Dressage saddle for a wide, broad backed horse?

[Dressurfan]

Hi ,
I am having trouble finding a saddle to fit my very wide warmblood. Her back looks like a draft horse or halflinger's back. She has low withers and her back is flat on either side of the spine instead of sloping away like most horses. Also most saddles slide forward or to the side on her. When I first got her I put on a medium tree Hennig because that was all I had and when we cantered it slid COMPLETELY to the side and I fell off. I am now convinced this is because the saddle was WAY too narrow for her.
I have heard that Duett saddles fit wide horses. Does anyone have any experience with these saddles? The website says they are made by a company with a different name in Germany. Does anyone know which company that is?
Also, does anyone have any experience with the thorowgood broadbacked dressage? I know its not fancy and pretty, but I have tried so many saddles with no sucess and I would rather have a cheap saddle but have my horse trot like a million bucks than a $6000 Hennig that I wouldn't even get through a walk-trot test in.
Any other ideas or recommendations for a dressage saddle for wide horses would be great. Thanks!

[spacehorse]

Google Duett. From what I gather, that is specifically the type of horse their saddles are designed for. And not TOO expensive, although more than a synthetic.

Missed the part where you asked about Duett! I don't have any first hand experience with them. I have seen their Foxhunter model, I liked it. Didn't sit in it though.

I am also curious about the Thorowgood.

[Ambrey]

My experience- I have the widest back horse I have ever seen.

Wintec with the XW gullet- not a good fit, needs to be wider at the top for his mutton wither and large shoulder.

Duett with hoop tree in 39cm tree- nice saddle, but didn't fit me quite right and the gullet was not quite wide enough all the way back- he is wide right back to his fat butt.

Finally, I got a Schleese used on e-bay and took it down to have it fitted by Jochen Schleese. Finally, a good fit for him! And as he fits up, I can have it re-adjusted! The gullet is very wide all the way back and the panels were swept up to accomodate his short back.

The duett WAS nice, though, and the Schleese, even used, was quite a bit more expensive. If that was my price range, I'd still go with that. Other options in the hoop tree (wider at the top) are the Lovatt and Ricketts ellipse, the Black Country Eloquence X, and the Albion can be special ordered.

Good luck!

eta: Go to the website for Trumbull Mountain and follow their directions to do a wither tracing. You can send it to them and they'll tell you what saddles might fit.

[blakesbunch]

My Dressage Trainer recommened a Duett saddle for my broad mare. I haven't got one yet but did check them out online.
I looked into the Synthetic saddles including the Thorowgoods and tried one out. I didn't like them myself, but that is me. I have heard others LOVE them. Plus the price is sure good. It is an personal choice. Find what works for you.
Dover saddlery has Wintec and Thorowgood dressage in stock (and in store), so you can check them out.


GB

[jesterjigger]

My mare is wide and I tried a Duett and a Rembrandt on her that were wide enough, but she needed a hoop tree. So I ended up with an Albion instead. www.equusnow.com has a some used dressage saddles with a good trial policy, you might want to look there to try some different brands.

[bird4416]

I have a Duett Encore and it fits my draft crosses quite well. It is a well made saddle and the customer service was great. Its definitely worth a look and test ride.

[camohn]

Tanker chick here does well in her County WB XW. Her momma (built the same) had a County Competitor XW.
Wintec: didn't fit right in the cantle
Passier I have here: fits my other horses here well up to what I call a "medium wide" (saddle is marked wide) which would be the stock horses and the beefy built TB but not tanker chick WBs (whom I call the sofas).

[ButterflyIris]

I did a lot of saddle shopping for my wide-backed PercheronX.

I ended up with an XW tree, Passier Relevant.

I also tried the Passier Grand Gilbert XW tree, which I also liked and seemed to fit.

[lwk]

I have a Duett Largo for my superwide draft cross and it works great for us. It also fits well on my young very wide warmblood.
The Duett Fidelio did not fit at all.
You will probably need to go up a seat size in the Largo or Fidelio - they run small.

[Luna]

I have a Duett Largo for my superwide draft cross and it works great for us. It also fits well on my young very wide warmblood.
The Duett Fidelio did not fit at all.
You will probably need to go up a seat size in the Largo or Fidelio - they run small.

I went from the Duett Fidelio to a Schleese and I will never go back. I found that saddle to be nicely made for the price, but the difference the Schleese has made in my horse's movement and my position is astonishing. Furthermore, I found the panels sat very very wide across her back (like, more onto her sides because it was so wide).

My caution to you is that if you go with a Duett, have the saddle fitter out ASAP to make sure that it isn't too wide.

[ironbessflint]

I have Haflingers....

My mom had a Duett Encore that fit the horses well, but didn't fit ME at all. I was constantly fighting to keep my leg back, and the twist was so wide it hurt my hips.

I did ride in Duett Rondo (jumping saddle) that I LOVED.

My mom has a Dominus that works okay, is comfortable for me, but isn't QUITE wide enough for the girls.

I ride in Custom Saddlery Royal Star that fits all of our Haflingers beautifully, and somehow is wide enough for them, but quite narrow in the twist which I need. I bought it used for $1200.

[neVar]

going by SHAPE here- not width- becuase one can have a very broad back- but not be 'wide' (or vice versa)

Bates innova
Schleese
Albion with the low head option...
duette's

most of the 'semi custom' brands have a wide horse option/panel set up etc... you may want to see saddles that use the term 'hoop' tree- (which is the albion's low head) but something wider across the pommel..

[lwk]

My Duett Largo has been checked by the County saddle fitter and she said it is a great fit for both my horses.
Now that is real saddle karma!!
I believe the Largo does have the "hoop tree". I tried an XW Albion with low head and it was too narrow. Albion rep told me that my horse needs the "hoop tree".

[Ambrey]

I believe the Largo does have the "hoop tree". I tried an XW Albion with low head and it was too narrow. Albion rep told me that my horse needs the "hoop tree".

The Largo does have the "hoop tree." I've gotten different information from different sources about the Fidelio, but the end result is that it is not as suitable for the broad backed horses as the Largo.

I am not sure if it is still the case, but I was told that Albion could be special ordered with a hoop tree- it was a rare order, so finding one used would be very difficult.

These are the other saddles I know of with a hoop tree:
http://www.trumbullmtn.com/Saddle_%20pages/Dressage/Blackcountry.htm

Black Country Eloquence X

http://www.landrsaddles.com/Saddles/Ellipse.htm

Lovatt and Rickett's Ellipse

And I've seen the photos NeVar has shown me of the Innova, and indeed it's a much different shape than the other Wintec/Bates saddles I've seen, even though it uses the same gullet plate. Go figure :)

[petesperson]

Not exactly a dressage rider here, but I have a Thorowgood dressage saddle (wide width) that fit my old horse (Paint tank) and current horse (QH cross tank) really well... and it's extremely comfy for me... It cost me about $100 used on ebay.

[Christa P]

Not a "true" dressage saddle I have a Thorowgood WB Wide Selecta that fits the WIDE with withers WB I am currently riding and I find it comfy and it puts me in the correct position.

BTW, I don't know if it is still made, but the Selecta came with interchangeable knee rolls. There is a straight dressage pair, a more forward pair with moderate knee rolls for all purpose, and a pair for jumping with minimal knee rolls. I generally use the all purpose pair.

Christa

[Bravestrom]

We have draft crosses and all of them ride in stubbens - 31 cm width - we use 18 and 19" seats on the saddles.


Never had any problems.

[rugbygirl]

Full draft, 32cm (wide tree) Stubben.

All those "hoop" and "Draft" saddles had NO wither clearance. Fine for mutton-withered horses, but just because a horse is wide doesn't mean it is flat. My girl also has a significant shoulder angle that some of the hoop-y saddles didn't accomodate.

Then again, my girl has such a curvy back and pronounced wither that you don't really even need a saddle...maybe not the best example.

[Roan]

Send a PM to TouchStoneAcres here on CoTH. She breeds Lipizzaners and sells Duetts.

I use an Ansur Classic on my Lipizzaner mare. Love it.

Eileen

[audgesmom]

my fatlinger is in a Warendorf monoflap wide....I had my saddler drop the panels, completely reflock in real wool, then custom fit to my beast. He has had many duetts, all 36 cm, but they did nothing for my seat....we did have good luck with an Anky wide for about a year....

[artisticgold]

I've been on an endless saddle search for my tank wide Arab/Percheron mare, and almost as wide Saddlebred. I tried the thoroughgood broadback, Wintec Wide, Wintec Isabell XW, County WB, Schleese Wave - custom fit to my ASB but popped up and down on his back like a trampoline, also a treeless saddle - YUCK!, and probably a few others....I ended up by chance buying a Michael Stokes Centaur from a friend for very little money, and it fits my mare like a dream. It is VERY wide in front, and has a wide channel all the way back, so it fits her wide flat back and gives her ample room for her spine. It is too big for me at 18", unfortunately, but I put a Heather Moffett seat saver on it, and it works well. I just bought another Michael Stokes for my boy, and it's not quite wide enough, but will be sending it to the maker to have it widened, and it should fit him like a custom saddle then. You can find them very reasonably priced, especially in the VA area. They are a well-kept secret, except for the locals....Total for both saddles? $550!!!! LOL

[MontanaDun]

I have had both a Stokes and a Black Country Eloquence on my big QH (17h and wiiiiiide).

They both fit him great and are nicely made saddles, but I recently sold the Stokes because the twist on the Black Country worked a little better for me. (I did get more than $500 for it though! LOL)

So would recommend both of those as good possibilities for a wide tracker.

Good luck! I feel your pain!

MD

[knz66]

Borne Saddlery

A gal in our barn just got a saddle from them for her table top fresian mare. Totally changed the mare's gaits. She was previously in a county WB as wide as it could go but it still pinched in the shouldlers.

Its a really nice saddle. Nice workmanship, great customer service also

[wookiee]

Second Borne (http://www.bornesaddlery.com/).

I have both a jumping (http://www.bornesaddlery.com/mall/moreS.asp?ProdID=830) and a dressage (http://www.bornesaddlery.com/mall/moreS.asp?ProdID=741) saddle for my full Percheron from them. INCREDIBLE service, excellent quality and fits perfect. I will never go back.

Everyone who rides in my saddles comments on their quality.

[HappyHoppingHaffy]

Love, love, love, love my Black Country Equinox monoflap. It is wide enough for my fatlinger (love that Audgesmom!) and has a narrow twist so I don't feel like I'm over a barrel. It's listed as an all purpose, but I found the tigh blocks to be too large to jump in this saddle.
Here's a link:
http://www.trumbullmtn.com/Saddle_%20pages/All%20Purpose/BCequinox_1.htm

[HoneyOnAHony]

After a lot of frustration, I finally found an Amerigo Vega to be the best fit for my haffie-shaped, built-like-a-tank, short-backed Bashkir Curly. And it fits ME in a way I could never imagine a non-custom saddle could!

[pintopiaffe]

Depends on so many things...

I actually really like the Thorowgood 'feel.' Rode in one for quite a few years. But the XXW Broadback Cob was nowhere NEAR wide enough for my little but wide-flat guys.

Finally got to try a Duett, and it fit them ok, but was awful for me. Literally hurt my seatbones. And I a) have plenty of padding :uhoh: and b) ride in a rock-hard-slick-as-glass Ancient Passier, so it wasn't from lack of cush.

Saddles I've tried:

Thorowgood Broadback Cob XXW: Way too narrow. Not even close.

Wintec Isabelle: wide enough at withers, not wide enough a hand's width behind withers.

Reactor Panel: FABULOUS. Until he outgrew the tree going from TL to 2nd. No one could tell me he wouldn't outgrow another tree as we progressed, tree is not adjustible, and saddle is just way too much $$$$ if he was going to outgrow another.

Treeless: Ansur--horse loved, rider not so much. Fhoenix/Flexion--horse loved, we progressed further in 2 years than we had in the previous 5. Then he gained about 200lbs in topline, and became just too wide for me to handle hip-wise. :cry: Barefoot London--no way, not enough support, no twist feeling.

(The Fhoenix was *definitely* by FAR the best riding experience for both of us, until he 'outgrew' it. )

Rembrandt OS: worked well, gussetted panels made his loins sore. Tree not adjustible

Duett: fit horse, not rider. Twist and seat I guess are just too wide.

Albion: Never found a non-custom that was wide enogh.

County: Ditto Albion

Thornhill--ProTrainer and Vienna II : Their XW was NOT wide enough. The newest models have a wider channel, which may make the difference, I'll be trying a Danube in the winter.

Wintec Wide: A very, very interesting saddle. Waist is raised up a bit so it is narrower than the twist. Stirrup bars WAY too forward for me though. And I'd have to get the panels worked on as the gussets would present the same issue as the Rembrandt did.

Michael Stokes Centaur with Baroque Tree & Flair: AWESOME. He outgrew the tree within 8 mos or so because he improved so much. I was able to adjust the flair panels for awhile, to accommodate the changes, but eventually he just bulked up too much. The saddle was a bit small for me or I would have had it adjusted. My knees/thighs tended to go up over the flaps. I would go with another in a heartbeat in the right size for ME as well as His Wideness.

Ended up with: Ancient Passier PT. Just slightly under 30 years old, #5 Tree. It is miraculously wide enough--even to use a sheepskin pad under (His Princeness & The Pea loffs sheepskin and goes noticeably better in it.) A reflock with real long, springy wool gives it cushy panels, which is His Princeness' preference. I have been searching for a 2nd one to fit to the EVEN WIDER :dead: youngsters for two years now, since finding the first by accident in a localish tack shop's consignment. I *may* have just scored one. I've bought two so far on Ebay and had to resell for various reasons--same model in Passier doens't necessarily mean same tree.

If I had the money, I would go with a new Passier. Probably a Corona with a short flat and shallow seat. (deep seat is 'standard' for US orders I'm told.) Or, ideally, one of the last few PT's available from very limited stock. Or a custom, remade from the SN of the one I've got. Note to self: Powerball & megabucks tickets... :lol:

Sorry... long, rambly post. But maybe some of my observations can help. It just seems to me that saddle mfgs are ignoring a HUGE class of customers. Most mid-to-affordable range saddles just come nowhere NEAR wide enough. I would LOVE an HDR. I love the panels, I love the flaps, I love the balance, and the price is exceptional, the quality really quite surprizing... but their wide is so NOT wide.

I always, always wonder how the H/J riders do it with most saddles not available even in W, not to mention XW or XXXW. Do they just put up with poor fit? Do they just not *have* stupidwides? Or does everyone get custom? I dunno.

[Horsepower]

Try getting a thinline pad for the saddle slippage. Although, I was sceptical about its backsaving qualities, it has been great for reducing saddle slippage on my fat flat backed pony. Others have mentioned the thinline girth as also helping saddle slippage.

I also had gotten a Michael Stokes used dressage saddle in a MW on ebay and my pony loved it.

[rabicon]

My guy is broad, maybe not as broad as yours but he does have a wide back and I have the Stubben Scandica in a W and it works great.

[patch work farm]

I just sent you a PM-you should be able to make your Hennig work...

[KarenRO]

Yes, that is my nickmane at the barn as I have been through many saddles trying to fit my two wide-backed mares, a 14.3H Morgan and a 16.1H Appaloosa. Saddles that almost fit were the Thornhill Vienna II and the Courbette Charles de Kunffy but then their toplines changed and both saddles tended to slip forward. The Morgan is now in an old Northstar (like an Albion but with very little padding) and the Appy is in a size 3 Albion Ultima. Both mares go well in these saddles. The saddles fit me well also.

Talk with Cordia Pearson at http://saddlefitter.com/ about Thornhills and Karen Porter, Presige Saddlery in PA about Albions. Good luck! KarenRO

[Whitfield Farm Hanoverians]

I tried a new, x-wide Steffen Peters Advantage saddle on my friends wide backed warmblood mare & it fit beautifully. This mare normally wears a Duett saddle. Couldn't get the Wintecs, Bates, Kieffers to fit her. Rider loves her Duett. I like the quality of the Advantage much better though.
Look at the saddles up close at www.mysaddle.com
Shows all the custom options of these saddles. Mine is soft like a pillow. The horses love it.