post an update. The horses left on October 2nd. It turns out I knew the hauler when he arrived to get them. I was surprised he was hauling them as he’d been stiffed by her the last time he hauled one up here for breeding. He’d lost the check and called to get another one that was never sent again (4 months ago). He said she was supposed to pay him cash when he got there with the horses or they weren’t getting off the trailer and he’d drop them off at the local TB rescue. Board was sent via Paypal eCheck on September 30th and of course it’s not clearing the bank.

This should not have surprised you. In fact, I don't know why in the world anyone would se PP these days since it's too easy to get stiffed (but that's another thread...). Your shipper is the savvy business man and demanded cash before the horses got off the trailer. You needed to demand cash before the horses left the property.

My boyfriend said he knew the payment wouldn’t clear and she was just playing a con game with us.

Your boyfriend is a smart and wise man.

Several people sent me PMs and have had this same experience with this person in the past. I wish I’d known and not been such a sucker.

Knowing in advance is one thing, and if I were feeling truly vindictive I'd contact the new BO (I'm sure the shipper can tell you where he took her horses) and let her know that she's got a potential deadbeat in the barn based on the deadbeat's documented history. As for not being a sucker again, that's your responsibility in the future.

I keep waiting for the morals and conscience to kick in and the bills to be settled up. :cry:

You'll be waiting a looooooooooong time.

[findeight]

Yeah...never happen. And demanding cash before the horse leaves when you really want it gone can be counter productive to getting it off the property and result in it staying longer at your expense. Good riddence.

I did have a friend like that and she got me TWICE before I got smart-and tough. Once when I leased a private barn and she joined me in a "co-op". Her definition was different then mine-I did the work and she never showed up when it was her turn...never bought any food knowing I'd feel sorry for the beast. I had a month to month lease on then place that was not going well with the residents in the house so terminated it and hauled my horse out of there.

The other time she conned me into going to pick up a horse at a "bad" barn and never bothered sharing she was 3 months behind in the board and never bought the horse-now THAT was complicated.

These deadbeats know exactly what they are doing and know how to manipulate witth no regrets or second thoughts.

[europa]

I have a situation where I have allowed a friend to keep a horse free of charge for 2 years. I know I am an idiot. Her horse is not riding sound so now she wants to dump him on me because gas is too expensive. First it was you can have him (no thanks I have enough of my own) then it was I can only come out 2 times a week and clean his stall just throw him in the pasture with the mares. The only reason the horse is at my house is to keep my gelding company. Anyway, long story short she is going to have the horse put down. She asks me to call the vet and have him put him down when he brings the fall shots. NOPE.....then she asked if I asked the vet how much it will cost? Can you imagine. Oh, and she asked if my Dad will bury her horse. NOPE.

The whole time she is talking about buying and breeding dogs. GO FIGURE.

[ExJumper]

The whole time she is talking about buying and breeding dogs. GO FIGURE.

Don't you read Fugly Horse? The crazies ALWAYS breed dogs, too...

[Blonde Filly]

Just thought I’d post an update. The horses left on October 2nd. It turns out I knew the hauler when he arrived to get them. I was surprised he was hauling them as he’d been stiffed by her the last time he hauled one up here for breeding. He’d lost the check and called to get another one that was never sent again (4 months ago). He said she was supposed to pay him cash when he got there with the horses or they weren’t getting off the trailer and he’d drop them off at the local TB rescue. Board was sent via Paypal eCheck on September 30th and of course it’s not clearing the bank. This is the second month in a row this has happened and why I’d said if it was coming paypal it needed to be done via credit card so payment was immediate.

I’m hurt and angry that [she] would do this to me. So much for the benefit of the doubt. I provided care and services and got ripped off. My boyfriend said he knew the payment wouldn’t clear and she was just playing a con game with us. All her broodmares are up for free lease now. I know there aren’t papers on one of them as she never paid the owner for the mare so they are holding the JC papers. Several people sent me PMs and have had this same experience with this person in the past. I wish I’d known and not been such a sucker.

I keep waiting for the morals and conscience to kick in and the bills to be settled up. :cry:

I'm so sorry that you got ripped off, but considering the source I'm not surprised at all. The funny part is this person is always talking about this and that mare she is breeding when in fact she never pays for the mares, nor their care...but yet she goes around giving all kinds of advise to stallion owners and mare owners on showing there mares and stallions and how they need to have xyz for their show record before she breeds to them. And yet I've not seen any of her horses shown at all..oh that might be because she still has an outstanding bill from over 10 years ago...just check out usef site yourself. I'm also very sad that the Mods won't allow the name of the person to be left up so all will know and be fore warned. I doubt you will ever see your money from this crook who also served time in jail for stealing from a tack shop in CA as well.

Again sorry you got hooked by this crook! :mad:

[Dressage-ryder]

Been there done that.... I have found people like this aren't friends. They use you and then you get to kick them out. I am sorry for what you went through- having been there I know how hard it can be.People who do this are not worth the time.... they are just a constant drain.

Hugs to you.

[tkhawk]

Well at least the good part is that she is out and you are free of her!

[Blonde Filly]

Been there done that.... I have found people like this aren't friends. They use you and then you get to kick them out. I am sorry for what you went through- having been there I know how hard it can be.People who do this are not worth the time.... they are just a constant drain.

Hugs to you.

Dressage-ryder, please do tell us your story...minus name..so sorry this happened to you as well. FHH had the same person who ripped her off on board, is also who ripped you off as well on a mare sale! :mad: Too bad names are not allowed.

She is a "bad egg!"

[PalominoMorgan]

If you have a contract or even a month or two of checks or receipts where she paid you file with small claims court. If you just want to be done with her then let it go. If you want to try to get your money back pay the tiny fee and file with small claims court. Even without a contract if she did pay you a few times it could demonstate an oral contract. Any copies of emails or voicemails you have save them. Anything that demonstrates she acknowledged her debts to you.

[findeight]

Small claims is just going to get you a judgement against her...which you have to pay to serve her with and she is probably just going to blow off.

It is not worth it unless you want the revenge of having it on her records. Even then, she likely already has bad credit and judgements she never acknowledges. No point and it's just going to keep you involved with her crap even longer.

Just walk away and don't let it poison you.

[lcw579]

Dressage-ryder, please do tell us your story...minus name..so sorry this happened to you as well. FHH had the same person who ripped her off on board, is also who ripped you off as well on a mare sale! :mad: Too bad names are not allowed.

She is a "bad egg!"

Well, if you really want to name names you can always throw her under the bus. It sure sounds like she deserves it. People need to be warned about her since she seems to be quite the accomplished con artist!

[Moderator 1]

Any under-bus throws are not going to happen on this site--what folks do on other sites is not our jurisdiction.

Generally, posters can ask for input here on situations where questionable legal or ethical issues are involved--when names are not given. This thread will be closed or removed if further attempts are made to draw out or allude to the identity of the individuals involved.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[grayfox]

I thought that since her felony criminal record was public record that we could name names?

[lcw579]

Sorry Mod 1, I was making a suggestion to post elsewhere where naming names is permissable, should have capitalized to make it clear. Not encouraging rule breaking here. Mea Culpa!

[Blonde Filly]

Sorry Mod 1, I was making a suggestion to post elsewhere where naming names is permissable, should have capitalized to make it clear. Not encouraging rule breaking here. Mea Culpa!

I knew what you meant...you were referring to horseshowspy.com and they have a BB called Under The Bus...that would be a perfect place and I did get it lcw579.

Grayfox I believe under Erin the past Mod it was allowed if public record and proved that they were tried and convicted in a court of law, but under the new management...I don't think it is alllowed here anymore...which is probably a good thing and a better place like above mentioned site or the kitty cat box for such things.

With this horrible economy I'm sure more and more of this type of thing will be happening to barn owners...very sad for the horse involved! :no:

[grayfox]

Thanks Blonde Filly. I'm sorry your having such a bad time FHH, I'm unfortunately not surprised. I hope it works out in the end.

[nightsong]

Please realize that they are not your friend. They are a thief and liar and, someone who does not look out for their horses. You don't want that for a friend, anyway, do you?

[Moderator 1]

No problem lcw--got the reference as well.

To clarify, per the board rules, there generally has to be some sort of reputable news source reporting upon the events or criminal charges filed regarding the situation being discussed in order to go into the specifics and identifiy individuals involved here.

Again, tread lightly or this thread will be closed.

Thanks,
Mod 1

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

I found out today that the hauler was given ANOTHER bad check that bounced. He was supposed to be paid in cash when the horses were delivered and of course that didn't happen.

Add one more to the small claims list - hauling 3 horses a few hundered miles, boarding at his own place for a few days providing hay and cleaning, fuel etc. Anything over $250 can go to small claims and purposely passing bad checks is a federal crime. He had to drop them in a bare corner lot so they were probably moved since then so they can't be found. They will be found and one most likely repossessed as technically it's stolen.

Some people are just sick and twisted. I feel so bad for all the people that have been taken in by this. It's WAY bigger than just me and I've gotten so many messages from people who have been scammed by the same person. I think it's time for the criminal system to be put to work. I hope those poor horses are ok and land safely.

I believe they still enforce the 3 strikes and you're out law here in CA.

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

The first court date is on Monday. :yes: I'm thinking of taking popcorn with me to watch. There is another one pending with a vet but they haven't posted the court date online yet.

Slowly but surely things are catching up.

[Bells]

Thanks for the follow-up!

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

She LOST this case and the judgement went to the plaintiff for the full amount plus court fees. :lol: She tried to play the "sick" card and the judge rejected that. Gotta love a good judge that can see through the BS!

[Empressive Award]

So what happens to the horses she owns? If she cant pay up will they be considered payment to whomever is owed in the case?

Hopefully someone else doesnt fall for her BS and wind up in the same situation!

[FLIPPED HER HALO]

So what happens to the horses she owns? If she cant pay up will they be considered payment to whomever is owed in the case?

Hopefully someone else doesnt fall for her BS and wind up in the same situation!

Yes, liens will be placed etc. Most of them aren't really worth anything much though as most are unsound other than a yearling.